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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 23:39:25 GMT 1
Just as a side show to the love in for the public sectors so called unfair lack of a pay increase.
The company I work for has administrators waiting in the wings to wind it up with the potential loss of 1500 jobs. Hopefully a buyer will save the day but just at this point in time seeing that lot in Birmingham makes me wretch.
They should be glad of a job, simples.
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Post by ferkle94 on Jul 12, 2014 0:33:49 GMT 1
The thing that always strikes me with parents of kids who get a day off due to strikes is that they don't complain about their child not receiving a day of important education, it's that they're inconvenienced by their child having to be looked after!
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Post by shrewed46 on Jul 12, 2014 6:57:33 GMT 1
Just as a side show to the love in for the public sectors so called unfair lack of a pay increase. The company I work for has administrators waiting in the wings to wind it up with the potential loss of 1500 jobs. Hopefully a buyer will save the day but just at this point in time seeing that lot in Birmingham makes me wretch. They should be glad of a job, simples. I am sorry that the company you work for is in administration and your job is at risk, however your apparent belief that all public servants should be grateful they have a job and should kowtow and accept whatever conditions the Government want makes me want to wretch. Over the last 4 years I believe over a million people have lost their jobs in the public sector with the result that many of those dependent upon public services are receiving a far worse service than they did or deserve. I also believe that many local authorities are now being forced to reduce their workforce further. One day I hope that private and public sectors will unite to fight their common enemy unscrupulous capitalism.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 12, 2014 8:37:53 GMT 1
Just as a side show to the love in for the public sectors so called unfair lack of a pay increase. They should be glad of a job, simples. I think you'll find find that there's a lot more to these strikes than the lack of a pay rise. My daughter has been through three restructures in the last four years, her pension provision is being whittled away, she has larger and larger caseloads, less support from a smaller team of support workers and ever greater admin duties and all with the added bonus of minimal or no pay rises. Do you want the control of your health and welfare, your kids and grandkids education, your parents retirement, etc to be in the hands of professionals that care or in the hands of people that are just glad to have a job, any job? Many of us on here have been through redundancy and I do feel for your current situation, but being bitter towards those that are fighting to keep the services that we all pay for and expect is a little narrow minded in my opinion. Maybe when the whole welfare system collapses and the Tories have sold it all off to their mates and everything is available at a price (like the good old US of A) you will look back on this thread and wonder. Best of luck with your job situation
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 10:34:16 GMT 1
How on earth did a discussion about the strikes based on central government policy to hold back public sector pay as a clear policy, end with Downie withering on about the welfare state and waifs and strays in society. Jesus Christ. Did not realise that a conversation is not allowed to diversify a little, and progress, perhaps that says more about you than me.
FWIW the restructures every year are what is costing loads of money and introduces waste. Before my wife was made redundant by the NHS it changed its title 3 times in 4 years, and hundreds of thousands of just stationary was wasted (Sorry welshshrew, realise its not about strikes, but there is some relevance)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 10:57:14 GMT 1
How on earth did a discussion about the strikes based on central government policy to hold back public sector pay as a clear policy, end with Downie withering on about the welfare state and waifs and strays in society. Jesus Christ. Did not realise that a conversation is not allowed to diversify a little, and progress, perhaps that says more about you than me.
FWIW the restructures every year are what is costing loads of money and introduces waste. Before my wife was made redundant by the NHS it changed its title 3 times in 4 years, and hundreds of thousands of just stationary was wasted (Sorry welshshrew, realise its not about strikes, but there is some relevance)
But what you are talking about is insignificant in a wider context. Yes of course there is fraud and error, as there is in all large bureaucratic organisations. The latest figures provided by the government show that 2% of the total spend is in error. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/322480/nsf-final-230614.pdfThe dicussion isn’t about ‘waifs and strays ‘and a single part of the system, which as pointed out by Shambles has many facets, but the wider impact on providers and users.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 11:02:44 GMT 1
May be insignificant in your opinion, but in mine, its all relevant, as the people who really need the care are generally behind those that play and clog the systems. But each to their own eh.
2% in error, maybe, how much in fraud, and then you have the un required spend and waste.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 12:08:30 GMT 1
Then by making Cut backs and allowing the services to degenerate then Fraud and People who are ''undeserving''in your words will find it easier to ''work the system''and therefore will be in it longer,allowing those in need to miss out getting clogged up in the Paperwork that is taking longer to clear. Although if you think cutting and Sacking say 1 member of staff on £25,000 p.a is worth it if means £15,000's worth of benefits go to a wrong person represents value for money.Then the Government should admit it rather than turning Public Sector V Private V Benefit claimants.
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 12, 2014 12:33:35 GMT 1
Really this so called coalition government are shafting everyone whether they be in the private or public sector in some way. The reason for this is that they simply don't care about anything but themselves, their power, their perks and anything else you care to name and they haven't done so since day one.
They really are the biggest load of Jerks we have ever had running our country that I can ever remember. Tories who don't care about the vulnerable backed up by a party who really don't know what they believe any more - they will just sell themselves to the highest bidder!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 12:45:13 GMT 1
May be insignificant in your opinion, but in mine, its all relevant, as the people who really need the care are generally behind those that play and clog the systems. But each to their own eh. 2% in error, maybe, how much in fraud, and then you have the un required spend and waste. The amount lost to fraud is contained in the link. As for a clogged up system, when we used the system to claim DLA for my son we it found surprisingly quick and efficient. This is despite the scrutiny required to make sure my wife and I weren’t making a false claim.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 12, 2014 13:34:35 GMT 1
it's a classic race to the bottom.
We all moan about the cost of living crisis and low wages but so many of us flock to hard discounters for food and Primark for clothes, without ever seeing the connection with the wider economy. The same applies to the public sector; "pay peanuts, get monkeys." When most admin, clerical staff in local councils are already on £16k - £18k (whoever said £25k above for someone processing benefit claims is living in a fantasy world) with no career progression or training in sight and minimal pay increases, struggling to pay the bills and constantly told how lazy and cossetted they are and just how badly they need to learn to live in the real world, exactly how motivated do you realistically think they'll be to process an invoice correctly or accurately stop a JSA claim at the right moment? Apply that same logic to front line staff and you're heading for catastrophe.
Plato foresaw this problem in his 'Republic', and came up with the context of 'the noble lie'; the line we feed agents of the state to stop them holding us to ransom; that they're working for the greater good, that we respect them, that they're the salt of the earth.
In an increasingly secular society, this is getting harder to peddle. People are less vocational and more nakedly materialistic. They want to do a job they believe in, but they expect to be compensated fairly for it, and rightly so. The response they get? Teachers are all lazy with great holidays; police sit around eating donuts and only use their sirens to get back to the station quicker; Council workers all knock off early and fiddle their flexi-time (when they're not off sick that is). Until you need one to process your daughter's ESA claim, get your kid through his GCSEs, catch the scrote who broke into your house last week. Then we expect them to be unimpeachable saints.
The sums in dispute are so trifling that if you put them in the context of say, the amount the government spends in pensions, or the amount the government let Vodafone get with not paying in Corporation Tax (roughly about 20% of the annual spend on local government, if you're interested) then no one could sensibly dispute the strikers' claims.
But this debate isn't about context, it's everything to do with wilful ignorance and blind adherence to nonsensical, ideological dogma, repeated parrot fashion in pubs and online forums. The bleating Daily mail readers and UKIPpers, easily won over by a juicy headline figure without any interest in what it really means beyond it's use to justify their vindictive bitterness.
The real 'something for nothing' culture isn't in benefit claimants, it's in a society which expects to retain top class public services without gratitude or compensation. We need a drastic shift in priorities in this country; many people's monthly Sky bill is not far off their Council Tax bill but which do you think they resent most?
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Post by shrewsace on Jul 12, 2014 14:52:34 GMT 1
18% of people participated in the strike yesterday according to reports. Trade unions in this country will soon be as dead as Bob Crow. In other news a turkey was said to be eagerly anticipating Christmas.
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Post by buryshrew on Jul 12, 2014 15:09:09 GMT 1
it's a classic race to the bottom. We all moan about the cost of living crisis and low wages but so many of us flock to hard discounters for food and Primark for clothes, without ever seeing the connection with the wider economy. The same applies to the public sector; "pay peanuts, get monkeys." When most admin, clerical staff in local councils are already on £16k - £18k (whoever said £25k above for someone processing benefit claims is living in a fantasy world) with no career progression or training in sight and minimal pay increases, struggling to pay the bills and constantly told how lazy and cossetted they are and just how badly they need to learn to live in the real world, exactly how motivated do you realistically think they'll be to process an invoice correctly or accurately stop a JSA claim at the right moment? Apply that same logic to front line staff and you're heading for catastrophe. Plato foresaw this problem in his 'Republic', and came up with the context of 'the noble lie'; the line we feed agents of the state to stop them holding us to ransom; that they're working for the greater good, that we respect them, that they're the salt of the earth. In an increasingly secular society, this is getting harder to peddle. People are less vocational and more nakedly materialistic. They want to do a job they believe in, but they expect to be compensated fairly for it, and rightly so. The response they get? Teachers are all lazy with great holidays; police sit around eating donuts and only use their sirens to get back to the station quicker; Council workers all knock off early and fiddle their flexi-time (when they're not off sick that is). Until you need one to process your daughter's ESA claim, get your kid through his GCSEs, catch the scrote who broke into your house last week. Then we expect them to be unimpeachable saints. The sums in dispute are so trifling that if you put them in the context of say, the amount the government spends in pensions, or the amount the government let Vodafone get with not paying in Corporation Tax (roughly about 20% of the annual spend on local government, if you're interested) then no one could sensibly dispute the strikers' claims. But this debate isn't about context, it's everything to do with wilful ignorance and blind adherence to nonsensical, ideological dogma, repeated parrot fashion in pubs and online forums. The bleating Daily mail readers and UKIPpers, easily won over by a juicy headline figure without any interest in what it really means beyond it's use to justify their vindictive bitterness. The real 'something for nothing' culture isn't in benefit claimants, it's in a society which expects to retain top class public services without gratitude or compensation. We need a drastic shift in priorities in this country; many people's monthly Sky bill is not far off their Council Tax bill but which do you think they resent most? Extremely well put. And very much in line with my own views. I'm sick of all the ongoing bitterness between left and right over trifling amounts while Vodafone, Amazon and the rest continue to bleed the country dry, the government does f- all to address it and the general public continue to hand their money over to them. People are extremely moralistic until they can save a quid on a computer game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 17:05:52 GMT 1
it's a classic race to the bottom. We all moan about the cost of living crisis and low wages but so many of us flock to hard discounters for food and Primark for clothes, without ever seeing the connection with the wider economy. The same applies to the public sector; "pay peanuts, get monkeys." When most admin, clerical staff in local councils are already on £16k - £18k (whoever said £25k above for someone processing benefit claims is living in a fantasy world) with no career progression or training in sight and minimal pay increases, struggling to pay the bills and constantly told how lazy and cossetted they are and just how badly they need to learn to live in the real world, exactly how motivated do you realistically think they'll be to process an invoice correctly or accurately stop a JSA claim at the right moment? Apply that same logic to front line staff and you're heading for catastrophe. Plato foresaw this problem in his 'Republic', and came up with the context of 'the noble lie'; the line we feed agents of the state to stop them holding us to ransom; that they're working for the greater good, that we respect them, that they're the salt of the earth. In an increasingly secular society, this is getting harder to peddle. People are less vocational and more nakedly materialistic. They want to do a job they believe in, but they expect to be compensated fairly for it, and rightly so. The response they get? Teachers are all lazy with great holidays; police sit around eating donuts and only use their sirens to get back to the station quicker; Council workers all knock off early and fiddle their flexi-time (when they're not off sick that is). Until you need one to process your daughter's ESA claim, get your kid through his GCSEs, catch the scrote who broke into your house last week. Then we expect them to be unimpeachable saints. The sums in dispute are so trifling that if you put them in the context of say, the amount the government spends in pensions, or the amount the government let Vodafone get with not paying in Corporation Tax (roughly about 20% of the annual spend on local government, if you're interested) then no one could sensibly dispute the strikers' claims. But this debate isn't about context, it's everything to do with wilful ignorance and blind adherence to nonsensical, ideological dogma, repeated parrot fashion in pubs and online forums. The bleating Daily mail readers and UKIPpers, easily won over by a juicy headline figure without any interest in what it really means beyond it's use to justify their vindictive bitterness. The real 'something for nothing' culture isn't in benefit claimants, it's in a society which expects to retain top class public services without gratitude or compensation. We need a drastic shift in priorities in this country; many people's monthly Sky bill is not far off their Council Tax bill but which do you think they resent most? Sir (or possibly madam) I sincerely hope that's your own work because I genuinely feel it to be one of the best posts I've seen in a very long time!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 17:12:40 GMT 1
18% of people participated in the strike yesterday according to reports. Trade unions in this country will soon be as dead as Bob Crow. In other news a turkey was said to be eagerly anticipating Christmas. Don't feed the troll.
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Post by jamo on Jul 12, 2014 20:32:04 GMT 1
In other news a turkey was said to be eagerly anticipating Christmas. Don't feed the troll. Agreed. Most people have caught on.
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