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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 17:15:05 GMT 1
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 16, 2019 17:15:05 GMT 1
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 17:29:16 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Dec 16, 2019 17:29:16 GMT 1
Whilst McDonnell and McCluskey are pushing Long-Bailey. 10 more years at least for Boris at this rate.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 16, 2019 17:39:35 GMT 1
Unsure why the new leader has to be Northern.... Boris is about as Northern as a Northern Train being actually on time! I think not having a tainted past or anything/too much the media can smear them on is a good starting point for the leader of any party. Corbyn was on a hiding to nothing with his terrorist links, regardless of how you view them and what you make of them. Exactly. Just don't get Labour complaining about the amount of coverage directed towards Corbyn and his past but what exactly did they think would happen. The man has spent his career associating with terrorist and anti-semites. It was always going to come back and bite him on the arse. It was a given.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 16, 2019 17:53:52 GMT 1
Unsure why the new leader has to be Northern.... Boris is about as Northern as a Northern Train being actually on time! I think not having a tainted past or anything/too much the media can smear them on is a good starting point for the leader of any party. Corbyn was on a hiding to nothing with his terrorist links, regardless of how you view them and what you make of them. Err. I assume you are aware of Boris's past and the limitless material against him? Doesn't seem to have done him much harm, though with Corbyn as his opponent it was an open goal anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 17:54:13 GMT 1
There is a strange parallel here. Corbyn before he became leader of the opposition was widely acknowledged by all as the most decent and 'nice' politician. The same was said of Michael Foot before and after he became Labour leader. Conveniently crucified....both. No guesses as to why !!!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 16, 2019 18:19:20 GMT 1
I think not having a tainted past or anything/too much the media can smear them on is a good starting point for the leader of any party. Corbyn was on a hiding to nothing with his terrorist links, regardless of how you view them and what you make of them. Err. I assume you are aware of Boris's past and the limitless material against him? Doesn't seem to have done him much harm, though with Corbyn as his opponent it was an open goal anyway. Johnson got a good pelting from the press too for sure. I guess most people however, didn't deem Johnson's past indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's.
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 18:29:41 GMT 1
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 16, 2019 18:29:41 GMT 1
Alot of people have skeletons in the cupboard, and when you make the decision to live your life in the public eye you have to accept that the media will dig them up, along with every skeleton of people you associated with. Why some see this as being Anti Corbyn I am not so sure about, they do it to everyone if it sells a story. Unfortunately you make your bed and lie in it, as they say, but sometimes it depends who's bed you have chosen to sleep in doesn't it. We all make mistakes in life but it us the better person that acknowledges this and apologises. Of course you can view this any way you like, depends which side you are on, bit like playing on peoples words, depends on how you want to interpret them, and how you want to sway opinion or look clever.
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Post by venceremos on Dec 16, 2019 18:47:34 GMT 1
Err. I assume you are aware of Boris's past and the limitless material against him? Doesn't seem to have done him much harm, though with Corbyn as his opponent it was an open goal anyway. Johnson got a good pelting from the press too for sure. I guess most people however, didn't deem Johnson's past indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. Haha, anyone might think we had a balanced media, half for one side, half for the other. I know our print media has always been predominantly on the right, unsurprisingly given its ownership, but Johnson suffered nothing like the vilification of Corbyn. Newspaper circulations may be much lower but their online versions circulate more widely, so I think they're still as influential as ever they were. It's all part of framing the debate and providing a context and it means Labour too often starts on the back foot. It's only one factor, I know, but it's still a factor and always will be. It's much easier for a Tory leader.
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 16, 2019 19:01:40 GMT 1
Haha, anyone might think we had a balanced media, half for one side, half for the other. I know our print media has always been predominantly on the right, unsurprisingly given its ownership, but Johnson suffered nothing like the vilification of Corbyn. Newspaper circulations may be much lower but their online versions circulate more widely, so I think they're still as influential as ever they were. It's all part of framing the debate and providing a context and it means Labour too often starts on the back foot. It's only one factor, I know, but it's still a factor and always will be. It's much easier for a Tory leader. Exactly. Anyone who thinks the next Labour leader will get a fair crack of the whip is kidding themselves. Look at 'Red Ed' Miliband, 'one-eyed Scottish idiot' Gordon Brown and Neil Kinnock 'the Welsh Windbag'. Blair got away with it to an extent due to sucking up to Murdoch, but still got grief from the Mail etc Anyone whose policies even slightly challenge the vested interests of the billionaire owners will be for it. I'm sure those who loved Jess Phillips for her Corbyn bashing would change their tune in an instant.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 19:14:15 GMT 1
Johnson got a good pelting from the press too for sure. I guess most people however, didn't deem Johnson's past indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. Haha, anyone might think we had a balanced media, half for one side, half for the other. I know our print media has always been predominantly on the right, unsurprisingly given its ownership, but Johnson suffered nothing like the vilification of Corbyn. Newspaper circulations may be much lower but their online versions circulate more widely, so I think they're still as influential as ever they were. It's all part of framing the debate and providing a context and it means Labour too often starts on the back foot. It's only one factor, I know, but it's still a factor and always will be. It's much easier for a Tory leader. Spot on. I well remember the bacon sandwich and Ed Milliband. Anything remotely social democratic is pounced on at extreme left-wing. You only have to see some the posts on here to realise that. Of course there was the stench of anti-Semitism about Milliband from some sections of the same media calling out Corbyn, while of course ignoring the Islamophobia in the Tory party. Hypocrisy is what this country does very well.
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 16, 2019 19:42:38 GMT 1
Who actually reads a newspaper and believes it anyway, I gave up 30 years ago when I realised what crap they spout, and it is a common fact that people will buy a publication that represents their own views, bit like watching a football team that you support rather than a random one. Opinion is opinion but it is not necessarily the truth, as it is tainted with beliefs, similar to religion, and it takes an awful lot of work to dispel beliefs. I don't agree with some of the stuff on here that seems to call people out about their opinion, we are all right and we are all wrong. I also find that opinion is also moving into denial about some issues, and the calling out of someone else for their misdemeanors is not addressing the issue, merely a diversion of the root cause.
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Post by venceremos on Dec 16, 2019 19:50:29 GMT 1
Who actually reads a newspaper and believes it anyway, I gave up 30 years ago when I realised what cr@p they spout, and it is a common fact that people will buy a publication that represents their own views, bit like watching a football team that you support rather than a random one. Opinion is opinion but it is not necessarily the truth, as it is tainted with beliefs, similar to religion, and it takes an awful lot of work to dispel beliefs. I don't agree with some of the stuff on here that seems to call people out about their opinion, we are all right and we are all wrong. I also find that opinion is also moving into denial about some issues, and the calling out of someone else for their misdemeanors is not addressing the issue, merely a diversion of the root cause. That's akin to asking who sees adverts and buys the product as a result. It's rarely as immediate and direct as that. It's about building an awareness and creating the context. Most of us might think we're not affected by advertising in our buying decisions. We'd be wrong.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Dec 16, 2019 20:05:05 GMT 1
Had various debates on various platforms and this is the most civil.
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 21:26:35 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 16, 2019 21:26:35 GMT 1
Johnson got a good pelting from the press too for sure. I guess most people however, didn't deem Johnson's past indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. Haha, anyone might think we had a balanced media, half for one side, half for the other. I know our print media has always been predominantly on the right, unsurprisingly given its ownership, but Johnson suffered nothing like the vilification of Corbyn. Newspaper circulations may be much lower but their online versions circulate more widely, so I think they're still as influential as ever they were. It's all part of framing the debate and providing a context and it means Labour too often starts on the back foot. It's only one factor, I know, but it's still a factor and always will be. It's much easier for a Tory leader. From what I picked up Johnson got attacked throughout this campaign from the likes of the Guardian, the Mirror, the Independent, and I'd also go as far as to say the Metro. He may not have suffered the same vilification as Johnson but that was because he hadn't knocked about with known anti-Semites and terrorists. As I mentioned above, I think most people would not deem Johnson's indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. But those newspapers most certainly went after Johnson. Johnson did not get an easy ride in certain sections of the media for sure. And everyone within the UK is perfectly free to pick the media that they wish to consume. Everyone could if they so wish choose to read the Mirror rather than the Sun, no one is forcing anyone to choose one or the other. I am very much of the opinion that when it comes to the media it is very much about confirmation bias. So its easier for a Tory leader come what may because for the most part, that is where most people in the UK feel at home politically (press or no press). Sure its a factor but to what degree, not sure. Not as much as Labour would have us believe I reckon and more so when looking to someone like Corbyn and his past. Corbyn was a gift to the Tories, Johnson was incredibly lucky in his opposition. And if Labour do want to have some chance of winning in the future they would do well not to select someone who has that much baggage and who has such past associations. I mean that just seems common sense to me, how he even got there in the first place is beyond me (unless of course winning elections isn't your thing).
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 21:35:56 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 16, 2019 21:35:56 GMT 1
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 21:38:01 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 16, 2019 21:38:01 GMT 1
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 21:56:21 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 21:56:21 GMT 1
The stock market has certainly responded in a positive way to the election result. Good news for all of us who dabble in stocks and shares! A good day indeed www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50814766
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 22:10:30 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 16, 2019 22:10:30 GMT 1
Haha, anyone might think we had a balanced media, half for one side, half for the other. I know our print media has always been predominantly on the right, unsurprisingly given its ownership, but Johnson suffered nothing like the vilification of Corbyn. Newspaper circulations may be much lower but their online versions circulate more widely, so I think they're still as influential as ever they were. It's all part of framing the debate and providing a context and it means Labour too often starts on the back foot. It's only one factor, I know, but it's still a factor and always will be. It's much easier for a Tory leader. From what I picked up Johnson got attacked throughout this campaign from the likes of the Guardian, the Mirror, the Independent, and I'd also go as far as to say the Metro. He may not have suffered the same vilification as Johnson but that was because he hadn't knocked about with known anti-Semites and terrorists. As I mentioned above, I think most people would not deem Johnson's indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. But those newspapers most certainly went after Johnson. Johnson did not get an easy ride in certain sections of the media for sure. And everyone within the UK is perfectly free to pick the media that they wish to consume. Everyone could if they so wish choose to read the Mirror rather than the Sun, no one is forcing anyone to choose one or the other. I am very much of the opinion that when it comes to the media it is very much about confirmation bias. So its easier for a Tory leader come what may because for the most part, that is where most people in the UK feel at home politically (press or no press). Sure its a factor but to what degree, not sure. Not as much as Labour would have us believe I reckon and more so when looking to someone like Corbyn and his past. Corbyn was a gift to the Tories, Johnson was incredibly lucky in his opposition. And if Labour do want to have some chance of winning in the future they would do well not to select someone who has that much baggage and who has such past associations. I mean that just seems common sense to me, how he even got there in the first place is beyond me (unless of course winning elections isn't your thing). As I mentioned above, I think most people would not deem Johnson's indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's.
- that's putting the cart before the horse when we're discussing the extent to which attitudes to "Corbyn's indiscretions" have been shaped by the media. It's also very much in the eye of the beholder and can't be surmised from the election result. So its easier for a Tory leader come what may because for the most part, that is where most people in the UK feel at home politically
- a lot of people buy/consume their media for reasons that have nothing to do with politics. And "most people" are not Conservative voters. There have been more of them than for any other single party of late, certainly, but that's not the same thing at all. It's still a minority of actual voters and a substantially smaller minority of the entire electorate and beyond (under 18s also consume media).
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 22:11:13 GMT 1
Post by venceremos on Dec 16, 2019 22:11:13 GMT 1
The stock market has certainly responded in a positive way to the election result. Good news for all of us who dabble in stocks and shares! A good day indeed www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50814766Froth. My investments actually ended Friday lower than they'd begun. Looks like today might have been better but I suspect that's more to do with easing of trade tensions.
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 22:11:53 GMT 1
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Post by lenny on Dec 16, 2019 22:11:53 GMT 1
The stock market has certainly responded in a positive way to the election result. Good news for all of us who dabble in stocks and shares! A good day indeed www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50814766By way of context, the FTSE remains below its summer peak before it was driven down on political concerns. What will prove decisive is the next phase of Brexit negotiations, which have the potential to completely derail markets or put some fuel on the neglected fire.
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 22:52:43 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 16, 2019 22:52:43 GMT 1
From what I picked up Johnson got attacked throughout this campaign from the likes of the Guardian, the Mirror, the Independent, and I'd also go as far as to say the Metro. He may not have suffered the same vilification as Johnson but that was because he hadn't knocked about with known anti-Semites and terrorists. As I mentioned above, I think most people would not deem Johnson's indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's. But those newspapers most certainly went after Johnson. Johnson did not get an easy ride in certain sections of the media for sure. And everyone within the UK is perfectly free to pick the media that they wish to consume. Everyone could if they so wish choose to read the Mirror rather than the Sun, no one is forcing anyone to choose one or the other. I am very much of the opinion that when it comes to the media it is very much about confirmation bias. So its easier for a Tory leader come what may because for the most part, that is where most people in the UK feel at home politically (press or no press). Sure its a factor but to what degree, not sure. Not as much as Labour would have us believe I reckon and more so when looking to someone like Corbyn and his past. Corbyn was a gift to the Tories, Johnson was incredibly lucky in his opposition. And if Labour do want to have some chance of winning in the future they would do well not to select someone who has that much baggage and who has such past associations. I mean that just seems common sense to me, how he even got there in the first place is beyond me (unless of course winning elections isn't your thing). As I mentioned above, I think most people would not deem Johnson's indiscretions to be on a par with Corbyn's.
- that's putting the cart before the horse when we're discussing the extent to which attitudes to "Corbyn's indiscretions" have been shaped by the media. It's also very much in the eye of the beholder and can't be surmised from the election result. So its easier for a Tory leader come what may because for the most part, that is where most people in the UK feel at home politically
- a lot of people buy/consume their media for reasons that have nothing to do with politics. And "most people" are not Conservative voters. There have been more of them than for any other single party of late, certainly, but that's not the same thing at all. It's still a minority of actual voters and a substantially smaller minority of the entire electorate and beyond (under 18s also consume media).
On the first point; I really don't think such things need to be 'shaped by the media', its very much there for all to see. And when looking to what has been said by those who spoke to those on the doorstep I think it can be surmised as such from this election result. His past was always going to catch up to him. Why anyone thought it wouldn't play a significant role is beyond me. People know of his past associations, he didn't make any effort to conceal them at the time (quite the opposite I would say). On the second point; I do think people tend to choose their newspaper dependent on their world view (in which politics plays a part). And sure, perhaps not Conservative party voters but as a nation, I think it could be said that we are for the most part conservative. If Johnson sees out this full term then in the last 50 years only Blair would have led Labour to electoral success (and that was through reinventing Labour to New Labour). I think that tells its own story. I would never argue that the majority of the UK press isn't behind the Tories. No doubt about that. I'm just not sure as others are about the significance that plays. I think for the most part they are preaching to the choir.
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 16, 2019 23:14:16 GMT 1
Why Corbyn faced an almost impossible task...
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Post by Pilch on Dec 16, 2019 23:43:10 GMT 1
can we have another election ?
some people have turned 18 since last Thursday , its unfair that they never voted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 23:54:38 GMT 1
can we have another election ? some people have turned 18 since last Thursday , its unfair that they never voted If this is an analogy, it is spurious to say the least. We will have the chance of another election in 5 years at the most whereas it would be impossible to rejoin the EU if we wanted on the same advantageous terms. As far as that is concerned we are completely ****ed
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 23:56:39 GMT 1
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 16, 2019 23:56:39 GMT 1
Thanks Rob Ford (whoever you are) as I am going to stop posting on this thread now as I have lost the will to read another opinion/excuse/opinion/excuse for a political party's loss in a general election, and the words are getting far too big and complicated.
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GE 2019
Dec 16, 2019 23:58:25 GMT 1
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Dec 16, 2019 23:58:25 GMT 1
Before I go has Rob Ford got any views on the game this weekend as he does seem quite clever.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Dec 17, 2019 11:22:28 GMT 1
Going to stir the pot again here but I've just noticed the pound has gone back to the exact levels it was at before the exit poll - looks like it was just a sugar rush and not a long term thing
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GE 2019
Dec 17, 2019 12:00:04 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 17, 2019 12:00:04 GMT 1
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GE 2019
Dec 17, 2019 12:29:54 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Dec 17, 2019 12:29:54 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 17, 2019 12:35:50 GMT 1
Going to stir the pot again here but I've just noticed the pound has gone back to the exact levels it was at before the exit poll - looks like it was just a sugar rush and not a long term thing That's due to Johnson's proposed legislation making a no-deal Brexit more likely. Been a great start, record A&E waiting times, unelected cabinet members and further restrictions to workers rights on the table. Merry Christmas! Oh, and a Russian billionaire newspaper owner holding a party in Johnson's honour. Thank god the establishment has fallen and the British working class is back in control!
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