|
Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 3, 2012 23:43:04 GMT 1
Thank you so much. That has taken my breath away. Brilliant.
|
|
|
Post by sgd on Jun 3, 2012 23:46:10 GMT 1
Thanks very much for taking the time to get involved.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 23:46:33 GMT 1
Some very good designs there, and good to see that Ian and the club are listening.. Good by STFC.
Definitely a step forward, for those fans who feel particularly strongly about it.
|
|
|
Post by TheFoz on Jun 3, 2012 23:47:07 GMT 1
brilliant designs on those two badges
|
|
|
Post by markglasgow on Jun 3, 2012 23:49:27 GMT 1
Many thanks DH. Great to hear that the club have been in contact and channels of communication have opened. We all want what's best for the club, however as fans with differing opinions we many not always see eye to eye with each other. The debate has been very healthy and it's marvellous to see that progress of sorts has been made.
The designs above are superb and makes our current poor crest look amateurish. Here's hoping that you can help the club achieve what we ALL want, a way to increase profitability AND a way to keep the majority of fans happy.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Jun 3, 2012 23:51:39 GMT 1
the top one is nice and yet its not a lot different to clippy, i think its due to it being clip art that is the main problem, such tackiness and lack of thought gone into it (clippy i mean)
its got to be the other design for me, the group of 3 is what i think we all want back and know as the loggerheads
i wouldn't want the club to spent too much money on giving us a version of our old badge back though, i noticed you've left it at 'contact us for a quote' when you could have hinted at a rough cost
suggests its not cheap
|
|
|
Post by almightybob on Jun 4, 2012 0:03:30 GMT 1
I dont want to cause any offence to you but I don't like the lion, it looks to me a little too cartoonish and I also think there is too much mane.
One of the criticisms of the new badge "clippy" is that a lion is not a loggerhead, apparently a loggerhead is a leopard according to a link another poster posted.
Another criticism made was that there is no need to put STFC and Shrewsbury town on the badge as they mean the same thing.
Is it true that you are a Town fan?
May I ask if you were asked to do this? A cynical person may say that it's good PR for a design company to get involved in a campaign like this, would you agree with that?
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Jun 4, 2012 0:09:32 GMT 1
cheers for the pm and quote quite surprising and nowhere near as much as i thought if the club don't take the opportunity to implement this next time a kit is due then i think its just an own goal on their part all those against clippy would probably be wearing that asap and that alone would more than cover costs in a matter of days i guess
|
|
|
Post by markglasgow on Jun 4, 2012 0:13:25 GMT 1
I dont want to cause any offence to you but I don't like the lion, it looks to me a little too cartoonish and I also think there is too much mane. One of the criticisms of the new badge "clippy" is that a lion is not a loggerhead, apparently a loggerhead is a leopard according to a link another poster posted. Another criticism made was that there is no need to put STFC and Shrewsbury town on the badge as they mean the same thing. Is it true that you are a Town fan? May I ask if you were asked to do this? A cynical person may say that it's good PR for a design company to get involved in a campaign like this, would you agree with that? 'If anyone has any questions, please direct these to hello@designhappy.co.uk and we will be happy to answer them for you.' Did you take the time to read any of the original post? You really should. You will find answers to most of your questions therein.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Jun 4, 2012 0:20:51 GMT 1
I dont want to cause any offence to you but I don't like the lion, it looks to me a little too cartoonish and I also think there is too much mane. One of the criticisms of the new badge "clippy" is that a lion is not a loggerhead, apparently a loggerhead is a leopard according to a link another poster posted. Another criticism made was that there is no need to put STFC and Shrewsbury town on the badge as they mean the same thing. Is it true that you are a Town fan? May I ask if you were asked to do this? A cynical person may say that it's good PR for a design company to get involved in a campaign like this, would you agree with that? our loggerheads on kits have always looked like lions its only when fans have suddenly thought to look up what loggerheads mean that they stumble across mentions of them possibly being leopards 3 lions for me please, its what i've come to know our badge as, you know the saying leopards can't change their spots
|
|
|
Post by almightybob on Jun 4, 2012 0:26:15 GMT 1
I dont want to cause any offence to you but I don't like the lion, it looks to me a little too cartoonish and I also think there is too much mane. One of the criticisms of the new badge "clippy" is that a lion is not a loggerhead, apparently a loggerhead is a leopard according to a link another poster posted. Another criticism made was that there is no need to put STFC and Shrewsbury town on the badge as they mean the same thing. Is it true that you are a Town fan? May I ask if you were asked to do this? A cynical person may say that it's good PR for a design company to get involved in a campaign like this, would you agree with that? 'If anyone has any questions, please direct these to hello@designhappy.co.uk and we will be happy to answer them for you.' Did you take the time to read any of the original post? You really should. You will find answers to most of your questions therein. I did and none of my questions were answered so I asked them. They have been in touch wit Ian but it doesn't (unless I misread) say whether they were asked to do the concept, it does say that they picked it up from the newspaper though so I suppose that answered that one. It doesn't answer my question about it being good PR to get involved in something like this. So 50/50 I suppose. I know where you stand on the issue and that you feel strongly about it. So could I ask you if you think another lion is what the campaign wanted? To me it isn't, one of the main complaints was that lions have nothing to do with STFC. Considering that two of the points made by supporters of the campaign were not covered by the concept, I don't understand what people like about it. It's not clipart but it's still a lion
|
|
|
Post by almightybob on Jun 4, 2012 0:28:10 GMT 1
I dont want to cause any offence to you but I don't like the lion, it looks to me a little too cartoonish and I also think there is too much mane. One of the criticisms of the new badge "clippy" is that a lion is not a loggerhead, apparently a loggerhead is a leopard according to a link another poster posted. Another criticism made was that there is no need to put STFC and Shrewsbury town on the badge as they mean the same thing. Is it true that you are a Town fan? May I ask if you were asked to do this? A cynical person may say that it's good PR for a design company to get involved in a campaign like this, would you agree with that? our loggerheads on kits have always looked like lions its only when fans have suddenly thought to look up what loggerheads mean that they stumble across mentions of them possibly being leopards 3 lions for me please, its what i've come to know our badge as, you know the saying leopards can't change their spots I don't disagree, I always thought the loggerheads were lions but I'm still not keen on the design of this one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 0:36:09 GMT 1
Designhappy, thank you for producing these two fantastic alternatives to the current clip-art abomination. I think the second as a concept is fantastic; although personally I'd prefer the Loggerheads to be as similar to the old badge (circa 2007) as is possible! Nonetheless, excellent stuff and I only wish that STFC had sought your involvement (rather than logo designer Tony Brooks) with the original process some five years ago.
Would you mind publicly answering the following questions:
1) Have both designs gone through the copyright process?
2) With all your years of experience, do you envisage any problems arising from positioning of the Loggerheads? A senior club employee has constantly claimed that the 'position of the 3 Loggerheads' makes their presence in a copyrightable logo unfeasible. Is this true?
Many thanks and I genuinely appreciate your expertise in this matter.
Bring Back The Loggerheads!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 0:46:15 GMT 1
If you create your own style of loggerhead then you can copyright and place it in any position you see fit. Thank you very much for your quick reply. Exactly as I suspected. Another myth perpetuated by STFC staff has been dispelled by a professional company with 17 years worth of experience.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 0:52:24 GMT 1
2. You cannot copyright a position of a logo as there are many logos with three repeats to them. It is very much how ownable you draw the loggerhead which matters. If you create your own style of loggerhead then you can copyright and place it in any position you see fit. Oh, and just to make 100% sure that I've understood your post correctly... A company could create its own custom Loggerhead and place three of them in the exact triangular formation of the old badge currently displayed in my avatar. They could then copyright this image with absolutely no problems. On a scale of 1-10, how certain are you of this? Many thanks feller!
|
|
|
Post by simianbenzoate on Jun 4, 2012 1:00:02 GMT 1
Thing is, I can't see England ever saying "well, it should be 3 lions, but 3 cats is close enough, right?" Just like i can't see Arsenal ever saying "well, it should be a cannon, but we have a picture of a Uzi 9mm".
As much as i think the "lion" is an easier brand to carry in terms of recognition and usage, i have always held that the important part of the image is specifically the loggerhead. It might be harder to explain, but it IS stfc...and shropshire. I really like that second one - modern, and yet clearly linked to history. But I think the loggerhead issue won't, and shouldn't, go away. It's unique, just like our colours, and should be embraced rather than butchered for the sake of (allegedly) commercial gain and, more likely now, the personal pride of those who can't admit a mistake was made with clippy.
Lenny the Loggerhead may be a stretch, but I feel (absolutely no disrespect intended, he does an incredibly job) the lion aspect there always detracted slightly from the 'unity' of the club branding which is probably more important in these days of commercial-driven football than it has been.
To be honest, I don't think the badge change has or will change anything with regards to merch sales;
1) i can point to a number of people (myself included) who won't buy clippy stuff, and yet can't point to any who would buy clippy where they wouldn't have bought a loggerheads version. 2) It's not like we have massive overseas followings in india, africa etc where rip-off merch is rife and is genuinely detracting from legitimate sales
Anyway, it's all been said before. TL;DR - the second badge ticks nearly every box for me. Colours, style, ethos, heritage. A bit of work and i would wear that with pride.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 1:18:42 GMT 1
The top one with Floreat Salopia below it rather then STFC 1886 would be ideal.
|
|
|
Post by NewportShrews on Jun 4, 2012 1:21:01 GMT 1
Thank you for getting involved...brilliant work.
I really hope STFC see sense here and start this process.
BRING BACK THE LOGGERHEADS!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 1:25:34 GMT 1
I really hope STFC see sense here and start this process. Hopefully the club and its apologists will also have the decency to acknowledge that several of their claims (regarding the alleged incompatibility of the Loggerheads with current copyright regulation) were fundamentally incorrect.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Jun 4, 2012 1:27:19 GMT 1
logos and brand names can be almost the same as others, its only when there is a conflict of business that there becomes a problem apple v apple is the biggest example they got along fine until one decided to move into the music business i think are club are somehow paranoid that our beloved council are going to turn up and suddenly make claim to the loggerheads and close us down all that and we ended up producing a lion that every tom dick and harry uses you couldnt make it up
|
|
|
Post by atcham jack on Jun 4, 2012 2:13:51 GMT 1
many thanks for what you have said and done but sadly your designs still feature a lion or lions. a loggerhead is a leopard and should be designed so. a shrews badge is nothing without 3 leopards or loggerheads and a floreat salopia
sorry to be picky but it has to be as close to the original badge for me please. back to the drawing board please. do not get me wrong , your designs are a major imrovement on clippy but they ain't leopards, sorry
|
|
|
Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 4, 2012 2:44:33 GMT 1
many thanks for what you have said and done but sadly your designs still feature a lion or lions. a loggerhead is a leopard and should be designed so. a shrews badge is nothing without 3 leopards or loggerheads and a floreat salopia sorry to be picky but it has to be as close to the original badge for me please. back to the drawing board please. do not get me wrong , your designs are a major imrovement on clippy but they ain't leopards, sorry Think that is being too picky tbh. The Loggerheads is a heraldic device featuring three big cat heads, often with elongated tongues, in triangle formation. Although it is mostly agreed that they were leopard-based, they have often been drawn to resemble lions. For me, if a design similar to the second one by Design Happy can be drawn up (three cats, two over one, with long protuding tongues) so that it is ownable, then it will be more than enough whether leopards or lions.
|
|
tlw1987
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 194
|
Post by tlw1987 on Jun 4, 2012 3:27:30 GMT 1
I've always said I'm sat on the fence with the badge. I'll always be a proud Shrewsbury fan whatever the badge, but seeing these designs has swung me. Clippy needs to go.
I am not fully supporting a return to the Loggerheads though, I'm supporting a change that doesn't involve a piece of clip art tat. I hope the change happens ASAP and both fans and the club can be happy with what is drawn up and can move on from this.
But as said before, I'm a proud Town fan no matter what. And I always buy merchandise to show my support.
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 4, 2012 7:46:27 GMT 1
That first one could be a "best of both worlds" scenario It does not look so different to the current one as to require changing everything immediately, and becomes a badge " development" rather than a change giving everyone an easier way forward. It is round which is better for embroidery etc It has three heraldic big cats on it; the lion / leopard thing is a bit of a daft argument. the point is having them as heraldic emblems not clipart. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_%28heraldry%29#Lions_vs._Leopardsbasically if the cat is side on with body shown it is called a lion and if it is head on it is called a leopard, but that is more down to french translation than it is to which cat it was supposed to be.
|
|
|
Post by Amsterdammer on Jun 4, 2012 7:58:40 GMT 1
That first one could be a "best of both worlds" scenario It does not look so different to the current one as to require changing everything immediately, and becomes a badge " development" rather than a change giving everyone an easier way forward. I was just thinking the same when I read your post. On the mobile I hadn't seen the extra heads on the side. That's quite clever. Agree the lion argument is also flawed. Although historically it seems they are leopards, on the last loggerheads badge they are clearly lions.
|
|
|
Post by atcham jack on Jun 4, 2012 8:14:39 GMT 1
i was trying not to be too picky but design 3 with lepards rather than lions would be stunning and now that design happy have a foot in the door at the meadow surely progress may be made with the supporters help in encouraging roland and the board to work with design happy to bring a version of our 3 loggerheads and a floreat salopia badge back in say a couple more seasons. design happy you have lit a beacon in shrewsbury, may it burn for ever.
clippy that ruddy awful badge is dead. long live the loggerheads. there may be a shining light at the end of the tunnel. but give it two years.
it is just possible we may need 2 way traffic signals outside the shop when the rush starts.
3 loggerheads and a floreat salopia, roland you will be playing arsenal man city and everton etc within 3 years.so give those moths their freedom, unbolt your padlocked wallet just a little and watch our beloved shrews soar. they have been playing with 3 loggerheads behind their backs for 4 years. come on roland release the loggerheads and allow the shrews to fly with those moths
now was that a moth or the corner of a £50 pound note roland.
think on roland you are an excellent business man and we love you to bits, please give those moths a chance, they should be flying like the shrews. here is anothe chance to star on spring watch!
may we have another club statement please or a bulletin hung on the club saying the club is moving peacefully to a close, as you were the message should read the moths have flown. well done roland, well done shrews. floreat salopia . was that a smile roland or another moth.
finally design happy, many thanks for allowing an old pensioner in devon to have a dream
floreat salopia. now watch the shrews storm league 1, cardiff city wait for us!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 9:05:45 GMT 1
Have always thought the badge doesn't need the S.T.F.C on it anyway - uneccessary
Prefer badge 2 in this case, by a long chalk!
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 4, 2012 9:11:59 GMT 1
Unfortunately, through the use of poor design previously, it looks as though clip art has been used and you are running into legal issues alone by using another persons design. I wonder if that is the case. That is the one thing that really caught my eye in your post... As already mentioned, thanks for coming on here and providing a little background to the concepts you produced. Much appreciated. It's great to hear that the club are happy to discuss this (so well done to Ian for taking time out to chat about this with you). Also, it is also nice to be able to get a little detail regarding the whole process of copyright and what is required (we are really lacking some knowledge on here regarding that). Hope it's not the last time we hear from you anyhows, fingers crossed that we'll be wearing one of your designs in the not so distant future (obviously more work is needed but the second concept you produced is spot on for me)...
|
|
|
Post by buryshrew on Jun 4, 2012 9:55:15 GMT 1
Nothing to add to the above points, just to add my thanks to Design Happy for getting involved, creating something of substance for us to get our teeth into (with so many positives to it... Design 2 for me thanks very much!) and for clarifying a number of points that can only help the cause.
Cheers DH, and hope you get the opportunity to work with the club on this. Also, fair play to Ian and the club if they have and are in any form of discussion.
|
|
|
Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 4, 2012 10:07:54 GMT 1
I love it!
|
|