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Post by buryshrew on Oct 5, 2014 10:01:00 GMT 1
If the difficult working relationship between RW and MW continues and MW walks I wonder if MM will follow. So the he'll be out anyway. First I've heard of this. Me too. Any one care to expand? Or is this a case of extreme stirring?
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Post by atcham jack on Oct 5, 2014 10:16:49 GMT 1
I believe MM was at a low ebb after another defeat. in post match comments he appears to call some fans liars if they disbelieve MM's comment that he could not expect more from his team. this is reported online in the sloppy Star and 2 of us have replied.
as for RW, MW and MM, I thought they were the holy trinity pulling things together, money raising ideas and team building. do hope it is not going pear shaped after such a great start from the Board, CEO office and the Dressing Room. come on Town. sort it out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 11:42:42 GMT 1
First I've heard of this. Me too. Any one care to expand? Or is this a case of extreme stirring? I can absolutely assure you that I have better things to do than stir the . I am merely repeating something mentioned to me and going on past evidence, episodes and personal experience something that I can well believe.
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Post by northwestman on Oct 5, 2014 12:27:57 GMT 1
We've only played about a 1/3 of the season, would prefer to get any problems in the team ironed out now and hit the ground running in the close season, the table means nothing at the moment, I remember a few seasons ago Wycombe went the first 18 games unbeaten and then only just made the play off s so nothing to panic about yet, if were still in the same position in January then maybe its time to be concerned, but dont forget its a brand new squad with only a fraction of players who were here last year so it will take time to gel.. Bring on the Chelksi Does it really take 11 games for us to work out how to defend crosses, corners and dead ball situations? I'd have thought that was basic.
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Post by shrewsforlife on Oct 5, 2014 13:45:31 GMT 1
Sacking Mellon would be a big error.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Oct 5, 2014 15:36:12 GMT 1
Wouldn't have thought Mellon was under any threat of the sack. I hope not anyway. However, his sulky tone when answering pretty bland questions from Stuart Dunn, in which he told us precisely nothing, won't do him any favours with supporters.
Yesterday was the second time I've heard an opposition manager saying they've "won ugly" against us, which would suggest our style has been rumbled by other teams.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 18:03:52 GMT 1
This is what happens when you assemble 17 players at very short notice. It takes time. The jury is still out as to whether we have gelled at home but we definitely haven't gelled away (lot's of factors here as to why, even under 'normal' circumstances i.e adding just a few new players to a squad can upset the balance)
17 players is an extraordinary amount, but was needed. Now MM needs to earn his stripes by bringing in what else is needed to correct the problems of the 'rush job' These need to be players who can 'gel' with who he has currently got. He has the time now to do this properly.
1.He currently knows that he has 17 new players added to some youngsters from last season 2.He is getting to know how they work, behave, fight, interact with one another, on and off the pitch. With that he needs to think of how they do that both home and away as they are two completely separate circumstances for players to gel in. 3. If anyone expected that many new players to be performing as a promotion level'team unit' after 10 games then they are living in cloud cuckoo land (we've done brilliant to be where we currently are IMO + a cup run we all wanted) 4. Next stage is to correct the rush job in the window 5. Push on to the play-offs February onwards 6. If we don't make it, we don't make it, but it shouldn't be the end of Melon's reign
We will know more at Christmas, we will know a lot more at the end of the season. But what I personally want is to build this slowly and do it right. I never expected 14/15 to be any different but with a properly gelled squad in 15/16 I will. There would be no excuses then IMO.
So I say chill out people. Enjoy our 'traditional giant-killing' escapades against Chelsea (!) and enjoy watching this squad grow, gel and form over the next year or so. Just don't expect it to be a miracle on the scale of Lazarus and don't expect there won't be tough times.
Melon can be properly assessed next year but at the moment look no further than our problems lie with 17 players thrown together as a 'rush job' with no great thoughts as to how they might work together as a team.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 19:10:59 GMT 1
This is what happens when you assemble 17 players at very short notice. It takes time. The jury is still out as to whether we have gelled at home but we definitely haven't gelled away (lot's of factors here as to why, even under 'normal' circumstances i.e adding just a few new players to a squad can upset the balance)
17 players is an extraordinary amount, but was needed. Now MM needs to earn his stripes by bringing in what else is needed to correct the problems of the 'rush job' These need to be players who can 'gel' with who he has currently got. He has the time now to do this properly.
1.He currently knows that he has 17 new players added to some youngsters from last season 2.He is getting to know how they work, behave, fight, interact with one another, on and off the pitch. With that he needs to think of how they do that both home and away as they are two completely separate circumstances for players to gel in. 3. If anyone expected that many new players to be performing as a promotion level'team unit' after 10 games then they are living in cloud cuckoo land (we've done brilliant to be where we currently are IMO + a cup run we all wanted) 4. Next stage is to correct the rush job in the window 5. Push on to the play-offs February onwards 6. If we don't make it, we don't make it, but it shouldn't be the end of Melon's reign
We will know more at Christmas, we will know a lot more at the end of the season. But what I personally want is to build this slowly and do it right. I never expected 14/15 to be any different but with a properly gelled squad in 15/16 I will. There would be no excuses then IMO.
So I say chill out people. Enjoy our 'traditional giant-killing' escapades against Chelsea (!) and enjoy watching this squad grow, gel and form over the next year or so. Just don't expect it to be a miracle on the scale of Lazarus and don't expect there won't be tough times.
Melon can be properly assessed next year but at the moment look no further than our problems lie with 17 players thrown together as a 'rush job' with no great thoughts as to how they might work together as a team.
The way Mellon talked about assembling the squad suggests that it wasn’t a rush job. He kept banging on about players having the right DNA. He had players in mind as soon as he it here. Most were in place when pre-season started. Some were on trial. Also he’s worked with a few of them before.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 19:19:12 GMT 1
A few of them isn't 17 though Nick is it?
MM, talking up how he assembled the players, is neither here nor there. It's still 17 players in what 10 weeks? It's a rush job, extremely rare in the footballing world, in fact I can't remember any squad being assembled that quickly, with that amount of players.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:06:13 GMT 1
Mickey Mellon has my support 100% but now is the time he needs to up his game and make the right selections, a few have been questionable, the omission of Lawrence being one of them!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:22:50 GMT 1
Mickey Mellon has my support 100% but now is the time he needs to up his game and make the right selections, a few have been questionable, the omission of Lawrence being one of them!
The minute he starts listening to fans to inform his selections is the minute he needs to start clearing his desk. The memory of GT being criticised for continually picking Richards just because he was captain seems particularly ironic at the moment.
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Post by callum on Oct 5, 2014 20:29:23 GMT 1
Need time to gel? what are they doing all week in training. A good three months in and they still haven't gel'd, well i hope they were in today as they obviously should be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:35:21 GMT 1
Mickey Mellon has my support 100% but now is the time he needs to up his game and make the right selections, a few have been questionable, the omission of Lawrence being one of them!
The minute he starts listening to fans to inform his selections is the minute he needs to start clearing his desk. The memory of GT being criticised for continually picking Richards just because he was captain seems particularly ironic at the moment. I did not state he should listen to the fans, but the results in our 6 away league games proves his selection as well as the team performance and the way the team has been set up is questionable. Having been to Plymouth yesterday it was clear from the outset we would struggle to score, and we have the same problem at home recently! Mellon needs to up his game, no doubt about that!
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 20:38:07 GMT 1
Need time to gel? what are they doing all week in training. A good three months in and they still haven't gel'd, well i hope they were in today as they obviously should be.
Three months is early days IMO.
17 new players is unprecedented in football, it's hard enough just introducing two or three.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 20:39:51 GMT 1
He's about where he should be at this stage of his Town reign.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:43:20 GMT 1
A few of them isn't 17 though Nick is it? MM, talking up how he assembled the players, is neither here nor there. It's still 17 players in what 10 weeks? It's a rush job, extremely rare in the footballing world, in fact I can't remember any squad being assembled that quickly, with that amount of players. If we are going to start talking about rush jobs we need to start looking at Blackpool. Yes 17 players is a high number, but to suggest it is a rush job is way off the mark. Like I said most of the squad was in place for pre-season, unlike Blackpool. A rush job also suggests that we’ve grabbed any old player available. That is not the case as MM has thought out who he wanted and even took on a player recommended by the old regime in Demetriou. Blackpool have ended up with Nile Ranger. As pointed out this squad has been together for around 3 months and 16 competitive games. We have done well at home and beaten higher placed teams.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 20:45:41 GMT 1
The minute he starts listening to fans to inform his selections is the minute he needs to start clearing his desk. The memory of GT being criticised for continually picking Richards just because he was captain seems particularly ironic at the moment. I did not state he should listen to the fans, but the results in our 6 away league games proves his selection as well as the team performance and the way the team has been set up is questionable. Having been to Plymouth yesterday it was clear from the outset we would struggle to score, and we have the same problem at home recently! Mellon needs to up his game, no doubt about that! It's impossible to prove whether a different selection would have produced a different result. Most of our away defeats have been decided by narrow margins, missed chances, a couple of errors here and there... that could be to do with how the selected players played on the day, regardless of who they were. As for your prophecy that yesterday's team would struggle to score, I take it you predicted that their keeper would make a couple of excellent saves?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 21:14:28 GMT 1
I did not state he should listen to the fans, but the results in our 6 away league games proves his selection as well as the team performance and the way the team has been set up is questionable. Having been to Plymouth yesterday it was clear from the outset we would struggle to score, and we have the same problem at home recently! Mellon needs to up his game, no doubt about that! It's impossible to prove whether a different selection would have produced a different result. Most of our away defeats have been decided by narrow margins, missed chances, a couple of errors here and there... that could be to do with how the selected players played on the day, regardless of who they were. As for your prophecy that yesterday's team would struggle to score, I take it you predicted that their keeper would make a couple of excellent saves? Paul, since the 1st of September and the last 8 matches we have scored 2 goals!
I think that suggests a problem and although I do believe MM has good enough players at his disposal he needs to sort this goalshy problem sooner rather than later!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 21:18:52 GMT 1
It's impossible to prove whether a different selection would have produced a different result. Most of our away defeats have been decided by narrow margins, missed chances, a couple of errors here and there... that could be to do with how the selected players played on the day, regardless of who they were. As for your prophecy that yesterday's team would struggle to score, I take it you predicted that their keeper would make a couple of excellent saves? Paul, since the 1st of September and the last 8 matches we have scored 2 goals!
I think that suggests a problem and although I do believe MM has good enough players at his disposal he needs to sort this goalshy problem sooner rather than later!
I absolutely agree but as we have tinkered around with the selection a lot in that time, it doesn't add much weight to your argument.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2014 21:51:26 GMT 1
Of course. It's always the assistant manager's fault. Stands to reason. Well, I don't know, just asking the question. It seems logical to me to look at the training methods as it's the only common denominator (I can think of) in two teams with similar problems? What makes you think the training will be the same this season as last? Just because Jackson's there? Wouldn't you expect Mellon to have had a say in what happens in training? Be that as it may, why does the fact that we're on a bad run this season mean it must be down to the same "common denominator" as produced last season's problems? Were we relegated because of our training methods? I'd put a number of other causes before that (inadequate pre-season recruitment and over-reliance on loans for a start) and I wouldn't presume to know whether our training methods could have been a factor at all. I just can't see the logic of linking a huge assumption about the reason for last season's failings with the current bad run. Why can't there just be different reasons? Better crossing, better finishing and some goal scoring contributions from midfield would have seen us in and around the top 3. Don't suppose much credit would have been given to Jackson or training methods then. Why does there have to be a scapegoat? Seems to me we've got a very good squad but it's lost its way. I'm sure we'll pull through this but our best chance of doing so is in remaining calm and unified.
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Post by Dale on Oct 5, 2014 21:59:15 GMT 1
RW falling out with his chief executive? What a revelation that is!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 22:07:00 GMT 1
RW falling out with his chief executive? What a revelation that is! Chinese whispers
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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2014 22:13:03 GMT 1
A few of them isn't 17 though Nick is it? MM, talking up how he assembled the players, is neither here nor there. It's still 17 players in what 10 weeks? It's a rush job, extremely rare in the footballing world, in fact I can't remember any squad being assembled that quickly, with that amount of players. If we are going to start talking about rush jobs we need to start looking at Blackpool. Yes 17 players is a high number, but to suggest it is a rush job is way off the mark. Like I said most of the squad was in place for pre-season, unlike Blackpool. A rush job also suggests that we’ve grabbed any old player available. That is not the case as MM has thought out who he wanted and even took on a player recommended by the old regime in Demetriou. Blackpool have ended up with Nile Ranger. As pointed out this squad has been together for around 3 months and 16 competitive games. We have done well at home and beaten higher placed teams. I don't get this "gelling" argument at all. It's obvious that any newly assembled group of players will need time and games together. Equally, it's fair to point out that we've played a good number of competitive games already, so you'd hope the signs of the team gelling would be there. Well, they are. The League Cup teams and those that beat Luton and Accrington gelled pretty well. It's not as if we've been crap for 15 games and it should all suddenly click and we'll be good for the rest of the season. It'll be up and down - just as it has been already. We haven't been consistently good enough in the league. But our defensive record is good enough for a team much higher up the table, so that's gelling pretty well. We're short of goals and we all have theories as to why that might be. But I've no doubt the team's gelling.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 22:16:29 GMT 1
A few of them isn't 17 though Nick is it? MM, talking up how he assembled the players, is neither here nor there. It's still 17 players in what 10 weeks? It's a rush job, extremely rare in the footballing world, in fact I can't remember any squad being assembled that quickly, with that amount of players. If we are going to start talking about rush jobs we need to start looking at Blackpool. Yes 17 players is a high number, but to suggest it is a rush job is way off the mark. Like I said most of the squad was in place for pre-season, unlike Blackpool. A rush job also suggests that we’ve grabbed any old player available. That is not the case as MM has thought out who he wanted and even took on a player recommended by the old regime in Demetriou. Blackpool have ended up with Nile Ranger. As pointed out this squad has been together for around 3 months and 16 competitive games. We have done well at home and beaten higher placed teams.
17 is not just a high number, it's an extremely high number. A 'rush job' doesn't suggest any old player, it suggests putting together a squad in an exceptionally quick time where there was little time to think as to how players would gel. Melon wasn't appointed until May 12th let's not forget
We know this, we were all surprised at how quick the squad was assembled.
Home and away are very different scenarios for a new squad to deal with and there are no guarantees at the moment that we have gelled even at home. There are many reasons why even under normal circumstances home teams do better than away teams including referee favouritism, crowd influence, practice time on the pitch, travel quality etc
This squad has been built in super quick time with an unprecedented number so please don't suggest that this won't take an equally unprecedented time for them to gel because I don't think that's fair to Melon or the players. We will know more at Christmas and in the signings made in the window until then just see it as it is. We've done ok under very difficult circumstances for the manager and even if we weren't doing this well it could be expected.
As said, if we're not improving come February and if we're down the bottom then (and only then IMO) should we be looking for reasons other than this is just 17 new players who a new manager is trying to form into a team unit.
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owdlad
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Post by owdlad on Oct 5, 2014 22:17:48 GMT 1
Anybody thinking that the prospect of playing against Chelsea might be a factor? A factor for whom? The players? The Manager? The crowd? The catering staff? Are you saying that we aren't playing well away because we are focussed on the Chelsea game? I would sincerely hope not. We have done exceptionally well to get to this stage in this competition and although I, we, the team, would love to progress and cause an upset, this is in all probability will be the end (look at the defeatist in me there!) What I'm saying is, the cup game is just one game and a lucrative one at that; the league is what we should be concentrating on at this time. We have several more games before the cup game so it shouldn't be a factor. Can you ellaborate what context you mean by your statement please.
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Post by champagneprince on Oct 5, 2014 22:21:35 GMT 1
If we are going to start talking about rush jobs we need to start looking at Blackpool. Yes 17 players is a high number, but to suggest it is a rush job is way off the mark. Like I said most of the squad was in place for pre-season, unlike Blackpool. A rush job also suggests that we’ve grabbed any old player available. That is not the case as MM has thought out who he wanted and even took on a player recommended by the old regime in Demetriou. Blackpool have ended up with Nile Ranger. As pointed out this squad has been together for around 3 months and 16 competitive games. We have done well at home and beaten higher placed teams. I don't get this "gelling" argument at all. It's obvious that any newly assembled group of players will need time and games together. Equally, it's fair to point out that we've played a good number of competitive games already, so you'd hope the signs of the team gelling would be there. Well, they are. The League Cup teams and those that beat Luton and Accrington gelled pretty well. It's not as if we've been cr@p for 15 games and it should all suddenly click and we'll be good for the rest of the season. It'll be up and down - just as it has been already. We haven't been consistently good enough in the league. But our defensive record is good enough for a team much higher up the table, so that's gelling pretty well. We're short of goals and we all have theories as to why that might be. But I've no doubt the team's gelling.
You've said the key word "gelling", but not "gelled" There is a big difference between the two. We will be as "gelled" as we're going to be by Christmas IMO and then we will really know if our current squad is decent (with the window to correct anything that's wrong)
Did we really all think that 17 new players under a new manager would be promotion candidates at this stage of the season? Honestly, did you?
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Post by mattmw on Oct 5, 2014 23:11:38 GMT 1
Think you can look at bringing 17 players in during the summer in two ways.
One. It's clearly going to take a group that big, plus a new manager to settle in and find the right players for the right positions. We've got it right some of the time but still work to do, and maybe one or two positions need strengthening
Two. Having brought in 17 players creates its own pressure. Mellon can't make the complaint he has inherited a poor squad and players he doesn't want, so if they don't perform there isn't much fall back for the manager. I don't actually think the squad has cost that much but you also get the accusation we are a cheque book club which creates its own pressure of sides wanting to beat you
When it comes down to it neither really matters, its results that are key. Any boss loosing 4-5 on the trot is going to be in trouble, win 3 on the trot and you'll be manager of the month and everything smelling of roses. Just the way things are in football now
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Post by shrewd67 on Oct 5, 2014 23:12:20 GMT 1
RW falling out with his chief executive? What a revelation that is! Chinese whispers Maybe, but heard this too.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2014 23:24:34 GMT 1
I don't get this "gelling" argument at all. It's obvious that any newly assembled group of players will need time and games together. Equally, it's fair to point out that we've played a good number of competitive games already, so you'd hope the signs of the team gelling would be there. Well, they are. The League Cup teams and those that beat Luton and Accrington gelled pretty well. It's not as if we've been cr@p for 15 games and it should all suddenly click and we'll be good for the rest of the season. It'll be up and down - just as it has been already. We haven't been consistently good enough in the league. But our defensive record is good enough for a team much higher up the table, so that's gelling pretty well. We're short of goals and we all have theories as to why that might be. But I've no doubt the team's gelling.
You've said the key word "gelling", but not "gelled" There is a big difference between the two. We will be as "gelled" as we're going to be by Christmas IMO and then we will really know if our current squad is decent (with the window to correct anything that's wrong)
Did we really all think that 17 new players under a new manager would be promotion candidates at this stage of the season? Honestly, did you?
It was intentional - I believe "gelling" is a progression, not an on/off switch (not gelled/gelled). We're very much a work in progress, sometimes it's been exceptionally good, sometimes not very good at all. Did I honestly expect that would be the case? Yes, except I didn't expect us to be as good as we've been when we've hit the heights (Leicester and Luton). That's why I remain optimistic, as much as I was cursing and muttering yesterday. We just have to find out how to play away from home in this league.
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owdlad
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Post by owdlad on Oct 5, 2014 23:28:34 GMT 1
Anybody thinking that the prospect of playing against Chelsea might be a factor? A factor for whom? The players? The Manager? The crowd? The catering staff? Are you saying that we aren't playing well away because we are focussed on the Chelsea game? I would sincerely hope not. We have done exceptionally well to get to this stage in this competition and although I, we, the team, would love to progress and cause an upset, this is in all probability will be the end (look at the defeatist in me there!) What I'm saying is, the cup game is just one game and a lucrative one at that; the league is what we should be concentrating on at this time. We have several more games before the cup game so it shouldn't be a factor. Can you ellaborate what context you mean by your statement please. It was meant as a question not a statement. Some might think it's in the back of player's minds but the poor league results started after the Preston game. Town had 11 points from 5 matches before that. Since then they've had a return of 4 from 6. They have had 86 shots in the last 6 league games and only scored once according to BBC stats. If you can't score and the other side does then that's it. Have other sides worked out how to defend against us? Don't Town have a match analyst?
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