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Post by mattmw on Apr 21, 2016 23:06:10 GMT 1
Out. Can't see one legitimate argument for staying in, every one I read is pure guesswork based on dodgy Daves and Osbournes "stats". Think the trouble I'm finding is it's an equal element of guess work from the leave campaign. No one has ever left the EU before so there is no easy to follow guide and as such the remain campaign will always be able to claim staying in as the safe option. I'd like to see the leave campaign produce a timeline for leaving; what the key tasks will be to give the UK the best exit strategy, and how we will negotiate those deals This week Gove put forward a strategy which involves increasing immigration and reducing red tape as a means of reducing the economic impacts of leaving the EU. It's is one viable way forward, but not one a lot of people would support More modelling of the leave process would help their campaign rather than just rely on rather bland "Britain is great" statements
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Post by Bordershrew on Apr 21, 2016 23:19:06 GMT 1
Out. Can't see one legitimate argument for staying in, every one I read is pure guesswork based on dodgy Daves and Osbournes "stats". Think the trouble I'm finding is it's an equal element of guess work from the leave campaign. No one has ever left the EU before so there is no easy to follow guide and as such the remain campaign will always be able to claim staying in as the safe option. I'd like to see the leave campaign produce a timeline for leaving; what the key tasks will be to give the UK the best exit strategy, and how we will negotiate those deals This week Gove put forward a strategy which involves increasing immigration and reducing red tape as a means of reducing the economic impacts of leaving the EU. It's is one viable way forward, but not one a lot of people would support More modelling of the leave process would help their campaign rather than just rely on rather bland "Britain is great" statements Agree with that Matt, they certainly need to set out an exit plan to explain to the public what would happen with a vote to leave. There seems to be a lot of petty scaremongering from both sides as well I've noticed, not sure that helps either cause! I don't like what the EU has become, and don't think it's healthy for any of the member states being part of the "global power" it's trying to be, even it's auditors have not signed the EU books off for 19 years, whether this is mismanagement, fraud who knows? If they was a business they'd have investigated and shut down by now.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 21, 2016 23:56:31 GMT 1
The EU not having audited it's accounts is a bit of a myth. Accounts have been audited for the last 10 years and approved, and in a slightly different form for 20 years.
The confusion comes from what's called the errors rate, which annually is between 2% and 5% of the accounts. This comes from grant recipients being over paid or underpaid leading to gaps in the accounts and gaps in expenditure v income not being clear, but likely to a mix of admin error, inflation issues and in some part fraud
But to put it in context the USA audits show up round about a 5% error rate, and in the UK the welfare budget has a 7% error rate
So while the EU accounts aren't perfect they aren't much different to any other western nations annual returns
My main concern with the size of the EU is more to do with the electorate being able to call to account such a large organisation, so people are very divorced from the decision making process and don't feel empowered to influence decision making
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 5:33:09 GMT 1
As I have said previously I am definitely inthe IN camp . Having read arguments for and against in most of the papers I really feel that my families future is more secure within the EU . One other thing that makes me think that this is the right decision - Gove . As a rule of thumb anything which Gove and his obnoxious wife are in favour off is good enough reason to do the opposite . Throw inthe fool Boris and it's a no brainier .
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 22, 2016 10:24:24 GMT 1
As I have said previously I am definitely inthe IN camp . Having read arguments for and against in most of the papers I really feel that my families future is more secure within the EU . One other thing that makes me think that this is the right decision - Gove . As a rule of thumb anything which Gove and his obnoxious wife are in favour off is good enough reason to do the opposite . Throw inthe fool Boris and it's a no brainier . Surely Gove can't have a wife .
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 22, 2016 10:29:02 GMT 1
In. 100%. The EEC is not perfect, sometimes quite wildly so, but if you genuinely believe that ( and there is no reason to dis- believe you ) then the prospect of this conservative government following our exit providing a true and genuine guardianship of those and other necessary services scares me witless. It won't happen and in fact will get considerably worse. I also really hate the rampant nationalism that the OUT campaign appear to be clinging to. I'm British by birth but European by inclination and definitely see the future prosperity and safety of my children and grandchildren as being part of a greater Europe
Then we will have to agree to disagree. One size fits all doesn't work. Meanwhile, while you Shrewsbury folk enjoy the council chucking millions on the worst theatre it's ever been my dubious pleasure to visit, we're struggling to save our library and the Sparc centre is under threat, because of the cuts. The swimming pool will close, even though local residents raised the money for it in the first place. I'll chuck a few quid in, because I believe in defending our services, rather than paying the busy doing nothing brigade in Brussels. Any road up, it's my last word on the subject on here.
If I see you in the powerleagues, I'll buy you half, that's all we can afford down here in the South of the county.
www.jollypages.co.uk/castlenews/2012/07/sparc-timetable-slashed-as-shropshire-targets-bishops-castle-for-cuts/
This should be directed at those who voted in the current Government of the U.K. I would suggest that the majority of posters on here do not fall into that category. An exit would still leave the wasters in control in Westminster.
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Post by Uncle_Monkey on Apr 22, 2016 10:34:46 GMT 1
Not quite sure why you are lobbing these largely irrelevant things in.
Why is it irrelevant? He's one of the major figures advocating to remain.
Well, because you’re conflating two separate issues a) the speed at which the deficit is (or isn’t) being reduced, and b) whether staying in or out of the EU is a good thing for the UK. Much like you are mixing up library closures with the EU. I hear the EU are to blame for Vassell's penalty miss on Saturday too! Just because slimy George was wrong about one thing, it doesn’t follow that he is wrong about absolutely everything else, including Brexit.
So you may be saying that the judgement of those people who support Remain is suspect, based on one example of George Osborne? Which is why I mentioned some of the eminent people who support Britain Stronger in Europe. I am quite happy if you want to compare the key supporters of Brexit, like Nige and Boris, and contrast them with the key supporters of Remain, not just Georgey-boy and "Call me Dave". We can rustle up a list if you like. But you know the Brexit list is going to contain an awfully high proportion of swivel-eyed loons.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 22, 2016 11:22:23 GMT 1
Hmm, I am still undecided but there are some good points being made.
On the one side you have the EU themselves, leadership of every political party except UKIP, the trade unions, the IMF, FTSE chief executives and even Obama. Not all my cup of tea but the momentum is compelling.
In the other camp you have Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, John Redwood and the owners of the Daily Express and Rupert Murdoch. Basically complete scumbags, to a man, the kind who would sell their own grandmother for a quick buck. Why is Brexit in their favour so much?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 13:00:02 GMT 1
I hear the EU are to blame for Vassell's penalty miss on Saturday too!
Bloody foreigners!!!!
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Post by thesensationaljt on Apr 22, 2016 17:20:58 GMT 1
I see Romania has been expelled from the Eurovision contest after not paying debts going back to 2007.
A spokesperson for the Romanian state broadcaster said, "Bing Bang A Bing Bong".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 18:05:26 GMT 1
As I have said previously I am definitely inthe IN camp . Having read arguments for and against in most of the papers I really feel that my families future is more secure within the EU . One other thing that makes me think that this is the right decision - Gove . As a rule of thumb anything which Gove and his obnoxious wife are in favour off is good enough reason to do the opposite . Throw inthe fool Boris and it's a no brainier . Surely Gove can't have a wife . He surely has . The fragrant Sarah Vine who I think is still a columnist at The Times. Michael and Sarah have two children . I know, it takes some believing doesn't it .
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Post by neilsalop on Apr 22, 2016 20:18:29 GMT 1
I have spent the greatest part of my life resenting the fact that my parents generation voted to join the Common Market/ EEC/ EU and upto a year ago I would have jumped at the chance to leave (even my signature on B&A used to state 'Salopian 1st, English 2nd, British 3rd, European NEVER). However since May last year and seeing how badly the Tories are looking to screw the working classes when they have a free hand, I became afraid. I also became better educated about how the world works, more motivated to protect my class; more political if you like. I can see now how the EU will put the brakes on the Tories if they try to take away my hard earned rights and privileges (the ones my parents generation began the fight for, my generation continues and my kids generation will hopefully keep fighting for), minimum wage, sick pay, maternity pay, holidays, breaks at work, the 40 hour week (for most), the welfare state, the NHS, legal protection, etc. These weren't given to us by the UK parliament or the EU, but were taken from the corporations, the same corporations that have the Conservative party in their pockets and that the Tories owe favours to. Get us out of Europe and those corporations will be calling in those favours.
The most damning statement I have read was from someone interviewing Rupert Murdoch. When asked why he was in favour of leaving the EU he replied ''When I go to Downing Street they do as I ask, when I go Brussels they ignore me''. If that doesn't tell you what the corporations and the 1% want then I don't know what will.
In 100% and it will take a miracle to change my mind.
Just to add, speaking to a friend the other day he told me that nearly everyone he speaks to that intends to vote out comes up with reason, immigration. I'm really pleased to see that on here we have very few, if any that have been sucked in by this argument. Unless of course they have but are afraid of being labelled racist on here and have looked for other reasons to vote out.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 22, 2016 21:11:25 GMT 1
I'm on the side of schools, NHS and libraries, so out for me.
In. 100%. The EEC is not perfect, sometimes quite wildly so, but if you genuinely believe that ( and there is no reason to dis- believe you ) then the prospect of this conservative government following our exit providing a true and genuine guardianship of those and other necessary services scares me witless. It won't happen and in fact will get considerably worse. This is pretty much where I am on the whole thing at the moment. I know some are making the argument that an 'out' vote will trigger a crisis in the Tory party, hasten the departure of Cameron and probably spell the end of the road for Osborne, too. But, tempting a prospect as that prospect may be, sadly it could be a case of 'out of the frying pan' with Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and other assoreted right wing nutters running the show for a few years. Whether that scenrio could give Corbyn's Labour a better chance of victory at the next general election is debatable. I'll probably be voting 'in' out of pragmatism/lesser evilism/damage limitation rather than idealism.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 22:03:25 GMT 1
Personally I'm undecided but I do know the handling of this referendum has been a disgrace.
Firstly the government condescending leaflet telling us to vote in with a shameless piece of propaganda to all the scare mongering antics from both sides.
All I want to see is straight unbiased facts on the subject without all the politcalisations (is that a word lol) so I can make a properly informed decision.
That's not too much to ask but unfortunately it appears it is.
Bull#### the whole thing.
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Post by mwhitshrew on Apr 23, 2016 8:12:36 GMT 1
I do hope people see through the scare mongering of the government. I think Obama has done a better job than the brexit campaigners frankly in galvanising opinion, although of course the US would never accept the rules we have, to from the unelected bunch in Brussels. Okay we may have a slight downturn but most of this is already factured in, the sooner we get away and nogotiate new trade agreements the better, remember we buy more from the EU than we sell, they need us more! The cost of propping up the EU is very disturbing and for sure if we come out there will be a rush to follow, before the whole thing including the Euro collapses. I will add that I earn my turnover selling European branded products.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 23, 2016 8:51:24 GMT 1
I do hope people see through the scare mongering of the government. I think Obama has done a better job than the brexit campaigners frankly in galvanising opinion, although of course the US would never accept the rules we have, to from the unelected bunch in Brussels. Okay we may have a slight downturn but most of this is already factured in, the sooner we get away and nogotiate new trade agreements the better, remember we buy more from the EU than we sell, they need us more! The cost of propping up the EU is very disturbing and for sure if we come out there will be a rush to follow, before the whole thing including the Euro collapses. I will add that I earn my turnover selling European branded products. Totally agree but what makes me worry is the lack of a clear timetable from the leave campaign on how, when and who will negotiate those trade deals There is no doubt in my mind the UK is strong enough to trade outside Europe, but at the moment there seems no clear plan on how that would work. Gove pointed at a strategy earlier this week which seemed to point at increasing immigration and reducing employment benefits along the Switzerland model as a means of negotiation better trade deals, which is a start but needs much more flesh on the bone to make it a real prospect It will always be easier for the current situation to be put forward as the safe option, so it's upto the leave campaign to start countering that with clearly thought out timetables for change
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Post by Jonah on Apr 23, 2016 10:19:36 GMT 1
Public libraries, swimming pools and museums aren't shutting in Europe but they are in this country through political ideology and not finances, that's what scares the hell out of me if we exit.
I'm sorry, but I'm not answering you.
Just out of interest how does everyone see our future in Europe if the vote is to remain. Easy for the doom and gloom merchants to comment on what apparently will happen if we come out but just what is our future if we remain? IMO we have very little say today and with further expansion we will have even less. Can Europe really afford the likes of Albania,Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia and That great European nation Turkey.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 23, 2016 10:58:50 GMT 1
I'm sorry, but I'm not answering you.
Just out of interest how does everyone see our future in Europe if the vote is to remain. Easy for the doom and gloom merchants to comment on what apparently will happen if we come out but just what is our future if we remain? IMO we have very little say today and with further expansion we will have even less. Can Europe really afford the likes of Albania,Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia and That great European nation Turkey. Both Blair and Mandelson have been paid large sums of money by Serbia in order to advise them as to how best to fast track their application to join the E.U. Bit ironic that bearing in mind that Blair was involved in bombing them not so long ago. His advice to Serbia was probably to hand over their war criminals. Hmmm.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 12:53:42 GMT 1
I'm sorry, but I'm not answering you.
Just out of interest how does everyone see our future in Europe if the vote is to remain. Easy for the doom and gloom merchants to comment on what apparently will happen if we come out but just what is our future if we remain? IMO we have very little say today and with further expansion we will have even less. Can Europe really afford the likes of Albania,Macedonia,Montenegro,Serbia and That great European nation Turkey. I imagine very little will change for us ordinary folk, but of course the only people who can answer your question will be our kids and grand kids. For me this referendum isn't about now, but 50 years down the line.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 12:58:07 GMT 1
I have spent the greatest part of my life resenting the fact that my parents generation voted to join the Common Market/ EEC/ EU and upto a year ago I would have jumped at the chance to leave (even my signature on B&A used to state 'Salopian 1st, English 2nd, British 3rd, European NEVER). However since May last year and seeing how badly the Tories are looking to screw the working classes when they have a free hand, I became afraid. I also became better educated about how the world works, more motivated to protect my class; more political if you like. I can see now how the EU will put the brakes on the Tories if they try to take away my hard earned rights and privileges (the ones my parents generation began the fight for, my generation continues and my kids generation will hopefully keep fighting for), minimum wage, sick pay, maternity pay, holidays, breaks at work, the 40 hour week (for most), the welfare state, the NHS, legal protection, etc. These weren't given to us by the UK parliament or the EU, but were taken from the corporations, the same corporations that have the Conservative party in their pockets and that the Tories owe favours to. Get us out of Europe and those corporations will be calling in those favours. The most damning statement I have read was from someone interviewing Rupert Murdoch. When asked why he was in favour of leaving the EU he replied ''When I go to Downing Street they do as I ask, when I go Brussels they ignore me''. If that doesn't tell you what the corporations and the 1% want then I don't know what will. In 100% and it will take a miracle to change my mind. Just to add, speaking to a friend the other day he told me that nearly everyone he speaks to that intends to vote out comes up with reason, immigration. I'm really pleased to see that on here we have very few, if any that have been sucked in by this argument. Unless of course they have but are afraid of being labelled racist on here and have looked for other reasons to vote out. Good points and I'd add that 800 odd years after the Magna Carta we're still waiting for a UK bill of rights. Luckily the EU has a Human Rights law that protects us from the excesses of the state.
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Post by lenny on Apr 23, 2016 13:27:27 GMT 1
I have spent the greatest part of my life resenting the fact that my parents generation voted to join the Common Market/ EEC/ EU and upto a year ago I would have jumped at the chance to leave (even my signature on B&A used to state 'Salopian 1st, English 2nd, British 3rd, European NEVER). However since May last year and seeing how badly the Tories are looking to screw the working classes when they have a free hand, I became afraid. I also became better educated about how the world works, more motivated to protect my class; more political if you like. I can see now how the EU will put the brakes on the Tories if they try to take away my hard earned rights and privileges (the ones my parents generation began the fight for, my generation continues and my kids generation will hopefully keep fighting for), minimum wage, sick pay, maternity pay, holidays, breaks at work, the 40 hour week (for most), the welfare state, the NHS, legal protection, etc. These weren't given to us by the UK parliament or the EU, but were taken from the corporations, the same corporations that have the Conservative party in their pockets and that the Tories owe favours to. Get us out of Europe and those corporations will be calling in those favours. The most damning statement I have read was from someone interviewing Rupert Murdoch. When asked why he was in favour of leaving the EU he replied ''When I go to Downing Street they do as I ask, when I go Brussels they ignore me''. If that doesn't tell you what the corporations and the 1% want then I don't know what will. In 100% and it will take a miracle to change my mind. Just to add, speaking to a friend the other day he told me that nearly everyone he speaks to that intends to vote out comes up with reason, immigration. I'm really pleased to see that on here we have very few, if any that have been sucked in by this argument. Unless of course they have but are afraid of being labelled racist on here and have looked for other reasons to vote out. Good post. I've highlighted the bit in the last paragraph because that was also my initial experience - and it's worrying that so many still have that view - but recently I've been more familiar with the £350m fallacy that a national statistical agency has told the Leave campaign off for continuing to insinuate. I'd also like to say that the debate on this board around this subject has largely been pretty good (although the EU being blamed for Government austerity is a new one!). Sadly the official debate seems, to me, to have been very one-sided. The leave campaign has been pretty haplessly organised and every time the remain side comes up with any argument for staying in, they've simply tried targeting the person, shouting "WRONG" and sticking their fingers in their ears. Gove, finally, has come up with the beginnings of a plan (albeit one that I'm sure that many wanting to leave won't find appealing at all) but there was one bloke who showed his woeful lack of expertise regarding economic forecasting when he said "Osborne and the treasury can't predict 14 months in the future let alone 14 years", and now the latest laughable suggestion is that Obama, the most powerful man in the world, is actually a puppet for Cameron and Osborne who says what they tell him to. Rather than focus on the very real arguments that there are to have around leaving and staying in, they've failed to present any plan - credible or otherwise - for leaving and focussed on a £9m spend on leaflets (which is a tiny fraction of the cost of staging this referendum) which I can't really see the problem with. Obviously aspects of the remain campaign have been pretty weak. Osborne's economic predictions are based on a tedious regression (albeit the type that looks very similar to most of my econometrics course) but he's failed to build in a margin for error or speculative forecasting deviations for graphs or anything. However, it's a whole lot better than the other side's economic predictions - absolutely diddly squat - and instead they focus on a handful of buzzwords and empty rhetoric; talking of scaremongering in a week when being in the EU has been compared to a hostage situation and the parallels have been implied between the EU and Nazi Germany (not the wisest choice of insinuation and I suspect he needs to go back and study his history if he even thinks it was a good analogy). It may be that the economic outcome is uncertain either way if we leave, but that doesn't mean that the weight of evidence should be disregarded. I'm fortunate enough to be surrounded by people far more intelligent and educated than me whose brains I can pick on the issue and I've not heard a single one of my lecturers suggest they think leaving would be a good thing. We'd almost certainly see an unwanted drop in the pound while the terms of departure were negotiated (it's already dropped with the lingering uncertainty) and the effect on the financial markets (which our economy depends upon) and global economy could be significant. Of course it could, equally, be negligible - but that's exactly the problem. Nobody can guarantee a better economic situation out of the EU and most academics think the balance of probability lies the other way. Is it worth that risk? From a more personal, selfish point of view, I'll be popping along to a debate hosted by our Vice-Chancellor in a couple of weeks with the Wetherspoons bloke (I assume he lives down here after popping up on QT the other night) and a couple of other people. The VC has already sent an email making sure we're all registered to vote and outlining why he thinks it's better for us staying in - the access to funding and high volume of international lecturers and students (as an international University, I think we have around 40% of our academics who are EU citizens from countries other than Britain) are things that we would struggle to maintain and, having built up to be a global top 100 Uni on the back of the strong international links (which I'll be taking advantage of next year with an exchange to Copenhagen) he says it would make continued progression harder and more expensive. I'm sure that goes for plenty of other education institutes, too. So, in favour of education, the economy and myself (for the erasmus grant I'll be receiving to fund living abroad) I remain firmly in.
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Post by sussexshrew on Apr 23, 2016 14:06:13 GMT 1
I still can't decide.
The Expansion to the East of the EU is my biggest gripe. But as some have said, the thought of being bedfellows with the likes of Gove is almost too horrible to contemplate.
Yes... and Gove's wife! When he was the "unofficial" editor of the times, she wrote the leaders, and the promise made when News International bought them up, that they would remain independent from the rest of the Murdoch empire, blew away like smoke upon the wind.
And he was almost Blair's spokesperson for the Iraq war, appearing on almost every TV debate or Newsnight discussion, peddling Blair's lies. And when the Times quite clearly, and with Gove and Mrs Gove pulling the strings, not surprisingly backed Blair to the hilt, several of their top journalists, including a former editor, were driven away by the Gove/Murdoch/Blair unholy trinity.
So Neilsalop's quote about Murdoch's ability to manipulate Downing Street, even though that manipulation is known, was nevertheless chilling.
And if Brexit succeeds, what next? Will Gove make a play to be next Tory leader... aaaggghhh!
I see other club's fans feel the same. On Brighton's North Stand Chat, one poster... perhaps not quite as erudite as the posts on this thread... said that Gove has "one of those faces you want to punch, and never stop punching".
Obviously from a man from the wrong, rougher end of Brighton (certainly not from Hove).. and not what we would like to read in the far more refined and thoughtful pages of B&A ... but it has a frightening ring of truth about it.
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Apr 23, 2016 15:19:27 GMT 1
Between me and the ballout box!!
Nowt to do with immigration, rather believe too many decisions made in Brussels.
I accept nobody knows for sure what will happen - but that was exactly the same when we opted in (I was too young to vote then).
I do however believe EVERYBODY should HAVE to vote if registered.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 12:19:47 GMT 1
Between me and the ballout box!! Nowt to do with immigration, rather believe too many decisions made in Brussels. I accept nobody knows for sure what will happen - but that was exactly the same when we opted in (I was too young to vote then). I do however believe EVERYBODY should HAVE to vote if registered. Can't agree with that last statement. If you're not interested enough to make the effort to vote, it suggests you also won't have been interested enough to read up on subject etc and probably will have even less of a clue than the rest of us what you are actually voting for. The last thing we need is more people voting who aren't interested and will probably just do what the red tops or their mates down pub tell them do.
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Apr 25, 2016 19:11:35 GMT 1
I do however believe EVERYBODY should HAVE to vote if registered. Can't agree with that last statement. If you're not interested enough to make the effort to vote, it suggests you also won't have been interested enough to read up on subject etc and probably will have even less of a clue than the rest of us what you are actually voting for. The last thing we need is more people voting who aren't interested and will probably just do what the red tops or their mates down pub tell them do. In which case they should not register to vote!! Simples
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Post by percy on May 3, 2016 12:48:25 GMT 1
Last week a group of economists published a paper showing that Osbourne's "you'll be worse off if we are out" was absolute rubbish. Their views were far closer to that of my company and the studies I've seen from our banking peers. My wife said it was on "Breakfast" but it had disappeared from the news by the evening unlike Osbourne's projections which were headline news for 2 days straight.
I'm beginning to sense a bit of selective reporting here to make sure that "the right side" wins.
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Post by percy on May 3, 2016 12:54:06 GMT 1
I'm not sure yet how the "in" camp will spin this one positively - maybe it won't get on the 6 o'clock news ? www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36188936The debate on immigration quickly turns to the out side being called racist or inhumane NIMBIES who want only the right sort to be let in. Our projections show that selective immigration + up to 5x the current "humantitarian" intake have a more positive impact on the economy compared to the current EU open door (which would switch from positive to a negative impact if Turkey comes in); selective immigration alone is significantly more beneficial to the economy than the EU option.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 13:11:24 GMT 1
Three opinion polls published over the weekend show that it's neck and neck at the moment. Mirrors the current B&A poll.
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Post by mattmw on May 3, 2016 14:01:29 GMT 1
Last week a group of economists published a paper showing that Osbourne's "you'll be worse off if we are out" was absolute rubbish. Their views were far closer to that of my company and the studies I've seen from our banking peers. My wife said it was on "Breakfast" but it had disappeared from the news by the evening unlike Osbourne's projections which were headline news for 2 days straight. I'm beginning to sense a bit of selective reporting here to make sure that "the right side" wins. I got a bit confused about that report too - seemed to be about 6 senior economists who published the report, but using different data to the treasury report. I got the impression this new report was looking at the business sector more specifically and placed greater emphasis on saving made by not having to follow so much red tape? Is that right or have I got that wrong Bookies moving towards favouring the remain camp this week now put that at about 68% chance as opposed to 59% a few weeks ago
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:20:13 GMT 1
Seen a lot of people complaining EU is undemocratic, yet when given the chance to vote they and our town elect a simpleton in the pay of the Saudis. Give me the EU council any day over that moron
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