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Post by staffordshrew on May 1, 2020 21:31:54 GMT 1
Exactly the right response from the police imo. Check for no group gatherings and let everybody adhering to the social distancing rules to get on with whatever they can still do. Its all about common sence on both parts. I agree with you. I knew I was complying with the guidance, but still slightly apprehensive when a police car follows you, even though it was a coincidence. Even the police feel apprehensive with the police behind them according to Alfie Moore half way through this at 16.00: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000h93f
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Post by northwestman on May 4, 2020 12:11:46 GMT 1
Policing the Coronavirus lockdown is an impossible task. I mean that literally.
We don’t live in an oppressive state where police have vast powers of surveillance and coercion. That means it is practically impossible to force 66 million people not to leave their homes for non-essential reasons.
The police’s task has been made harder because their enforcement powers are vague. We are prohibited from leaving our homes unless we have a “reasonable excuse”.
The law lists 13 such excuses, which include obtaining “basic necessities”, “taking exercise” and others.
But the list is non-exhaustive which means other excuses can be used as long as they are “reasonable”.
A second difficulty is the law is not consistent with government guidance. For example, the guidance says we can only go for “one form of exercise” per day, but the law doesn’t set a limit. Except, strangely, in Wales.
The guidance says we should stay at least two metres apart in public, but the law doesn’t mention this. It does prohibit a “gathering” of more than two people.
It is therefore no surprise that some police appear confused.
Cambridgeshire Police tweeted their approval that “non essential aisles” in supermarkets were empty, even though there is no prohibition on supermarkets stocking particular items.
The Northamptonshire Chief Constable warned that if people “do not heed [police] warnings” then they would start to “marshal supermarkets and check the items in baskets and trolleys to see whether it is a legitimate and necessary item”.
There is no law against buying non-essential items and the police have no power under coronavirus laws to examine shopping trolleys.
It is possible that these public statements are outliers.
Both were swiftly retracted, with Cambridgeshire blaming an “over exuberant officer”.
But there have been a number of similar reports which suggests that such over-exuberance may be common. There has already been one wrongful conviction. There will be more. We are in the midst of a horrific public health crisis.
Close to a thousand people are dying each day. Now is the time to be constructive, not to lay blame.
In this spirit, I have three proposals.
First, given the impossibility of policing the entire population, the police should think carefully about where to focus resources. They have public health, not public order, powers. So why not work with public health experts to decide where to focus?
If the key risk is public gatherings where people are not staying two metres apart, that could be the target.
I doubt it will be shopping trolleys. The police must also focus only on the powers they have.
These are contained in a simple set of regulations which have been helpfully supplemented by national guidance, which says to “police by consent” and to “encourage voluntary compliance”.
Each officer must take responsibility for understanding their powers and ensuring they act proportionately.
Finally, the police should not encourage people to report each other for “breaches of the guidelines”.
During this crisis we need to retain social ties and trust. Encouraging people to inform on their neighbours will do the opposite.
If police must have online reporting forms, then these are an opportunity to educate the public on what the law says and discourage reporting of petty breaches.
Police interventions during the pandemic must be targeted at preventing the spread of Covid-19, be strictly limited what is illegal and remain proportionate, otherwise they will waste their own valuable time and risk being sued.
Most importantly, they will erode public trust - the most important resource of all.
Adam Wagner is a human rights barrister at Doughty Street Chambers.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 4, 2020 12:44:11 GMT 1
I think that by and large the police are doing a very good job with guidelines that were vague to start off with, have already alterred a little in the last few weeks and will continue to change as lockdown starts to ease in the coming weeks.
Of course there will always be the odd occasion where they get it wrong and boy will the British media jump upon and make the most of every opportunity they get to discredit them.
This situation we find ourselves in is all about being sensible on both the public and the polices part. I think that 95% of the time everyone is being sensible. But you will find that the scummy media wont make any reference to that part of it.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 4, 2020 12:56:34 GMT 1
Being sensible should really have meant a consistent approach and a great deal of reluctance to fine or prosecute so that only those cases that would stand scrutiny from any reasonable person later were actioned. One or two police chiefs got off on this and up the opportunity of "over policing", they should be dealt with later.
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Post by Pilch on May 4, 2020 14:39:08 GMT 1
I just went surfing with my mate in his company car, 2 of us in the front, surfboards in the back, police just nodded to us when we past them, had no problems at all
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2020 9:06:33 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 10, 2020 11:32:32 GMT 1
Cheshire East council have opened the tips, but only drivers whose car registration has an even number as the last digit will be able to use the tips on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday of the first week. Wonder if something like this could limit our all travelling to the same place as soon as it re-opens in the future?
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 10, 2020 11:56:00 GMT 1
Cheshire East council have opened the tips, but only drivers whose car registration has an even number as the last digit will be able to use the tips on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday of the first week. Wonder if something like this could limit our all travelling to the same place as soon as it re-opens in the future? That's good for me. I've got one that's an even and the wife's car is an odd number. Sorted. 😁
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Post by Valerioch on May 10, 2020 12:28:54 GMT 1
Police have been blamed for whatever and however they have behaved the last 2 months. Totally unfairly in my opinion.
Personally I think the government should’ve gone a lot harder. Everyone knows the rules. Europe are fining £1,000 or more for offenders and have had the army out. £30 fines over here are pathetic. No wonder Covidiots are ruining it for everyone else. They know they can get away with it. Ignorant barstewards. How ****ing hard is it to stay home?
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Post by davycrockett on May 10, 2020 12:39:21 GMT 1
Police have been blamed for whatever and however they have behaved the last 2 months. Totally unfairly in my opinion. Personally I think the government should’ve gone a lot harder. Everyone knows the rules. Europe are fining £1,000 or more for offenders and have had the army out. £30 fines over here are pathetic. No wonder Covidiots are ruining it for everyone else. They know they can get away with it. Ignorant barstewards. How ****ing hard is it to stay home? I’d agree. Spain and Italy have both relaxed their lockdown but only bought it inline with how ours has been from day 1..... we got off lightly being able to go out and exercise and go shopping anywhere within reason with families ..... but has this been at the expense of many lives?
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