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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 18:24:52 GMT 1
I'm not suggesting anything. What I'm trying to say is that i'm looking at the bigger picture. I want a say in what is happening in the whole of the country and not just at a local level. the reasons are mostly the same all over except London which has always lived in a world of its own
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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 18:26:08 GMT 1
What's your view on the following 1) Increasing National Debt and how it is going to get paid? 2) The fact your beloved Labour Party want you to work 5 years longer for a greatly reduced pension? 3) Labour knowing we are living longer and facing a pension crisis, so they take £5 billion a year out of pension funds in tax and the knock on effect on the Stock Market? 4) Rising taxes? 5) Labours proud claim that they won't increase the Basic Rate of Income Tax but increased National Insurance? At least the Lib-Dems were honest and said we will increase the Basic Rate of Tax to improve the Health Service 6) Hidden waiting lists? Do they exist ? I ask this question as my Dad was diagnosed with a heart value problem. The Doctors said "We will wait until it gets worse but we will operate" That struck me as we know you need the treatment but we won't put you on the waiting list just yet because of the figures. Evening 1) National debt is increasing, no where near what it was when labour came to power. Consistently, various economic commentators have said mr brown will go bust, cant afford this that and the other, and every time he has proved them wrong. Every time for the last 8 years! 2) Need to work till im 65 to pay my mortgage. I believe that people who earn my kind of money and have a private pension (final salary type) shouldnt get a state pension. Firmly believe it should be means tested, as should child benefit and maternity payments. 3) living longer due to better standards of living and a vastly improved health service? Economy/stock market has never been more stable and strong. Will have to pass on the £5 billion tax thing cos i dont really know that much about it. Whats your veiw? 4) Which taxes are rising? Petrol, cigarettes, booze, Council tax? Havent they always? To change the question slightly, i have never been so well off personaly. National Insurance has gone up a bit i think, but i think the rewards are great value for money. Its being spent on public services rather than tax cuts for the rich 5) Ditto above 6) Sorry about your Dad . So it was a Doctor not a manager that said that. Isnt it Tory policy to allow Doctors and Nurses to make clinical judgements about treatment rather than hospital managers? Heart valve replacements are extraordinarily dangerous. Like many operations today, they are not carried out until absolutely neccessary due to the risks involved. As a matter of interest, under the Tories, your Dad will need to fork out just under £4000 to get treated any quicker. Dont know if he can afford that, i know mine certainly couldnt. Out of interest, can you name me one Tory policy on the health service other than closing wards for cleaning (longer waits for operations) and paying for people to go private? Hope your Dad gets his op sorted sooner rather than later
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Post by grinfish on Apr 19, 2005 19:09:38 GMT 1
All into nice trolleys on wheels, part of the multiples plan to cut costs you see.X ;D ;D ;D I guess Asda arrived just too late eh Tel? Safeway trolleys were of far too excessive a quality and price for Spud shifting?
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Post by MartinB on Apr 19, 2005 19:44:23 GMT 1
Evening 1) National debt is increasing, no where near what it was when labour came to power. Consistently, various economic commentators have said mr brown will go bust, cant afford this that and the other, and every time he has proved them wrong. Every time for the last 8 years! 2) Need to work till im 65 to pay my mortgage. I believe that people who earn my kind of money and have a private pension (final salary type) shouldnt get a state pension. Firmly believe it should be means tested, as should child benefit and maternity payments. 3) living longer due to better standards of living and a vastly improved health service? Economy/stock market has never been more stable and strong. Will have to pass on the £5 billion tax thing cos i dont really know that much about it. Whats your veiw? 4) Which taxes are rising? Petrol, cigarettes, booze, Council tax? Havent they always? To change the question slightly, i have never been so well off personaly. National Insurance has gone up a bit i think, but i think the rewards are great value for money. Its being spent on public services rather than tax cuts for the rich 5) Ditto above 6) Sorry about your Dad . So it was a Doctor not a manager that said that. Isnt it Tory policy to allow Doctors and Nurses to make clinical judgements about treatment rather than hospital managers? Heart valve replacements are extraordinarily dangerous. Like many operations today, they are not carried out until absolutely neccessary due to the risks involved. As a matter of interest, under the Tories, your Dad will need to fork out just under £4000 to get treated any quicker. Dont know if he can afford that, i know mine certainly couldnt. Out of interest, can you name me one Tory policy on the health service other than closing wards for cleaning (longer waits for operations) and paying for people to go private? Hope your Dad gets his op sorted sooner rather than later 1) Not sure about the National Debt figures before Labour came to power but rising which is a big concern to me. 2) I was referring to your private pension in thsi question. How do you feel about it being reduced? 3) Stock market has fallen big time under this Government which has added to the Pension Crisis. The £5 billion a year is the amount of tax Labour is collecting from Pension Funds. This money as well as being taken out of pensions is not re-invested in the Stock Market. Lower stock market means less value in Pension Funds = Bigger Pension Crisis. 4) No problem with Fag and booze taxes going up, but petrol prices have gone silly. Stops me watching the Town it has gone up so much. I don't have a problem with a tax rise to go into NHS care rather than managers but I do have a problem when I feel I am lied to. 5) No further comment needed. 6) My dad had his operation two years ago and is a new man. Fantastic treatment. He did pay £2000 to get his scan (can't spell the name) which meant he got seen in 4 weeks rather than 10 months. With my question about waiting lists it might of been the Doctors clinical decision it might of been playing statistics. I don't know the answer. I only asked the question because working in the public sector I know how stats are worked to relive pressure. With regard to your question about am I better off, it is difficult for me to answer as my personal circumstances changed 13 years ago and I gave up a well paid job so I could be with Carol (now my wife) I don't believe the Tories offer a credible alternative but I will be voting for them to try to cut the Labour Majority. I don't believe such a large majority is good for the Country. I did the same by voting SDP when I lived in Winchester when Margaret Thatcher was doing lots of good for the Country. I do think this Government has done some good things but I am concerned how much money they waste.
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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 19:55:37 GMT 1
1) Not sure about the National Debt figures before Labour came to power but rising which is a big concern to me. 2) I was referring to your private pension in thsi question. How do you feel about it being reduced? 3) Stock market has fallen big time under this Government which has added to the Pension Crisis. The £5 billion a year is the amount of tax Labour is collecting from Pension Funds. This money as well as being taken out of pensions is not re-invested in the Stock Market. Lower stock market means less value in Pension Funds = Bigger Pension Crisis. 4) No problem with f*g and booze taxes going up, but petrol prices have gone silly. Stops me watching the Town it has gone up so much. I don't have a problem with a tax rise to go into NHS care rather than managers but I do have a problem when I feel I am lied to. 5) No further comment needed. 6) My dad had his operation two years ago and is a new man. Fantastic treatment. He did pay £2000 to get his scan (can't spell the name) which meant he got seen in 4 weeks rather than 10 months. With my question about waiting lists it might of been the Doctors clinical decision it might of been playing statistics. I don't know the answer. I only asked the question because working in the public sector I know how stats are worked to relive pressure. With regard to your question about am I better off, it is difficult for me to answer as my personal circumstances changed 13 years ago and I gave up a well paid job so I could be with Carol (now my wife) I don't believe the Tories offer a credible alternative but I will be voting for them to try to cut the Labour Majority. I don't believe such a large majority is good for the Country. I did the same by voting SDP when I lived in Winchester when Margaret Thatcher was doing lots of good for the Country. I do think this Government has done some good things but I am concerned how much money they waste. Good post, some facts there i didnt know of Just one question, you really voted for the SDP
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2005 20:08:33 GMT 1
the reasons are mostly the same all over except London which has always lived in a world of its own I know the smiley face means you're taking the pi$$, however it's not just london where people are struggling with increasing house prices.
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Post by Sponger on Apr 19, 2005 20:10:15 GMT 1
Who cares what unemployment and tax changes any of them have planned. Me and my family are lazy scroungers and will vote for the party we can sponge most out of. We will even carry on claiming for stuff we are not entitled to as it is easy to con the authorities You sad people who work for a living are suckers.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 20:30:22 GMT 1
I know the smiley face means you're taking the pi$$, however it's not just london where people are struggling with increasing house prices. Ok Phil house prices went up why? because of low interest rates, which need to be at a reasonable level for savers and borrowers, you can't please everyone all of the time, house prices are more stable now, perhaps they will come down a little, not to much though. Help needs to be given to the starter market, but just making the property cheaper will not help, many propertys here in Meole have sold only for the TO LET signs to go up, removing more affordable property's from the market, the buy to let scam is crippling the low end of the market. The way forward will be with shared ownership, frowned on in the past ( I did) but it will keep the property affordable and available for future house buyers. As for taking the mick, about London, why the same story about housing exists everywhere, London isn't special
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 19, 2005 20:51:01 GMT 1
Can I just say how much I admire you all for this debate. I am probably older than most of you on this thread and I have never not voted at a General Election. But this time I cannot find any party that I can honestly say shares any of my views.
1. Labour - I wouldn't trust Tony and his cronies (including George W) one jot to care about me, my family or anyone else.
2. Tories - couldn't vote for a party with these views on immigration. Very devisive if you ask me.
3. Lib Dems - would promise anything to get a vote. I am totally and utterly disenchanted with them in my part of the county (the South).
4. Greens - not convinced they could deliver anything.
5. All far right parties - not worth talking about.
6. Monster Raving Loony - now your're talking - except I don't expect we have a candidate.
I've met both the Lib Dem and Tory candidate through the course of my work - and I'm really not convinced by either of them.
However, when I was younger I sat up all night waiting for results, I discussed the issues and thoroughly enjoyed it - perhaps one day my interest will return.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2005 21:03:07 GMT 1
To take this interesting debate off on a tangent slightly, who do you all think will take Shrewsbury?
Despite my vote, Lembit Opik is a shoe-in for another 5 years of Question Times and Have I Got News for Yous, but things will be much more interesting over the border I feel.
Despite Daniel K clearly being a bit of a tool, he seems to have the edge on the other candidates in terms of publicity and also Marsden must have managed to take a few hundred votes at least from Lib/Lab.
Looking forward to the 6th now although I do fear another Labour Landslide with turnout up 3 or 4% from last time.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 19, 2005 21:07:48 GMT 1
To take this interesting debate off on a tangent slightly, who do you all think will take Shrewsbury? Despite my vote, Lembit Opik is a shoe-in for another 5 years of Question Times and Have I Got News for Yous, but things will be much more interesting over the border I feel. Despite Daniel K clearly being a bit of a tool, he seems to have the edge on the other candidates in terms of publicity and also Marsden must have managed to take a few hundred votes at least from Lib/Lab. Looking forward to the 6th now although I do fear another Labour Landslide with turnout up 3 or 4% from last time. Mr DK might loose it rather than Mike Ion win it if you see what I mean, i'm not sure if Shrewsbury people like the publicity seeking DK, if people just vote on a party only basis then it will be close but i think the Cons might just get it.
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Post by sponger on Apr 19, 2005 21:40:51 GMT 1
Did i mention we've got 12 months off for easter
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Post by MartinB on Apr 19, 2005 21:44:44 GMT 1
Good post, some facts there i didnt know of Just one question, you really voted for the SDP Did I mean SDP? What were the Liberal Democrates called in between being the Liberals and something else. And whoever they were I did vote for them because voting Labour in Winchester is as much use a peeing over the side of a ship in a force 10 gale.
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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 21:47:10 GMT 1
Did i mention we've got 12 months off for easter Did i mention i have dignity and self respect?
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Post by MeoleShrew NLI on Apr 19, 2005 22:06:03 GMT 1
Did i mention i have dignity and self respect? Nice to see all the chickens haven't flown the coup ay Pab Sponger go and soak someone elses time up
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Post by pawlo on Apr 19, 2005 22:33:40 GMT 1
Nice to see all the chickens haven't flown the coup ay Pab I dont understand
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Post by dachs on Apr 19, 2005 22:37:37 GMT 1
Can I just say how much I admire you all for this debate. I am probably older than most of you on this thread and I have never not voted at a General Election. But this time I cannot find any party that I can honestly say shares any of my views. 1. Labour - I wouldn't trust Tony and his cronies (including George W) one jot to care about me, my family or anyone else. I know New Labour has earnt itself a bad name in some respects, especially TB, but can you really say you'd prefer any of the others to take power? Michael Howard? You've got to be joking. I have many reservations, but I'll vote Labour knowing they're the only route we have to taking things forward. Anyone voting Conservative is voting for the Conservative policies on immigration and crime, which, frankly, disgust me.
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Post by sponger on Apr 19, 2005 22:47:47 GMT 1
Nice to see all the chickens haven't flown the coup ay Pab Sponger go and soak someone elses time up What is meant by that ? The only person who would post such a thing must be a sponger.
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Post by harmerhillshrew on Apr 19, 2005 22:53:43 GMT 1
Who cares what unemployment and tax changes any of them have planned. Me and my family are lazy scroungers and will vote for the party we can sponge most out of. We will even carry on claiming for stuff we are not entitled to as it is easy to con the authorities You sad people who work for a living are suckers. You better pray the Tories dont get in then. Otherwise you will be on the chain gang.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 19, 2005 23:25:07 GMT 1
Phil - why do you blame labour for expensive house prices in London?
They;ve been pretty pricey since about 1400 AD, and certainly Maggie's development of the City of London and the movement to a service related economy put huge pressure on the whole south east
Surely social housing is the responsibility of the local authority?
And high house prices, however painful, are a sign of a good strong economy. I would rather have expensive houses than boom and bust economic policy that leaves hundreds of thousands of people with negative equity on their homes
Has any party actually made any promises on social housing? Sounds like the Lib Dems sort of thing to me, as they are the only party remotely left of centre these days
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Post by Pilch on Apr 19, 2005 23:41:40 GMT 1
they were pretty expensive long before 1400 AD this cave was £280,000 ;D
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 19, 2005 23:44:33 GMT 1
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Post by MartinB on Apr 20, 2005 6:28:16 GMT 1
Phil - why do you blame labour for expensive house prices in London? They;ve been pretty pricey since about 1400 AD, and certainly Maggie's development of the City of London and the movement to a service related economy put huge pressure on the whole south east TBH, If you hadn't noticed Labour have been in power for 8 years. In my book they are now responsible for anything that is happening in the Country caused by Government policy. If it's not their policy that have caused it why haven't they changed it? Labour have to stop blaming everyone else for the things that are not right in the Country. To balance things out though, no Government can get everything right it just annoys me the Labour Party always blaming someone else.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2005 6:35:13 GMT 1
TBH - you might want to read my earlier replies again. I'm not saying anything about London or local Shrewsbury in particular. I'm voting on a national point of view here.
It's not just in London that house prices are high, it's all over the country.
Labour have been in power for 8 years - IMO they're not doing enough to help first time buyers.
They're also not doing enough to improve schools.
Also, they're stupidly trying to get 50% of people to university, hence putting pressure on the universities which is causing the top up fees.
As I previously said, I'm not necessarily voting Tory in this election because I approve of all their ideas but because they are the only party who will provide decent opposition to the mistakes Labour are making.
One other thing that hasn't been considered here is the 'selfish' vote. As well as looking out for the country with my vote, I will, as my dad puts it be "looking after number 1" when I get into that voting booth on May 5th. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who will be thinking this as well.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 20, 2005 8:04:39 GMT 1
What is meant by that ? The only person who would post such a thing must be a sponger. Whats the saying yellow belly liver something or other, can remember, your just like a child shouting, nah, nah, nah ,nah if you think your being clever your way off the mark
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Post by oranjemob1 on Apr 20, 2005 8:16:28 GMT 1
Can I just say how much I admire you all for this debate. I am probably older than most of you on this thread and I have never not voted at a General Election. But this time I cannot find any party that I can honestly say shares any of my views. 1. Labour - I wouldn't trust Tony and his cronies (including George W) one jot to care about me, my family or anyone else. 2. Tories - couldn't vote for a party with these views on immigration. Very devisive if you ask me. 3. Lib Dems - would promise anything to get a vote. I am totally and utterly disenchanted with them in my part of the county (the South). 4. Greens - not convinced they could deliver anything. 5. All far right parties - not worth talking about. 6. Monster Raving Loony - now your're talking - except I don't expect we have a candidate. I've met both the Lib Dem and Tory candidate through the course of my work - and I'm really not convinced by either of them. However, when I was younger I sat up all night waiting for results, I discussed the issues and thoroughly enjoyed it - perhaps one day my interest will return. Pretty good post, this. I agree in many ways. I would, however, urge you to vote. Universal franchise is one of the few things they can't take away - or can they? BTW. I am, sadly, one of the contributors who is more than likely older than you So cheer up
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 20, 2005 8:17:56 GMT 1
what party has promised the most on social housing?
would you prefer consistent house prices or up and down prices with thousands of people facing negative equity?
Is it central governments job to control house prices or in a free market, with supply and demand, and where demand outstrips supply are we not just seeing the consequences of a well run economy in a relatively small country?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 20, 2005 8:38:22 GMT 1
TBH, If you hadn't noticed Labour have been in power for 8 years. In my book they are now responsible for anything that is happening in the Country caused by Government policy. If it's not their policy that have caused it why haven't they changed it? Labour have to stop blaming everyone else for the things that are not right in the Country. To balance things out though, no Government can get everything right it just annoys me the Labour Party always blaming someone else. I am not the labour party, nor am I blaiming anyone else I am just saying that approx 30 years of economic policy has pushed our economy into the loop of the M25 and the M4 corridor How could any government reverse that? when labour came to power the pits, ship yards and factories across the north and south wales had been shut for over ten years how do you reverse the cycle of economic migration to the south east in 8 years? Is it the role of central government to intervene in local planning issues. And as the party of a free market dictated economy why would the tories want to do anything different? Most of their core vote can afford houses so what is the issue?
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 20, 2005 8:56:34 GMT 1
I'm sure I will vote in the end when I see the final list of candidates for south shropshire. I agree if I don't I am starting a slippery slide to a loss of democracy and I couldn't do that.
Nice to know we oldies are still able to contribute and communicate with the youngsters most of whom on here seem to have really mature outlooks on life.
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Post by True_Shrew on Apr 20, 2005 9:22:09 GMT 1
I've always voted liberal, not sure if I ever will but I vote for the interests of the country - not for myself.
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