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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 7:32:45 GMT 1
the economic shock of Covid (and lets not forget its the biggest in 300 years) is going to make it very hard to decipher what the economic impact of Brexit has been. A fact that brexiteers will use to their advantage with every ounce of shamelessness they can muster, regardless of how relevant it is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 7:38:20 GMT 1
the economic shock of Covid (and lets not forget its the biggest in 300 years) is going to make it very hard to decipher what the economic impact of Brexit has been. A fact that brexiteers will use to their advantage with every ounce of shamelessness they can muster, regardless of how relevant it is. Obviously you will back this up with factual evidence, like the numerous posts on this board of Brexit supporters having “ I told you so” at the massive cock up that is the Euro response to Covid vaccines..... that should run to at least 10-12 pages of gloating by now eh....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 8:44:36 GMT 1
The data from 2019 also shows a dip in exports, because I imagine, stockpiling happens every Dec due to the Xmas break. In 2019 there was a sharp rise in exports during Feb and March. There wasn't last year due to Covid, so we need to see figures in 2 years time to see the real impact. Although any sign of economic harm is going to be picked up and used by rejoiners to bash Brexit, the economic shock of Covid (and lets not forget its the biggest in 300 years) is going to make it very hard to decipher what the economic impact of Brexit has been. Of course that won't stop people trying, especially when it is politically expedient to their cause. Of course Brexiters won't stop going on about it at all if all goes well. The point I was making that the data shows exports drop after Xmas anyway. Of course Covid has had an impact, hence it will be couple of years before we know the whether Brexit has caused a drop in exports. Let's hope some companies are able to survive that long.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 11:04:13 GMT 1
A fact that brexiteers will use to their advantage with every ounce of shamelessness they can muster, regardless of how relevant it is. Obviously you will back this up with factual evidence, like the numerous posts on this board of Brexit supporters having “ I told you so” at the massive cock up that is the Euro response to Covid vaccines..... that should run to at least 10-12 pages of gloating by now eh.... Well to be honest Mr D, neither side will know for sure will they?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 11:37:35 GMT 1
Obviously you will back this up with factual evidence, like the numerous posts on this board of Brexit supporters having “ I told you so” at the massive cock up that is the Euro response to Covid vaccines..... that should run to at least 10-12 pages of gloating by now eh.... Well to be honest Mr D, neither side will know for sure will they? I agree, but you and Nick are both eluding to how people who have voted Brexit are going to sit a crow about small victories and told you so moments, where the evidence suggests your both talking b******s..... as there has already been that chance over the vaccine issues, where non of that prediction has come about.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 23, 2021 12:21:27 GMT 1
Good article on the vaccine roll out in the EU compared to the UK in the Independent last week www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/covid-vaccines-uk-eu-far-behind-one-dose-prioritisation-872294/ampGenerally most EU countries have a higher % of fully vaccinated people than the UK but the UK approach has seen far more people get one dose, but in part that was required due to the very high case numbers and death rates in the UK which weren’t seen all across the UK In 12 months time the end results are probably going to be quite similar, although the UK programme looks likely to cost much more than the EU one per head of population
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Post by cabanas2017 on Feb 23, 2021 12:37:49 GMT 1
Good article on the vaccine roll out in the EU compared to the UK in the Independent last week www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/covid-vaccines-uk-eu-far-behind-one-dose-prioritisation-872294/ampGenerally most EU countries have a higher % of fully vaccinated people than the UK but the UK approach has seen far more people get one dose, but in part that was required due to the very high case numbers and death rates in the UK which weren’t seen all across the UK In 12 months time the end results are probably going to be quite similar, although the UK programme looks likely to cost much more than the EU one per head of population The Uk economic recovery is likely to be much quicker though which is a reason for the 27 countries criticising the EU Commission The Uk starting to ramp up 2nd doses in March will soon put the Uk ahead with the full dosage metric as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 13:40:31 GMT 1
Well to be honest Mr D, neither side will know for sure will they? I agree, but you and Nick are both eluding to how people who have voted Brexit are going to sit a crow about small victories and told you so moments, where the evidence suggests your both talking b******s..... as there has already been that chance over the vaccine issues, where non of that prediction has come about. I think you need to read a few more threads before you spout off about people talking b******s.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 13:43:07 GMT 1
Well to be honest Mr D, neither side will know for sure will they? I agree, but you and Nick are both eluding to how people who have voted Brexit are going to sit a crow about small victories and told you so moments, where the evidence suggests your both talking b******s..... as there has already been that chance over the vaccine issues, where non of that prediction has come about. What, the brexit boys haven’t been crowing about how we’ve got our vaccines sorted quicker than Europe? Really??
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Post by mattmw on Feb 23, 2021 14:00:50 GMT 1
Good article on the vaccine roll out in the EU compared to the UK in the Independent last week www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/covid-vaccines-uk-eu-far-behind-one-dose-prioritisation-872294/ampGenerally most EU countries have a higher % of fully vaccinated people than the UK but the UK approach has seen far more people get one dose, but in part that was required due to the very high case numbers and death rates in the UK which weren’t seen all across the UK In 12 months time the end results are probably going to be quite similar, although the UK programme looks likely to cost much more than the EU one per head of population The Uk economic recovery is likely to be much quicker though which is a reason for the 27 countries criticising the EU Commission The Uk starting to ramp up 2nd doses in March will soon put the Uk ahead with the full dosage metric as well. Not sure on where the economic recovery figures come from? Be interesting to see link to that data Information we are working on is that the UK economy fared much worse than other economics - EU and World wide. Whilst a big bounce back is likely when restrictions end the economy is unlikely to get back to pre Covid levels until around 2024, and slower for some sectors like manufacturing With the vaccine 2nd doses the UK programme is heavily reliant at the moment on no new variants emerging which impact on the already administered vaccines, which is why UK lockdown is needed to last longer to protect against that. Works really well from a public health perspective but less so from a cost perspective
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 24, 2021 19:02:03 GMT 1
The Isle of Man has today come to an arrangement with the EU to allow EU vessels to fish in IoM waters in exchange for being able to export molluscs and bivalves to the continent without restriction. As the IoM is not actually part of the UK and only a British Crown Dependency it is able to this. Chief Minister Howard Quayle said 'We will have the right to license these vessels and manage our waters in a way that puts sustainability of our waters, and our industry, at its heart'.
This is going to annoy the fishing industry in places like Cornwall, we're already on the brink of losing Norther Ireland, Scotland are clamouring for IndyRef2, Wales is toying with the idea and how long before the push for Cornish Independence starts getting louder?
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 11:25:07 GMT 1
vaccine latest
per 100
UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5
and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 25, 2021 11:54:17 GMT 1
vaccine latest per 100 UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5 and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is
Total deaths = 5th
Deaths per million = 4th
Yes we are running away with the lead in the vaccine race, it's just a shame that we're in contention for a medal place for the amount of deaths.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 12:10:50 GMT 1
vaccine latest per 100 UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5 and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is
Total deaths = 5th
Deaths per million = 4th
Yes we are running away with the lead in the vaccine race, it's just a shame that we're in contention for a medal place for the amount of deaths.
we've done that argument, and the amount of deaths cannot be compared fairly as we have no idea of the hands each country was dealt in the first place however, if we want to compare something fairly. ( which i guess you dont ) then look at those vaccine numbers again, each country had the same opportunity to sort out their own vaccines
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 12:14:56 GMT 1
just one more question, if the vote for brexit had been remain
what sort of figure do you think we'd now be at for deaths and vaccines ?
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Post by servernaside on Feb 25, 2021 12:18:37 GMT 1
vaccine latest per 100 UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5 and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is
Total deaths = 5th
Deaths per million = 4th
Yes we are running away with the lead in the vaccine race, it's just a shame that we're in contention for a medal place for the amount of deaths.
When the history of this pandemic is eventually written, it will take into account all the various factors which have led to higher or lower mortality rates in various countries and regions of the world. This history will not only take into account governmental action, or inaction, but a multitude of extraneous factors such as population movements, healthiness and age of different populations, different methods of measuring Covid related mortality, mutations of coronavirus etc. etc. etc. To try to pin the blame for an apparently higher death rate in the UK than in some other countries, solely on government action is arrant political nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 13:04:41 GMT 1
Total deaths = 5th
Deaths per million = 4th
Yes we are running away with the lead in the vaccine race, it's just a shame that we're in contention for a medal place for the amount of deaths.
When the history of this pandemic is eventually written, it will take into account all the various factors which have led to higher or lower mortality rates in various countries and regions of the world. This history will not only take into account governmental action, or inaction, but a multitude of extraneous factors such as population movements, healthiness and age of different populations, different methods of measuring Covid related mortality, mutations of coronavirus etc. etc. etc. To try to pin the blame for an apparently higher death rate in the UK than in some other countries, solely on government action is arrant political nonsense. All very well to say that but it is patently obvious that the decisions made could have been much, much better.
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 25, 2021 13:14:14 GMT 1
Total deaths = 5th
Deaths per million = 4th
Yes we are running away with the lead in the vaccine race, it's just a shame that we're in contention for a medal place for the amount of deaths.
we've done that argument, and the amount of deaths cannot be compared fairly as we have no idea of the hands each country was dealt in the first place however, if we want to compare something fairly. ( which i guess you dont ) then look at those vaccine numbers again, each country had the same opportunity to sort out their own vaccines So it's not fair to compare deaths, but it is fair to compare vaccination rates. Ok then! To answer your other question, we'll never know. You can speculate to your hearts content, but knowing is something nobody can do. Unless of course you know of a parallel universe where the remain vote won, in which case can you help sort out some way for me to get there.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 25, 2021 13:25:33 GMT 1
we've done that argument, and the amount of deaths cannot be compared fairly as we have no idea of the hands each country was dealt in the first place however, if we want to compare something fairly. ( which i guess you dont ) then look at those vaccine numbers again, each country had the same opportunity to sort out their own vaccines So it's not fair to compare deaths, but it is fair to compare vaccination rates. Ok then! To answer your other question, we'll never know. You can speculate to your hearts content, but knowing is something nobody can do. Unless of course you know of a parallel universe where the remain vote won, in which case can you help sort out some way for me to get there. Remind you of anyone?
Mr Pilch - That's the way to do it!
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Post by servernaside on Feb 25, 2021 13:34:51 GMT 1
When the history of this pandemic is eventually written, it will take into account all the various factors which have led to higher or lower mortality rates in various countries and regions of the world. This history will not only take into account governmental action, or inaction, but a multitude of extraneous factors such as population movements, healthiness and age of different populations, different methods of measuring Covid related mortality, mutations of coronavirus etc. etc. etc. To try to pin the blame for an apparently higher death rate in the UK than in some other countries, solely on government action is arrant political nonsense. All very well to say that but it is patently obvious that the decisions made could have been much, much better. You have of course been privy to all the SAGE advice given to government and also were no doubt aware in advance of the Kent mutation which was responsible for the rapid spread of the virus around the start of the year and the cause of around half the total number of deaths. It is not 'patently obvious' to any rational person with no political axe to grind.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 13:39:30 GMT 1
anyone remember the icelandic volcano a decade ago ? we didnt compare well against the rest of the world, and whatever australia and new zealand did, why didnt we do the same ? bloody labour government
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 25, 2021 13:42:30 GMT 1
vaccine latest per 100 UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5 and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is We've got some problems this side for sure and some of that is related to the AstraZeneca vaccine. For all the talk of getting the vaccines to the EU, here in Germany I think the press have now dubbed it the "shelf warmer" because of the numbers that are sat about. So you have those people in the population who are reluctant to get vaccinated anyway (no matter what the vaccine). Now we are seeing more and more people asking that they should be able to choose what vaccine they have (as in, not the AstraZeneca vaccine). Just looking at our local Nachrichten now and you see people in the comments section wanting a choice. So then the question will there be enough of the other vaccines to meet this demand and when can they be provided and is there enough people in the population who are willing to take the AstraZeneca vaccine. The thing is, this could push us back weeks or maybe months. But its all a "maybe". Whether they will demand somehow people must take what is offered (and what the repercussions are if they don't). Whether they can meet the demand fairly quickly of those who don't want the AstraZeneca vaccine with the other vaccines. I guess we should no more when they open up the vaccinations to the wider public. I think the talk we heard around the AstraZeneca vaccine and the deliveries, contract etc. has come back to bite us on the arse here.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 13:46:16 GMT 1
we've done that argument, and the amount of deaths cannot be compared fairly as we have no idea of the hands each country was dealt in the first place however, if we want to compare something fairly. ( which i guess you dont ) then look at those vaccine numbers again, each country had the same opportunity to sort out their own vaccines So it's not fair to compare deaths, but it is fair to compare vaccination rates. Ok then! To answer your other question, we'll never know. You can speculate to your hearts content, but knowing is something nobody can do. Unless of course you know of a parallel universe where the remain vote won, in which case can you help sort out some way for me to get there. so i made it simple for you with a full explanation and what did you do remove the explanation bit, and keep the vague bit as it sounds better, and then you went all david icke
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Post by davycrockett on Feb 25, 2021 13:54:32 GMT 1
All very well to say that but it is patently obvious that the decisions made could have been much, much better. You have of course been privy to all the SAGE advice given to government and also were no doubt aware in advance of the Kent mutation which was responsible for the rapid spread of the virus around the start of the year and the cause of around half the total number of deaths. It is not 'patently obvious' to any rational person with no political axe to grind. We were all privy to the sage advice for a circuit breaker early October with discussions around an early and extended half term... Taken up in Wales but not England until Boris was forced to bring in lockdown 2 from beginning of November (Kent variant was known about but we hadn’t been told......He was still hopeful for Xmas Day Mr Johnson said: "Christmas is going to be different this year, perhaps very different, but it's my sincere hope and belief that by taking tough action now we can allow families across the country to be together."The Kent mutation was announced prior to Xmas and was known about late September, Boris announced it the same day he said we could still meet up on Christmas Day ( in full knowledge of the new variant) Now universally accepted to be a major cause of the massive escalation in deaths in Jan and beyond. This announcement on 19th Dec announced the introduction of tier 4 due to new variant but also confirmed the new rules for Christmas Day where except for tier 4 up to 3 families could meet up. The Prime Minister also said that given the risk the new variant poses, the Christmas bubble policy will no longer apply in Tier 4.
For Tiers 1, 2 and 3, Christmas bubbles can continue with up to three households able to meet, but for one day only on Christmas Day.
The government is also issuing new travel advice. Although the new variant is concentrated in Tier 4 areas, it is present at lower levels around the country.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Feb 25, 2021 14:00:45 GMT 1
vaccine latest per 100 UK 27 germany 6 italy 6 spain 6 france 5 and belgiums new super 5000 a day vaccine centre is up and running and averging 200 jabs a day, in the hour the bbc filmed there, 1 person turned up, bit of a disaster wherever that is We've got some problems this side for sure and some of that is related to the AstraZeneca vaccine. For all the talk of getting the vaccines to the EU, here in Germany I think the press have now dubbed it the "shelf warmer" because of the numbers that are sat about. So you have those people in the population who are reluctant to get vaccinated anyway (no matter what the vaccine). Now we are seeing more and more people asking that they should be able to choose what vaccine they have (as in, not the AstraZeneca vaccine). Just looking at our local Nachrichten now and you see people in the comments section wanting a choice. So then the question will there be enough of the other vaccines to meet this demand and when can they be provided and is there enough people in the population who are willing to take the AstraZeneca vaccine. The thing is, this could push us back weeks or maybe months. But its all a "maybe". Whether they will demand somehow people must take what is offered (and what the repercussions are if they don't). Whether they can meet the demand fairly quickly of those who don't want the AstraZeneca vaccine with the other vaccines. I guess we should no more when they open up the vaccinations to the wider public. I think the talk we heard around the AstraZeneca vaccine and the deliveries, contract etc. has come back to bite us on the arse here. They will find out in time the Oxford Zeneca is safe and effective, in fact probably safer because it is been safely used for sometime in similar derivatives which is partly why we were able to design and manufacture so quickly plus modifications to new variations of Covid
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 25, 2021 14:17:12 GMT 1
We've got some problems this side for sure and some of that is related to the AstraZeneca vaccine. For all the talk of getting the vaccines to the EU, here in Germany I think the press have now dubbed it the "shelf warmer" because of the numbers that are sat about. So you have those people in the population who are reluctant to get vaccinated anyway (no matter what the vaccine). Now we are seeing more and more people asking that they should be able to choose what vaccine they have (as in, not the AstraZeneca vaccine). Just looking at our local Nachrichten now and you see people in the comments section wanting a choice. So then the question will there be enough of the other vaccines to meet this demand and when can they be provided and is there enough people in the population who are willing to take the AstraZeneca vaccine. The thing is, this could push us back weeks or maybe months. But its all a "maybe". Whether they will demand somehow people must take what is offered (and what the repercussions are if they don't). Whether they can meet the demand fairly quickly of those who don't want the AstraZeneca vaccine with the other vaccines. I guess we should no more when they open up the vaccinations to the wider public. I think the talk we heard around the AstraZeneca vaccine and the deliveries, contract etc. has come back to bite us on the arse here. They will find out in time the Oxford Zeneca is safe and effective, in fact probably safer because it is been safely used for sometime in similar derivatives which is partly why we were able to design and manufacture so quickly plus modifications to new variations of Covid There's over a million AZ vaccine shots in storage in Germany. If it's the talk the other week questioning how effective the AZ vaccine was with over 60 year olds then why not offer AZ to customer facing younger people? Sort it out, or send your stored vaccines to a country that wants them! 24th Feb 2021 , " dear British, we envy you."
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 25, 2021 14:21:49 GMT 1
So it's not fair to compare deaths, but it is fair to compare vaccination rates. Ok then! To answer your other question, we'll never know. You can speculate to your hearts content, but knowing is something nobody can do. Unless of course you know of a parallel universe where the remain vote won, in which case can you help sort out some way for me to get there. so i made it simple for you with a full explanation and what did you do remove the explanation bit, and keep the vague bit as it sounds better, and then you went all david icke I quoted your post in full, so how did I remove any explanation?
I am happy to admit that the government have got the vaccine rollout very right and the NHS are doing a fabulous job of getting people vaccinated.
Are you ever going to be prepared to admit that the amount of Covid deaths in the UK is in any way down to poor government decisions or are you going to constantly blame other factors?
The fact that we are an island should have given us at least some protection, but incompetence from the government and selfishness from certain sections of the population have caused among the worst death rates in the world. The government allowing those sections of the population to spread the virus through allowing Cheltenham Festival to go ahead, allowing football matches to be played in front of 50,000 fans some of whom came from Spain, one of the early European hotspots, letting people travel in from around the world, Italy especially, in the early weeks of the pandemic have all contributed to our horrendous death toll.
Failing to get the correct PPE to hospitals and care homes in a timely fashion exacerbated a bad start to our response. Eat Out to Help Out may have given a few businesses a boost, but a smaller discount on opening up and spreading the rush over 7 days instead of just 3 days would have been just as beneficial, if not moreso. On that point I see that Sunak is likely to renew EOTHO once we restart again, which would be even more stupid than the first incarnation.
I have never said that everything the government did was wrong and even some of things they did get wrong were due to trying to do the right thing and even I can accept that. Can you at least accept that over 130,000 deaths is a bad thing and the government have to take at least some of the blame?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 14:22:52 GMT 1
All very well to say that but it is patently obvious that the decisions made could have been much, much better. You have of course been privy to all the SAGE advice given to government and also were no doubt aware in advance of the Kent mutation which was responsible for the rapid spread of the virus around the start of the year and the cause of around half the total number of deaths. It is not 'patently obvious' to any rational person with no political axe to grind. Well your "axe" appears to be a blatantly sycophantic blunt chopper.
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Post by Pilch on Feb 25, 2021 14:45:45 GMT 1
so i made it simple for you with a full explanation and what did you do remove the explanation bit, and keep the vague bit as it sounds better, and then you went all david icke I quoted your post in full, so how did I remove any explanation?
I am happy to admit that the government have got the vaccine rollout very right and the NHS are doing a fabulous job of getting people vaccinated.
Are you ever going to be prepared to admit that the amount of Covid deaths in the UK is in any way down to poor government decisions or are you going to constantly blame other factors?
The fact that we are an island should have given us at least some protection, but incompetence from the government and selfishness from certain sections of the population have caused among the worst death rates in the world. The government allowing those sections of the population to spread the virus through allowing Cheltenham Festival to go ahead, allowing football matches to be played in front of 50,000 fans some of whom came from Spain, one of the early European hotspots, letting people travel in from around the world, Italy especially, in the early weeks of the pandemic have all contributed to our horrendous death toll.
Failing to get the correct PPE to hospitals and care homes in a timely fashion exacerbated a bad start to our response. Eat Out to Help Out may have given a few businesses a boost, but a smaller discount on opening up and spreading the rush over 7 days instead of just 3 days would have been just as beneficial, if not moreso. On that point I see that Sunak is likely to renew EOTHO once we restart again, which would be even more stupid than the first incarnation.
I have never said that everything the government did was wrong and even some of things they did get wrong were due to trying to do the right thing and even I can accept that. Can you at least accept that over 130,000 deaths is a bad thing and the government have to take at least some of the blame?
you may have quoted my whole explanation but you ignored the explanation, and then you said, to answer your other question....but didnt, you waffled on about sci fi and you are using cheltenham again in hindsight, on here one person questioned cheltenham and got shot down, you certainly were not shouting about cancelling anything or locking down everything, lets say covid fizzled out early march, every time cheltnham came round you'd be saying remember when the gov needlessly cancelled it maybe we should all have locked ourselves in a darkened room ? blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/59405/swine-flu-footballcome back when you've actually made a valid warning before it happened and not 12 months after
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Post by cabanas2017 on Feb 25, 2021 14:56:32 GMT 1
Pilch and Neilsalop I can’t believe your lovers tiff is still going 😉
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