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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 13:08:12 GMT 1
It's very easy to find it out just go to clubs retained lists. All depends if you know the industry and how it works and obviously you don't, maybe your ambition has gone because of MM or this forum๐. Like I said earlier, if we signed the best from the non league or the quality players from league 2 then all good but we haven't, that's the fact. All we have to hope for is the next 2/3 signing pull us out the ๐ฉ๐ค.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 13:15:14 GMT 1
It's very easy to find it out just go to clubs retained lists. All depends if you know the industry and how it works and obviously you don't, maybe your ambition has gone because of MM or this forum๐. Like I said earlier, if we signed the best from the non league or the quality players from league 2 then all good but we haven't, that's the fact. All we have to hope for is the next 2/3 signing pull us out the ๐ฉ๐ค. You make it sound so so simple.... When of course in reality it is not...
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 13:25:46 GMT 1
Making what sound easy? Signing players? 2 of the best non league players have gone to league 2 and the 3rd has gone to Blackpool. 5 other clubs in league 1 have signed players from Europe this season. We sign 5 players with the the experience of 12 games at league 1 level last season and I'm getting criticised for trying to be ambitious. We've got a decent manager in and we're still signing the quality of these 5, just thought things might change under PH, what an idiot for thinking that.
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Post by shrewder on Jul 10, 2017 13:34:52 GMT 1
Making what sound easy? Signing players? 2 of the best non league players have gone to league 2 and the 3rd has gone to Blackpool. 5 other clubs in league 1 have signed players from Europe this season. We sign 5 players with the the experience of 12 games at league 1 level last season and I'm getting criticised for trying to be ambitious. We've got a decent manager in and we're still signing the quality of these 5, just thought things might change under PH, what an idiot for thinking that. Wake up and realise the club live in the real world. Money Money Money, yes that's the reality. Like it or not unfortunately that's the world we live in not fantasy football of some stupid computer game.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 10, 2017 13:35:14 GMT 1
Blimey Adam, you've gone from zero posts to 28 in less than a day and all of them saying the same things.
Don't let an obsession take over your life.
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 13:35:33 GMT 1
Any signing you make is a gamble, fact. You've gotta try and put the odds in your favour haven't you? You said about free players in Scotland, look at Ash Taylor now at (Northampton Town), was regarded as one of the best CBs in Scotland (was at Aberdeen) and he didnt want to sign a new deal because he wanted a change, so not all free agents are what you're claiming, this is where good recruitment comes into play. Look up in Scotland now there's a young player Lawrence Shankland who has been released by Aberdeen at 21, he's got a goal ratio of 1-2 in the championship, there's also other players up in Scotland who scored like this and now he has moved to Nottingham Forest. There's also other free agents like Nick Ross/Sean Welsh all saying they want new challenges and are 25-27 respectively, all with Premeir league/championship experience and with over 200+ games at that level. All the information is easily accessible over the internet and I thought we could have attracted these sort of players. Just would like to see some ambition that's all. Done the right way like Huddersfield/Fleetwood/ Bradford to name a few it can make a really difference and bring a buzz to the club that we mean business. Northampton have just had a fairly big investor join them so can offer a lot more then we can. You mention Shankland who has joined Forest. Again another club we cant compete with financially and reputation wise. I get that these are examples but 75-80 per cent of the Scottish Championship is in most peoples opinion a lower standard of football then England's League 1 give or take a hand full of players. Huddersfield and Bradford are massive clubs in stature to STFC and will find it easier to attract players. I would like to see us as an attractive club/location to want to be around. We have a modern stadium and new training facilities. Young, hungry manager with a fairly decent sized fan base for our level. We have to be realistic and admit that we can't financially compete with Blackburn, Bradford, Charlton, MK Dons, Portsmouth and Wigan in FFP due to higher gates. Thats not to say we can't emulate the success of Fleetwood, Burton and Blackpool (a few years back). I personally love the Burton story of signing so called "no bodies" and players who have done well at a lower level and giving them a chance and getting that perfect squad balance. I think PH has still got a few targets up his sleeve yet and we definatly shouldn't be written off. I don't feel our squad is weaker then last years. We had a few bigger names sign last year who looked to be hear to pick up an easy check and move on. PH wants the total opposite. I will admit I've not been blown out of the water with any of his signings but at the same time i haven't questioned any by thinking " why have we signed him?". I have before wandered why have we not opened up our scouting range or even looked at the GH Academy and Nike Academy but there will be perfectly good answers for that and i respect that.
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2017 13:35:37 GMT 1
Making what sound easy? Signing players? 2 of the best non league players have gone to league 2 and the 3rd has gone to Blackpool. 5 other clubs in league 1 have signed players from Europe this season. We sign 5 players with the the experience of 12 games at league 1 level last season and I'm getting criticised for trying to be ambitious. We've got a decent manager in and we're still signing the quality of these 5, just thought things might change under PH, what an idiot for thinking that. I wonder how much of a barrier being unable to shift unwanted players has been for PH? I know we've got El Abd and Lancashire off the books, but that a while to be arranged, and we still have McGivern, O'Brien and Leitch Smith to move on. I'll withhold judgement until I see these players in action, and what sort of a squad we have come August 5. I can understand your concern, though.
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 13:42:10 GMT 1
Shankland hasn't gone Forest, I said a player who scored at a good ratio who was at Hibs went Forest don't know his name sorry, I said Shankland is a free agent and if he walked through the door you'll be all jumping for joy and saying what a signing. Heard he was training with a league 2 team from a friend who lives up North.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 13:52:23 GMT 1
2 of the best non league players have gone to league 2 and the 3rd has gone to Blackpool. Who are the three out of interest?
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jul 10, 2017 14:01:18 GMT 1
Making what sound easy? Signing players? 2 of the best non league players have gone to league 2 and the 3rd has gone to Blackpool. 5 other clubs in league 1 have signed players from Europe this season. We sign 5 players with the the experience of 12 games at league 1 level last season and I'm getting criticised for trying to be ambitious. We've got a decent manager in and we're still signing the quality of these 5, just thought things might change under PH, what an idiot for thinking that. I wonder how much of a barrier being unable to shift unwanted players has been for PH? I know we've got El Abd and Lancashire off the books, but that a while to be arranged, and we still have McGivern, O'Brien and Leitch Smith to move on. I'll withhold judgement until I see these players in action, and what sort of a squad we have come August 5. I can understand your concern, though. Think that's a damn good point a while to get rid of Lancashire & El Abd, and we've still got several more that clearly aren't wanted, but they'll be on decent wages. Until we can get them out it'll be restricting us on who we can bring in
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 14:01:26 GMT 1
Shankland seems to be something Hurst is doing? Aberdeen pulled him from Queen's Park (part-time) and a gamble to which looking at it they have felt hasn't worked due to a few loan spells down the Scottish pyramid and has scored 4 goals in 2 seasons? Am i missed some hype here?
I get what your saying that hes coming from a good set up at Aberdeen and looked like he had potential but....... so did Ryan Esson. Why is it a bad thing that we hare doing what Aberdeen have done and found our own non league player?
Shankland has a ratio of 1 in 4 games mainly in part time football, Scotland. Gnahoua has a ratio of under 1 in 2 non league England
You seem very against him and recommended someone who doesn't seem as prolific as your claiming you want.
Jason Cummings is the lad from Hibs who moved to Forest for an undisclosed fee reported to be in the region of ยฃ450,000 plus some decent add-ons which makes him out of reach.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 14:03:58 GMT 1
Shankland hasn't gone Forest, I said a player who scored at a good ratio who was at Hibs went Forest don't know his name sorry, I said Shankland is a free agent and if he walked through the door you'll be all jumping for joy and saying what a signing. Heard he was training with a league 2 team from a friend who lives up North. If he's training with a League Two team, why would we be jumping for joy if we signed him? Doesn't sound like he's highly sort after.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 14:05:57 GMT 1
Yes I agree we are not a club that is going to sign a player which has a record of 20+ goals in League 1. We can't afford wages or a massive transfer fee. 20+ goal players don't grow on trees and normally the Premier/Championship snap these players up for the development squads, the way football is the league 1/2 clubs are going to be the test to see how that player is developing, it's been like this for years (remember David Beckham) loaned from a Premier league club with no experience to Preston. Every player has to play for a club to get men's football (Senior football). The problem with loans are we don't own the player so when that player shows a spark hes goes back to his club and we have developed that player for nothing.
PH record of taking players that want to play and making them the finished article, this is called 'coaching' and surely that's what he and his coaches are paid to do, rather than players who just want a wage to sit on the bench and not improve. This is why Shrewsbury and smaller clubs are still in business, but every player is risk, from non league or a Premier League academy.
We are a club that has limited scouting in England Scotland and Wales, I do agree that Scottish league players are good, but somebody with a 15+ goals may not suit the style of play and even adapt to English football and uprooting his family. There is plenty of examples of non league players coming good. Remember Shaun Whalley was signed from Luton a Conference club at the time.
Without seeing any of the new players play how can you say the squad is weaker? We had a League one ready squad August last year, too be honest i thought we would finish a two places higher with that squad and still have MM as our manager, how wrong was I! The players with a reputation turned out to be worse than the previous seasons squad. Wow signings cost us a lot of our budget and i would prefer having a squad of 23 players that have 17 high paid ones.
Grammer police put off posters, please go easy on people with dyslexia, its hard enough for them to spell words and get them in the right context.
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Post by buryshrew on Jul 10, 2017 14:12:16 GMT 1
Given we haven't seen any players leave that I'll miss (other than loanees), coupled with not having seen the new arrivals play, plus the fact that I'd expect more arrivals yet before the start of the season, I think it's more than a little early to speculate. What I am confident of, however, is that the team kicking off this season will be fitter, better organised and more motivated than the shambles of the last one. So until then my glass remains more than half full. Chill Adam, enjoy the summer!
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 14:16:51 GMT 1
Given we haven't seen any players leave that I'll miss (other than loanees), coupled with not having seen the new arrivals play, plus the fact that I'd expect more arrivals yet before the start of the season, I think it's more than a little early to speculate. What I am confident of, however, is that the team kicking off this season will be fitter, better organised and more motivated than the shambles of the last one. So until then my glass remains more than half full. Chill Adam, enjoy the summer! Really couldn't agree more with the fitness, match sharpness and much more organised.
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 14:17:05 GMT 1
He's 21 and done extremely more in his short career than the 2 strikers we've brought in put together. You're telling me if it's between Shankland or the 2 we've brought in you'd pick the ones that have come in? There's a number of players who've made the jump but the ones that stick out are nick anderton - Blackpool, sterling - Mansfield and Turgott - Stevenage, these are to name a few, so if one of these sort of players come to the club I could see the thinking behind it because they all played a major role at their old clubs with 3/40+ games.
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Post by haughmond on Jul 10, 2017 14:20:55 GMT 1
The mantra from MM's time as manager was that he was signing League One ready players. So the fan base embraced this philosophy and looked forward to El Abd, Lancashire, McGivern et al with all their experience in playing at this level or above driving us on to maybe mid- table security. Did' not happen. Paul Hurst is going the other way and signing younger, less experienced players who have now been given an opportunity to prove themselves. I firmly believe that PH knows the type of player he wants, and with the right coaching is confident that he can improve their game and help them adjust to League One standard. Who do you want playing for you. Old lags whose legs and ambition have gone but are only too willing to grasp a last pay- day , or fit , kean ambitious lads who know that this is a hell of a chance for them. As for signing foreign players, let's remember we had on loan a loan player from Stoke with a Barcelona pedigree and he just could not cope with the physicality or pace of League One football. Unless you are up to date with foreign football and know something about these players and the level they play at, why would you take a chance on signing foreign players. Of course most would come highly recommended by an agent, which is worth jack s**t.
Let's. wait and see how our new players perform pre- season before we become hyper critical. Remember the words of the pundit, A. Hanson, " you'll win nothing with kids" . Maybe this season we can prove how wrong he was, again.
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2017 14:25:33 GMT 1
Given we haven't seen any players leave that I'll miss (other than loanees), coupled with not having seen the new arrivals play, plus the fact that I'd expect more arrivals yet before the start of the season, I think it's more than a little early to speculate. What I am confident of, however, is that the team kicking off this season will be fitter, better organised and more motivated than the shambles of the last one. So until then my glass remains more than half full. Chill Adam, enjoy the summer! Really couldn't agree more with the fitness, match sharpness and much more organised. The Hibernian friendly before last season was a massive 'oh, s**t' moment.
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 14:33:50 GMT 1
He's 21 and done extremely more in his short career than the 2 strikers we've brought in put together. You're telling me if it's between Shankland or the 2 we've brought in you'd pick the ones that have come in? There's a number of players who've made the jump but the ones that stick out are nick anderton - Blackpool, sterling - Mansfield and Turgott - Stevenage, these are to name a few, so if one of these sort of players come to the club I could see the thinking behind it because they all played a major role at their old clubs with 3/40+ games. They were not the best 3 players in non-league last year. Ricky Miller - Dover scored 40 goals (MOVED TO PETERBOROUGH) Christian Doidge - FGR scored 25 goals You drop a league lower Danny Rowe - AFC Fylde a winger who scored 47 goals (MOVED TO IPSWICH) Dave Tarpey - Maidenhead scored 44 goals (IN TALKS WITH CHARLTON)
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Jul 10, 2017 14:34:00 GMT 1
Just shows how difficult being a manager and recruiting players at this level. Strikers who score regularly are gold dust and can command a huge fee and wages adn understandably supporters want them. But how often does it happen? Many strikers with great scoring records and will often command a big fee but can't jump the leagues, or replicate that form again. Clubs like Shrewsbury can't and don't want to risk it. Players who might get a few like John-Lewis or Gnouaha who are on short term contracts on free transfers are much more attractive. PH talks about desire and wanting to play, id much rather take a committed and determined player, than one with an average record who's just here to pick up a wage
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 14:38:48 GMT 1
when have I said we need old players through the door? I said with more experience, this can mean young players with experience. The crop of crap that has come through the door are lacking this, the players I have stated are all under 25 years of agent with far more experience in non league and higher level of football than the crop that's come through. Let's keep are fingers crossed peeps that we can get some talent through the door.
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 14:44:32 GMT 1
How can you judge that they are crap without seeing them play?
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 14:46:54 GMT 1
when have I said we need old players through the door? I said with more experience, this can mean young players with experience. The crop of cr@p that has come through the door are lacking this, the players I have stated are all under 25 years of agent with far more experience in non league and higher level of football than the crop that's come through. Let's keep are fingers crossed peeps that we can get some talent through the door. Also the players that you have mentioned don't have experience at our level ? And havent exactly been better examples either.
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 14:54:47 GMT 1
Why are all the good players have to be strikers? Granted Ricky Miller did quality and so did Danny Rowe but like you said command transfer fee like Rowe as he was under contract. Unless you follow non league you would find the 3 players I stated where predicted through the season to go on and move upwards. Would've been good to get Ollie Watkins from Leyton orient who's gone Lincoln, big strong No 9 which PH seems to like. You keep saying about players that we don't sign as not having the hunger and desire, PH has worked with 1 player out of the 5 weve signed so who's to say the other 4 weve signed haven't got the desire for a dog fight? It's all if, buts and maybe, but the fact is the experience of the players is a concern when we're competing in such a strong league 1 this season.
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 14:56:39 GMT 1
Sorry Ollie Palmer* 6"5 if we're looking at this level of player
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Post by adamkeane on Jul 10, 2017 14:58:19 GMT 1
Granted they don't have the expiernce at are level but they've proven themselves last season to be a player worthy of taking a chance on if we're looking in the non league. instead we look at a players who played 2 times in league 2 and another who played 16 times in conference, can you see my point?
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Post by razzledazzle on Jul 10, 2017 15:10:03 GMT 1
Knock it off now Adam, it's getting boring. You've had your say, now give the b*ggers a fair chance.
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trueblue89
Midland League Division Two
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you why your wrong
Posts: 191
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Post by trueblue89 on Jul 10, 2017 15:12:49 GMT 1
It could be a concern but at the same time you need to have trust in players that haven't had the experience to take it in there stride. Im not saying that all of the Non league best players have been strikers because in my opinion the best player was Alex Woodyard or Sean Raggett
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 15:20:53 GMT 1
Any views on the catering, toilet seats or 'match experience' Adam?
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Post by wakemanender on Jul 10, 2017 15:21:36 GMT 1
adamkeane for manager. Its a nobrainer. Why have we been lumbered with Paul Hurst. Roland track him down now.
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