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Post by Shrewed on Jun 6, 2010 23:34:53 GMT 1
Am I alone in getting fed up with the World Cup and it hasn't even started. It has become a major commercial undertaking which is more to do with making money than about football. Why can't it be a straight knockout cometition? Why do they need to have two rounds of mini leagues? Its all about making money just like the Champions League an association to make the big clubs richer that will ultimately destroy football.
What are Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs champions of nothing, the Champions league should return to being the European Cup with only the champions of each national league qualifying. Surely that would make the national leagues more competitive.
Television is strangling football in England the sooner the clubs break that stranglehold the better for the game.
Rant Over.
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Post by monkee on Jun 6, 2010 23:44:09 GMT 1
Am I alone in getting fed up with the World Cup and it hasn't even started. It has become a major commercial undertaking which is more to do with making money than about football. Why can't it be a straight knockout cometition? Why do they need to have two rounds of mini leagues? Its all about making money just like the Champions League an association to make the big clubs richer that will ultimately destroy football. What are Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs champions of nothing, the Champions league should return to being the European Cup with only the champions of each national league qualifying. Surely that would make the national leagues more competitive. Television is strangling football in England the sooner the clubs break that stranglehold the better for the game. Rant Over. something we can both agree on then. stopped listening to 5live in favour of music and havent watched a game since the champions league final so as to get it out of my system before it starts. didnt watch much of the charity game earlier either,went out instead. only exception is on here with the competitions and a bit of goss when people bring it up. cant wait for it to start though but you are right, everyone seems to want to make a quid on the world cup
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 7, 2010 0:45:31 GMT 1
Am I alone in getting fed up with the World Cup and it hasn't even started. It has become a major commercial undertaking which is more to do with making money than about football. Why can't it be a straight knockout cometition? Why do they need to have two rounds of mini leagues? Its all about making money just like the Champions League an association to make the big clubs richer that will ultimately destroy football. What are Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs champions of nothing, the Champions league should return to being the European Cup with only the champions of each national league qualifying. Surely that would make the national leagues more competitive. Television is strangling football in England the sooner the clubs break that stranglehold the better for the game. Rant Over. Agree 100% with all you say - football at the top level is far too overhyped these days.
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Post by scooter on Jun 7, 2010 0:47:16 GMT 1
The World Cup has always had a group stage - presumamly so that teams don't go half way round the world to get only one game and go home again
There is only one group stage, then a straight knock-out. They had extra group stages years ago, but not recently, unless you are counting the qualifying group ?
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 7, 2010 2:16:14 GMT 1
What are you on about? There hasn't been a second group stage since Spain 1982! That's 28 years ago. Obviously the tournament has grown bigger and more of commercial event, but all the hype and talk is about the football itself - who will do well, potential upsets, star players etc. It's only once every four years and (though I agree with your sentiments re. the CL) it's nonsense to compare it to the CL - they are nothing like one another. I suppose you are just trying to spark some debate, but as ever you come across as being such a negative person - are you Victor Meldrew?
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Jun 7, 2010 8:26:25 GMT 1
What are you on about? There hasn't been a second group stage since Spain 1982! That's 28 years ago. Obviously the tournament has grown bigger and more of commercial event, but all the hype and talk is about the football itself - who will do well, potential upsets, star players etc. It's only once every four years and (though I agree with your sentiments re. the CL) it's nonsense to compare it to the CL - they are nothing like one another. I suppose you are just trying to spark some debate, but as ever you come across as being such a negative person - are you Victor Meldrew? Ed being called negative what a shock
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 7, 2010 8:30:40 GMT 1
I think the format of the World Cup is spot on. No need to change that. European football however, is a farce with the group system (more so the UEFA Cup). As I posted some time back, from watching TV, from listening to the radio and more so from reading the newspapers (granted I only read the broadsheets mind) I’d detected a real lack of hype surrounding this world cup and England’s chances in it. Complete opposite for me now, having seen decent discussion about our chances, no one going daft or overboard about our chances, watching old World Cup footage has me geared up for the next month. Can’t wait. Don’t wish to be rude but there is the old adage that you don’t have to watch the football that’s on the box. Just pick and choice the games that you deem are worthy of settling down to watch. As for football being a money making machine, I can’t disagree with that. A ruthless machine at that. But even so, whatever FIFA is and does I just can't turn my back that easily on what is without a doubt one of the best footballing events...
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 9:33:39 GMT 1
What are you on about? There hasn't been a second group stage since Spain 1982! That's 28 years ago. Obviously the tournament has grown bigger and more of commercial event, but all the hype and talk is about the football itself - who will do well, potential upsets, star players etc. It's only once every four years and (though I agree with your sentiments re. the CL) it's nonsense to compare it to the CL - they are nothing like one another. I suppose you are just trying to spark some debate, but as ever you come across as being such a negative person - are you Victor Meldrew? Yes I am negative about the way, football at the highest level, is going and particularly the way football is being dominated by television. Much of the attraction of the World Cup 30 and more years ago was that was your chance to see the world class players how often did we see Pele on the television, how often did we see the skills of Best and many more? Now twice a week we can watch Rooney or Messi and hear their every move analysied. The World Cup is only every four years but in the middle we have the Europeans and another chance for hype. Let the World Cup be fought out between the top two nations in America, Europe, Asia and Africa and bring it back to a football tournament rather than a media extravaganza. Many complain that in moving to the Greenhous Meadow the Town lost it's tradition, in my opinion football is changing not always for the better. It is time that football was for the fans again rather than for the media. Questions: Is it negative to want change? Is it negative not to accept the status quo? Personally I don't think so. By the way for a number of reasons I will watch few of the matches in the World Cup.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2010 9:37:12 GMT 1
Thoroughly looking forward to it all.
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Post by Fingers on Jun 7, 2010 9:43:11 GMT 1
Xmas adverts and pomp start straight after halloween every year. When something on this global magnitude happens four years I think its fair things get ramped up. Thoroughly looking forward to the best show on earth. Makes Accrington away seem worthwhile
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LufbraSalop
Midland League Division One
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Post by LufbraSalop on Jun 7, 2010 9:54:56 GMT 1
Am I alone in getting fed up with the World Cup and it hasn't even started. It has become a major commercial undertaking which is more to do with making money than about football. Why can't it be a straight knockout cometition? Why do they need to have two rounds of mini leagues? Its all about making money just like the Champions League an association to make the big clubs richer that will ultimately destroy football. What are Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs champions of nothing, the Champions league should return to being the European Cup with only the champions of each national league qualifying. Surely that would make the national leagues more competitive. Television is strangling football in England the sooner the clubs break that stranglehold the better for the game. Rant Over. The advertising for the world cup is a little too much with every advert seemly having some connection to football. However, i think the setup for the world cup is perfect. We've always had a group stage and in terms of structure this world cup is no different to any other bar 82 (which had a rubbish two group structure). Completely agree with the expansion of the champions league and the re branding and destruction of the Uefa cup. It has no romance anymore because of pure greed. TV has also messed with traditional kick off times which means we're over run with domestic football coverage as well.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 7, 2010 10:12:53 GMT 1
You are entitled to your opinions but I think the vast majority of football fans are pretty happy with the World Cup as it is. Though I disagree with many things that FIFA says and does, I actually think they have done a good job with changes to the World Cup. I like the expanded format where only two teams from each group progress, the European qualifying stage has become a good event in itself, I am glad they did away with the second group stage, it is much fairer that the last two group stage games in each group are played simultaneously and I think the principle of rotating hosting around the different continents is right. With just the 8 nations you suggest I don't think it would be much of a tournament at all (and it's funny how you've just amalgamated the Americas into a super-continent). As I said, I think your grievances with the European competitions and saturation with televised club football are well-placed and many would agree with you, but I think the way you try to link that with your anti-world cup ideas is illogical. And you still haven't addressed your comment about two rounds of mini-leagues...
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Post by Ned on Jun 7, 2010 10:25:11 GMT 1
Disagree with this, but agree about the UCL and EL. I have to say, though, that money is part of football and will be for a very long time. I don't like that, but it's not up to us. There's nothing we can do. Do you really think Blatter is going to care what a few British fans think? Thought not.
I'm really looking forward to the World Cup, as a neutral it should be very exciting to watch. I, personally, think any of the following teams could win it:
Spain Brazil Holland Germany Italy England
Certainly going to be more exciting than 2006.
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 10:54:28 GMT 1
You are entitled to your opinions but I think the vast majority of football fans are pretty happy with the World Cup as it is. Though I disagree with many things that FIFA says and does, I actually think they have done a good job with changes to the World Cup. I like the expanded format where only two teams from each group progress, the European qualifying stage has become a good event in itself, I am glad they did away with the second group stage, it is much fairer that the last two group stage games in each group are played simultaneously and I think the principle of rotating hosting around the different continents is right. With just the 8 nations you suggest I don't think it would be much of a tournament at all (and it's funny how you've just amalgamated the Americas into a super-continent). As I said, I think your grievances with the European competitions and saturation with televised club football are well-placed and many would agree with you, but I think the way you try to link that with your anti-world cup ideas is illogical. And you still haven't addressed your comment about two rounds of mini-leagues... I also amalgamated Asia and Australasia. If it was only 8 nations in the final the tounament could be held in a lot more countries. The qualifying stages are organised to ensure wherever possible certain countries involvement in the final stages. How much more exciting they would be to have a straight knockout based on home and away results with seeded teams. They have always talked about the excitement of the Cup. I made a mistake regarding mini leagues but even with only one set of mini-leagues there are 64 matches compared with 32 if the competition was a straight knock out which would provide much more opportunity for shock results to be meaningful. Which in the end would lead in my opinion to a more exciting opportunity. Just imagine Australia knocking out Germany.
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Post by Ned on Jun 7, 2010 11:00:35 GMT 1
I think someone fancies their chances as the next FIFA President
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 11:13:35 GMT 1
I think someone fancies their chances as the next FIFA President Wish I had the wealth necessary.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 7, 2010 11:30:39 GMT 1
Hang on Hope, I’m lost on this one…how would we get to the 8 teams in the final? How would a country qualify for the ‘finals’, again a straight knock out format in the ‘qualifiers’?
Also, even with just the 8 teams involved you'd find it were the same eight time after time...so how woudl that see the finals held in more countries. I actually think the format now allows more venues to be considered. No one would wish to hold the event without home support coming out in numbers...
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 7, 2010 11:52:35 GMT 1
I also amalgamated Asia and Australasia. I know, but since the main Australasian nation, Australia, has already switched to the Asian group I was prepared to let that one pass without comment.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 7, 2010 11:55:44 GMT 1
Also, even with just the 8 teams involved you'd find it were the same eight time after time... Exactly. We would likely see Argentina and Brazil represent "America" in every tournament, and they would probably always reach the semis too if it were seeded. Would be a mad old European qualifying stage to select only two teams and all!
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Jun 7, 2010 11:56:59 GMT 1
I also amalgamated Asia and Australasia. If it was only 8 nations in the final the tounament could be held in a lot more countries. The qualifying stages are organised to ensure wherever possible certain countries involvement in the final stages. How much more exciting they would be to have a straight knockout based on home and away results with seeded teams. They have always talked about the excitement of the Cup. Surely only having two teams from each continent would increase the predictability of who was going to be involved every year? Think the format works well as it it, and really looking forward to Friday.
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Post by penza on Jun 7, 2010 12:02:23 GMT 1
For me, all the hype is just part of the world cup experience.. Its cirtainly more exiting than if nothing was going on and there was no football to tyalk about or even worse England wernt in the competition.
Im very much looking forward to the world cup for many reasons and i dont think its overhyped, it gets the attention it deserves as it is the biggest sporting even in the world.
This has the makings of the best one for ages aswel with the teams mentioned in other posts all having a real chance and yet there still being good teams beyond that with an outside bet, such as Serbia(Very good team), France, Portugal.
Hope England can do it but i doubt it, semi final penalty shoot out i reckon.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Jun 7, 2010 12:06:45 GMT 1
I just worked it out Ed is scotish
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 12:21:04 GMT 1
Also, even with just the 8 teams involved you'd find it were the same eight time after time... Exactly. We would likely see Argentina and Brazil represent "America" in every tournament, and they would probably always reach the semis too if it were seeded. Would be a mad old European qualifying stage to select only two teams and all! Argentina only finished 4th in South American Qualification this time. Might be mad in Europe but would be more exciting than current system where generally only 4 games matter in each group.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 7, 2010 12:23:48 GMT 1
A tad clichéd maybe, I dunno, but it adds to the World Cup that there are so many different countries involved. Perhaps more so when you are in attendance but seeing and meeting folk from many a place around the globe, the colour it brings, the noise it brings, the atmosphere it brings is sommat else. Maybe folk in the larger cities appreciate it a little more where it’s a tad more international but it’s great to be watching Italy against New Zealand along with Mexicans, Germans, English etc. I guess that’s a little off topic as I’m looking more off the park than on it but if it were to be reduced to a smaller number of teams it would be football fans who would miss out…
Can’t really think of anything else that can bring folk together like that…
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Post by Victoria on Jun 7, 2010 12:51:40 GMT 1
What a load of tosh. The world cup is awesome and you know it. I smell a Welsh person in the room
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dentures
Shropshire County League
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Post by dentures on Jun 7, 2010 13:13:20 GMT 1
why come on a football message board moaning about the world cup
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 13:36:19 GMT 1
why come on a football message board moaning about the world cup I am not sure where you'd suggest discussing football matters maybe a horse racing message board or a needlework message board. But if everyone is 100% happy with the World Cup so be it. So I'm Scottish, Welsh and the family have lived in Shropshire for hundreds of years whatever next.
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Post by Jonah on Jun 7, 2010 13:42:19 GMT 1
why come on a football message board moaning about the world cup The greatest football occasion in the world and Ed finds something to moan about Football is a global sport and the World Cup format and everything that goes with it reflects that. I am sure SA are not moaning about the major commercial undertaking either but looking forward to enjoying the huge return. I agree regarding Europe. the league format has destroyed the competitions.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 7, 2010 13:44:47 GMT 1
Yes it's over-hyped but frankly, who cares? Just ignore the hype. It'll be nothing compared to the London 2012 tsunami just over the horizon.
I love the World Cup. Have done since I was a kid. I love it when England do well but I love it when they're out of it too. For me, there's still magic in watching, say, Uruguay v France on Friday and not knowing what might happen. There are always great moments in every World Cup. Even today, when the top players are so well known, there'll be players from Honduras or Algeria or North Korea or one of the bigger nations that comes out of nowhere and makes a name for themselves.
Whether it's the magical Brazilian team of '70, or the Dutch in '74 and '78, the brilliant Romanian team in '94 (bleach blond hair and all), the unlikely successes of North Korea in '66 or South Korea in '02, the war between Portugal and Holland in '06, Argentina kicking their way to the final in '90, Lineker's hat trick in '86 etc etc etc All fantastic in its own way.
You'd have to dislike football (fair enough) or be a miserable old curmudgeon not to enjoy it - wouldn't you?
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Post by Shrewed on Jun 7, 2010 15:18:22 GMT 1
I am sure SA are not moaning about the major commercial undertaking either but looking forward to enjoying the huge return. Jonah I'm sure the South African's who have been made homeless to make way for a new stadium, or because their home were destroyed so that visitors to Cape Town don't see shanty towns are moaning as they were 2 years ago when I was there. I would have thought someone as intelligent as you would know the difference between moaning an expressing an opinion. The World Cup isn't important enough to moan about. Venceremos wouldn't the France v Uruguay match be much more interesting if at the end of the game one of the teams was eliminated from the competition.
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