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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2013 16:52:46 GMT 1
Bigger things to worry about I’d class as going out of business/having a fascist as manager/dodgy owners pinching money, that sort of thing. Not too much of that going on at STFC, so those that like complaining are free to focus their anger on what the badge looks like and what colour the team play in. That is exactly the same line of reasoning the club use when people ask why the toilets have no hot water. "At least you don't have to pee in the river" The truth is we never had to pee in the river, we only did because the club had not/could not invest in better facilities for us. We should not have to worry about our football club going out of business. We should not have to worry about a fascist manager. We should not have to worry about dodgy owners stealing money. We should not have to complain about our badge. None of those things are a given, or even an expectation, of a well run club. Yeovil are in the League One play offs, playing in green and white, with their traditional badge. Your logic does not flow. "The queues for the west stand buffets are terrible" "Yeah, but at least you did not get murdered yesterday"
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 16:58:38 GMT 1
Just you keep telling yourself that. Old Roland probably just likes winding the likes of you up. #lather
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:02:05 GMT 1
Aside from "it's only a badge", "other clubs have bigger things to worry about" and " da players are more important innit" can anyone offer a single reason why we shouldn't reinstate the Loggerheads? In the old days there'd have been dozens of false excuses touted by club apologists. We've come a long way folks. Yeah this is the sort of thing I was on about – “shameful corporate logo” - phraseology that creates the impression some of those obsessed with the badge change are morons who have worked themselves into a lather. The type of thing which has probably delayed any change for at least a couple of seasons. I can assure you that I am perfectly calm. In my opinion, the way the club went about introducing a standalone corporate logo with no connection to our identity was - and still is - shameful. The fact that you've got a few STFC supporters like yourself who seemingly aren't bothered speaks volumes for the state of modern football in this country. Our identity is a priceless commodity, not something to be Whored out or disregarded because of bigger problems facing other football clubs or the emerging managerial career of Paolo Di Canio.
I doubt that impassioned postings about the badge issue will delay the cause in any way. How would you go about it? Wait patiently? The new badge was introduced in 2007. It is now 2013 and there will be a new clip art strip until 2015 at the earliest. That's an awful long time to be lumbered with one of the worst emblems in football league history. It is little wonder that people are getting irritated when they see the professionalism and diligence displayed by the likes of Crystal Palace.
Reasoned argument lies firmly with the pro-Loggerheads camp.
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Post by Fingers on May 8, 2013 17:06:16 GMT 1
Worst badge in football wouldn't be wide of the mark.
However under 'Clippy' we have played at Wembley, recorded our highest points tally ever and finished in our highest league position in a generation.
Is Clippy our most successful badge in terms of winning percentages?
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 17:08:01 GMT 1
Bigger things to worry about I’d class as going out of business/having a fascist as manager/dodgy owners pinching money, that sort of thing. Not too much of that going on at STFC, so those that like complaining are free to focus their anger on what the badge looks like and what colour the team play in. That is exactly the same line of reasoning the club use when people ask why the toilets have no hot water. "At least you don't have to pee in the river" The truth is we never had to pee in the river, we only did because the club had not/could not invest in better facilities for us. We should not have to worry about our football club going out of business. We should not have to worry about a fascist manager. We should not have to worry about dodgy owners stealing money. We should not have to complain about our badge. None of those things are a given, or even an expectation, of a well run club. Yeovil are in the League One play offs, playing in green and white, with their traditional badge. Your logic does not flow. "The queues for the west stand buffets are terrible" "Yeah, but at least you did not get murdered yesterday" You contradict yourself in the bit about peeing in the river. Also don't see the relevance of your invented exchange and the logic you refer to is not any that I've used. However, if someone had been complaining about the queues for the west stand buffet non stop for 5 years, started referring to the queues as a "shameful herding of followers" then I might ask them to give it a rest as it is was getting boring. This wouldn't necessarilly mean that I enjoyed queueing for buffets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:09:07 GMT 1
However under 'Clippy' we have played at Wembley, recorded our highest points tally ever and finished in our highest league position in a generation. A bizarre and unhelpful hypothesis.
A badge has absolutely no connection to on-the-pitch fortunes. We could have been represented by a picture of Peter Sutcliffe and we'd have still got to Wembley, recorded our highest points tally and finished in our highest league position in a generation.
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Post by Fingers on May 8, 2013 17:12:45 GMT 1
However under 'Clippy' we have played at Wembley, recorded our highest points tally ever and finished in our highest league position in a generation.
A bizarre and unhelpful hypothesis.
A badge has absolutely no connection to on-the-pitch fortunes. We could have been represented by a picture of Peter Sutcliffe and we'd have still got to Wembley, recorded our highest points tally and finished in our highest league position in a generation. Except we didn't have PS and my post is factual. Perhaps the increase in merchandise sales funded the playoff and promotion campaigns. Speaking of facts, are there any figures for merchandise sales banging around anywhere which show the last 10 years worth of sales?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:18:46 GMT 1
A bizarre and unhelpful hypothesis. Perhaps the increase in merchandise sales funded the playoff and promotion campaigns. Fascinating theory but any "increase in merchandise sales" will not have been sparked by the arrival of the clip art logo. Any such increase would be attributed to the ground move/return of a popular blue and amber striped shirt.
The new badge has deterred many people from buying STFC products, and not the other way around.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 17:29:32 GMT 1
Yeah this is the sort of thing I was on about – “shameful corporate logo” - phraseology that creates the impression some of those obsessed with the badge change are morons who have worked themselves into a lather. The type of thing which has probably delayed any change for at least a couple of seasons. I can assure you that I am perfectly calm. In my opinion, the way the club went about introducing a standalone corporate logo with no connection to our identity was - and still is - shameful. The fact that you've got a few STFC supporters like yourself who seemingly aren't bothered speaks volumes for the state of modern football in this country. Our identity is a priceless commodity, not something to be Whored out or disregarded because of bigger problems facing other football clubs or the emerging managerial career of Paolo Di Canio.
I doubt that impassioned postings about the badge issue will delay the cause in any way. How would you go about it? Wait patiently? The new badge was introduced in 2007. It is now 2013 and there will be a new clip art strip until 2015 at the earliest. That's an awful long time to be lumbered with one of the worst emblems in football league history. It is little wonder that people are getting irritated when they see the professionalism and diligence displayed by the likes of Crystal Palace.
Reasoned argument lies firmly with the pro-Loggerheads camp. I wasn't referring to your actual state, just the impression given by the language. Wasn't the new logo an attempt to create a new image for the new stadium? Can understand why they might try it, even if you/I don't agree with it, don't like the badge and it hasn't really worked out - plenty of other clubs have re-badged. As for STFC's own history, identity and tradition - they've changed kit colour and badge so often an argument could be made that introducing the new badge was in keeping with this. "Shameful", "volumes about modern football", "Whored out" more hysterical sounding drivel. Wherever reasoned argument lies, I certainly don't think it's with you.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:36:12 GMT 1
Your logic does not flow. However, if someone had been complaining about the queues for the west stand buffet non stop for 5 years, started referring to the queues as a "shameful herding of followers" then I might ask them to give it a rest as it is was getting boring. This wouldn't necessarilly mean that I enjoyed queueing for buffets. If we have to go down the west stand buffet queues analogy, a more appropriate one would be:
The club have a perfectly adequate queuing system. Everyone is happy.
In 2007, they replace it amongst a host of mistruths. The replacement is poor and irritates many people. Some don’t care as they’d be happy to stand queuing in a sewer as long as it was what STFC officials wanted. Some even have pictures of the woeful new queuing system tattooed on their bodies, or as their profile pictures on Facebook.
Five years of debate and polite tutting about the poor queuing system is ignored by the club. A passionate campaign emerges aimed at restoring the queuing system to the way it once was. The club finally agree to look into this, although some continue to doubt whether this may be a stalling tactic.
You acknowledge that you would rather the queuing system reverted back to its old ways but, in the same mouthful, criticise the rhetoric used. The very same strength of feeling which has resulted in the club pledging that the unpopular queuing system will be phased out in the “near future”. You accuse those making such comments of “delaying” the return of the old queuing system, even though you have contributed absolutely nothing towards it yourself and will enjoy the benefits of the change when it eventually happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:43:40 GMT 1
I can assure you that I am perfectly calm. Wasn't the new logo an attempt to create a new image for the new stadium? Can understand why they might try it, even if you/I don't agree with it, don't like the badge and it hasn't really worked out - plenty of other clubs have re-badged. The new badge was a deliberate attempt to distance the new commercial STFC from the club of the past.
You're right in saying that many clubs have re-badged, although none have cocked up the process quite as badly as STFC. Even Everton's leaked new logo - which was panned by their supporters - at least managed to retain a semblance of their identity.
We are all human and honest mistakes can be forgiven. However, my real annoyance lies with the fact that the club are still yet to rectify this mistake (it's been over six years now) and are about to commission a brand new kit which features the very same logo which they know is hugely unpopular.
Still, that's only my opinion. I prefer the Loggerheads and you clearly have a soft spot for the clip art logo. We are never going to agree.
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Post by Chic on May 8, 2013 17:49:46 GMT 1
Perhaps the increase in merchandise sales funded the playoff and promotion campaigns. The new badge has deterred many people from buying STFC products, and not the other way around. Add me to that I haven't spent a penny in the club shop since the clipart badge.. and I won't until the loggerheads are used again!
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2013 18:45:02 GMT 1
No I don't - I quote the club line then explain why it is not true. Your logic all along is "at least that is the smallest thing you have to worry about", when all of the examples of "bigger" issues we might have to deal with are not within the confines of what a football supporter should reasonably expect from a well run club. If I went into Tesco and said "This bread is not fresh" I would not expect them to say "At least it does not contain glass". Nor is "at least we don't have a foreign owner stealing money" a reasonable argument for maintaining a rubbish badge which many fans don't like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 19:05:20 GMT 1
You contradict yourself in the bit about peeing in the river. If I went into Tesco and said "This bread is not fresh" I would not expect them to say "At least it does not contain glass". Another excellent analogy. I'll run with it.
You walk into Tesco and inform them that a rival supermarket have managed to produce a far superior loaf of bread to the version you've been subjected to for six long years. You basically want to know why your local supermarket couldn't have done the same.
All of a sudden, devonwhitesprowess jumps out from a nearby isle and accuses you of being "boring" and "carping on". He recommends that you allow Tesco another 2 years (minimum) to correct an error which was theirs in the first place.
In the conversation that follows devonwhitesprowess concedes that he too would prefer a fresh piece of bread to the current unsatisfactory option. If that is the truly the case, his time would be better spent adding his voice to the growing discontent rather than undermining those who ultimately voice the same opinion.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 8, 2013 19:07:17 GMT 1
I can't wait for the loggerheads return, (which it will), so that I can tell people to "move on".
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Post by heavyglow on May 8, 2013 19:21:04 GMT 1
If I went into Tesco and said "This bread is not fresh" I would not expect them to say "At least it does not contain glass". Another excellent analogy. I'll run with it.
You walk into Tesco and inform them that a rival supermarket have managed to produce a far superior loaf of bread to the version you've been subjected to for six long years. You basically want to know why your local supermarket couldn't have done the same.
All of a sudden, devonwhitesprowess jumps out from a nearby isle and accuses you of being "boring" and "carping on". He recommends that you allow Tesco another 2 years (minimum) to correct an error which was theirs in the first place.
In the conversation that follows devonwhitesprowess concedes that he too would prefer a fresh piece of bread to the current unsatisfactory option. If that is the truly the case, his time would be better spent adding his voice to the growing discontent rather than undermining those who ultimately voice the same opinion. Good point well made. I'd be very curious as to whether those in power could run the stats on how many pro-Clippy posting guests in the past few days are full members posting under an alternative pseudonym. Also to give Devon White some credit, at least he: a) Has repeatedly stated he prefers the Loggerheads b) Isn't taking the weak option of posting as a Guest As an aside, I wish they introduced these "isles" in my supermarket.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2013 19:36:23 GMT 1
Also to give Devon White some credit, at least he: a) Has repeatedly stated he prefers the Loggerheads Which sort of begs the question doesn't it. "I agree with you, I'm just going to pick imaginary holes in what you say anyway" seems an odd form of agreement. Or is it a ruse to make their criticism more palatable?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 19:52:22 GMT 1
Also to give Devon White some credit, at least he has repeatedly stated he prefers the Loggerheads "I agree with you, I'm just going to pick imaginary holes in what you say anyway" seems an odd form of agreement. "I agree with what you want, but how dare you continually post it on a supporters' messageboard." For my money, an apologist in denial.
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Post by floreat2 on May 8, 2013 20:38:24 GMT 1
Pinched from the historical kits site.
The flamboyent Malcolm Allison was brought in as manager in late 1973 and while he could not keep the club in the Second Division, he did transform them, laying the foundations for future success. Out went the old badge and nickname to be replaced by the more dramatic "Eagles." The traditional claret and light blue colours were ditched in favour of red and blue.
To add to what would now be called a re-branding exercise, numbers were worn on shirt sleeves in 1973-74 and the following season the new badge adorned the sleeves instead.
KL8 couldn't have chosen a better example of a club re-branding. Not only did Palace abandon their historical badge, they also completely changed their kit and even the club nickname. The eagle previously had nothing to do with Crystal Palace, it was the 1973 equivilent of a piece of clipart.
In short, Palace did everything that KL8 stands against. They have now gone back to something from a previous badge, but retained the "clipart" eagle. The equivilent of Town bringing back a badge with the bend in the severn, but adding Lenny the logo's head to it.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:26:12 GMT 1
Also to give Devon White some credit, at least he: a) Has repeatedly stated he prefers the Loggerheads Which sort of begs the question doesn't it. "I agree with you, I'm just going to pick imaginary holes in what you say anyway" Don't flatter yourself - the holes picked aren't imaginery.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:26:53 GMT 1
However, if someone had been complaining about the queues for the west stand buffet non stop for 5 years, started referring to the queues as a "shameful herding of followers" then I might ask them to give it a rest as it is was getting boring. This wouldn't necessarilly mean that I enjoyed queueing for buffets. If we have to go down the west stand buffet queues analogy, a more appropriate one would be:
The club have a perfectly adequate queuing system. Everyone is happy.
In 2007, they replace it amongst a host of mistruths. The replacement is poor and irritates many people. Some don’t care as they’d be happy to stand queuing in a sewer as long as it was what STFC officials wanted. Some even have pictures of the woeful new queuing system tattooed on their bodies, or as their profile pictures on Facebook.
Five years of debate and polite tutting about the poor queuing system is ignored by the club. A passionate campaign emerges aimed at restoring the queuing system to the way it once was. The club finally agree to look into this, although some continue to doubt whether this may be a stalling tactic.
You acknowledge that you would rather the queuing system reverted back to its old ways but, in the same mouthful, criticise the rhetoric used. The very same strength of feeling which has resulted in the club pledging that the unpopular queuing system will be phased out in the “near future”. You accuse those making such comments of “delaying” the return of the old queuing system, even though you have contributed absolutely nothing towards it yourself and will enjoy the benefits of the change when it eventually happens. Drivel
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:29:14 GMT 1
No I don't - I quote the club line then explain why it is not true. Your logic all along is "at least that is the smallest thing you have to worry about", when all of the examples of "bigger" issues we might have to deal with are not within the confines of what a football supporter should reasonably expect from a well run club. If I went into Tesco and said "This bread is not fresh" I would not expect them to say "At least it does not contain glass". Nor is "at least we don't have a foreign owner stealing money" a reasonable argument for maintaining a rubbish badge which many fans don't like. You do contradict yourself - poor sentence structure on the original post. Going off on one again re tesco - imagined arguments with yourself don't prove anything.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:30:50 GMT 1
However, if someone had been complaining about the queues for the west stand buffet non stop for 5 years, started referring to the queues as a "shameful herding of followers" then I might ask them to give it a rest as it is was getting boring. This wouldn't necessarilly mean that I enjoyed queueing for buffets. If we have to go down the west stand buffet queues analogy, a more appropriate one would be:
The club have a perfectly adequate queuing system. Everyone is happy.
In 2007, they replace it amongst a host of mistruths. The replacement is poor and irritates many people. Some don’t care as they’d be happy to stand queuing in a sewer as long as it was what STFC officials wanted. Some even have pictures of the woeful new queuing system tattooed on their bodies, or as their profile pictures on Facebook.
Five years of debate and polite tutting about the poor queuing system is ignored by the club. A passionate campaign emerges aimed at restoring the queuing system to the way it once was. The club finally agree to look into this, although some continue to doubt whether this may be a stalling tactic.
You acknowledge that you would rather the queuing system reverted back to its old ways but, in the same mouthful, criticise the rhetoric used. The very same strength of feeling which has resulted in the club pledging that the unpopular queuing system will be phased out in the “near future”. You accuse those making such comments of “delaying” the return of the old queuing system, even though you have contributed absolutely nothing towards it yourself and will enjoy the benefits of the change when it eventually happens. "West stand buffet route" not my analogy. Haven't bothered reading the rest of this particular post. Seemed to be heading off in a weird direction.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:33:10 GMT 1
"I agree with you, I'm just going to pick imaginary holes in what you say anyway" seems an odd form of agreement. "I agree with what you want, but how dare you continually post it on a supporters' messageboard." For my money, an apologist in denial. Hysterical tone & repetitive theme source of objection. If you're going to quote me would prefer it to be things I'd actually said instead of invented/imagined rubbish.
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Post by devonwhitesprowess on May 8, 2013 21:34:16 GMT 1
Right, that's enough from me for today. T'ra
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saleshrew
Midland League Division One
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Post by saleshrew on May 8, 2013 21:39:51 GMT 1
I wanna live like common people. I wanna do whatever common people do. I wanna live like common people, Common people like you... Didn't Mr Farage do quite well recently though... A voice for the common people at long last... And besides another B&A user has snapped up the Nige' avatar... I'm not sure what this post is referring to. I gave up reading this thread on the basis its full of incoherent rants from all sides. Its beyond me how anyone's got time in the day to involve themselves in such lengthy keyboard arguments. Are there a lot of lottery winners and students on here or what? I quite like the Shrew badge from the 1980's. Not keen on Clippy. And yeah, the Loggerheads is the the original and best. That said, if we like badges named after pubs - why don't we get one with like Charles Darwin on it or something? Better still. A Clip Art Nigel Farrage. As the poster here said - he's a winner. Sure I can work one up for Roland....
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Post by Valerioch on May 8, 2013 21:40:05 GMT 1
Another new poster on this board to be a clip art apologist. Watch those IP addresses Pilch
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Post by floreat2 on May 8, 2013 22:01:59 GMT 1
Shouldn't upset too many though. Agreed. It would have been interesting to note their fans' reaction if CPFC had unveiled a new standalone logo featuring an animal with no connection to their club's identity, e.g. a raccoon or a walrus. That's exactly what they did in 1973.
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The Voice Of Reason
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Post by The Voice Of Reason on May 8, 2013 22:29:16 GMT 1
... In my opinion, the way the club went about introducing a standalone corporate logo with no connection to our identity was - and still is - shameful. ... To be fair to the club, the claim that the lion has no connection with Shrewsbury is debateable. According to this site (scroll to the bottom), the Badge (not crest) of the old Shrewsbury Borough contains a single lion and whether you believe the loggerheads comprises leopards or lions, you only have to look at the banner of this site to see it depicted as three lions (I’m no felinologist but male lions have manes, leopards do not). ... I doubt that impassioned postings about the badge issue will delay the cause in any way. How would you go about it? ... You could try toning down the rhetoric and as a step in the right direction press through the fans forum for a batch of alternative adult shirts to be made available through the club shop with a retro loggerheads in place of the lion roundel. If the loggerheads version was overwhelmingly favoured by the fans (as it presumably would be) the business case would be made and change should flow.
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Post by DF on May 8, 2013 22:38:19 GMT 1
We've had that argument before chap (before Clippy!). They're not manes, they're 'resplendent' or something. I forget the actual term as it was a log time ago but certainly not manes whatever they look like.
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