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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 21:09:55 GMT 1
Damm if only we waited for Jose Mourinho
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 21:10:13 GMT 1
But I didn’t miss the Salford game...... Nor me - nothing like as ugly. Just one nasty outburst at the end, not sustained vitriol directed against the manager and his team as there was against Macc. Not even close. Although "not as toxic as Simpson" isn't a very high bar. Nevertheless, I could count on the fingers of one hand the times Askey got any real s**t. Anyway, that particular argument is a moot point. I note that no-one has answered my comments about 1.05 points per game and an all-carthorse forward line.
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Post by bellevuesalopian on Feb 16, 2019 21:11:07 GMT 1
Suppose the question would be Hurst or Caldwell if the rumours are to be believed. Personally is an ok CEO worth more than a decent manager? I suppose a decent manager can’t sell the club for you though.
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 21:12:04 GMT 1
Perhaps more importantly though, his points per game ratio was 1.05. It was overall but it was slowly improving, it was 1.4 from his last 10 games in charge and, as I said earlier, my money would have been on that gradually improving further had he been given more time. Even if it hadn't, 1.4 points per game is the stuff of fantasy under Ricketts. Mine wouldn't, as his last 10 games saw some absolutely abysmal performances, and he frequently stuck our best players on the bench. Only a jammy last minute win against the worst team in the league got him a >1 point per game ratio in the end.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 16, 2019 21:13:16 GMT 1
Perhaps more importantly though, his points per game ratio was 1.05. It was overall but it was slowly improving, it was 1.4 from his last 10 games in charge and, as I said earlier, my money would have been on that gradually improving further had he been given more time. Even if it hadn't, 1.4 points per game is the stuff of fantasy under Ricketts. Perhaps but I don't think too many of us expected the board to go in the same direction after having their fingers burnt with Askey. Askey wasn't up to the task, the fact that appears to be the same case for Ricketts shouldn't distract from that.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 16, 2019 21:15:03 GMT 1
Suppose the question would be Hurst or Caldwell if the rumours are to be believed. Personally is an ok CEO worth more than a decent manager? I suppose a decent manager can’t sell the club for you though. To answer your question - yes. Hurst or Caldwell? Caldwell.
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Post by tvor on Feb 16, 2019 21:16:02 GMT 1
It was overall but it was slowly improving, it was 1.4 from his last 10 games in charge and, as I said earlier, my money would have been on that gradually improving further had he been given more time. Even if it hadn't, 1.4 points per game is the stuff of fantasy under Ricketts. Mine wouldn't, as his last 10 games saw some absolutely abysmal performances, and he frequently stuck our best players on the bench. Only a jammy last minute win against the worst team in the league got him a >1 point per game ratio in the end. Abysmal performances or not those games also saw four League 1 wins. I wonder how long it will take for Ricketts to get up to the four League 1 win mark, if ever?
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 21:17:45 GMT 1
Mine wouldn't, as his last 10 games saw some absolutely abysmal performances, and he frequently stuck our best players on the bench. Only a jammy last minute win against the worst team in the league got him a >1 point per game ratio in the end. Absymal performances or not those games also saw four League 1 wins. I wonder how long it will take for Ricketts to get up to the win League 1 win mark, if ever? I don't think he will. Which is why - as above - he should be under a lot more pressure than he is.
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Post by markglasgow on Feb 16, 2019 21:21:14 GMT 1
What a horrible self-inflicted mess.
Club a massive gamble by pressing the eject button so quickly. It's a gamble which unfortunately seems to backfired and may well have dire consequences for our football club. So many good things happening around STFC this season but the biggest decision from a on-field perspective could propel us back to L2 once again.
I'm sure Brian and Roland would say well it's what you guys wanted right? And of course they would be right. A section of our support applied huge pressure on Askey and by-proxy the players. Much of this pressure being whipped up by certain radio pundits eager for a red hot phone in or by clueless twitter fan accounts and podcasts hawking for likes and retweets.
Surely we're not that stupid right?
Clearly we are.....
The scapegoating continues in the shape of Luke Waterfall who is (wrongly) attributed the blame of pretty much every goal we concede. Once again when there is an agenda to be pushed then facts and reality matter very little.
This season looks to be a one where harsh lessons will be learned and as a fan base we need to take stock of where we are. Undoubtedly last season messed with many of us in a major fashion but it seems we have failed to handle the success of last season in the most spectacular fashion imaginable.
Whilst we scramble to blame the managers, the staff, the players, the chairman, the CEO, the new chip vans... Lets also take some time to review how we as supporters have had an impact on this season. We are very quick to pat ourselves on the back when things are going well and we are giving the team great backing. How are we when the chips are down?
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Post by criftins on Feb 16, 2019 21:28:10 GMT 1
What a horrible self-inflicted mess. Club a massive gamble by pressing the eject button so quickly. It's a gamble which unfortunately seems to backfired and may well have dire consequences for our football club. So many good things happening around STFC this season but the biggest decision from a on-field perspective could propel us back to L2 once again. I'm sure Brian and Roland would say well it's what you guys wanted right? And of course they would be right. A section of our support applied huge pressure on Askey and by-proxy the players. Much of this pressure being whipped up by certain radio pundits eager for a red hot phone in or by clueless twitter fan accounts and podcasts hawking for likes and retweets. Surely we're not that stupid right? Clearly we are..... The scapegoating continues in the shape of Luke Waterfall who is (wrongly) attributed the blame of pretty much every goal we concede. Once again when there is an agenda to be pushed then facts and reality matter very little. This season looks to be a one where harsh lessons will be learned and as a fan base we need to take stock of where we are. Undoubtedly last season messed with many of us in a major fashion but it seems we have failed to handle the success of last season in the most spectacular fashion imaginable. Whilst we scramble to blame the managers, the staff, the players, the chairman, the CEO, the new chip vans... Lets also take some time to review how we as supporters have had an impact on this season. We are very quick to pat ourselves on the back when things are going well and we are giving the team great backing. How are we when the chips are down? No I m not stupid thank you. i believe last season the people who the fans patted on the back was in fact the players the manager the ceo the chairman and the board. As for Waterfall have you watched the goals we’ve conceded, come on he’s in many cases been partly or jointly to blame.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 16, 2019 21:35:42 GMT 1
I'm sure Brian and Roland would say well it's what you guys wanted right? And of course they would be right. A section of our support applied huge pressure on Askey and by-proxy the players. Much of this pressure being whipped up by certain radio pundits eager for a red hot phone in or by clueless twitter fan accounts and podcasts hawking for likes and retweets. So not in any way looking for what is best for the club that they support? It's all about likes and retweets? I honestly can't believe what you have posted there. I think it is pretty clear where the fault lies, I appreciate that those fans who backed Askey might wish to try and deflect any blame away from the chap himself and his abilities as a manager but I can only think they have very short memories. It was the wrong appointment. It ain't the fans fault that we are in this mess, not by a country mile.
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Post by SurreyShrew on Feb 16, 2019 21:36:04 GMT 1
Let's get real. We are in a relegation battle. Scrapping for any points will be difficult because the team are obviously not playing with confidence. We need to grab anything we can. And anyone that says we should be beating effing Burton needs to remember that they were only just relegated from the championship last season and they stuck with the manager who them down.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 16, 2019 21:36:31 GMT 1
Thought at the time, and ever since, that Askey was a terriable appointment by Town and was possibly the dullest man I've ever heard speak, so remain very happy he went. Why the club appointed an equally unqualified manager who has managed to unearth even more unfit players who can't care less is a mystery, other than a sure sign we continue to do everything on the cheap.
Really can't remember such a disappointing season - we've had worse teams but never quite known a year where the club shot it self in the foot so often with poor appointments and signings. Feel sorry for whichever manager has to pick things back up in league 2 next year
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masshrop
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Post by masshrop on Feb 16, 2019 21:40:30 GMT 1
Askey was hounded out whether it was melon simpson esk is immaterial , anybody that went to doncaster portsmouth away barnsley at home say the football was’nt good needs to go watch liverpool / man utd because league 1 obviously not for you .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 21:54:51 GMT 1
The idea Askey wasn't hounded out is b0ll0x. A large proportion of the fan base wanted him gone. I'm not talking B&A, but out and about in the pubs and even my workplace. The atmosphere at the ground was clear before Askey went. Thing is, the CEO and Chair choked. Fair enough, ultimately it's their decision, but to think they didn't half an eye on what was happening around and about is, again, b0ll0x.
But, he's gone and here we are.
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Post by markglasgow on Feb 16, 2019 21:59:44 GMT 1
Suppose the question would be Hurst or Caldwell if the rumours are to be believed. Personally is an ok CEO worth more than a decent manager? I suppose a decent manager can’t sell the club for you though. Wouldn't RW be on the same page as Caldwell? Trust and respect are minimum requirements. I'm interested in how Hurst pans out in the long term. Not entirely convinced he's the next Brian Clough.
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Post by markglasgow on Feb 16, 2019 22:07:06 GMT 1
I'm sure Brian and Roland would say well it's what you guys wanted right? And of course they would be right. A section of our support applied huge pressure on Askey and by-proxy the players. Much of this pressure being whipped up by certain radio pundits eager for a red hot phone in or by clueless twitter fan accounts and podcasts hawking for likes and retweets. So not in any way looking for what is best for the club that they support? It's all about likes and retweets? I honestly can't believe what you have posted there. I think it is pretty clear where the fault lies, I appreciate that those fans who backed Askey might wish to try and deflect any blame away from the chap himself and his abilities as a manager but I can only think they have very short memories. It was the wrong appointment. It ain't the fans fault that we are in this mess, not by a country mile. The folks in question later boasted about the pride they in playing a big part in 'hounding', their words, Askey out. People employed by our club deserve a modicum of respect. Doesn't matter if it's the manager or the lady who (apparently) does smile enough in the ticket office. We are supposed to be adults.
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Post by quinnster on Feb 16, 2019 22:17:27 GMT 1
Being a bit harsh on ourselves as fans. Plenty of anti Askey/Ricketts comments, but we were right about Askey,we are right about Ricketts. Was anybody convinced from the start these appointments were good for the club .I doubt it. Plenty mentions of the dark days of Mellon, Peters, Simpson or even Hurst, but. . they all got us to Wembley .These two latest Managers just not up to it. You guys have been great this Season, kept turning up and singing out doing the away lot. We just care.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 16, 2019 22:21:42 GMT 1
So not in any way looking for what is best for the club that they support? It's all about likes and retweets? I honestly can't believe what you have posted there. I think it is pretty clear where the fault lies, I appreciate that those fans who backed Askey might wish to try and deflect any blame away from the chap himself and his abilities as a manager but I can only think they have very short memories. It was the wrong appointment. It ain't the fans fault that we are in this mess, not by a country mile. People employed by our club deserve a modicum of respect. Doesn't matter if it's the manager or the lady who (apparently) does smile enough in the ticket office. We are supposed to be adults. Absolutely, I agree with that. However, the reason we struggled under Askey has nothing to do with the fan base. The reason we are struggling under Ricketts has nothing to do with the fan base. We got it wrong when it came to identifying what is needed from a manager to compete at this level. And when I say we, we're talking about those who are responsible for those appointments. We got it wrong with Askey, it would seem (as things now stand) we got it wrong with Ricketts. I simply do not understand the reasoning that because Ricketts is having a mare it somehow means that it was the wrong decision to move on from Askey. For me that makes no sense whatsoever. It just means we got it wrong twice over when it comes to the appointments made.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 22:38:46 GMT 1
I don't see how anyone of a competent and sane mind can say 'we got it wrong' with Askey. The man was in the process of building an entirely new team and had us outside the relegation zone. His job was to build a team after ours was ripped to shreds.
He didn't fail in this task. We simply didn't give him the time.
Ricketts was bought into to improve results and so far has been an abject failure. That is cast iron so far. We have regressed.
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 22:39:42 GMT 1
The idea Askey wasn't hounded out is b0ll0x. A large proportion of the fan base wanted him gone. I'm not talking B&A, but out and about in the pubs and even my workplace. The atmosphere at the ground was clear before Askey went. Thing is, the CEO and Chair choked. Fair enough, ultimately it's their decision, but to think they didn't half an eye on what was happening around and about is, again, b0ll0x. But, he's gone and here we are. The fans never to him (nor the players, by all accounts), and the board clearly picked up on this. However, they did not "hound him out". That suggests raging protests. There were none of those. As I posted after the Stoke game, more Meadow-based abuse was given to Gary Rowett in 90 minutes than Askey got all season. "Gary Rowett, your football is s**t"; "we're s**t and we know we are" all game - THAT was a hounding. Askey got nothing close to that, though he did get a lot of sullen resentment based on his failure to inspire. I think that's fair - inspiring is part of a manager's job in any profession.
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Post by markglasgow on Feb 16, 2019 22:40:20 GMT 1
People employed by our club deserve a modicum of respect. Doesn't matter if it's the manager or the lady who (apparently) does smile enough in the ticket office. We are supposed to be adults. Absolutely, I agree with that. However, the reason we struggled under Askey has nothing to do with the fan base. The reason we are struggling under Ricketts has nothing to do with the fan base. We got it wrong when it came to identifying what is needed from a manager to compete at this level. And when I say we, we're talking about those who are responsible for those appointments. We got it wrong with Askey, it would seem (as things now stand) we got it wrong with Ricketts. I simply do not understand the reasoning that because Ricketts is having a mare it somehow means that it was the wrong decision to move on from Askey. For me that makes no sense whatsoever. It just means we got it wrong twice over when it comes to the appointments made. I'm not for a second suggesting that we the fans had an major impact on Askey or Ricketts performance. Although the mounting pressure on Askey certainly affected him. Concerned that we will soon have the same negative impact on SR and the team over coming weeks. Brian Caldwell told me that Askey went because of 'inconsistencies' in performance. From the highs of Barnsley and Winbledon to the lows of Oxford and Salford (h) I suppose.... It's clear that last season we set a benchmark and there was some expectation that we could obtain something close to those heights once again. I personally was never convinced this would be the case especially given the talent that left the Meadow during the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 22:43:52 GMT 1
No deflecting from me, it’s just that being a grown up working in the grown up world, I’m acutely aware that success is rarely something you can create with the snap of your fingers, but instead often takes time, hard work and patience. Maybe a few of you should read the book!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 22:53:21 GMT 1
The idea Askey wasn't hounded out is b0ll0x. A large proportion of the fan base wanted him gone. I'm not talking B&A, but out and about in the pubs and even my workplace. The atmosphere at the ground was clear before Askey went. Thing is, the CEO and Chair choked. Fair enough, ultimately it's their decision, but to think they didn't half an eye on what was happening around and about is, again, b0ll0x. But, he's gone and here we are. The fans never to him (nor the players, by all accounts), and the board clearly picked up on this. However, they did not "hound him out". That suggests raging protests. There were none of those. As I posted after the Stoke game, more Meadow-based abuse was given to Gary Rowett in 90 minutes than Askey got all season. "Gary Rowett, your football is s**t"; "we're s**t and we know we are" all game - THAT was a hounding. Askey got nothing close to that, though he did get a lot of sullen resentment based on his failure to inspire. I think that's fair - inspiring is part of a manager's job in any profession. After two, three home games, the South Stand chanted "You don't know what you're doing". Loud and not so proud. At Fleetwood, I heard abuse directed at Askey that was both personal and vile. From "respected" Town fans. I've never, ever heard this from Town fans before. At work, I spoke to Town fans that wouldn't go again until he'd gone. In August. It doesn't have to be "raging protests" but there was an environment where there was a sense of he's not welcome. No doubt something happened behind the scenes, but to claim that some sections of our support had no part in this is b0ll0x frankly.
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 22:53:48 GMT 1
I don't see how anyone of a competent and sane mind can say 'we got it wrong' with Askey. The man was in the process of building an entirely new team and had us outside the relegation zone. His job was to build a team after ours was ripped to shreds. He didn't fail in this task. We simply didn't give him the time. Hand on heart - do you think he would have succeeded if given more time? Alternatively, do you think he would have taken us down? Which do you think was more likely? Simpson was brought in to take us up. A few insisted to the end that he should have been given more time. If he had been, do you think he'd ever have finally achieved it? I don't. It takes more than time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 22:56:20 GMT 1
Absolutely, I agree with that. However, the reason we struggled under Askey has nothing to do with the fan base. The reason we are struggling under Ricketts has nothing to do with the fan base. We got it wrong when it came to identifying what is needed from a manager to compete at this level. And when I say we, we're talking about those who are responsible for those appointments. We got it wrong with Askey, it would seem (as things now stand) we got it wrong with Ricketts. I simply do not understand the reasoning that because Ricketts is having a mare it somehow means that it was the wrong decision to move on from Askey. For me that makes no sense whatsoever. It just means we got it wrong twice over when it comes to the appointments made. Brian Caldwell told me that Askey went because of 'inconsistencies' in performance. From the highs of Barnsley and Winbledon to the lows of Oxford and Salford (h) Which in itself is b0ll0x. Midtable teams are by nature inconsistent. BC and RW choked and ad half an eye on the mood of the crowd.
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Post by Liam on Feb 16, 2019 22:59:04 GMT 1
The fans never to him (nor the players, by all accounts), and the board clearly picked up on this. However, they did not "hound him out". That suggests raging protests. There were none of those. As I posted after the Stoke game, more Meadow-based abuse was given to Gary Rowett in 90 minutes than Askey got all season. "Gary Rowett, your football is s**t"; "we're s**t and we know we are" all game - THAT was a hounding. Askey got nothing close to that, though he did get a lot of sullen resentment based on his failure to inspire. I think that's fair - inspiring is part of a manager's job in any profession. After two, three home games, the South Stand chanted "You don't know what you're doing". Loud and not so proud. At Fleetwood, I heard abuse directed at Askey that was both personal and vile. From "respected" Town fans. I've never, ever heard this from Town fans before. At work, I spoke to Town fans that wouldn't go again until he'd gone. In August. It doesn't have to be "raging protests" but there was an environment where there was a sense of he's not welcome. No doubt something happened behind the scenes, but to claim that some sections of our support had no part in this is b0ll0x frankly. I didn't claim that, or anything close to it. I said he wasn't "hounded out" - hence my reference to raging protests, which the latter term clearly implies. I agree with you that there was a sense from the start that he wasn't welcome - hence my reference to "sullen resentment". That was partly based on raised expectations and partly based on his failure to inspire on or off the pitch <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="9.680000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 18.720000000000027px; height: 9.680000000000007px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_64664791" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="9.680000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 9.68px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 881px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_98729526" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="9.680000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 9.68px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 419px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_72245429" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="9.680000000000007" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 9.68px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 881px; top: 419px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_93157394" scrolling="no"></iframe> Basically, he had a tough gig, but he played his hand poorly and had us in relegation form from the first week of the season. If he hadn't been fired, I don't think we'd be much higher up the table. However, having been axed before Christmas he clearly can't be blamed as the main culprit if the team gets relegated in May.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 23:08:08 GMT 1
After two, three home games, the South Stand chanted "You don't know what you're doing". Loud and not so proud. At Fleetwood, I heard abuse directed at Askey that was both personal and vile. From "respected" Town fans. I've never, ever heard this from Town fans before. At work, I spoke to Town fans that wouldn't go again until he'd gone. In August. It doesn't have to be "raging protests" but there was an environment where there was a sense of he's not welcome. No doubt something happened behind the scenes, but to claim that some sections of our support had no part in this is b0ll0x frankly. I didn't claim that, or anything close to it. I said he wasn't "hounded out" - hence my reference to raging protests, which the latter term clearly implies. I agree with you that there was a sense from the start that he wasn't welcome - hence my reference to "sullen protest". That was partly based on raised expectations and partly based on his failure to inspire on or off the pitch Basically, he had a tough gig, but he played his hand poorly and had us in relegation form from the first week of the season. If he hadn't been fired, I don't think we'd be much higher up the table. However, having been axed before Christmas he clearly can't be blamed as the main culprit if the team gets relegated in May. I'm merely pointing out that "raging protests" don't equal a hostile environment. At Fleetwood for example, we had a few hundred Town fans most of whom just left in a huff to put it mildly, while a fair few decided to hang about and call Askey a c%&t who should f**k off back to Macclesfield. And decided that this should be the way we support a team from early on in the game. Just because we're not 1500 Stoke ex-Prem league fans doesn't mean that a hostile atmosphere can exist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 23:10:51 GMT 1
I don't see how anyone of a competent and sane mind can say 'we got it wrong' with Askey. The man was in the process of building an entirely new team and had us outside the relegation zone. His job was to build a team after ours was ripped to shreds. He didn't fail in this task. We simply didn't give him the time. Hand on heart - do you think he would have succeeded if given more time? Alternatively, do you think he would have taken us down? Which do you think was more likely? Simpson was brought in to take us up. A few insisted to the end that he should have been given more time. If he had been, do you think he'd ever have finally achieved it? I don't. It takes more than time. Redundant question. He wasn't given the time. We were outside the relegation zone when he left.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 23:15:01 GMT 1
Hand on heart - do you think he would have succeeded if given more time? Alternatively, do you think he would have taken us down? Which do you think was more likely? Simpson was brought in to take us up. A few insisted to the end that he should have been given more time. If he had been, do you think he'd ever have finally achieved it? I don't. It takes more than time. Redundant question. He wasn't given the time. We were outside the relegation zone when he left. Yep and the form was WLWLWLW, now it's just DLLDD and 1 win in 12 league games.
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