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GE 2019
Dec 22, 2019 13:25:24 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Dec 22, 2019 13:25:24 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/22/labour-has-no-hope-of-rebuilding-unless-it-breaks-cold-grip-of-the-hard-left"For some Labour people, there is one consolation to be found amidst the smoking ruin of the party’s devastating election defeat. Such a cataclysm surely has to mean the termination of the party’s fatal experiment with Corbynism. Or does it? The Corbynites don’t think so. They show scant contrition for what they have inflicted on Labour and the many millions of people who depend on the party to protect and champion them. Nor are they displaying any willingness to relinquish their control. Quite the reverse. Jeremy Corbyn is squatting on as leader while John McDonnell tries to fix the succession for his protege, Rebecca Long Bailey. The senior apparatchiks of the Corbynite court continue to draw their salaries even as the party plans to sack blameless junior Labour staffers and its defeated MPs roar with rage. If Labour is to have any possibility of becoming a competitor for power at some point in the future, the party will first have to be prised from the cold grip of the hard leftists who have controlled its commanding heights for nearly five years". "Heaping all the culpability on one man will ultimately suit the continuity Corbynites seeking to install one of their own as the next leader. They will say there was nothing wrong with Corbynism except Corbyn. Brilliant experiment – shame about JC. We only have to get ourselves a Corbynite leader “without Jeremy’s unfortunate baggage” and we are all set to win in 2024. This will be their version of the Marxist’s favourite excuse for communism’s multiple failures. There’s nothing wrong with Corbynism; it just hasn’t been tried properly". "The election result was a comprehensive rejection not just of Jeremy Corbyn, but the ideology and culture to which he gave his name. Only if Labour confronts and grasps this truth will it have any hope of rebuilding itself as a serious contender for power".
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 23, 2019 0:30:48 GMT 1
It's going to be five long years until another election, Boris might get rid of fixed term parliaments, but I think he'll hang on in there as long as he can. The next Labour leader needs to be someone who can grow into the job and be in their prime when the next election comes along.
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GE 2019
Dec 23, 2019 14:29:53 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 23, 2019 14:29:53 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 14:48:17 GMT 1
It's going to be five long years until another election, Boris might get rid of fixed term parliaments, but I think he'll hang on in there as long as he can. The next Labour leader needs to be someone who can grow into the job and be in their prime when the next election comes along. I can imagine we will have at least 2 Conservative terms of government. The new Labour leader will have plenty of time to learn whilst in opposition.
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GE 2019
Dec 23, 2019 21:08:04 GMT 1
Post by servernaside on Dec 23, 2019 21:08:04 GMT 1
All Conservatives will be hoping that Labour appoint another hard-left, out of touch leader in the mould of Comrade Jezza.
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GE 2019
Dec 23, 2019 21:31:43 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 21:31:43 GMT 1
All Conservatives will be hoping that Labour appoint another hard-left, out of touch leader in the mould of Comrade Jezza. I suggest you look up the meaning of Social Democracy rather than believe the "hard right", so to speak, propaganda of the Tories and their press mouthpieces
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GE 2019
Dec 23, 2019 21:38:27 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 23, 2019 21:38:27 GMT 1
It's going to be five long years until another election, Boris might get rid of fixed term parliaments, but I think he'll hang on in there as long as he can. The next Labour leader needs to be someone who can grow into the job and be in their prime when the next election comes along. I can imagine we will have at least 2 Conservative terms of government. The new Labour leader will have plenty of time to learn whilst in opposition. Cameron was supposed to have a decade or more after the 2015 win too …..
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GE 2019
Dec 23, 2019 23:16:10 GMT 1
via mobile
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 23, 2019 23:16:10 GMT 1
I can imagine we will have at least 2 Conservative terms of government. The new Labour leader will have plenty of time to learn whilst in opposition. Cameron was supposed to have a decade or more after the 2015 win too ….. Yes, in 2015 Cameron and Osborne looked just as unassailable as Johnson does now. A week remains a long time in politics.
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GE 2019
Dec 24, 2019 11:15:01 GMT 1
Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 24, 2019 11:15:01 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/22/labour-has-no-hope-of-rebuilding-unless-it-breaks-cold-grip-of-the-hard-left"For some Labour people, there is one consolation to be found amidst the smoking ruin of the party’s devastating election defeat. Such a cataclysm surely has to mean the termination of the party’s fatal experiment with Corbynism. Or does it? The Corbynites don’t think so. They show scant contrition for what they have inflicted on Labour and the many millions of people who depend on the party to protect and champion them. Nor are they displaying any willingness to relinquish their control. Quite the reverse. Jeremy Corbyn is squatting on as leader while John McDonnell tries to fix the succession for his protege, Rebecca Long Bailey. The senior apparatchiks of the Corbynite court continue to draw their salaries even as the party plans to sack blameless junior Labour staffers and its defeated MPs roar with rage. If Labour is to have any possibility of becoming a competitor for power at some point in the future, the party will first have to be prised from the cold grip of the hard leftists who have controlled its commanding heights for nearly five years". "Heaping all the culpability on one man will ultimately suit the continuity Corbynites seeking to install one of their own as the next leader. They will say there was nothing wrong with Corbynism except Corbyn. Brilliant experiment – shame about JC. We only have to get ourselves a Corbynite leader “without Jeremy’s unfortunate baggage” and we are all set to win in 2024. This will be their version of the Marxist’s favourite excuse for communism’s multiple failures. There’s nothing wrong with Corbynism; it just hasn’t been tried properly". "The election result was a comprehensive rejection not just of Jeremy Corbyn, but the ideology and culture to which he gave his name. Only if Labour confronts and grasps this truth will it have any hope of rebuilding itself as a serious contender for power". www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/strange-death-labour-scotlandan intresting article whilst due to many causes, one theme appears to be of the scottish labour party alienated its core voters. are there any lesson labour can learn from this my concerns it that the Labour party do not appear to have learnt from this election
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Post by servernaside on Dec 26, 2019 12:05:20 GMT 1
All Conservatives will be hoping that Labour appoint another hard-left, out of touch leader in the mould of Comrade Jezza. I suggest you look up the meaning of Social Democracy rather than believe the "hard right", so to speak, propaganda of the Tories and their press mouthpieces I don't ned any advice from you, thank you very much. See my earlier statement.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 26, 2019 12:11:54 GMT 1
It's going to be five long years until another election, Boris might get rid of fixed term parliaments, but I think he'll hang on in there as long as he can. The next Labour leader needs to be someone who can grow into the job and be in their prime when the next election comes along. I can imagine we will have at least 2 Conservative terms of government. The new Labour leader will have plenty of time to learn whilst in opposition. The key point is that they must learn. Takes two to have a democracy.
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GE 2019
Dec 26, 2019 12:14:10 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 12:14:10 GMT 1
I suggest you look up the meaning of Social Democracy rather than believe the "hard right", so to speak, propaganda of the Tories and their press mouthpieces I don't ned any advice from you, thank you very much. See my earlier statement. Don't call me ned.
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GE 2019
Dec 26, 2019 13:21:08 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2019 13:21:08 GMT 1
How I ❤️ it . Doesn’t take long for the Festive Season to evaporate and the Ballock Kicking Season to commence.,
Wonder what the New Year will bring . If someone says “ peace and goodwill to all “ I think 🤔 I might just p**s me self laughing.
Cheers all , mines a double .
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Post by martinshrew on Dec 27, 2019 11:06:48 GMT 1
I can imagine we will have at least 2 Conservative terms of government. The new Labour leader will have plenty of time to learn whilst in opposition. The key point is that they must learn. Takes two to have a democracy. Absolutely. The conservatives need to be kept in check on their promises, Labour needs to carefully select a credible leader and reform their policy/approach that's been rejected several times over.
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Post by neilsalop on Dec 27, 2019 16:54:06 GMT 1
Unless Labour elect a Blair type leader that courts them the press will twist everything to keep the public supporting the Tories.
On some forums I am seeing Stephen Kinnock being touted for leader FFS. On others Rebecca Long-Bailey who is IMO too an easy a target for the press, due to her closeness to Corbyn. My preference would be for Angela Rayner and Kier Starmer as leader and deputy, either way round, as I believe that they would represent the moderate ends of the spectrum and help to unite both sides of the party. I know that the left would disagree with Starmer and right with Rayner, but together they could be a uniting force.
Unlike most on here I do get to have a say, being a member of the Labour Party. I don't however get a vote on who will be on the ballot, so potentially I could miss out on both of my first choices, in which case I will use the exact same criteria, one nearer the centre and one from nearer to the left, but neither from the extremes of the party, as this will lead to further rifts, which is just what we don't need.
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Post by darkshrew on Dec 27, 2019 20:06:42 GMT 1
Not sure that you’ll get much of a vote as the candidates have to get through the MPs first and the Momentum chaps seem to be pulling all the strings. I’d go for Cooper but she has no chance with the radical left - far too Blairite.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 20:17:54 GMT 1
Not sure that you’ll get much of a vote as the candidates have to get through the MPs first and the Momentum chaps seem to be pulling all the strings. I’d go for Cooper but she has no chance with the radical left - far too Blairite. As long as momentum are involved in selection process the longer it will be that they are unelectable... Long live momentum...
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 10:41:26 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 28, 2019 10:41:26 GMT 1
Sorry to push this thread higher than it merits now, but anyone who had any doubts regarding the hostility, and bullying within the Labour party should read the article by Tom Watson on the BBC website, even to the point of death threats being made. There is obviously a serious problem within the party and something that JC couldn't control, amongst other alleged illegalities, which then makes you wonder how this can be eradicated without significant root and branch changes. The trouble is though is the Labour party and its members are failing to accept there is anything wrong, and blaming their failures on political arguments and opposition policies.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 11:21:08 GMT 1
Tom Watson is like the big school bully who gets a slap of the little kid and then plays the bullied victim.
If anyone contributed to a toxic environment within Labour, it was Watson.
It's easy to research if anyone is really bothered.
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 11:40:47 GMT 1
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 28, 2019 11:40:47 GMT 1
He may be but he has more knowledge and experience of being an MP than, dare I say it, everyone on here, nd I didn't research this it merely was a new story on the BBC website today that I read. So more likely there may be a some truth in it and it is less likely to be opinion or denial, which is in abundance on this thread. But if constant denial is an option then it will never end, history is full of denial.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 28, 2019 11:44:48 GMT 1
Tom Watson is like the big school bully who gets a slap of the little kid and then plays the bullied victim. If anyone contributed to a toxic environment within Labour, it was Watson. It's easy to research if anyone is really bothered. All I would say is the party is better off without Tom Watson.
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 12:05:05 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 28, 2019 12:05:05 GMT 1
Whoever becomes the next Labour leader has a hell of a job on their hands and as mentioned above, as long as its the Momentum party then it may never recover (as in, winning an election). More from Matthew Goodwin which is worth a listen...
I mean an awful lot of this has been obvious to a good many of us for a good while now. Labour however, seem to have either missed or ignored this...and hence why they got shafted this time around whilst the Tories adjusted as required (easing austerity, reforming migration etc.).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 12:24:28 GMT 1
Whoever becomes the next Labour leader has a hell of a job on their hands and as mentioned above, as long as its the Momentum party then it may never recover (as in, winning an election). More from Matthew Goodwin which is worth a listen... I mean an awful lot of this has been obvious to a good many of us for a good while now. Labour however, seem to have either missed or ignored this...and hence why they got shafted this time around whilst the Tories adjusted as required (easing austerity, reforming migration etc.). Maybe Goodwin has some kind of axe to grind:- "On 27 May 2017, he predicted that Labour would not reach 38 per cent of the vote in the 2017 general election and he would eat his book if they did.[10] Labour did and, on 10 June, Goodwin chewed one page out of his book, live on Sky News, therefore not fulfilling the terms of the bet"
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 12:25:11 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 12:25:11 GMT 1
He may be but he has more knowledge and experience of being an MP than, dare I say it, everyone on here, nd I didn't research this it merely was a new story on the BBC website today that I read. So more likely there may be a some truth in it and it is less likely to be opinion or denial, which is in abundance on this thread. But if constant denial is an option then it will never end, history is full of denial. Fine, but all you have shown is a lack of understanding of the imtercine within the Labour party the last 5/6 years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 12:40:32 GMT 1
Whoever becomes the next Labour leader has a hell of a job on their hands and as mentioned above, as long as its the Momentum party then it may never recover (as in, winning an election). More from Matthew Goodwin which is worth a listen... I mean an awful lot of this has been obvious to a good many of us for a good while now. Labour however, seem to have either missed or ignored this...and hence why they got shafted this time around whilst the Tories adjusted as required (easing austerity, reforming migration etc.). Maybe Goodwin has some kind of axe to grind:- "On 27 May 2017, he predicted that Labour would not reach 38 per cent of the vote in the 2017 general election and he would eat his book if they did.[10] Labour did and, on 10 June, Goodwin chewed one page out of his book, live on Sky News, therefore not fulfilling the terms of the bet" Ha, I remember that. I don't think he has an axe to grind and he is taking a a firm centrist position. Unsurprisingly, considering his background. However, over 10 million people voted for Labour policies with certain demographics strongly in favour. Academics and political commentators seem to be ignoring this.
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 12:54:40 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 28, 2019 12:54:40 GMT 1
Whoever becomes the next Labour leader has a hell of a job on their hands and as mentioned above, as long as its the Momentum party then it may never recover (as in, winning an election). More from Matthew Goodwin which is worth a listen... I mean an awful lot of this has been obvious to a good many of us for a good while now. Labour however, seem to have either missed or ignored this...and hence why they got shafted this time around whilst the Tories adjusted as required (easing austerity, reforming migration etc.). Maybe Goodwin has some kind of axe to grind:- "On 27 May 2017, he predicted that Labour would not reach 38 per cent of the vote in the 2017 general election and he would eat his book if they did.[10] Labour did and, on 10 June, Goodwin chewed one page out of his book, live on Sky News, therefore not fulfilling the terms of the bet" I guess he was just the two years out.
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 12:56:48 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 28, 2019 12:56:48 GMT 1
Not sure that I need to quantify to you my understanding or knowledge of any subject on here, why do you feel the need to be personal when you don't know who I am. Maybe you need to step back and appreciate that other people have opinions apart from your own, and incidentally I have no political leanings at present.
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 13:36:13 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 28, 2019 13:36:13 GMT 1
He may be but he has more knowledge and experience of being an MP than, dare I say it, everyone on here, nd I didn't research this it merely was a new story on the BBC website today that I read. So more likely there may be a some truth in it and it is less likely to be opinion or denial, which is in abundance on this thread. But if constant denial is an option then it will never end, history is full of denial. The interview itself I gather the Beeb are referring to was with the Guardian, that's where I read about it this morning. So might be more included in the Guardian than the Beeb if anyone is interested...👍 Anyhow, I'm pretty sure he's not the only one who's been involved with the Labour party to have distanced themselves from it citing hostility and bullying. So I would think when it comes to it, there does appear to be some truth to it. It'll be interesting to see what the EHRC report into the party concludes. It may not take the view that the Labour party is anti-semitic but it might give us an idea about just how much hostility there is within the party (just looking to that leaked submission from the JLM, for example).
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 16:47:55 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 16:47:55 GMT 1
Not sure that I need to quantify to you my understanding or knowledge of any subject on here, why do you feel the need to be personal when you don't know who I am. Maybe you need to step back and appreciate that other people have opinions apart from your own, and incidentally I have no political leanings at present. But yet, you're happy to talk about people being in denial....
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GE 2019
Dec 28, 2019 17:06:29 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Dec 28, 2019 17:06:29 GMT 1
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