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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 13:33:16 GMT 1
Looks to be an excellent batting strip at the Oval for the 2nd ODI.
NZ off to a flyer, 50 up without loss off just 6 overs in the first powerplay.
Chris Jordan is taking some early punishment.
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 16:37:09 GMT 1
Wood for Jordan I imagine with that injury. Another high scoring game, the oval wicket looks incredibly flat. 2 games with no swing in England is incredible!
I have to say as enjoyable as it was to finally see England catch up with the rest of the world, watching s contest so uneven between bat and ball is not my cup of tea. Just like in a test match where 350 plays 350, a one day game nowadays needs wickets where par is about 325, not 380.
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Post by lenny on Jun 12, 2015 16:50:15 GMT 1
Yeah. Massive advantage batting first when you have flat tracks like this. Still some quite erratic bowling - far too many wides/no balls and Jordan strayed off the right line and length fairly often, which against such a strong side is always going to be punished.
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 20:04:45 GMT 1
Great effort... 308-7 off 40 overs, shame we just lost wickets at such key moments. Think the rain is about to wash this one out...
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 20:13:13 GMT 1
19 off 2 overs, the sun is back out, who knows!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:15:28 GMT 1
I think we've lost one wicket too much here but considering we're chasing 400 this is a cracking effort.
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 20:20:20 GMT 1
I think we've lost one wicket too much here but considering we're chasing 400 this is a cracking effort. Throughout the chase we've always been 1 wicket down more than we should have been. Few frustrating wickets to lose but that's one of the few downsides of the aggressive cricket we're playing.
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 20:24:20 GMT 1
Boooo what a shame
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Post by vanner on Jun 12, 2015 20:52:42 GMT 1
Duckworth Lewis is dated...
it's gone from 54 runs needed off 37 balls pre-rain, to 34 needed off 13 post-rain... Shambles
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:56:24 GMT 1
We've been shafted there.
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Post by shrewblue on Jun 12, 2015 23:51:05 GMT 1
Great effort well done NZ but that D?L method does seem a little out of kilter the way it diminishes so many balls to get the runs needed..but is presumably a mathematical formula
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Post by northwestman on Jun 12, 2015 23:56:10 GMT 1
I really don't understand the logic of playing Billings with Buttler already in the side.
Taylor seems to have upset someone. He's never been given a chance to establish himself.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 13, 2015 0:36:07 GMT 1
Sometimes the DL method comes up with some pretty stupid targets - in this case a tough but achieveable target pre-rain became a virtually impossible one post-rain. However, it is more of an issue for me that they fart around and waste 20 minutes after the covers are off, and that they have rigid cut-off times for floodlit matches that could easily continue. Had they got cracking 5 or 10 minutes after the covers came off they could have finished the full 50 overs with just an added 10 or 15 minutes play. Nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 8:01:24 GMT 1
Sometimes the DL method comes up with some pretty stupid targets - in this case a tough but achieveable target pre-rain became a virtually impossible one post-rain. However, it is more of an issue for me that they fart around and waste 20 minutes after the covers are off, and that they have rigid cut-off times for floodlit matches that could easily continue. Had they got cracking 5 or 10 minutes after the covers came off they could have finished the full 50 overs with just an added 10 or 15 minutes play. Nonsense. I think the cut off time is a legal requirement due to residents in the area not wanting to be bothered by 20,000 fans leaving late which is probably fair enough. The 9:10 restart however was daft, they could have been back out and playing much sooner. Even on a breathtaking day of play cricket manages to shoot itself in the foot again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 8:12:20 GMT 1
From feeling very disconnected and disillusioned with our national cricket team, I am suddenly excited by the current squad and set-up. Hopefully we can at least put up a fight against the Aussies this time, but I'd happily watch New Zealand/England games all through the Summer.... two exciting sides who are helping to enhance the reputation of the game in many ways
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2015 8:17:13 GMT 1
Sometimes the DL method comes up with some pretty stupid targets - in this case a tough but achieveable target pre-rain became a virtually impossible one post-rain. However, it is more of an issue for me that they fart around and waste 20 minutes after the covers are off, and that they have rigid cut-off times for floodlit matches that could easily continue. Had they got cracking 5 or 10 minutes after the covers came off they could have finished the full 50 overs with just an added 10 or 15 minutes play. Nonsense. I think the cut off time is a legal requirement due to residents in the area not wanting to be bothered by 20,000 fans leaving late which is probably fair enough. The 9:10 restart however was daft, they could have been back out and playing much sooner. Even on a breathtaking day of play cricket manages to shoot itself in the foot again. Have you seen the general standard of property near to the Oval? Last time I visited the place there were a number of ghetto blasters emanating from the nearby flats. It's definitely not St John's Wood! But having said that, I'm sure that there are good reasons for having a cut off point, and not so good reasons for the delay in re-starting the game.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2015 8:59:54 GMT 1
I really don't understand the logic of playing Billings with Buttler already in the side. Taylor seems to have upset someone. He's never been given a chance to establish himself. Billing's scores this season have been - 20, 6 FC 28, 11 FC 0, 12* FC 26, 37 FC 46 T20 16 FC 15 T20 35, 0 FC 11 T20 5 T20 24 T20 26 T20 3 ODI 12 ODI Admittedly, Taylor's form this season hasn't been too great either, but a highest score of 46 in 19 innings when he's being played as a specialist batsman doesn't seem to justify Billing's inclusion in the side. Surely Willey might be a better option?
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Post by lenny on Jun 13, 2015 12:02:19 GMT 1
Billings has a fantastic List A record and much worse FC and T20 records. Taylor's record is better, though, and he should be in the side - it's hardly as if he's over the hill! WIlley would give something else to the bowling line-up and would mean we don't have to expect the 5 bowlers we have to all be bowling 10 overs unless Root sends down a couple.
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Post by vanner on Jun 13, 2015 12:31:28 GMT 1
I really don't understand the logic of playing Billings with Buttler already in the side. Taylor seems to have upset someone. He's never been given a chance to establish himself. Just think of Billings as a batsmen. Taylor averages 51 with a strike rate of 80 whilst Billings averages 40 at a strike rate of 115, they wanted a hitter at 7 to move Buttler up to 6 so it makes sense by that logic. I do agree that Taylor should be playing. I'd be a lot happier with Taylor 3, Buttler 7. Gives us a little bit more solidarity at the top. As good as these 2 innings have been, we've been in trouble both teams.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2015 12:48:38 GMT 1
If they insist on having Buttler at 6, I'd move Stokes down to 7 and still find room for Taylor at 3.
Incidentally, having Moeen Ali at 8 for the Tests is ridiculous. He's a batsman who can bowl, but not a front line spinner as yet, and the learning curve for that should be with Worcestershire and NOT being slaughtered by the Australians.
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Post by bertymax on Jun 13, 2015 13:00:59 GMT 1
Billings has a fantastic List A record and much worse FC and T20 records. Taylor's record is better, though, and he should be in the side - it's hardly as if he's over the hill! WIlley would give something else to the bowling line-up and would mean we don't have to expect the 5 bowlers we have to all be bowling 10 overs unless Root sends down a couple. Totally agree with this. I can't see how Billings could of overtaken someone like Taylor in the pecking order, not only was Taylor one of the few positives to come out of our sorry showing in the World Cup but he gives you so much more in the field and if there is a better gully fielder out there then I havn't seen him. We have enough of the so called big hitters in the top 7 as it is with Hales, Roy, Stokes Buttler and Morgan, Taylor can still clear the ropes but he is more of a innings builder like a Root and deserves his place in the team. Although i have been really heartened by our performances vs the Kiwis, our bowling does really worry me and that was the most runs an England team has ever conceded in an ODI. Chris Jordan is an amazing athlete but I just don't think he is quite at the right standard at this level, if he can work on his line, he could be a useful economy bowler to dry the runs up at one end but unfortunatley he bowls way too much loose stuff which is easy pickings for international batsmen at this level. David Willey is well worth looking at and as a left arm over the wicket bowler would just give us that little bit more variety. The fact he can more than hold a bat is another bonus and his strike is right up there with the top order batsmen to the extent that he opens up for Northants in T20. Anyway, well done England, the talent has always been there, what has been missing is the mental belief and positivity which seems to be coursing through their veins now, for the first time in 10 years I'm excited about our potential in this format of the game again!
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Post by lenny on Jun 13, 2015 13:19:44 GMT 1
Buttler at 6 works well for me. Taylor at 3/5 and Root at the other spot - we definitely don't want to move Morgan now he's scoring again - and Stokes down at 7 would be my preferred line-up. Billings obviously has talent and I expect him to be given at least one more game, but having someone like Taylor with an average of 50 out of the side is incredible - I get that his strike rate is lower than Billings', but the game has evolved so much over the last few years that any players even just a couple of years younger will have much more impressive strike rates - 300 is a fairly average score these days, but a bowler with an economy rate of 6 an over is still considered expensive! Taylor has showed he can bat at international level and I don't think his recent SR will be far off that of Billings.
Jordan is still annoyingly inconsistent - in the test series in the Windies he was bowling consistently at a good line and length and was our most economical bowler, but he was far too expensive yesterday. Having another bowler would mean we could afford to keep him in - his fielding is so good that keeps him in for me - even if he has a bad day with the ball. When he's good, he can be very good.
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Post by bertymax on Jun 13, 2015 14:03:09 GMT 1
Don't think Jordan will get away with that Lenny, IMO, a player shouldn't be selected just because their fielding is brilliant, their primary skill has to be with the bat or ball. Having a s**t hot fielder such is an Jordan is an added bonus but right now in ODI cricket, his bowling isn't up to the standard required and is batting has tailed off from when he first burst onto the scene. He will hold onto some pretty amazing catches and might save some runs in the field but he has to be delivering more than just this to justify his place in the team.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2015 14:13:25 GMT 1
Wood for Jordan, Taylor for Billings would be my changes for Southampton.
Willey for Billings if they continue to insist on sidelining Taylor.
Incidentally, I expect that Notts are as fed up with England hanging onto and not playing Taylor as Yorkshire were when Bairstow, Plunkett and Rashid went on a drinks carrying exercise to the West Indies whilst Yorkshire were playing their opening match at Worcester. Admittedly, Taylor was released for a T20 match at Edgbaston last night.
What on earth were they thinking of arranging an overseas test series clashing with the domestic season anyway?
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Post by lenny on Jun 13, 2015 14:15:54 GMT 1
Don't think Jordan will get away with that Lenny, IMO, a player shouldn't be selected just because their fielding is brilliant, their primary skill has to be with the bat or ball. Having a s**t hot fielder such is an Jordan is an added bonus but right now in ODI cricket, his bowling isn't up to the standard required and is batting has tailed off from when he first burst onto the scene. He will hold onto some pretty amazing catches and might save some runs in the field but he has to be delivering more than just this to justify his place in the team. The way I see it is that he is capable of bowling very well but lacks the consistency at present, but I would be prepared to stick with him through his bad patches because of his fielding, rather than him being in the side as a specialist fielder. He's obviously highly rated by Morgan (who kept on bowling him yesterday) and the ECB and will be around the ODI side for a while.
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Post by vanner on Jun 13, 2015 15:00:33 GMT 1
Re Jordan: 20 year old Craig Overton has been called up to cover his injury. Good shout but there a are at least 5 bowlers I would have chosen over him. The Overton's are definitely players to keep an eye on for the future.
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Post by lenny on Jun 13, 2015 15:09:30 GMT 1
Re Jordan: 20 year old Craig Overton has been called up to cover his injury. Good shout but there a are at least 5 bowlers I would have chosen over him. The Overton's are definitely players to keep an eye on for the future. Assume it's more a case of giving him some experience of being around the national set-up; either Wood or Willey will surely come in for Jordan if he doesn't recover.
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Post by lenny on Jun 13, 2015 15:47:05 GMT 1
Although a quick look at Overton's record this season is very impressive. Only played red ball, but his record is excellent:
41 and 10 vs Worcs, 1/64 24 and 25 vs NZ, 2/50 and 2/39 55 and 2 vs Notts, 4/40 and 2/29 31* vs Yorks, 3/74 and 3/73 12 and 1* vs Durham, 4/40 and 3/41
Total of 201 runs from 9 innings with 7 dismissals, so averaging about 29 with the bat. 24 wickets for 450 at 18.75. All against some very decent sides, too.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2015 21:55:29 GMT 1
Another ridiculous Duckworth Lewis result today.
Somerset 159/5 after 20 overs. Glamorgan 43/1 after 6 overs.
Glamorgan win by 2 runs! And that despite Somerset's run rate being 7.95 whereas Glamorgan's was only 7.16 with all of their 1st six overs being the power play.
Lunacy.
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Post by vanner on Jun 14, 2015 13:10:45 GMT 1
We keep losing wickets just as we seem to be getting ahead of the game. 227-5 off 36.4 Should be aiming for 350 ideally. Big knock for billings.
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