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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 15:51:29 GMT 1
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Dec 20, 2019 15:51:29 GMT 1
Well said Owen Paterson..... "Those people (leave voters) had been abused, they had be traduced, bombarded with propaganda leading up to the referendum, then after the referendum and since then. They were told they were thick. There were told they were racist. We in the ERG were told we were fascists, we were Naziβs, and weβre extremists. "And what did we want? All we wanted was to honour the referendum." He turned his frustration on the Labour benches. "For those members, itβs staggering to hear them this morning still quibbling, still cavilling about this. "Four times the people have spoken. How many more times do they have to speak to get it? They voted to leave and this bill means they will leave.β You're quite right, Labour are still missing the point. Anyone who changed to Tory in Labour heartlands must be happy with their decision looking at MPQ's this week. Labour are finished if they don't elect the right leader, but the Unions run the party now and will effectively decide the next leader themselves. Who finances political parties is an important issue, it the unions didn't support Labour who would and what would it mean for democracy? When predicting Tory policy then follow the money. Their financial support comes from hedge funds and billionaires. So it's easy to predict which way tax and financial regulation will go. Although I'm not surprised that Labour lost in depressed former industrial areas I'm very curious as to what voters in those places imagine the Tories will do for them.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 15:54:09 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 20, 2019 15:54:09 GMT 1
Not really a convincing majority though, when major irrevocable decisions like this are made it is often, and the idiot Cameron should have thought about, a requirement to have a 70% - 80% in favour to carry the decision, rather than just a simple, tiny, majority. Continued sour grapes πππ When is a majority not a majority ππππ When the numbers have not been tested for 4 years! Boris says the terms Leave and Remain are "tired". Well. I for one am tired of the phrase "We must honour the result of the referendum" 4 years ago. What we are doing is much more important than that and all we are heading for is years of instability until we get back to about where we were before.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 15:55:57 GMT 1
Not really a convincing majority though, when major irrevocable decisions like this are made it is often, and the idiot Cameron should have thought about, a requirement to have a 70% - 80% in favour to carry the decision, rather than just a simple, tiny, majority. Continued sour grapes πππ When is a majority not a majority ππππ It is certainly not the 43.6% of the total votes cast in the last election which is now riding rough shod over the actual majority.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 16:24:39 GMT 1
Post by servernaside on Dec 20, 2019 16:24:39 GMT 1
Ho ho ho
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 16:26:55 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 20, 2019 16:26:55 GMT 1
Bah, Humbug!
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Deleted
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 16:34:40 GMT 1
via mobile
Drew likes this
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 16:34:40 GMT 1
Continued sour grapes πππ When is a majority not a majority ππππ It is certainly not the 43.6% of the total votes cast in the last election which is now riding rough shod over the actual majority. 52% of the British electorate voted, in a historical referendum to leave the EU. Finally, the wishes of the majority are being acted on by the government.
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Post by barrynic on Dec 20, 2019 16:52:17 GMT 1
GET IT DONE...42 days to go and not even that bint Gina Miller can do anything about it.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 17:08:52 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 20, 2019 17:08:52 GMT 1
Interesting definition of majority! The 52% who voted for Brexit! A majority. That's fair enough, that was the majority that's got us where we are. I was thinking it was going too far to claim the majority had spoken in each of the four elections Paterson referred to. There was no obvious brexit majority in 2017, 2019 euros or 2019 - all after the original referendum and reflecting the continuing national split into two opposing camps. First past the post has chosen the minority that will now decide the issue. The brexiteer victimhood has become tiresome. Were you ever called thick or racist? I hope not and would be surprised if you were. It was only ever a small minority of remainers who resorted to that, just as I'm sure it's only a relatively small proportion of leavers who could sensibly be considered fascists. No doubt there'll be some brexiteers still playing the victim and blaming anyone and everyone but themselves if things turn out badly.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 17:10:34 GMT 1
Post by Red Rose In Exile on Dec 20, 2019 17:10:34 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Dec 20, 2019 17:28:38 GMT 1
Well said Owen Paterson..... "Those people (leave voters) had been abused, they had be traduced, bombarded with propaganda leading up to the referendum, then after the referendum and since then. They were told they were thick. There were told they were racist. We in the ERG were told we were fascists, we were Naziβs, and weβre extremists. "And what did we want? All we wanted was to honour the referendum." He turned his frustration on the Labour benches. "For those members, itβs staggering to hear them this morning still quibbling, still cavilling about this. "Four times the people have spoken. How many more times do they have to speak to get it? They voted to leave and this bill means they will leave.β Sorry but this is absolute rubbish; if the ERG had voted with the government originally on T May's withdrawal agreement we would have left long ago, agree the only way to go forward is to leave but can they stop with the dishonesty and self righteousness? No apology needed - it's Owen Paterson. Apparently, he needed to be told four times by "the people" before he got it. Such hypocrisy. Along with the rest of the ERG, he voted against earlier versions of the withdrawal agreement. But for Paterson and his chums the UK would already have left the EU. I expect they'd say the version of brexit in May's deal wasn't the right one. When we remainers say anything like that of course, we're being elitist and telling people they're stupid and didn't know what they voted for. As I say the ERG, Paterson included, are stand out hypocrites. Even Kawczynski found the ounce of integrity to resign from it. This history is already being rewritten by the winning side. It won't alter the truth though.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 17:30:14 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 17:30:14 GMT 1
The 52% who voted for Brexit! A majority. That's fair enough, that was the majority that's got us where we are. I was thinking it was going too far to claim the majority had spoken in each of the four elections Paterson referred to. There was no obvious brexit majority in 2017, 2019 euros or 2019 - all after the original referendum and reflecting the continuing national split into two opposing camps. First past the post has chosen the minority that will now decide the issue. The brexiteer victimhood has become tiresome. Were you ever called thick or racist? I hope not and would be surprised if you were. It was only ever a small minority of remainers who resorted to that, just as I'm sure it's only a relatively small proportion of leavers who could sensibly be considered fascists. No doubt there'll be some brexiteers still playing the victim and blaming anyone and everyone but themselves if things turn out badly. I apologise, I didn't read the full Paterson comment on the BBC live reporting and I therefore agree with your comment that he was in fact going too far in suggesting that four times the people have spoken.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 17:30:47 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 20, 2019 17:30:47 GMT 1
Of MPs, not people. Paterson was talking about people, not MPs.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 17:33:12 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 20, 2019 17:33:12 GMT 1
That's fair enough, that was the majority that's got us where we are. I was thinking it was going too far to claim the majority had spoken in each of the four elections Paterson referred to. There was no obvious brexit majority in 2017, 2019 euros or 2019 - all after the original referendum and reflecting the continuing national split into two opposing camps. First past the post has chosen the minority that will now decide the issue. The brexiteer victimhood has become tiresome. Were you ever called thick or racist? I hope not and would be surprised if you were. It was only ever a small minority of remainers who resorted to that, just as I'm sure it's only a relatively small proportion of leavers who could sensibly be considered fascists. No doubt there'll be some brexiteers still playing the victim and blaming anyone and everyone but themselves if things turn out badly. I apologise, I didn't read the full Paterson comment on the BBC live reporting and I therefore agree with your comment that he was in fact going too far in suggesting that four times the people have spoken. Haha, I think we'd have had some even livelier times if we'd been through four referendums!
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 18:22:31 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 18:22:31 GMT 1
It is certainly not the 43.6% of the total votes cast in the last election which is now riding rough shod over the actual majority. 52% of the British electorate voted, in a historical referendum to leave the EU. Finally, the wishes of the majority are being acted on by the government. That was essentially one moment in time and polls consistently have said since that is not what the country wants. Boris's blue and white collar workers who he called stupid have seen to the present situation. Treating the electorate with contempt is deeply embedded in the Tory party. www.brainyquote.com/quotes/winston_churchill_105424Incidentally did you vote Tory (an assumption I know) with the understanding that Boris's Brexit Bill was the one that was actually going to be the one and not the updated barstewardised version which omits some things and precludes parliamentary scrutiny in some situations?
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 18:25:02 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by barrynic on Dec 20, 2019 18:25:02 GMT 1
If Corbyn had baggage, heaven knows what Johnson has got... ....but we trust Boris and hate Corbyn and his looney friends.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 18:48:52 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 20, 2019 18:48:52 GMT 1
If Corbyn had baggage, heaven knows what Johnson has got... ....but we trust Boris and hate Corbyn and his looney friends. Problem is Boris appears to have looney friends too, the russians and the ERG for starters.
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Post by shrewder on Dec 20, 2019 18:52:46 GMT 1
If Corbyn had baggage, heaven knows what Johnson has got... ....but we trust Boris and hate Corbyn and his looney friends. Leave the we trust Boris out of it. Many of us don't.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 19:06:39 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Drew on Dec 20, 2019 19:06:39 GMT 1
The 52% who voted for Brexit! A majority. Not really a convincing majority though, when major irrevocable decisions like this are made it is often, and the idiot Cameron should have thought about, a requirement to have a 70% - 80% in favour to carry the decision, rather than just a simple, tiny, majority. Maybe we should have had a referendum with a super majority before ratification of the Lisbon Treaty? Wonder if that would have carried?
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Post by barrynic on Dec 20, 2019 19:10:01 GMT 1
....but we trust Boris and hate Corbyn and his looney friends. Leave the we trust Boris out of it. Many of us don't. ....a few on this board don't... but millions around the country do and they elected him.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 20, 2019 19:35:57 GMT 1
Leave the we trust Boris out of it. Many of us don't. ....a few on this board don't... but millions around the country do and they elected him. Maybe. Might just be the Trump factor, the electorate expect that every time a politician opens their mouth they lie, so they pick the one that tells them what they want to hear and keeps telling them. One fixed idea, repeated until the electorate decide that's the lie they want to go for. No long list of promises for them to go back on, free Broadband indeed, yeah right,like that was going to happen in the next year or so. Even with minimal promises, Boris and co have already stepped sideways from raising the minimum wage, now it's dependent on how the post Brexit economy goes.
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GE 2019
Dec 20, 2019 19:54:16 GMT 1
Post by Red Rose In Exile on Dec 20, 2019 19:54:16 GMT 1
Of MPs, not people. Paterson was talking about people, not MPs. Missed that (important) fact!!
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Post by venceremos on Dec 20, 2019 21:33:15 GMT 1
Leave the we trust Boris out of it. Many of us don't. ....a few on this board don't... but millions around the country do and they elected him. Millions around the country don't, we're not unique on this board. Let's just accept that the country is every bit as divided as it was before the election.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 20, 2019 21:48:15 GMT 1
....a few on this board don't... but millions around the country do and they elected him. Millions around the country don't, we're not unique on this board. Let's just accept that the country is every bit as divided as it was before the election. Yep. Time and again the message on the doorsteps was that they didn't like Johnson and regarded him as untrustworthy, but wouldn't have Corbyn at any price.
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Post by tvor on Dec 21, 2019 14:47:08 GMT 1
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18116884.family-behind-dorset-defence-giant-cobham-slams-government-approving-takeover/?ref=mac"THE family behind Dorset-based defence company Cobham has attacked the Government over its decision to give the go-ahead to a Β£4 billion takeover of the business by a US private equity firm."
"The MoD also feared the security of military information held on the firm's systems could be undermined if Advent decided to sell off sections of the business.
Lady Nadine said: "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas.
"In one of its first major economic decisions, the Government is not taking back control so much as handing it away."
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GE 2019
Dec 21, 2019 16:31:38 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 16:31:38 GMT 1
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18116884.family-behind-dorset-defence-giant-cobham-slams-government-approving-takeover/?ref=mac"THE family behind Dorset-based defence company Cobham has attacked the Government over its decision to give the go-ahead to a Β£4 billion takeover of the business by a US private equity firm."
"The MoD also feared the security of military information held on the firm's systems could be undermined if Advent decided to sell off sections of the business.
Lady Nadine said: "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas.
"In one of its first major economic decisions, the Government is not taking back control so much as handing it away." I used to work for Cobham. Massive company with subsidiaries all around the world, a very diverse business and not really 'British' I suspect that Advent will asset strip parts of the business....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 16:34:06 GMT 1
If Corbyn had baggage, heaven knows what Johnson has got... ....but we trust Boris and hate Corbyn and his looney friends. Whose we? Remember over 50% of the electorate voted against him.
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GE 2019
Dec 21, 2019 18:49:11 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 21, 2019 18:49:11 GMT 1
Some very sorry looking homeless people out there on the streets today. Boris, if there is one thing you could do to announce something to try to help people in this situation it would I'm sure help and give you a very warm glow for feeling you have reached out and helped people.
How about a whip round from all the generous benefactors that got you the win? Anything, please!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 18:54:41 GMT 1
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18116884.family-behind-dorset-defence-giant-cobham-slams-government-approving-takeover/?ref=mac"THE family behind Dorset-based defence company Cobham has attacked the Government over its decision to give the go-ahead to a Β£4 billion takeover of the business by a US private equity firm."
"The MoD also feared the security of military information held on the firm's systems could be undermined if Advent decided to sell off sections of the business.
Lady Nadine said: "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas.
"In one of its first major economic decisions, the Government is not taking back control so much as handing it away." Itβs started , didnβt think it would take long .
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GE 2019
Dec 21, 2019 19:42:13 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by salop27 on Dec 21, 2019 19:42:13 GMT 1
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/18116884.family-behind-dorset-defence-giant-cobham-slams-government-approving-takeover/?ref=mac"THE family behind Dorset-based defence company Cobham has attacked the Government over its decision to give the go-ahead to a Β£4 billion takeover of the business by a US private equity firm."
"The MoD also feared the security of military information held on the firm's systems could be undermined if Advent decided to sell off sections of the business.
Lady Nadine said: "This is a deeply disappointing announcement and one cynically timed to avoid scrutiny on the weekend before Christmas.
"In one of its first major economic decisions, the Government is not taking back control so much as handing it away." Itβs started , didnβt think it would take long . Lady Nadine is deeply dissapointed because she believes the company to be worth more then what is being offered. The initial offer was made in july and accepted by the shareholders in August. Not sure why this story has even made it onto this thread really.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 22, 2019 13:10:05 GMT 1
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