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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2014 23:35:33 GMT 1
They have had 86 shots in the last 6 league games and only scored once according to BBC stats. If you can't score and the other side does then that's it. Have other sides worked out how to defend against us? Don't Town have a match analyst? 86 shots in 6 games suggests very strongly that our opponents haven't worked out how to defend against us - just a pity that we haven't worked out how to get the damn thing in the net!
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Post by onthepitch on Oct 5, 2014 23:54:46 GMT 1
Well, I don't know, just asking the question. It seems logical to me to look at the training methods as it's the only common denominator (I can think of) in two teams with similar problems? What makes you think the training will be the same this season as last? Just because Jackson's there? Wouldn't you expect Mellon to have had a say in what happens in training? Be that as it may, why does the fact that we're on a bad run this season mean it must be down to the same "common denominator" as produced last season's problems? Were we relegated because of our training methods? I'd put a number of other causes before that (inadequate pre-season recruitment and over-reliance on loans for a start) and I wouldn't presume to know whether our training methods could have been a factor at all. I just can't see the logic of linking a huge assumption about the reason for last season's failings with the current bad run. Why can't there just be different reasons? Better crossing, better finishing and some goal scoring contributions from midfield would have seen us in and around the top 3. Don't suppose much credit would have been given to Jackson or training methods then. Why does there have to be a scapegoat? Seems to me we've got a very good squad but it's lost its way. I'm sure we'll pull through this but our best chance of doing so is in remaining calm and unified. Asking a question isn't quite the same as holding a belief is it? Having said that, how do you think we might improve the crossing, finishing and coax a few goals out of the midfielders? Because as you say if those things had been better we would be higher up the table than we are (genius!).
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owdlad
Midland League Division Two
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Post by owdlad on Oct 5, 2014 23:58:28 GMT 1
Only 26 shots were on target though meaning just over 4 a game. The first 5 league games saw 56 shots with 30 on target, averaging 6 per match suggesting that opponents are learning how to play us.
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Post by blazey on Oct 6, 2014 0:09:51 GMT 1
MM gets the benefit of a whole season from me, barring a disastrous slump of course!
Concerned that the tactics/team selections have more than a whiff of the Mike Jackson's about them, though. Defence generally looks OK but the two "Undroppables" in midfield don't look good particularly considering the plethora of options there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 7:43:24 GMT 1
If we are going to start talking about rush jobs we need to start looking at Blackpool. Yes 17 players is a high number, but to suggest it is a rush job is way off the mark. Like I said most of the squad was in place for pre-season, unlike Blackpool. A rush job also suggests that we’ve grabbed any old player available. That is not the case as MM has thought out who he wanted and even on a player recommended by the old regime in Demetriou. Blackpool have ended up with Nile Ranger. As pointed out this squad has been together for around 3 months and 16 competitive games. We have done well at home and beaten higher placed teams.
17 is not just a high number, it's an extremely high number. A 'rush job' doesn't suggest any old player, it suggests putting together a squad in an exceptionally quick time where there was little time to think as to how players would gel. Melon wasn't appointed until May 12th let's not forget
We know this, we were all surprised at how quick the squad was assembled.
Home and away are very different scenarios for a new squad to deal with and there are no guarantees at the moment that we have gelled even at home. There are many reasons why even under normal circumstances home teams do better than away teams including referee favouritism, crowd influence, practice time on the pitch, travel quality etc
This squad has been built in super quick time with an unprecedented number so please don't suggest that this won't take an equally unprecedented time for them to gel because I don't think that's fair to Melon or the players. We will know more at Christmas and in the signings made in the window until then just see it as it is. We've done ok under very difficult circumstances for the manager and even if we weren't doing this well it could be expected.
As said, if we're not improving come February and if we're down the bottom then (and only then IMO) should we be looking for reasons other than this is just 17 new players who a new manager is trying to form into a team unit.
Mellon talked about players having the right DNA, it was commented on and the **** frequently taken about the comment. He talked about getting the right players in who are good around the dressing room. This suggests he had time to think about how quickly the team would gel. Most of these players were in for pre-season, a target he set himself. The comments about the squad as I remember it was around signing permanent players on contracts usually longer than 12 months. There was no denying that it happened quickly, but that because Mellon wanted them in before pre-season. However this is not a rush job because he thought about who he wanted and they main group has been together 3 months. A rush job suggests panic and Blackpool. This is all underpinned by the need to get promoted. Promotion or bust isn't it? We haven't got till February. Preparation for away games seems fine. Mellon talked about the nice hotel for Southend and MW talked about the cost of overnight stays pre-season. The problems are probably already mental and an issue of confidence. Mark Elliot suggested too many players are out of form.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 9:03:51 GMT 1
Lets get behind the manager and the lads. There is no hiding the fact that we are on a very bad run of form (cup games aside). A couple of wins on the bounce however could probably put us back in a play off position, so lets stay positive. Cheltenham next up
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Oct 6, 2014 9:24:46 GMT 1
There is no way I would call for a managers head after just 2 months of a season gone . Especially after such good performances seen in games such as leicester , Norwich and accrington Stanley . But I am really annoyed at the fact josh ginnely (a good player he might go on to be ) comes on before players like Lawrence. And keeping proven players like wildig and Robinson out of the squad . Robinson is tried and tested at lower league level! Wildig is wasting away sat around doing nothing . The way Mellon is going about things will not please many fans especially after trying to turn things on Stuart Dunn who is only doing his job . We have a massive squad which needs to be used.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 9:39:41 GMT 1
There is no way I would call for a managers head after just 2 months of a season gone . Especially after such good performances seen in games such as leicester , Norwich and accrington Stanley . But I am really annoyed at the fact josh ginnely (a good player he might go on to be ) comes on before players like Lawrence. And keeping proven players like wildig and Robinson out of the squad . Robinson is tried and tested at lower league level! Wildig is wasting away sat around doing nothing . The way Mellon is going about things will not please many fans especially after trying to turn things on Stuart Dunn who is only doing his job . We have a massive squad which needs to be used. Bang on!
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Post by atcham jack on Oct 6, 2014 9:59:38 GMT 1
Melon In! Fully backing root and branch, from RW,MW, MM and all coaches and staff. FS AJ Devon
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 6, 2014 11:32:30 GMT 1
Mellon talked about players having the right DNA, it was commented on and the **** frequently taken about the comment. He talked about getting the right players in who are good around the dressing room. This suggests he had time to think about how quickly the team would gel. Most of these players were in for pre-season, a target he set himself. The comments about the squad as I remember it was around signing permanent players on contracts usually longer than 12 months. There was no denying that it happened quickly, but that because Mellon wanted them in before pre-season. However this is not a rush job because he thought about who he wanted and they main group has been together 3 months. A rush job suggests panic and Blackpool. This is all underpinned by the need to get promoted. Promotion or bust isn't it? We haven't got till February. Preparation for away games seems fine. Mellon talked about the nice hotel for Southend and MW talked about the cost of overnight stays pre-season. The problems are probably already mental and an issue of confidence. Mark Elliot suggested too many players are out of form.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree there. Seventeen players in such a short time, picked by a manager new to the club, is the reason for where we are IMO and we don't need to look for any other reason other than that at the moment.
We started off well enough but now that the players are getting to know one another (argue, fight, dislike, don't trust, sulk, undermine maybe. Cliques developing possibly.) and the cracks of the ultra quick assembly are starting to show (to a man, we were all surprised by the speed) This doesn't mean that it won't work though, it means that it needs working through and the speed in which it gets resolved is the key to our season.
Whatever is missing can't be sorted out until the window, hence we won't really know until February whether MM is doing a decent job or not. Until then we can pick holes in MM all we want but he is still getting to know his squad IMO, how they interact with one another on and off the pitch, at home, and away.
If the team had been assembled already for him and he joined as a new manager then we would all be saying 'give him time'. But he's joined us without any squad at all and has had to assemble his own from scratch and whilst they are players he wanted and some he has managed before then it's still seventeen in number, an unprecedented amount.
I'm surprised at how well he has done to be honest but that doesn't mean everything is rosy, the players are still learning about one another and it's no wonder there's been a downturn, in all likelihood it was always going to happen with seventeen new players.
When the season started where did you think we'd be at this stage of the season bearing in mind the rebuilding job that went on? And more importantly, what was the reason why you thought that? (Questions to everyone, not just yourself Nick). Did we really all think that we'd be in the promotion spots at this stage?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 11:45:51 GMT 1
Mellon talked about players having the right DNA, it was commented on and the **** frequently taken about the comment. He talked about getting the right players in who are good around the dressing room. This suggests he had time to think about how quickly the team would gel. Most of these players were in for pre-season, a target he set himself. The comments about the squad as I remember it was around signing permanent players on contracts usually longer than 12 months. There was no denying that it happened quickly, but that because Mellon wanted them in before pre-season. However this is not a rush job because he thought about who he wanted and they main group has been together 3 months. A rush job suggests panic and Blackpool. This is all underpinned by the need to get promoted. Promotion or bust isn't it? We haven't got till February. Preparation for away games seems fine. Mellon talked about the nice hotel for Southend and MW talked about the cost of overnight stays pre-season. The problems are probably already mental and an issue of confidence. Mark Elliot suggested too many players are out of form.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree there. Seventeen players in such a short time, picked by a manager new to the club, is the reason for where we are IMO and we don't need to look for any other reason other than that at the moment.
We started off well enough but now that the players are getting to know one another (argue, fight, dislike, don't trust, sulk, undermine maybe. Cliques developing possibly.) and the cracks of the ultra quick assembly are starting to show (to a man, we were all surprised by the speed) This doesn't mean that it won't work though, it means that it needs working through and the speed in which it gets resolved is the key to our season.
Whatever is missing can't be sorted out until the window, hence we won't really know until February whether MM is doing a decent job or not. Until then we can pick holes in MM all we want but he is still getting to know his squad IMO, how they interact with one another on and off the pitch, at home, and away.
If the team had been assembled already for him and he joined as a new manager then we would all be saying 'give him time'. But he's joined us without any squad at all and has had to assemble his own from scratch and whilst they are players he wanted and some he has managed before then it's still seventeen in number, an unprecedented amount.
I'm surprised at how well he has done to be honest but that doesn't mean everything is rosy, the players are still learning about one another and it's no wonder there's been a downturn, in all likelihood it was always going to happen with seventeen new players.
When the season started where did you think we'd be at this stage of the season bearing in mind the rebuilding job that went on? And more importantly, what was the reason why you thought that? (Questions to everyone, not just yourself Nick). Did we really all think that we'd be in the promotion spots at this stage?
It’s not about picking holes in MM, but more looking at what he has said and done and measuring that against this idea that we are still ‘gelling’ or that the squad is a ‘rush job’. Anyway the season has panned out pretty much how I expected it so far, in fact slightly better due to the home form. I actually said pre-season that my big concern was a squad that looked strong and had some quality would end up like the Simpson squad of ‘08/’09. Decent at home poor away. Or in other words lack the mental strength to go and grind out results at Hartlepool. So far so spot on. But like I said the other week, the real test for MM is to keep the players believing in themselves and their confidence high. From what I can gather there are no issues with his man management or coaching style. There’s no doubt that he has assembled a good squad, now it’s up to MM to use it.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 6, 2014 12:21:46 GMT 1
The Simpson squad though wasn't made up of seventeen new players, so it's hard to see the comparison there? Likewise, just because they're quality doesn't mean they're not mentally strong. There may even be primadonnas out there but at the moment it's a question of understanding exactly what we have got and how to mould them into a team unit.
Mental strength comes from good leadership, teamwork and caring about your job. This will all come once the players knowing each other a lot better than they currently do. Who are the under-miners? Who are the lazy ones? Who don't fit in? Who get motivated by criticism? Who get disheartened by criticism? You may well be right, they might not have the qualities needed to grind out results away from home and they may not even care about our club but I don't think you can determine that yet even if you do think you have predicted it right. It could be argued too that a sequence of 1-0's means that we are trying to grind it out, just not doing it very well! It's missing that last few pieces of the jigsaw perhaps? A player who can put the bloody ball in the net rather than any lack of fight maybe?
Still, it's interesting nevertheless and I am interested as to how this gets sorted out. Much may well depend on Liam Lawrence and his role of Club Captain. I'm not sure why he's not playing and if I was to criticise MM at all, it would be for that one reason of 'transparency' regarding LL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 12:12:39 GMT 1
How long before somebody starts questioning our supposed saviour? No goals away from home since Leicester? Down to 12th in the table. Defeats at Hartlepool, Stevenage, Southend and Plymouth. Loose away to York and home defeats against Cheltenham, Pompey and Bury then Mellon could be gone before we play Chelsea. Doesn't the poster who created this and those who agreed look like a load of Tit's? Perhaps we could get it ''pinned''.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 12:34:55 GMT 1
Someone already said it on Radio Shropshire's 'The Verdict' IDIOT!!!! One of the benefits of getting the train usually is that I miss out of the knee jerk spoutings of people like that.
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Post by El Presidente on Oct 22, 2014 13:09:40 GMT 1
As I said in my earlier post on this tread... Mellons out is a better prospect. Not Mickey's though please!
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Oct 22, 2014 13:10:27 GMT 1
How long before somebody starts questioning our supposed saviour? No goals away from home since Leicester? Down to 12th in the table. Defeats at Hartlepool, Stevenage, Southend and Plymouth. Loose away to York and home defeats against Cheltenham, Pompey and Bury then Mellon could be gone before we play Chelsea. Doesn't the poster who created this and those who agreed look like a load of Tit's? Perhaps we could get it ''pinned''. people get to exited after a few wins and too upset after a few defeats , that's football
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 13:13:34 GMT 1
So like some of the GT threads of last couple of years we can expect this thread to be bumped up after a good win and then after a few defeats on the bounce
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Post by venceremos on Oct 22, 2014 13:20:28 GMT 1
If it was the fault of Jackson and our training methods when we were in a dip, I wonder what can have happened to turn things around so quickly? Bobby's right, most of us get carried away too easily.
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Post by onthepitch on Oct 22, 2014 15:18:33 GMT 1
If it was the fault of Jackson and our training methods when we were in a dip, I wonder what can have happened to turn things around so quickly? Bobby's right, most of us get carried away too easily. Yep, completely agree
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unclebob
Midland League Division Two
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Post by unclebob on Oct 22, 2014 15:53:17 GMT 1
How long before somebody starts questioning our supposed saviour? No goals away from home since Leicester? Down to 12th in the table. Defeats at Hartlepool, Stevenage, Southend and Plymouth. Loose away to York and home defeats against Cheltenham, Pompey and Bury then Mellon could be gone before we play Chelsea. Doesn't the poster who created this and those who agreed look like a load of Tit's? Perhaps we could get it ''pinned''. Hailing someone as a bit of a messiah so early in the season is just silly as it is to say the opposite. Time will tell but as yet we cant say the original poster is wrong or right.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 22, 2014 16:56:05 GMT 1
There are a few letters missing from the title of this thread - standing - it should read "Mellon outstanding".
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Post by Southern Fried Afro on Oct 22, 2014 17:20:01 GMT 1
We won't score many goals with Woods and Wes partnership in centre mid Good call.
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Post by Catalyst Cartel on Oct 22, 2014 17:24:19 GMT 1
How long before somebody starts questioning our supposed saviour? No goals away from home since Leicester? Down to 12th in the table. Defeats at Hartlepool, Stevenage, Southend and Plymouth. Loose away to York and home defeats against Cheltenham, Pompey and Bury then Mellon could be gone before we play Chelsea. Well so far wins against Cheltenham, York and Bury
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 17:37:49 GMT 1
We won't score many goals with Woods and Wes partnership in centre mid Really ?
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Post by Exkeeper on Oct 22, 2014 19:19:17 GMT 1
I bet that Jacko is wishing that Callum and Onthepitch would "take a walk".
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Post by callum on Oct 22, 2014 19:25:41 GMT 1
Its not Jackson the team are playing for. I stand by my comment that he's not popular and should of gone when Turner did,a win against little old Bury won't change my mind. Jackson out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 21:12:07 GMT 1
A few wins on the bounce in a very poor division is not conclusive either way but at least it's finally ended a woeful run of results.
To suggest this post should be pinned to highlight 'mellon out' might yet count in the negative and not to the liking of the poster who suggested it. In short, stupid idea.
I'm not a fan of Mellon but will be happy to be prooved wrong if he succeeds but that still remains to be seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 21:34:08 GMT 1
A few wins on the bounce in a very poor division is not conclusive either way but at least it's finally ended a woeful run of results. To suggest this post should be pinned to highlight 'mellon out' might yet count in the negative and not to the liking of the poster who suggested it. In short, stupid idea. I'm not a fan of Mellon but will be happy to be prooved wrong if he succeeds but that still remains to be seen. You have to love posters who have an irrational dislike of managers Today you have said a few wins on the bounce is not proof either way but on this thread on 4th October you posted " If Mellon was not the right appointment and it seems increasingly the case then is it right to continue with him hoping it will come right. In short you are more happy to be critical of a manger after two defeats but when we have a succession of defeats then its the "a couple of wins in a poor league proves nothing". For the record Im not getting over excited at a few wins just like I didnt go into panic mode after a few defeats. Mellon still has to prove himself but lets give him a chance please, if in a years time we are still in L2 then I can understand people questioning him but not in October of his first season
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Post by shrewsoftheworld on Oct 22, 2014 22:31:00 GMT 1
I have never understood those who decide they don't like a player or manager and seem to look for any negative 'evidence' to back up their view ignoring anything to the contrary.
Appearing to revel in criticising your own seems strange especially when we are (currently!) a lower league team and therefore likely to see huge inconsistency in performance.
For example to date I haven't been impressed by either Griffith or Vernon, however at league 2 level they have enough pedigree to show they could easily turn that around and unlike some who have probably 'already made up their mind' I really hope they do.
Griffith now looks fit and has shown he can bring something to the squad, while if vernon can get a goal and increase his apparent lack of confidence he could make a telling contribution to our promotion campaign.
One thing is certain individually and as a team we are more likely to succeed with positive support and keeping the faith after a few poor results.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 22:45:16 GMT 1
Going to the extreme either way is not my style but I think it is far better to show your appreciation on a successful period no matter how short that is. It is far better than turning on a Manager after a few Months in the job and posting threads doesn't do the Club any favours. What do you think it will gain? Other than fill some attention vacumn. Anyone with an ounce of Football sense will realise getting a whole new squad of this size isn't guaranteed, it need's time if we ''blip'' again so what, do you except to win every game?
The more I can Bump up this thread to make it look stupid the better. This will also satisfy those '' Drama Queens'' in there attention seeking.
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