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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 21:18:50 GMT 1
Mortgagehound All designs and opinions were put forward and the four choices were those that the SP and club felt were most reflective of the most popular designs and thoughts of fans. It disappoints me that all of a sudden there are challenges on the choices when there has been plenty of opportunity for everyone to have their views put forward. I'm not aware that you attended any of the meetings about the badge, if you did then I apologise, if not, then you missed your chance. Mr Tonykellysbelly. I have not seen these designs until today. When were these circulated previously to the fan base. Or was thiis just for the benefit of the inner circle of the SP? These designs look as amateurish as the badge it replaces if previous criticism of current badge is anything to go by. If the wider fan base was lobbied for views on current badge then why on earth are we rushing forward with these shocking designs without having a broad choice of different professionally drafts? And who says they can't be changed? My 11year old son laughed at them and I sense the majority of fans are underwhelmed at this offering. Before more mistakes are made let's put the hand brake on and look at some professionally drafted options that those other than the clique of the SP can decide upon. This is everyone's badge so let's consult everyone properly
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 20, 2014 21:23:29 GMT 1
And I just remembered a couple of years of baiting . Don't get sidetracked people.
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Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Sept 20, 2014 21:25:55 GMT 1
The position of the campaign on these designs.
First things first, the primary focus of our campaign - the Loggerheads. We have always maintained that, contrary to the advice STFC received back in 2007, it is indeed perfectly possible to produce a club badge which incorporates the Loggerheads - in their traditional triangular formation - in a club badge. Collating our research, as well as that of the Supporters' Parliament and The Club indicated that there are probably two ways in which that can be achieved - either by modifying the design on the Loggerheads themselves so that they are sufficiently unique to the club, or by incorporating the full name of the club - "Shrewsbury Town Football Club", making it explicitly clear to whom the badge belongs. In the end, the latter option has been chosen in the design choices. We consider this preferable as it allows the club to return to the traditional Loggerheads we know and love, whist at the same time avoiding the "modernisation" trap, whereby a modified Loggerheads badge already looks outdated a couple of years down the line.
There is however, a very obvious trade-off to this. The shield used by the club between 1993 and 2007 will clearly not be returning. We made the case to the club that this was the badge the clear favourite among supporters. However, we accept the reasoning to switch to a circular design, to some extent on the basis that it would be hard for any future regime to justify a departure from the Loggerheads on copyright grounds, should the club already be represented by a copyrighted badge incorporating them. The restoration of the Loggerheads is not a battle we intend to repeat!
It would be fair to say that a failure to return to the old shield is disappointing to many people including ourselves. However it is always worth remembering one thing. We sought a return to the Loggerheads, and what have we got? A return to the Loggerheads. We cannot be too disheartened that the shape of the badge is our first choice. It was always likely that a compromise had to made somewhere, and it is for the best that this is it, rather than other elements of the design.
Loggerheads aside, what about the general design of the badge?
First of all, it is fantastic news that "Floreat Salopia" shall be returning to the badge of STFC, it is our battle cry, our identity, and it is only right that it should feature on any badge representing our club. We will feel immense pride in the fact that the players representing our club will be wearing that motto once again, and we can only hope that they feel the same!
Secondly - the continued inclusion of 1886 is welcomed - a reminder of the clubs proud 128 year history.
Last of all, it hasn't gone unnoticed that the text is a vast improvement on the nonsensical "Shrewsbury Town - STFC" which adorned the clip-art logo. For if you spelled out the abbreviations you got "Shrewsbury Town - Shrewsbury Town Football Club". The sad thing was, that wasn't even close to being most amateur aspect of the logo. The simple "Shrewsbury Town Football Club" on the new designs is a much more professional look. The only minor disappointment for us is that the text is white and not amber as we suggested, but that was not by any stretch of the imagination a deal breaker.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Sept 20, 2014 21:32:04 GMT 1
Personally I like all the badges on offer.
And that comes from someone who has the the loggerheads 'shield' tattooed on him.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Sept 20, 2014 21:59:56 GMT 1
I like them. The circle is a subjective matter but personally think it's ok and assume that it aids copyright and makes transitioning from the hideous clipart rubbish easier. Don't see the point of a vote though when it's already so far down the design path. Someone just make a decision and be done with it. And while we're on the topic of votes, I also don't see the point on kit votes. I'd prefer them to just accept the fact that most town fans want B&A stripes and stick with that basic design, tweaking things slightly (collar style, stripe thickness, sleeve design, positioning of badge and sponsor logo etc) when a new kit is needed, like Newcastle do.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 20, 2014 22:54:51 GMT 1
I like them. The circle is a subjective matter but personally think it's ok and assume that it aids copyright and makes transitioning from the hideous clipart rubbish easier. Don't see the point of a vote though when it's already so far down the design path. Someone just make a decision and be done with it. And while we're on the topic of votes, I also don't see the point on kit votes. I'd prefer them to just accept the fact that most town fans want B&A stripes and stick with that basic design, tweaking things slightly (collar style, stripe thickness, sleeve design, positioning of badge and sponsor logo etc) when a new kit is needed, like Newcastle do. Blue and Amber stripes only happen when there is a kit vote. So much so, that when with the current home kit club didn't want blue and amber stripes, they refused to include them as an option. And we ended up with the kit with blue and amber pin stripes! We've never had a kit vote where the winning design wasn't the closest to the spinal tap shirt of all the options.
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Post by Chic on Sept 21, 2014 0:40:41 GMT 1
This isn't a rebranding... this is a refurbishment!
I can't believe I'm saying this but I would rather have another year of clippy if it means we get more time to get this right! Why the rush...?
I waited 7 years for these 4 designs!
More choice of original designs needed.. Not a vote on the colour of 1886!
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Post by shrewverton on Sept 21, 2014 0:43:19 GMT 1
Has to be option B for me
Although disappointed with the options I too would have favoured the chance of letting fans come up with some designs and then narrowing that selection down to allow us to vote from the shortlist
But I guess time is the issue to get things in place for a launch at the end of the season or early pre season
I suppose I am being picky and should just be satisfied that at long last the loggerheads return
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:49:11 GMT 1
Mortgagehound All designs and opinions were put forward and the four choices were those that the SP and club felt were most reflective of the most popular designs and thoughts of fans. It disappoints me that all of a sudden there are challenges on the choices when there has been plenty of opportunity for everyone to have their views put forward. I'm not aware that you attended any of the meetings about the badge, if you did then I apologise, if not, then you missed your chance. Mr Tonykellysbelly. I have not seen these designs until today. When were these circulated previously to the fan base. Or was thiis just for the benefit of the inner circle of the SP? These designs look as amateurish as the badge it replaces if previous criticism of current badge is anything to go by. If the wider fan base was lobbied for views on current badge then why on earth are we rushing forward with these shocking designs without having a broad choice of different professionally drafts? And who says they can't be changed? My 11year old son laughed at them and I sense the majority of fans are underwhelmed at this offering. Before more mistakes are made let's put the hand brake on and look at some professionally drafted options that those other than the clique of the SP can decide upon. This is everyone's badge so let's consult everyone properly No it wasn’t. I went along and I can vouch that an open and frank discussion was had. For example I liked eeeeeeed’s (enough e’s) design and tried to get it included. It was explained that there may be copy write issues, some people didn’t like it and some said there was too much detail. I questioned the lack of fan engagement and it was explained to me that a new badge, new kit and new kit deal had to signed before Xmas so the new shirt would be on sale against Plymouth. Some people were against the white in the badges. I argued that white it just as much part of our heritage, history and identity as blue and amber. On a personal level I have worked with Mike, Roger and Ade when I was actively involved in the Trust. Not only can I vouch for their integrity I can also vouch for how hard it is to engage RW in any sort of discussion around change and fan engagement. I can also vouch for the integrity of Selwyn another activist. I don’t know Geoff or Justin well enough to vouch for them, but they seemed committed and passionate. On a general point this achievement shouldn’t be underestimated. Remember these activists are in full time employment/education or run their own business. They have families and other interests. Believe me they haven’t done this for ‘ s and giggles’. Finally I’ll be proud to wear whatever badge is chosen by our fan base. Not just because it has the three symbols that identify strongly with town, county and Club, but because fellow supporters have campaigned for change, believed in what is right and refused to maintain the status quo.
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Post by Matster on Sept 21, 2014 10:29:21 GMT 1
B is probably the better option as it balances better and has a hint of Amber in the right way.
What gets my goat though is that it just looks like a badly photo edited job that a ten year old could do taking the current badge and sticking a cropped loggerhead into the centre. Varying the design only very slightly and say that there as four choices.
I would perhaps liked to have seen a bit more variety and perhaps a choice of traditional loggerheads and a fresher version of it too. Admittedly most would go for one of those already on offer if there was more variety anyway!
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Post by suttonshrew on Sept 21, 2014 10:32:39 GMT 1
Hi guys, I'm not going to bad mouth anyone's view on here it's good to see people's opinions.
The criticism of the sp really is out of order, this has been setup to include all fans not just the standard supporters groups. Things have moved so quickly on this that at times we have had to call meetings at 24 hrs notice. I'm not going to apologise for that it's needed to be done.
The club are looking next season at a new shirt. So missing out on this window would set us back at least 2 years and leave us with clippy for that. If that's what people want then I'm quite happy to go back to the club and say that. Personally the feedback I've had not only from so but other fans I've spoken to has been very positive. Various designs were put forward and discussed, I'll be honest some were good some wouldn't work, the club stipulated they wanted a round badge, I personally think that's a fair trade off to get the loggerheads back.
The badge chosen was liked by all, it then came down to 'but do we have 1886 here' or 'do we have that in Amber' hence the choices.
All the colours used are the clubs core colours set out when we moved.
Cheers Mike
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 21, 2014 10:50:58 GMT 1
I accept the badge on face value, although disappointed with the result, as a stop gap measure, so that starting now we get cracking on designing a proper shield based badge for the next rebrand after next. I fully accept the club and parliament were up against strict time deadlines to get the new kit and badge up and running.
but for heavens sake rejoice in the principle of the loggerheads return and be proud to wear that ruddy new badge next season. time to quit carping, know your plaice and for Hake's sake move on! with apologies to "Flippin Fish"
Hey we have a big game on Tuesday and 6 awkward games coming up. Floreat Salopia!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 21, 2014 12:05:59 GMT 1
Well, may I ask what you expected to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?
I'm reminded of this when reading this thread. I'm a tad confused with the response. Loggerheads? Check. Club name? Check. 1886? Check. Floreat Salopia? Check. What else are people expecting?!
Educated guess is that the round badge is needed because if differentiates our badge with that say of the council.
We wanted a badge that represented who we are. This does. Simple as.
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 21, 2014 12:34:51 GMT 1
yes it differentiates but who are we? We are Shrewsbury Town FC and the official council badge in use since the early 15th centuries should be identical to one to be used on the our left breasts. yes the club and parliament were up against time, but we have our loggerheads back.
time now for Roland to get round the Table with Beverley Baker, mayor of the town and bring back our historic shield Badge. in the mean time I am happy to go with an interim "Ruddy" Badge,
with a little more effort AJ could make himself mighty unpopular on here. see you 11/10/14 to see "herds of Wildebeest charging the Cheltenham goal mouth! Floreat Salopia to you all up there!
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Post by mattmw on Sept 21, 2014 12:43:00 GMT 1
As Walcotwag says this is far from a perfect compromise but much better than the lion logo we had before. Probably time to move on with this compromise and wait a couple of years for the full club rebrand, and a professionally designed and consulted new badge with it a bit better than this cut and paste photoshop job
What does annoy me is the club knows full well it's schedules for getting next seasons kit sorted, so should have been consulting on this last Christmas to give time for a full and proper rebrand to take place. To now force through this quick supposed "consultation" really shows how out of touch they are about the modern commercial world. It's disappointing even now how little the fans views are valued, and it really needs to change.
Think we all know the change needed at the club for that to happen, so for now let's celebrate the death of clippy and the start of the rise of the loggerheads. Well done to all those involved for slaying the lion!
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Post by davycrockett on Sept 21, 2014 12:53:23 GMT 1
The position of the campaign on these designs. First things first, the primary focus of our campaign - the Loggerheads. We have always maintained that, contrary to the advice STFC received back in 2007, it is indeed perfectly possible to produce a club badge which incorporates the Loggerheads - in their traditional triangular formation - in a club badge. Collating our research, as well as that of the Supporters' Parliament and The Club indicated that there are probably two ways in which that can be achieved - either by modifying the design on the Loggerheads themselves so that they are sufficiently unique to the club, or by incorporating the full name of the club - "Shrewsbury Town Football Club", making it explicitly clear to whom the badge belongs. In the end, the latter option has been chosen in the design choices. We consider this preferable as it allows the club to return to the traditional Loggerheads we know and love, whist at the same time avoiding the "modernisation" trap, whereby a modified Loggerheads badge already looks outdated a couple of years down the line. There is however, a very obvious trade-off to this. The shield used by the club between 1993 and 2007 will clearly not be returning. We made the case to the club that this was the badge the clear favourite among supporters. However, we accept the reasoning to switch to a circular design, to some extent on the basis that it would be hard for any future regime to justify a departure from the Loggerheads on copyright grounds, should the club already be represented by a copyrighted badge incorporating them. The restoration of the Loggerheads is not a battle we intend to repeat! It would be fair to say that a failure to return to the old shield is disappointing to many people including ourselves. However it is always worth remembering one thing. We sought a return to the Loggerheads, and what have we got? A return to the Loggerheads. We cannot be too disheartened that the shape of the badge is our first choice. It was always likely that a compromise had to made somewhere, and it is for the best that this is it, rather than other elements of the design. Loggerheads aside, what about the general design of the badge? First of all, it is fantastic news that "Floreat Salopia" shall be returning to the badge of STFC, it is our battle cry, our identity, and it is only right that it should feature on any badge representing our club. We will feel immense pride in the fact that the players representing our club will be wearing that motto once again, and we can only hope that they feel the same! Secondly - the continued inclusion of 1886 is welcomed - a reminder of the clubs proud 128 year history. Last of all, it hasn't gone unnoticed that the text is a vast improvement on the nonsensical "Shrewsbury Town - STFC" which adorned the clip-art logo. For if you spelled out the abbreviations you got "Shrewsbury Town - Shrewsbury Town Football Club". The sad thing was, that wasn't even close to being most amateur aspect of the logo. The simple "Shrewsbury Town Football Club" on the new designs is a much more professional look. The only minor disappointment for us is that the text is white and not amber as we suggested, but that was not by any stretch of the imagination a deal breaker. Why don't you answer what seems to be the main criticism i.e. the 4 designs all are so similar the fans wont have chosen the design just where the date goes and the slight difference in the words / colour-way.....
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 21, 2014 12:58:49 GMT 1
Ah the chairman's problems with engaging with the club's fanbase.
It is characterised by a dismissal of any point that differs from his own and undoes some of the good work that his efforts over the years.
I'm fine with that. Which is just as well as it won't change.
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Post by suttonshrew on Sept 21, 2014 13:06:00 GMT 1
I have answered the question. Of all the circular designs this was the one which had everything in it. Shrewsbury town, 1886, florist salopia and the loggerheads. It was then a case that people said 'I prefer this in amber' etc hence the choices.
If we had put random other choices forward knowing people wouldn't have voted for them we would have got slated for that.
From a circular badge there is only so much you can do. Once u have added the 4 items everyone wanted I can't see what else you could have added. We looked at the loggerheads, considered more contemporary designs but a majority wanted the classical ones.
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Post by champagneprince on Sept 21, 2014 13:58:06 GMT 1
Let's get it on those shirts. The Loggerheads is back and the club are behind it !
In the world of training you ask attendees how you can improve things and they always say
1. Can we have biscuits ?
So you get them biscuits and they say
2. Can we have Custard Creams as well as Garibaldi's ?
So you get them Custard Creams and they say
3. Can we have biscuits from Waitrose instead of Tesco ?
So you get them biscuits from Waitrose and they say
4. We don't see a point in having biscuits, they just get in the way and make a mess of the table.
We've all got what we want and the club are happy with it. Let's get it on those shirts !
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Post by neilsalop on Sept 21, 2014 15:19:07 GMT 1
Mr Tonykellysbelly. I have not seen these designs until today. When were these circulated previously to the fan base. Or was thiis just for the benefit of the inner circle of the SP? These designs look as amateurish as the badge it replaces if previous criticism of current badge is anything to go by. If the wider fan base was lobbied for views on current badge then why on earth are we rushing forward with these shocking designs without having a broad choice of different professionally drafts? And who says they can't be changed? My 11year old son laughed at them and I sense the majority of fans are underwhelmed at this offering. Before more mistakes are made let's put the hand brake on and look at some professionally drafted options that those other than the clique of the SP can decide upon. This is everyone's badge so let's consult everyone properly No it wasn’t. I went along and I can vouch that an open and frank discussion was had. For example I liked eeeeeeed’s (enough e’s) design and tried to get it included. It was explained that there may be copy write issues, some people didn’t like it and some said there was too much detail. I questioned the lack of fan engagement and it was explained to me that a new badge, new kit and new kit deal had to signed before Xmas so the new shirt would be on sale against Plymouth. Some people were against the white in the badges. I argued that white it just as much part of our heritage, history and identity as blue and amber. On a personal level I have worked with Mike, Roger and Ade when I was actively involved in the Trust. Not only can I vouch for their integrity I can also vouch for how hard it is to engage RW in any sort of discussion around change and fan engagement. I can also vouch for the integrity of Selwyn another activist. I don’t know Geoff or Justin well enough to vouch for them, but they seemed committed and passionate. On a general point this achievement shouldn’t be underestimated. Remember these activists are in full time employment/education or run their own business. They have families and other interests. Believe me they haven’t done this for ‘ s and giggles’. Finally I’ll be proud to wear whatever badge is chosen by our fan base. Not just because it has the three symbols that identify strongly with town, county and Club, but because fellow supporters have campaigned for change, believed in what is right and refused to maintain the status quo. I don't think anyone is criticising the efforts of the SP, on the contrary I believe that most supporters are grateful for how far you have managed to get the club to bend, as you say we've got everything we all asked for. I don't actually recall many posts demanding the shield shaped badge to be honest. I do however think that the new badge will only last for Rowland's stay and once we het new owners they will hopefully look to move away from his legacy. The main thing was always to get rid of the comedy lion and get something in that we could all wear with pride. You guys have achieved this and for that you have my gratitude. The next step should be to start making plans to take things further and get a brand new traditional badge.
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Post by atcham jack on Sept 21, 2014 15:56:32 GMT 1
I think we need a new campaign. chip vans.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 21, 2014 16:44:36 GMT 1
Keep your chin up SP people. You've done a magnificent job. A few people might be chucking around ideas but the vast majority seem happy. Our new badge will be way better than the old one. Your main critique is coming from the same people it seems who critiqued . The same who said we shouldn't change. It'd cost too much. What about copyright issues? On and on they droned. They criticised the vote. Now it's about democracy and involvement. But the same people accusing you of that are ones who didn't want any involvement or democracy and roundly criticised the campaign for change. So heads down, and keep going for it. You're doing a grand job.
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Post by suttonshrew on Sept 21, 2014 16:54:21 GMT 1
Thanks TBH.
If I'm honest feedback on whole has been good and vote uptake has been excellent. End of the day we are doing this to benefit the fans and club, for me it will be a proud day when those fans who has boycotted clippy come on here and say they have brought a shirt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 17:06:18 GMT 1
No it wasn’t. I went along and I can vouch that an open and frank discussion was had. For example I liked eeeeeeed’s (enough e’s) design and tried to get it included. It was explained that there may be copy write issues, some people didn’t like it and some said there was too much detail. I questioned the lack of fan engagement and it was explained to me that a new badge, new kit and new kit deal had to signed before Xmas so the new shirt would be on sale against Plymouth. Some people were against the white in the badges. I argued that white it just as much part of our heritage, history and identity as blue and amber. On a personal level I have worked with Mike, Roger and Ade when I was actively involved in the Trust. Not only can I vouch for their integrity I can also vouch for how hard it is to engage RW in any sort of discussion around change and fan engagement. I can also vouch for the integrity of Selwyn another activist. I don’t know Geoff or Justin well enough to vouch for them, but they seemed committed and passionate. On a general point this achievement shouldn’t be underestimated. Remember these activists are in full time employment/education or run their own business. They have families and other interests. Believe me they haven’t done this for ‘ s and giggles’. Finally I’ll be proud to wear whatever badge is chosen by our fan base. Not just because it has the three symbols that identify strongly with town, county and Club, but because fellow supporters have campaigned for change, believed in what is right and refused to maintain the status quo. I don't think anyone is criticising the efforts of the SP, on the contrary I believe that most supporters are grateful for how far you have managed to get the club to bend, as you say we've got everything we all asked for. I don't actually recall many posts demanding the shield shaped badge to be honest. I do however think that the new badge will only last for Rowland's stay and once we het new owners they will hopefully look to move away from his legacy. The main thing was always to get rid of the comedy lion and get something in that we could all wear with pride. You guys have achieved this and for that you have my gratitude. The next step should be to start making plans to take things further and get a brand new traditional badge. The question was were the designs only shown to the inner circle of the SP. I answered no because I was there, plus others. This implies a lack of transparency. I wanted to be clear that a discussion place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 17:08:22 GMT 1
Ah the chairman's problems with engaging with the club's fanbase. It is characterised by a dismissal of any point that differs from his own and undoes some of the good work that his efforts over the years. I'm fine with that. Which is just as well as it won't change. Like I said don't underestimate this achievement. Also remember the outcome of most arguments is compromise.
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unclebob
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 128
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Post by unclebob on Sept 21, 2014 21:56:57 GMT 1
Keep your chin up SP people. You've done a magnificent job. A few people might be chucking around ideas but the vast majority seem happy. Our new badge will be way better than the old one. Your main critique is coming from the same people it seems who critiqued . The same who said we shouldn't change. It'd cost too much. What about copyright issues? On and on they droned. They criticised the vote. Now it's about democracy and involvement. But the same people accusing you of that are ones who didn't want any involvement or democracy and roundly criticised the campaign for change. So heads down, and keep going for it. You're doing a grand job. There is a bigger proportion of people asking questions and offering criticism than voted against the loggerheads coming back.And some of them have the loggerheads as their logo too. Its frustrating when people dismis your comments on the badge like that.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 21, 2014 22:21:49 GMT 1
If you look on Facebook and here some of the same people leading the charge where the same ones who were doing it against . Plenty of people have a wide range of views. But we are where we are. Nick nails it on compromise. We all want something different. This ticks most of the boxes.
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unclebob
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 128
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Post by unclebob on Sept 21, 2014 22:32:32 GMT 1
Dont really do facebook but I will take your word that some are the same but that is different to what you first said. There are some fair points being made about a lack of choice and it isnt just droning on and on. I would also like something different but also different to this if it going to be what we have forever.
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Post by shrewroo on Sept 21, 2014 23:44:57 GMT 1
This is not so much a vote but a pointless rubber stamping exercise, because the design has already been agreed on. The small alteration/variations are so trivial it makes essentially no difference which one is picked.
That said, it is an improvement so I don't have much cause for complaint but having seem some of the amazing fan fiction designs I'd have hoped for something a bit more along those line rather than taking the existing badge and shoehorning the loggerheads in there.
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Post by heavyglow on Sept 22, 2014 0:48:08 GMT 1
Good work SP. Huge improvement in the badge choices from what we currently have. Will vote shortly.
Utter drivel being spouted by a few as per usual. Although once someone has professed a liking for a cartoon lion I'm unsure if their critique of the potential badges can be countenanced with a straight face?
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