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Post by shrewder on May 29, 2016 8:29:10 GMT 1
With so much conflicting information, personally I choose to vote for what I feel is best for me. At present I am very happy with my lot in life, so hence I will be voting to stay in. I know that could be considered a selfish attitude but once you go beyond that then making a decision is extremely difficult.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 8:36:16 GMT 1
Im still voting in, but only because no one has yet managed to come up with a good reason to change the status quo. Both sides are full of s**t as far as I'm concerned and seem intent on outdoing the other with the most outlandish "forecasts" supported by people who are irrelevant to me and my life.
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Post by franthetownfan on May 29, 2016 9:28:01 GMT 1
Im still voting in, but only because no one has yet managed to come up with a good reason to change the status quo. Both sides are full of s**t as far as I'm concerned and seem intent on outdoing the other with the most outlandish "forecasts" supported by people who are irrelevant to me and my life. Nobody has given me a good reason to change my vote of 'in' so far either. Both sides are exaggerating their points to try and sway people and there are lots of things being stirred in newspapers that I will not name, but people swear by them.
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Post by mrbunny on May 29, 2016 10:20:38 GMT 1
Im still voting in, but only because no one has yet managed to come up with a good reason to change the status quo. Both sides are full of s**t as far as I'm concerned and seem intent on outdoing the other with the most outlandish "forecasts" supported by people who are irrelevant to me and my life. I can't wait for one side to tell us we will have a zombie apocalypse if we don't vote their way. Neither side comes out of this campaign well, fear not facts are the way they are doing it and it is crap.
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Post by MartinB on May 29, 2016 10:36:32 GMT 1
Im still voting in, but only because no one has yet managed to come up with a good reason to change the status quo. Both sides are full of s**t as far as I'm concerned and seem intent on outdoing the other with the most outlandish "forecasts" supported by people who are irrelevant to me and my life. This is getting scary the number of times I am agreeing with you.
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tosalop
Shropshire County League
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Post by tosalop on May 29, 2016 10:58:03 GMT 1
This has been the worst few weeks for British politics ever. One good reason for voting no would be all the British MEPs having to find new jobs. A few less politician's in the world can only be a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 11:11:12 GMT 1
This has been the worst few weeks for British politics ever. Agree with that, the whole thing has been a complete embarrassment. Lord only knows what people around the world think when they look at this bastion of democracy, freedom and truth.
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Post by percy on May 29, 2016 11:28:16 GMT 1
With so much conflicting information, personally I choose to vote for what I feel is best for me. At present I am very happy with my lot in life, so hence I will be voting to stay in. I know that could be considered a selfish attitude but once you go beyond that then making a decision is extremely difficult. If Turkey join the EU - your lot in life will change - both sides agree that will be hugely negative for the UK. Cameron says he will veto their membership - can you see the other parties doing the same ? Personally I doubt it and there will not be a referendum on that one.
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Post by shrewder on May 29, 2016 11:36:40 GMT 1
With so much conflicting information, personally I choose to vote for what I feel is best for me. At present I am very happy with my lot in life, so hence I will be voting to stay in. I know that could be considered a selfish attitude but once you go beyond that then making a decision is extremely difficult. If Turkey join the EU - your lot in life will change - both sides agree that will be hugely negative for the UK. Cameron says he will veto their membership - can you see the other parties doing the same ? Personally I doubt it and there will not be a referendum on that one. Fair enough but my mind is made up. Think the older you get you begin to worry less about things farther down the line that may or may not happen.
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Post by venceremos on May 29, 2016 12:08:46 GMT 1
There is no current possibility of Turkey joining the EU.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 13:22:25 GMT 1
What the world needs today is more cooperation between nations not less. Pulling up the drawbridge is not going to help us. Nor is screwing over those of us who live or would like to live outside the uk purely due to unfounded fears of 80 million Turks suddenly deciding to up sticks and Move here.
Add to that one of the only facts that does seem to be indisputable which is that our economy and currency are going to suffer seriously at least over the short term and very possibly for longer, it's a no brainer for me.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 13:26:06 GMT 1
With so much conflicting information, personally I choose to vote for what I feel is best for me. At present I am very happy with my lot in life, so hence I will be voting to stay in. I know that could be considered a selfish attitude but once you go beyond that then making a decision is extremely difficult. If Turkey join the EU - your lot in life will change - both sides agree that will be hugely negative for the UK. Cameron says he will veto their membership - can you see the other parties doing the same ? Personally I doubt it and there will not be a referendum on that one. You couldn't see Corbyn vetoing their membership? Fortunately I'm fairly sure every country in the eu has a veto and I am pretty sure we can rely on their to be one leader prepared to veto at any one time. Greece maybe?! They've been applying for decades, and with their current government and human rights abuses etc I can't imagine them getting anywhere close to joining no matter how much we want their cooperation on refugees
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Post by mattmw on May 29, 2016 16:37:59 GMT 1
Polls are looking difficult to judge. Online polling seems to suggest a narrow leave win, but phone polls show comfortable remain win. Polling company that just about got the last election result right are suggesting leave win by 5%
Strangest ones are the betting odds with leave being offered at 11/2 in some places and remain as low as 1/6 and only 28% chance of leave winning
Think cheeky bet on leave winning might be on.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 19:42:03 GMT 1
I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning.
Varafoukis was on and he suggested that neither side of the campaign can predict what will happen to the economy, because a country leaving the EU is unprecedented.
How sensible.
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Post by lenny on May 29, 2016 21:13:19 GMT 1
I watched the Andrew Marr show this morning. Varafoukis was on and he suggested that neither side of the campaign can predict what will happen to the economy, because a country leaving the EU is unprecedented. How sensible. How outrageous. That's what happens when you ask so-called academics their opinions!
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Post by champagneprince on May 29, 2016 21:43:19 GMT 1
The problem with the EU is that it isn't 'equal'. It's a no brainer that wherever life is better/easier then this is where the people will go. If it equals out then people tend to stay put.
There is an argument that a union eventually does this, but it takes time. The question is 'are those of us in the privileged part of the union willing to be patient whilst everything evens out?'
The downside is that 40+ years later we still have an unequal union and this shouldn't be so as far as I'm concerned. There shouldn't be a better country to go and live, it should all be the same, with the only difference being the climate which of course we can't do anything about!
A union is (and always will be) one for all and all for one. We get richer together, we get poorer together and if we aren't willing to accept that then we should be voting out.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 22:20:35 GMT 1
The problem with the EU is that it isn't 'equal'. It's a no brainer that wherever life is better/easier then this is where the people will go. If it equals out then people tend to stay put. Take your point but that's assuming that the only reason anyone chooses where to live is economic. If that was the case the whole population of the Eastern countries that have already joined would have upped sticks already and come here, and we would all f*ck off and live in Sweden! The vast majority of people in most european countries would never even dream of emigrating for huge variety of reasons.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 29, 2016 23:05:44 GMT 1
What I am particularly enjoying about the debate, is that posh boy's Dave and Gideon's arses are on fire.
Vote leave, and get the ****er's the sack.
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Post by mattmw on May 30, 2016 8:22:09 GMT 1
What I am particularly enjoying about the debate, is that posh boy's Dave and Gideon's arses are on fire.
Vote leave, and get the ****er's the sack. And replace them with Gove and Johnson. It's like the worst game of snog, marry avoid ever
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Post by jamo on May 30, 2016 8:22:30 GMT 1
What I am particularly enjoying about the debate, is that posh boy's Dave and Gideon's arses are on fire.
Vote leave, and get the ******'s the sack. Whatever the result I think Cameron is in a fair bit of trouble with his parliamentary party. However in this debate only you seem to be suggesting we should believe Johnson and Gove over Cameron and Osbourne. Tough one that !
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 9:51:59 GMT 1
What I am particularly enjoying about the debate, is that posh boy's Dave and Gideon's arses are on fire.
Vote leave, and get the ******'s the sack. Whatever the result I think Cameron is in a fair bit of trouble with his parliamentary party. [/p] Without a shadow of a doubt. The Conservatives will suffer long term as well.
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tosalop
Shropshire County League
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Post by tosalop on May 30, 2016 10:08:23 GMT 1
The Labour parties notable absence in what is a massive event for the UK is as bad as the Tories constant backstabbing/misinformation.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 30, 2016 12:06:34 GMT 1
If for no other reason, just look at the procession of b3ll3nds in favour of an OUT vote - IDS, UKIP, Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, George Galloway, the loopier end of the Tory Party, Michael Gove, Owen Paterson, Boris Johnson, the EDL - a mixture of cranks, nutjobs and (in Johnson's case) careerists. All arguments put forward by outers seem to come down to "we don't like immigrants" or a desire to turn the clock back 50 years - neither of which a Brexit vote has the ability to change. On the IN side you've got every living current and former Prime Minister, every credible independent economic institution, the 3 largest trade unions, Barack Obama, the moderate wing of the Tory Party, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP - and a near consensus that an OUT vote would lead to a recession (even most OUTERS concede this - all that seems to be at issue is how long the adverse economic effects will last). I'm in all the way and can't believe the polls are as close as they are.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 30, 2016 13:17:41 GMT 1
I'm in all the way and can't believe the polls are as close as they are. Having read your post that hardly comes as a surprise...
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Post by R6ix on May 30, 2016 21:53:09 GMT 1
half a million in every year does nowt to encourage me to vote stay? once we vote stay thats it, all the s**t u can eat and more
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 30, 2016 22:56:04 GMT 1
half a million in every year does nowt to encourage me to vote stay? once we vote stay thats it, all the s**t u can eat and more
Too true. If we vote to stay, everything will stay unchanged? You bet yer boots it won't. You will do what yer told by the Germans and their lap dogs the French.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 8:06:51 GMT 1
half a million in every year does nowt to encourage me to vote stay? once we vote stay thats it, all the s**t u can eat and more
Too true. If we vote to stay, everything will stay unchanged? You bet yer boots it won't. You will do what yer told by the Germans and their lap dogs the French.
You'll just be told what to do by the Chinese, USA, and the multi-nationals. Don't forget though the UK vetoed the tariff on Chinese steel entering the European zone. Look how well that turned out for South Wales.
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Post by Mr Cornflakes on May 31, 2016 13:37:05 GMT 1
It's the cost of lasagne that's keeping me away from games. League 1 football or a tasty Italian pasta-based treat? For me there's no competition!
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Post by percy on May 31, 2016 13:53:46 GMT 1
On the IN side you've got every living current and former Prime Minister, every credible independent economic institution, the 3 largest trade unions, Barack Obama, the moderate wing of the Tory Party, Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP - and a near consensus that an OUT vote would lead to a recession (even most OUTERS concede this - all that seems to be at issue is how long the adverse economic effects will last). I'm in all the way and can't believe the polls are as close as they are. A bit like much of the reporting on the referendum - EVERY living prime minister is only 4 people - Brown, Blair, Major and the current numpty Cameron. The most technically competent chancellor of recent times Nigel Lawson has the opposite view.
Every credible institution - not exactly sure what you mean by this but for my company (a major component of the FTSE and leading financial service company) we have an official view based on the fear of the impact upon the EU not the impact on the UK. If we were only interested in the UK we would have a different view.
Trade Unions - clearly in their interest as they can call upon their EU brothers (who are much more powerful) to bring in some genuinely loopy rules - like being forced to allow staff to use 10% of their computer hard-disk for personal purposes and not allowing the company to see what they are doing in that space (believe me it is coming and is already in place in France).
For "Moderate wings" read not wishing to rock the boat because we all know that the vote will be to remain.
The economic scenarios show an impact on sterling that will reduce buying power but the real impact is from a recession in the EU and protracted problems with breakup and inability to support the ratings/debt of Greece et al.
You also mention that staying in vs leaving has no impact on migration - simply not true. Brexit will allow more selectivity on who can reside and work in the country (Switzerland achieve this even with open borders simply by being outside the EU and so being able to refuse work permits and control who can buy a property). The golden visa schemes in Portugal and Spain mean that anybody from anywhere in the world with €500k can get EU citizenship and so live in the UK.
You don't mention trade deals - there was an interesting leaked email from the Treasury saying that being part of the EU trade deals was costing us more than £2bn each year - the story was on the news wire but not on the main news in the UK.
The facts don't matter - the UK leaving the EU will have a negative political and economic impact on the EU which will tip both countries and banks (principally Deutsche Bank) over the edge. Too big to fail so the result is known already - we will remain - place your bets now, I'm amazed that there is even a market.
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Post by mattmw on May 31, 2016 14:25:51 GMT 1
Have to say most of the government bodies I work with aren't planning for a exit come June 24th which kind of backs up Percy's thoughts.
Unless something big happens between now and the 23rd looks very much like remain will win. In fact with postal voting many people will vote well before 23rd so may already be done and dusted
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