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Post by mattmw on Jul 10, 2014 21:12:58 GMT 1
Fully support the strikes today and the reason behind it. But also think we need to look closely at the private sector wages for the low paid too
The Government rightly points to improvements in employment numbers but forgets to mention the large increase in people in work having to claim some kind of support or income from the state to make minimum levels. The state is basically bailing out businesses who won't pay the going rate
Interestingly in the rate of tax income received from those in work is going up much less than the numbers getting back into work. Hence the deficit gap not closing as quickly as it should, and the economic recover not benefiting the lowest paid workers and taking them out of benefits
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Jul 10, 2014 21:17:24 GMT 1
Well done all.
Anyone going to work today are scabs.
Public sector workers should be paid footballers wages because they're so ruddy bloody brave.
Up Arthur Scargill and Vive le revolution!
I'm off for a pint of mild down the Nags. Anyone want to join me?
Now, where did I leave the keys to my Austin Allegro?
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jul 10, 2014 21:19:51 GMT 1
FBU eh?? Starting wage of 21k, average wage out of training 28k, not bad
Well it's not as good as an MP, who's only training seems to be butt slurping their way to the top of the hog's trough. Any road up, I wonder if the salary would have been that high if industrial action hadn't been taken in the past?
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Post by jamo on Jul 10, 2014 21:34:25 GMT 1
just think as we are finally getting back on the feet as a country you get the unions with very little support calling for individuals to bring the country to a standstill. That one comment sums up the argument Downie.' Just when we're getting back on our feet ' We were never off our feet - we print our own currency for gods sake. There was a grossly obscene financial crisis caused by one section of our economy and we , and I mean WE, have had to pay the price for that whilst that very sector of the economy, after taking billions of pounds of public money to help them out return to massive profits and massive bonuses for those involved. People who spout this austerity lie seriously devalue the legitimacy of their argument. What is happening to the public sector is political first and last and has nothing to do with money. For proof of that just quickly google how much each authority is putting into financial reserves at the same time as carrying out Pickles agenda.
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Post by jamo on Jul 10, 2014 21:39:16 GMT 1
FBU eh?? Starting wage of 21k, average wage out of training 28k, not bad
Well it's not as good as an MP, who's only training seems to be butt slurping their way to the top of the hog's trough. Any road up, I wonder if the salary would have been that high if industrial action hadn't been taken in the past?
Absolutely Jaytee. Without 77/78 what would the wages of ' the average' firefighter be now.
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 10, 2014 21:47:13 GMT 1
More power to all of you. I am retired now but would have given my full support to you today.
For years I assumed striking was wrong and then I woke up and realised that it was the only sanction I had against unfairness and I believe this utterly now. I was in the public sector (in a school but not a teacher) and believe me we put up with some rubbish management over the years
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2014 21:50:16 GMT 1
The Tories think striking is so pointless they need to ban it, ha ha...
Loving the hypocrisy of their 'no mandate' gobbledegook, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:55:05 GMT 1
FBU eh?? Starting wage of 21k, average wage out of training 28k, not bad, can see why a sector that has virtually everyone who is not in training is paid well above the national average would need to go on strike....... Downie, I love you to bits you tory arse, but how much would you go into a burning building for?
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2014 21:58:32 GMT 1
FBU eh?? Starting wage of 21k, average wage out of training 28k, not bad
Well it's not as good as an MP, who's only training seems to be butt slurping their way to the top of the hog's trough. Any road up, I wonder if the salary would have been that high if industrial action hadn't been taken in the past?
Hardly an astronomical wage for a skilled and vital job. And if anyone had actually spoken to firefighters they'd realise the reason they're striking is mainly due to changes to their pension contributions. These could prove to be unaffordable and quite easily cause the whole scheme to collapse. There are also the proposed changes to shift patterns which could mean firefighters essentially living at the station for days at a time. A very sly move as most firefighters have, or will have families and these shifts will prove incompatible with most people's lives - voila, no one stays in the fire service for too long, no one claims a full pension. There are other dirty tricks at play, but as long as they're getting put in their place - barstewards should be thankful they have a job, eh?
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2014 22:06:25 GMT 1
Stephen Hester at 86% publicly owned RBS was paid millions.
Hospital cleaners working for outside contractors such as Sodexo get paid **** all.
Lumping all private sector wages together, then lumping all public sector wages together and comparing the mean tells you the sum total of **** all!
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2014 22:07:30 GMT 1
FBU eh?? Starting wage of 21k, average wage out of training 28k, not bad, can see why a sector that has virtually everyone who is not in training is paid well above the national average would need to go on strike....... Downie, I love you to bits you tory arse, but how much would you go into a burning building for? Probably depends on whether his 'I Love Maggie' Annual 1983 is in there.
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Post by jonbond on Jul 10, 2014 22:10:25 GMT 1
Everyone knows the public sector have had it too good for too long , with their over inflated pensions and cushty hours. Now they are having to join the real world they are throwing their toys out of the pram . Fair play to the government for turning round the economy and putting the emphasis on a competitve private sector which is the only way to do it really . With a bit of luck we will never have a truly socialist government again in this country along the lines advocated by some of the Eric Heffers on here or we will be in trouble !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:11:47 GMT 1
Downie, I love you to bits you tory arse, but how much would you go into a burning building for? Probably depends on whether his 'I Love Maggie' Annual 1983 is in there. Well went to war for less.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:16:43 GMT 1
Everyone knows the public sector have had it too good for too long , with their over inflated pensions and cushty hours. ! Well there we go, a decent debate ruined by the voice of unadulterated ignorance. Step forward and take a bow jonbond, B&As very own village idiot!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:19:05 GMT 1
Probably depends on whether his 'I Love Maggie' Annual 1983 is in there. Well went to war for less..... Are the British army overpaid Downie?
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 10, 2014 22:20:49 GMT 1
I still can't believe you still see folk with the attitude "if I'm not getting something, why should they". They must be laughing their heads off at the top (whilst calculating their next two digit yearly pay increase of course). Here Here. well said.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jul 10, 2014 22:21:54 GMT 1
Everyone knows the public sector have had it too good for too long , with their over inflated pensions and cushty hours. Now they are having to join the real world they are throwing their toys out of the pram . Fair play to the government for turning round the economy and putting the emphasis on a competitve private sector which is the only way to do it really . With a bit of luck we will never have a truly socialist government again in this country along the lines advocated by some of the Eric Heffers on here or we will be in trouble ! Reminds me of the old Russian joke, which goes something like this: “The peasant Ivan is jealous of his neighbour Boris, because Boris has a goat. A fairy comes along and offers Ivan a single wish. What does he wish for? That Boris’s goat should drop dead.”
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:22:58 GMT 1
Probably not, what used to be prevelant was the junior ranks were poorly paid, senior ranks were well paid. Commanding officers were on 6 figure wages but compared to private sector paid poor for responsibility. But again, I did not join for pay reasons.
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Post by mattmw on Jul 10, 2014 22:25:11 GMT 1
Trouble is its not really a competitive private sector though is it? Without the bail outs using public money the banks would have gone to the wall; the private sector is getting public assets handed to them at values massively below the market rate (Royal Mail, NHS and Criminal justice contracts); then the private sector is getting subsidised labour market through tax credits too.
Essential services are no better or cheaper to run privately all that happen is the top 10% of earners cream off the profits while the rest of the population get shafted.
Certainly don't think socialism is the answer but if we're going to do a free market economy at least do it properly and let private business fail and not use public money to bail it out when they fail
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owdlad
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Post by owdlad on Jul 10, 2014 22:27:10 GMT 1
Meanwhile, MPs are set to have a 11% increase next year taking them to a basic £74,000 plus expenses and allowances. I wonder how many of them would go into a burning building or deal with a fatal multiple car crash?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:27:51 GMT 1
Probably not, what used to be prevelant was the junior ranks were poorly paid, senior ranks were well paid. Commanding officers were on 6 figure wages but compared to private sector paid poor for responsibility. But again, I did not join for pay reasons. Most do though. Also, how on earth can a commanding officer earn more than the prime minister?!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:29:29 GMT 1
That was an argument I put to one of my pompous CO's at a mess do, first time I saw him speechless.....
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jul 10, 2014 22:32:15 GMT 1
One thing I noticed about the strikers marching in Birmingham today compared to a similar gathering three years ago is that the carnival atmosphere has gone.
There are a couple of points I would make questioning things today:
1) I'd replace strike action with a work to rule. The economy generally relies upon unpaid work and this is rife in the public sector.
2)I'd shut up about tax avoidance. Sorting out tax avoidance wouldn't obviate the need for cuts because there is no link between cuts and tax avoidance. Tackling tax avoidance is about fairness and not funding.
3) Talk more about the scandalous pay and conditions in the private sector.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 10, 2014 22:32:32 GMT 1
Downie, I love you to bits you tory arse, but how much would you go into a burning building for? Probably depends on whether his 'I Love Maggie' Annual 1983 is in there. You mentioned Maggie, now my blood pressure is critical again! Maggie ruined this country. "Move to service jobs" Even Osbourne is talking about needing more industry now. "End of school milk" I think it's back now, plus free dinners for 5 to 7's "Sell off the council houses" No social housing now. Evil woman. Did Cliff mean her in his wonderful song, or does he just not really like all women?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 22:35:22 GMT 1
Probably depends on whether his 'I Love Maggie' Annual 1983 is in there. You mentioned Maggie, now my blood pressure is critical again! Maggie ruined this country. "Move to service jobs" Even Osbourne is talking about needing more industry now. "End of school milk" I think it's back now, plus free dinners for 5 to 7's "Sell off the council houses" No social housing now. Evil woman. Did Cliff mean her in his wonderful song, or does he just not really like all women? Maggie (legend) was the best prime minister this country has ever had, we could do with someone with the same attitude now!!
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owdlad
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Post by owdlad on Jul 10, 2014 22:48:44 GMT 1
You mentioned Maggie, now my blood pressure is critical again! Maggie ruined this country. "Move to service jobs" Even Osbourne is talking about needing more industry now. "End of school milk" I think it's back now, plus free dinners for 5 to 7's "Sell off the council houses" No social housing now. Evil woman. Did Cliff mean her in his wonderful song, or does he just not really like all women? Maggie (legend) was the best prime minister this country has ever had, we could do with someone with the same attitude now!! Best prime minister? Some would say that was Churchill. Supermac was pretty good though news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/20/newsid_3728000/3728225.stm
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 10, 2014 22:49:35 GMT 1
You mentioned Maggie, now my blood pressure is critical again! Maggie ruined this country. "Move to service jobs" Even Osbourne is talking about needing more industry now. "End of school milk" I think it's back now, plus free dinners for 5 to 7's "Sell off the council houses" No social housing now. Evil woman. Did Cliff mean her in his wonderful song, or does he just not really like all women? Maggie (legend) was the best prime minister this country has ever had, we could do with someone with the same attitude now!! Sadly the Tory party and its yellow lickspittles are crawling with people of the same '****-you-got-mine', 'greed is good', 'the market will decide' attitude.
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Post by jamo on Jul 10, 2014 22:52:24 GMT 1
Maggie (legend) was the best prime minister this country has ever had, we could do with someone with the same attitude now!! Better than Churchill ? Crikey, that's some accolade.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 23:04:51 GMT 1
Maggie (legend) was the best prime minister this country has ever had, we could do with someone with the same attitude now!! Better than Churchill ? Crikey, that's some accolade. But well deserved and earned
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 10, 2014 23:15:32 GMT 1
Better than Churchill ? Crikey, that's some accolade. But well deserved and earned Both Churchill and Maggie governed during this countries darkest days, but Churchill got us out of them and Maggie got us into them.
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