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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 12:28:18 GMT 1
There is definitely a need for some clear guidance so both the police and the general public are singing from the same song sheet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 12:52:56 GMT 1
The police haven’t been told what powers they have. Spoke to a copper friend of mine who’s based in Hampshire. He has no idea what powers he has. Thus the criticism some police are facing. As with any walks in life you get jobsworths who will take it upon themselves to make things awkward/be on an ego trip.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 31, 2020 12:53:07 GMT 1
www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-corona-cops-need-to-wind-their-necks-in/Having spent the past week demanding Britain be turned into a full-on police state in response to the coronavirus crisis, the British media seem to be slowly realising what the police they are so keen to empower are actually like. Since new powers to enforce the lockdown were brought in last Thursday, there has been a steady stream of stories about the cops taking to the situation with an all too predictable glee. www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-sickness-of-snitching/Police forces report a ‘surge’ in calls from people squealing on their neighbours for going for a second run or taking their dog out rather too often. It’s being called ‘quarantine shaming’.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 31, 2020 13:09:04 GMT 1
www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-corona-cops-need-to-wind-their-necks-in/Having spent the past week demanding Britain be turned into a full-on police state in response to the coronavirus crisis, the British media seem to be slowly realising what the police they are so keen to empower are actually like. Since new powers to enforce the lockdown were brought in last Thursday, there has been a steady stream of stories about the cops taking to the situation with an all too predictable glee. www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-sickness-of-snitching/Police forces report a ‘surge’ in calls from people squealing on their neighbours for going for a second run or taking their dog out rather too often. It’s being called ‘quarantine shaming’. sounds more like what East Germans did with the Stasi
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2020 13:11:35 GMT 1
www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-corona-cops-need-to-wind-their-necks-in/Having spent the past week demanding Britain be turned into a full-on police state in response to the coronavirus crisis, the British media seem to be slowly realising what the police they are so keen to empower are actually like. Since new powers to enforce the lockdown were brought in last Thursday, there has been a steady stream of stories about the cops taking to the situation with an all too predictable glee. www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-sickness-of-snitching/Police forces report a ‘surge’ in calls from people squealing on their neighbours for going for a second run or taking their dog out rather too often. It’s being called ‘quarantine shaming’. It's higher up than on the ground though. Some Chief Constables have just gone overboard, replace them or amalgamate their forces, we need a common procedure.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 31, 2020 13:33:37 GMT 1
i recalled watching some programs about the war and i was suprised to hear how few memers of the gestapo were opearting. i found this article www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/careless-whispers-how-the-german-public-used-and-abused-the-gestapo-1.2369837" In reality, the Gestapo was a very small organisation. In 1933, it had 1,000 employees and even at its peak in 1944, its active officers within Germany numbered 16,000, policing a population of 66 million." "In Düsselfdorf, with a population of 500,000, there were 126 Gestapo officers in 1937. Essen had 650,000 inhabitants and just 43. The same pattern was repeated in all the other major German cities. Most rural towns had no Gestapo presence at all. The Gestapo was underfunded, under-resourced and over stretched." "It’s been estimated that only 15 per cent of Gestapo cases started because of surveillance operations. A far greater number began following a tip-off from a member of the public. Every allegation, no matter how trivial, was investigated with meticulous and time-consuming thoroughness. It’s been estimated that about 40 per cent of these denunciations were personally motivated" "The Gestapo came to realise investigating false allegations was wasting a great deal of its time. As a letter, dated August 1st, 1943, from the Ministry of Justice in Berlin put it: ‘The denouncer is the biggest scoundrel in the whole country." so if the police wont to learn form history ,this is tool that wastes huge amount of time, often is motivated by personal dislikes and is hugely inefficient .that does not mean that people should have large gatherings but the police should remeber they police by consent so comon sense should prevail but as we have seen there is alway a jobs worth who glorifies in the sudden powere and will use every opportunity to wield it.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 31, 2020 13:49:13 GMT 1
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 31, 2020 13:50:55 GMT 1
Why are people getting in such a flap over Police trying to control people breaking the rules and congregating at beauty spots? So what if they send a drone up?
Im all for human rights but people just don’t listen and only think of themselves.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2020 14:11:35 GMT 1
The limit on contactless cards to be raised to £45 from Wednesday. Should be ok, the ancient crime of pick-pocketing is now dead as anyone being approached closer than two metres would scream the place down.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 31, 2020 14:53:13 GMT 1
Why are people getting in such a flap over Police trying to control people breaking the rules and congregating at beauty spots? So what if they send a drone up? Im all for human rights but people just don’t listen and only think of themselves. I say give the police the power to arrest 2 or more people that they can physically touch at the same time would be quite fun I think ;-)
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2020 15:32:41 GMT 1
Why are people getting in such a flap over Police trying to control people breaking the rules and congregating at beauty spots? So what if they send a drone up? Im all for human rights but people just don’t listen and only think of themselves. I say give the police the power to arrest 2 or more people that they can physically touch at the same time would be quite fun I think ;-) Isn't that tag? Lockup not getting to you too is it? Those back to school days 'eh.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 31, 2020 16:14:58 GMT 1
Are we going to see balaclavad armed response teams abseiling down the sides of buildings, bursting through windows and snatching chocolate bunnies from the trembling hands of terrified children and OAPs? Step away from the Cadbury’s Creme Egg! Most people by now will be familiar with the Derbyshire Chief Constable’s demented decision to fly drones over the Peak District to intimidate and shame perfectly innocent dog walkers and ramblers. His force followed up this insanity by tipping dye into a ‘Blue Lagoon’ at Buxton to discourage people from taking selfies. Wouldn’t you have just loved to have been at the committee meeting which came up with that madness? ‘Right, so we’ve sent up the drones, established roadblocks everywhere, seized all the Easter Eggs, and we’re going to Taser anyone out jogging or taking part in non-essential activity, which pretty much covers anything we say it is. Any other business?’ ‘Why don’t we tip indelible black dye into the Blue Lagoon at Buxton, chief? Then if they fall in while they’re taking a selfie, we’ll have no trouble tracing them and nicking them.’ Richard Littlejohn. www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8169709/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-police-step-away-Creme-Egg.html
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Post by venceremos on Mar 31, 2020 16:30:07 GMT 1
Considering the situation we are in then for a period of time policing is not by consent as a hard line is required to save lives. It’s actually time to keep opinions to yourself and do what has been asked by the government, because if you don’t you could be responsible for more people dying . It’s as simple as that An emphatic no to this. You can follow the law and you can follow the guidance (which is not the same thing and has no legal force, although too many people are confusing the two) but you can - and should - question the government's handling of the situation if you think differently. Blindly obeying without question risks creating precedents that can be hard to reverse. We're still citizens and we're not in the military. Policing is absolutely by consent. Here in the countryside I could go out as often as I like and not be stopped. Police are rarely seen here at any time and there simply aren't the numbers for it to be any different. But I consent to the restrictions and self-police and that's exactly what the vast majority of people seem to be doing. We don't need over-zealous jobsworths without an ounce of common sense or compassion who are only too pleased to feel themselves powerful and able to control others. History tells us where that can lead. And we certainly don't need to be a population watched and monitored from drones overhead, or publicly shamed by the police when we've done nothing to breach the new legislation (as with Stephen Kinnock).
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 31, 2020 16:32:11 GMT 1
Perhaps it's time to let another force take over Derbyshire? I think I saw that during this the Derbyshire Chief Constable has been sitting behind a terminal self isolating?
To get the public back on side with the Derbyshire police force, relieve him of his duties and run in parallel with another force, don't know why they need so many Chief Constable’s anyway?
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Post by venceremos on Mar 31, 2020 16:32:27 GMT 1
Most people by now will be familiar with the Derbyshire Chief Constable’s demented decision to fly drones over the Peak District to intimidate and shame perfectly innocent dog walkers and ramblers. His force followed up this insanity by tipping dye into a ‘Blue Lagoon’ at Buxton to discourage people from taking selfies. There must be environmental protection laws covering this and, if so, Derbyshire Police should be prosecuted.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 31, 2020 17:04:19 GMT 1
the problem is we have some jobswerths been stupid , we also have large numbers of people ignoring the guidance in the lockdown, the goverment asked nicely and huge numbers ignored them, so they had to do somthing policing with common sense and a lighht touch will not alenate most people behaving like prats will.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Mar 31, 2020 17:10:52 GMT 1
the problem is we have some jobswerths been stupid , we also have large numbers of people ignoring the guidance in the lockdown, the goverment asked nicely and huge numbers ignored them, so they had to do somthing policing with common sense and a lighht touch will not alenate most people behaving like prats will. I think 'large numbers' is over stretching things. Some, yes but not large numbers. In our area anyway.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 31, 2020 17:29:51 GMT 1
the problem is we have some jobswerths been stupid , we also have large numbers of people ignoring the guidance in the lockdown, the goverment asked nicely and huge numbers ignored them, so they had to do somthing policing with common sense and a lighht touch will not alenate most people behaving like prats will. I think 'large numbers' is over stretching things. Some, yes but not large numbers. In our area anyway. in my area it is very quiet i go for my permited walk near my house and i just see a handfull of dog walkers,however my observation of large numbers came from this article in the star were as of yesterday clearly the message is not been heard. www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/03/30/coronavirus-lockdown-shropshire-countryside-is-no-playground-say-authorities/"The Police have been forced to take action at a number of sites across the county, including parks, plays areas and major beauty spots." "people travelling to exercise on Haughmond Hill, a closure of a play area in Minsterley, blocking mountain bikers from going up the Ercall, " "Following numerous complaints to police and astounding scenes of up to 50 vehicles present yesterday, the car parks at the Wrekin have now been closed to deter large numbers of people " "in Shrewsbury police expressed their growing frustration at the number of people out and about, reminding people to cut out non-essential journeys."
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Post by venceremos on Mar 31, 2020 17:55:22 GMT 1
I think 'large numbers' is over stretching things. Some, yes but not large numbers. In our area anyway. in my area it is very quiet i go for my permited walk near my house and i just see a handfull of dog walkers,however my observation of large numbers came from this article in the star were as of yesterday clearly the message is not been heard. www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/03/30/coronavirus-lockdown-shropshire-countryside-is-no-playground-say-authorities/"The Police have been forced to take action at a number of sites across the county, including parks, plays areas and major beauty spots." "people travelling to exercise on Haughmond Hill, a closure of a play area in Minsterley, blocking mountain bikers from going up the Ercall, " "Following numerous complaints to police and astounding scenes of up to 50 vehicles present yesterday, the car parks at the Wrekin have now been closed to deter large numbers of people " "in Shrewsbury police expressed their growing frustration at the number of people out and about, reminding people to cut out non-essential journeys." What numbers would they not be frustrated with, I wonder? What I see of the A49 north of Shrewsbury it's eerily quiet. But of course there'll be people "out and about". A lot of people are still having to work and can't do so from home, people still have to buy food, go to medical appointments and collect medicines, a lot of people are voluntarily "out and about" helping others, a lot of people have vulnerable family members they need to check on and a lot of people are getting out to take exercise. It's not for the police to say there are too many people outdoors if those people are complying with the law. If they want to make a case then they should tell us how many people they've found breaking the law. By that I don't mean doing things that some police officers have decided for themselves they shouldn't be doing - like buying Easter eggs with their shopping - I mean actually being in breach of the legislation. We need to see some tangible evidence of misbehaviour, not unhelpfully vague protestations of frustration. As for those examples cited, the play area should have been closed by the local authority in accordance with the law but I see nothing intrinsically wrong with people taking exercise on Haughmond Hill or mountain biking, as long as they're following the social distancing guide and the no more than 2 people from different households rule. If you live in an urban area, it seems to me preferable and lower risk to take exercise in an open, rural area if there's one within reasonable distance.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 31, 2020 18:00:47 GMT 1
in my area it is very quiet i go for my permited walk near my house and i just see a handfull of dog walkers,however my observation of large numbers came from this article in the star were as of yesterday clearly the message is not been heard. www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/03/30/coronavirus-lockdown-shropshire-countryside-is-no-playground-say-authorities/"The Police have been forced to take action at a number of sites across the county, including parks, plays areas and major beauty spots." "people travelling to exercise on Haughmond Hill, a closure of a play area in Minsterley, blocking mountain bikers from going up the Ercall, " "Following numerous complaints to police and astounding scenes of up to 50 vehicles present yesterday, the car parks at the Wrekin have now been closed to deter large numbers of people " "in Shrewsbury police expressed their growing frustration at the number of people out and about, reminding people to cut out non-essential journeys." What numbers would they not be frustrated with, I wonder? What I see of the A49 north of Shrewsbury it's eerily quiet. But of course there'll be people "out and about". A lot of people are still having to work and can't do so from home, people still have to buy food, go to medical appointments and collect medicines, a lot of people are voluntarily "out and about" helping others, a lot of people have vulnerable family members they need to check on and a lot of people are getting out to take exercise. It's not for the police to say there are too many people outdoors if those people are complying with the law. If they want to make a case then they should tell us how many people they've found breaking the law. By that I don't mean doing things that some police officers have decided for themselves they shouldn't be doing - like buying Easter eggs with their shopping - I mean actually being in breach of the legislation. We need to see some tangible evidence of misbehaviour, not unhelpfully vague protestations of frustration. As for those examples cited, the play area should have been closed by the local authority in accordance with the law but I see nothing intrinsically wrong with people taking exercise on Haughmond Hill or mountain biking, as long as they're following the social distancing guide and the no more than 2 people from different households rule. If you live in an urban area, it seems to me preferable and lower risk to take exercise in an open, rural area if there's one within reasonable distance. all reasonable points and article does not give the numbers beyond the numbers of cars.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Mar 31, 2020 18:15:46 GMT 1
As for those examples cited, the play area should have been closed by the local authority in accordance with the law but I see nothing intrinsically wrong with people taking exercise on Haughmond Hill or mountain biking, as long as they're following the social distancing guide and the no more than 2 people from different households rule. If you live in an urban area, it seems to me preferable and lower risk to take exercise in an open, rural area if there's one within reasonable distance.
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This is absolutely right. Im sure for every 1 group who are not following guidelines there are 20, 30 or 40 people who are doing everything they should by being solo or very small family groups.
I do feel for the police who have been put into a sometimes awkward no win situation here but equally they need to show they are being sensible in situation. Clearly in some situations some if them (like Derbyshire) are not.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Apr 1, 2020 1:02:43 GMT 1
www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-corona-cops-need-to-wind-their-necks-in/Having spent the past week demanding Britain be turned into a full-on police state in response to the coronavirus crisis, the British media seem to be slowly realising what the police they are so keen to empower are actually like. Since new powers to enforce the lockdown were brought in last Thursday, there has been a steady stream of stories about the cops taking to the situation with an all too predictable glee. www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/30/the-sickness-of-snitching/Police forces report a ‘surge’ in calls from people squealing on their neighbours for going for a second run or taking their dog out rather too often. It’s being called ‘quarantine shaming’. Jeez, Northwestman link-quoting the Koch-funded Brendan O'Neil edited Spiked online magazine. Wasn't expecting that. Personally I wouldn't wipe my virtual arse with it.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 1, 2020 10:46:57 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8173653/Police-not-treat-British-people-fools-former-Home-Secretary-DAVID-BLUNKETT-says.htmlOver 45 years ago, as a young councillor and college lecturer, I was surprised to find a police superintendent on my doorstep. I was even more surprised, with my guide dog Ruby by my side, when the officer accused me of driving a Mini through a Sheffield suburb. When I gently pulled his leg about the absurdity of this accusation, he declared that he didn't find it very funny. It certainly wasn't for me either. So I pointed out to him what day it was . . . April 1st. 'What is the significance of that?' he retorted. It transpired that one of my students had filed a false report for a joke that nearly went very badly wrong. A single incident like this is amusing. When overzealous investigations start happening right across the country, it is cause for alarm. In recent days, I have read with growing concern of officious, heavy-handed policing that, petty as it is, threatens to have a profound effect on this country's long-standing liberties. This must never become a nation where people risk arrest for walking their dogs, visiting beauty spots or making impulse buys. Yet within a few days of the lockdown introduced by the Government last week, and the emergency powers that were granted to police, abuses were being reported by TV and newspapers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 13:58:39 GMT 1
I am very sympathetic with the Government and the Police on this issue, unfortunately society does not always display common sense, and in a way the military mantra of 1 balls up and you all suffer, which is not really helpful.
My pastime of Golf has suffered, I cannot go and play 18 holes on my own, or indeed with another person, despite being a sport which can socially distance, and by quite a way in some instances with my level of play, it is perfectly reasonable to be able to play a round of golf and maintain social distance, you do not need to remove the flagstick or indeed actually HOLE the ball, as the cups have been turned upside down, this gives me exercise, and brain stimulation, however if i put on a Lycra suit and jump on a butchers bike, and travel all around Shropshire, this is perfectly acceptable. You can view both acceptable or unacceptable in equal measures.
So now they are looking for ways to limit this by saying X KM from your home maximum, which equally causes issues, if you live in Ullapool for instance, you are probably 2 or 3 KM from a neighbor anyway, but in Birmingham, Manchester or London you are likely to live within a few hundred thousand people with in that radius. You cannot expect to get a level playing field when there are so many variables in the first instance.
Anyway, i have kept my golf to chipping in the Garden, which is helping and keeping the local Glazier in work.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 18:11:19 GMT 1
Common sense and policing by consent restored. Some can put the Jack Boots back in the cupboard! Police given new guidance on enforcing coronavirus lockdown after backlash Forces have been told people should not be punished for travelling a ‘reasonable distance’ from home to exercise, following criticism of heavy-handed tactics used to enforce the Covid-19 lockdown. The new guidance, issued by the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) and the College of Policing on Tuesday night, also states road checks on every vehicle are “disproportionate”. “Use your judgement and common sense; for example, people will want to exercise locally and may need to travel to do so, we don’t want the public sanctioned for travelling a reasonable distance to exercise. www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2020/04/01/police-given-new-guidance-on-enforcing-coronavirus-lockdown-after-backlash/
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Post by Worthingshrew on Apr 1, 2020 19:27:39 GMT 1
What did the police do BEFORE the Coronavirus outbreak? If quite a percentage are off with the virus, yet they still have time to watch walkers, what police work is not getting down now?
I walked past two police or community officers yesterday, and smiled and gave them a cheerful “hello” to be met with a blank stare.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 1, 2020 20:30:21 GMT 1
What did the police do BEFORE the Coronavirus outbreak? If quite a percentage are off with the virus, yet they still have time to watch walkers, what police work is not getting down now? I walked past two police or community officers yesterday, and smiled and gave them a cheerful “hello” to be met with a blank stare. Don't know what they did before, but now available to issue sixty quid fines, £30 if paid quickly, for being outside 'unnecessarily'. Just a week or two ago they hadn't got the manpower to investigate when you were burgled.
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Post by wakemanender on Apr 1, 2020 21:24:42 GMT 1
It was a question I was asking about the government when Brexit was going on. What were they doing before.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 2, 2020 12:55:09 GMT 1
It was a question I was asking about the government when Brexit was going on. What were they doing before. Before Brexit? Now you're are going back in time! Since the 2nd World War, I think it reads a bit like this: Helping Europe get back on it's feet. Not joining in when Europe formed a common market. Suez. Worrying about nuclear war. Making Britain moribund with a moribund government Closing down most of the railway network. Agreeing New Towns - where the car would be king, no need for public transport. Backing Britain and spending. Catching up with the times and making homosexuality legal and bringing in the breath test and seatbelts. White hot technology. Cancelling the white hot technology. Deciding we would like to be in the European Common Market after all. Fighting strikers. Selling the family silver by privatising everything. Fighting the miners. Ensuring major industries suffered and relying on "service" industries. Making sure the yuppies made plenty of money. Selling off all the council houses. Allowing the Falklands to be invaded and somehow making it look like winning it back was a great Government victory. Spending a lot on social services and the NHS. Buggering it all up with America in Middle East Wars. Spending it all. Saving it all. Undercurrent of Brexit and fighting for a referendum. Realising we had sold off all the council houses. Ensuring the poor and low paid valuable workers were as poor as possible (Austerity) And then Brexit. Probably add making up new, mostly stupid, laws and persecuting the motorist all the way through. Apologies if anything missed.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 2, 2020 13:40:41 GMT 1
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