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Post by davewill on Oct 5, 2011 15:26:43 GMT 1
My lad plays in the Telford Junior Football league, who have a web site for fixtures, teams, results, cup comps etc etc I noticed last week that every result in every league (from U9s to U16s) was either 1-0 or 1-1 When i enquired at my lads team i was told that the league now dont put the actual score on the web site, its either 1-0 to the winning team, or 1-1 if its any drawn match This is because they dont want kids embarressed if their team has lost heavily. If thats the case whats the point of having a league table up on the web site, as those at the bottom of each league for their age group may get upset at this OK i can understand that recording a 20 - 0 score on the web site may not be good, but just limit maximum goals to say 6 as recorded for up to under 12's, then after this i am sure the lads are big enough to handle a large defeat. I tried to email the TLFL to ask if this is being done because of the PC culture, but the email link doesn't work Out of interest i looked at other local junior leagues in west mids, staffordshire etc, and they all record the actual scores, which i believe should be the case in Telford Anyone else with kids playing in the TJFL know of the reasons why this is happening this season?
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Post by Fingers on Oct 5, 2011 15:32:42 GMT 1
Are you sure the score isn't in binary?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 15:39:00 GMT 1
Are you sure the score isn't in binary? if true its bloody rediculous, and its not that i disbelieve anyone, but we all know how some of these urban myths and chinese whispers carry on. and when i say chinese whispers, im not being racist, they could be from any culture or race!
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Post by jonbond on Oct 5, 2011 15:42:37 GMT 1
Ive just checked the website, hes right. The world has gone mad, typical loony left ideology
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 15:47:02 GMT 1
Ive just checked the website, hes right. The world has gone mad, typical loony left ideology oh dear. In what way is it "looney left" ideology?
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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2011 15:56:16 GMT 1
Ive just checked the website, hes right. The world has gone mad, typical loony left ideology oh dear. In what way is it "looney left" ideology? In the eyes of the rabid right.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 5, 2011 15:57:46 GMT 1
Are you sure the score isn't in binary? if true its bloody rediculous, and its not that i disbelieve anyone, but we all know how some of these urban myths and chinese whispers carry on. and when i say chinese whispers, im not being racist, they could be from any culture or race! ... and the whispering is not to imply any disability or other-voicedness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 16:08:41 GMT 1
if true its bloody rediculous, and its not that i disbelieve anyone, but we all know how some of these urban myths and chinese whispers carry on. and when i say chinese whispers, im not being racist, they could be from any culture or race! ... and the whispering is not to imply any disability or other-voicedness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 17:15:22 GMT 1
When the County Charity Cup comes round in a weeks time I am sure the Shrewsbury based Shropshire Junior league will put the correct results up involving the Telford teams!
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kmill1966
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Post by kmill1966 on Oct 5, 2011 18:16:10 GMT 1
It is right, the powers that be have decided to do this, from next year all teams under the age of 14 (u9,10,11,12 & 13) will not play in competitive leagues anywhere! They will sort out friendlies but the results will not matter! Try telling that to my grandson who's team won all their games and did the league and cup double and the same commitee decided to place them in the B league and they're doing the same to teams this year as they did last!!
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Post by shrewsace on Oct 5, 2011 18:24:35 GMT 1
Seems ridiculous to me, but fail to see what it has to do with 'political correctness' or left politics. Seems a bit like those people who confuse health and safety legislation with political correctness. On the other hand, don't other countries produce more gifted, technically accomplished players because they don't have the pressure of competetive football, and are allowed to develop their skills without clueless parents on the sidelines shouting such pearls of wisdom as 'if in doubt, kick it out' and 'who do you think you are son, Stanley-Bloody Matthews'? Mind you they're probably all Tories.
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Post by mattmw on Oct 5, 2011 18:44:43 GMT 1
They do something similar in rugby and if one junior side gets more than 20 points ahead of the opposition they swap teams around to provide a more even game.
I'm certainly not one for non competitive sports but I'm not convinced that competitive junior leagues under 14 are that good an idea - especially where a slight miss match in the physical attributes of a team can see them stuff the opposition 12.0 by banging the ball upto the big lad up front. Which then leads to parents celebrating their team winning as though they are some sort of tactical genius
As England have showed with Crouch and Heskey banging the ball upfront to the big lad isn't a recipe for long term success or enjoyment
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 21:37:39 GMT 1
It is right, the powers that be have decided to do this, from next year all teams under the age of 14 (u9,10,11,12 & 13) will not play in competitive leagues anywhere! They will sort out friendlies but the results will not matter! Try telling that to my grandson who's team won all their games and did the league and cup double and the same commitee decided to place them in the B league and they're doing the same to teams this year as they did last!! This plan has one big flaw - utter b8ll8x Kids need to learn how to lose as well as win, suffer the heartache as well as the joy. Take away the competitive league and the kids will lose interest. The whole point of having leagues A,B,C is so the youngster find their own footballing level. Do gooders messing about with their so called PC does more harm than good. Apparently for several years now when teams reach finals, the medals have to state finalists and not winners or runners up. No wonder England have not won anything at football for 45 years!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2011 22:14:49 GMT 1
Having spent a long time involved in Junior Football, i thought the introduction of A.B. and C divisions helped prevent a strong team thrashing weaker teams . Somethings gone wrong somewhere. I'm all for equality and fairness, but this is stupid. All this rubbish about not publishing league tables to spare the feelings of those who play for teams who regularly get beaten. Right, so the lads at school don,t already work out whose top and whose bottom. Arethere quite a few women involved in the T.J.F.L. ??
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Post by mattmw on Oct 5, 2011 22:32:43 GMT 1
I think this FA led scheme to improve youth football coaching maybe behind the changes to publishing results - there seems to be some research done by the FA which shows kids under ten aren't that bothered by league tables, it's more for the parents benefit. www.clubnewsletter.co.uk/2011/feb/faproposals.html#competitiveThink in Spain and Germany there are something like 20,000 coaches with FIFA pro licences and most work in youth football. In England we have about 2000 coaches with the same qualifications and most work in the professional game Suspect the real problem with youth football is we try to do it on the cheap with no overall structure or professional standards. Whether it's competitive or not we're clearly getting left behind by other nations in Europe
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Post by blum on Oct 6, 2011 17:16:12 GMT 1
Its yet another example of why this country is going to the dogs.... No sports days because they dont want to emabarrass those who arent sporty.. Not advertising the correct results in case someone gets upset.. Its madness, throughout history there have been winners and losers, keep teaching these kids that no one loses and the future is VERY scarey.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 6, 2011 18:00:56 GMT 1
My first ever organised youth football match.......we lost 19-1 to Bayston Hill Up & Comers at Under 11's I think was the age group. Further on in life..cricketing , we were shown how to play by the then no.4 ranked Club Side in the Country....Old Hill from Birmingham who clocked up 422-5 off 45 overs in the Competition that Shrewsbury just won, mind you we do feature in their Record Books for that and also their highest individual score 228 by David Banks (ex Worcs-Warks) This silliness with the kids League is just daft, days like those stick in the memory and gives you character to react to situations, for example if we are getting carted for 200+ in a League game these days you think back to that day at Old Hill and think now that was a thumping, especially when you get sone cocky youth who thinks they are giving you a right going over.........er no Son, been there go the the t-shirt. Winning and losing to whatever extreme is LIFE....
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Post by Pilch on Oct 6, 2011 18:29:15 GMT 1
i've just looked on shrewsweb i see we narrowly lost 1-0 at southend last week totally pathetic sounds like something north korea might come up with lets teach kids to lie and hide from the truth
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 6, 2011 19:22:32 GMT 1
Which then leads to parents celebrating their team winning as though they are some sort of tactical genius I suspect its them more than the kids who are upset the true scores aren't listed...
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Post by daveshrew on Oct 6, 2011 19:40:16 GMT 1
I presume if they're not printing the real score then they don't list the names of the goalscorers either then? I used to love seeing my name in print when I got the occasional goal! This is all a massive massive shame.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 6, 2011 20:13:36 GMT 1
meanwhile
england beat india by 1 run in the 20/20
murray lost in straight sets to nadal 1-1 1-1 0-1
ronnie o'sullivan cleared up with a break of one
phil the power out a one finish
looks like a close finish in the formula 1 with vettel just 1 point ahead of maureen the learner driver
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Post by Amsterdammer on Oct 7, 2011 8:46:05 GMT 1
Ive just checked the website, hes right. The world has gone mad, typical loony left ideology Is your real name jon bond or is it Norman Mackenzie-Clarkson the famous Daily Mail columnist?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 12:38:00 GMT 1
An interesting debate
If your going to have competitive sports then in my opinion (and seemingly most peoples opinion), its ridiculous that you try and protect the kids (or anyone) by basically lying. Surely theres no point suger-coating things because it doesnt really prepare them for the big, wide, real world.
However the competitive sport for kids in the first place, well thats another debate. The argument seems to be that in England we have alot of competitive sports for young kids and its the win at all cost mentality that is holding our kids back because they do not have any opportunuity to develop their skills because the focus is on winning at all costs.
So you could take out the competitive nature in order to try and improve the kids that go on to become professional footballers.
However out of all the kids that play football, how many will go on to have a career in football? You are changing the game so a small percentage can benefit, the remaining ones will never get the experience of winning important games, winning cups, winning promotions, winning medals etc. I played for a few junior sides, was on the end of some hammerings and gave out some hammerings, played in some finals (won some, lost some), won some promotions and won some really tight fought grudge matches against certain sides. Personally I wouldnt change a thing, however I appreciate that the culture of the football didnt benefit me from a technical aspect, but it sure was fun.
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Oct 7, 2011 19:10:50 GMT 1
It is right, the powers that be have decided to do this, from next year all teams under the age of 14 (u9,10,11,12 & 13) will not play in competitive leagues anywhere! They will sort out friendlies but the results will not matter! Try telling that to my grandson who's team won all their games and did the league and cup double and the same commitee decided to place them in the B league and they're doing the same to teams this year as they did last!! This plan has one big flaw - utter b8ll8x Kids need to learn how to lose as well as win, suffer the heartache as well as the joy. Take away the competitive league and the kids will lose interest. The whole point of having leagues A,B,C is so the youngster find their own footballing level. Do gooders messing about with their so called PC does more harm than good. Apparently for several years now when teams reach finals, the medals have to state finalists and not winners or runners up. No wonder England have not won anything at football for 45 years! For ages we have been moaning about the lack of talent coming from the young of today with regard to football compared to Spain, Germany and so on. In those countries they don't do completive matches at youth level, as it's about enjoying it, having fun. Not having people screaming at you because your 1 or 2 nil down or saying that your no good because you lost 5+ to nil. For years we've taught kid the heartbreak of losing, but we have no skill coming though the ranks. Personally I think kids will enjoy it more, it more the parents that will not.
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Post by stockportershrew on Oct 7, 2011 19:52:30 GMT 1
I think the FA proposed doing away with competitive leagues for primary school age kids this year (although there's no problem with one off tournaments). They did this, as understand it on the basis of loads research amongst 8-12 year old players, who consistently told them (unlike the parents) they weren't bothered by idea competitive leagues.
My experience with my 9yr old in cricket is that they are naturally competitive and they want to win individual games but they don't seem very bothered by the idea of league unless the coaches or parents are constantly telling they should. There is an under 9s cricket league that my lad plays in but he's never asked once to see the results or the table. he wants to win the game they play but that's it - in fact half the time he can't remember who they've played are how they got on. It's clear though that some teams take it ridiculously seriously - certainly one or two clubs won't take players into junior sections unless they show skill levels. Equally, I know others who came to our club because they never got a game elsewhere (at 8/9yrs old that seems to me to be as daft as any political correctness nonsense)
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Post by der kaiser on Oct 7, 2011 19:57:39 GMT 1
Just to give you a little insight into this as a Junior Football Coach here in Telford it looks like competitive football will be phased out up to the u13 levels I believe.
This will help to promote player abilities within an environment that encourages learning the simple techniques of the game without the pressure of results.
I am sure we have all seen parents and coaches who get over excited at the side of the pitch. Hurling abuse at the ref for giving a "Wrong" decision. Coaches who only pick the biggest most physically strong players leaving smaller players without a game.
The FA believe that non competitive football will change the culture of coaching in this country from the bottom up.
A coaching system built on technique and skill rather than just physical strength.
The worst thing to happen to football in this country was winning the 1966 World Cup. It papered over the cracks thus hiding the truth about English football. It was technically backward.
Look at players from the continent and you will find that they on the whole technically competent. Which is more than can be said for the vast majority of players.
We do produce technically gifted players but these are a rarity.
So do we give the new system a proper try and hope to emulate other countries that follow a similar system such as Italy and Spain.
That is the last two countries to win the World Cup?
Or do we stick to the same old mentality that has worked so well to produce big lads who know how to kick the ball long? Which has won us F**K ALL!!!!!
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Post by Amsterdammer on Oct 8, 2011 7:55:43 GMT 1
Not sure if I've seen this was discussed earlier but one key topic is the age issue. It's well proven that at young ages, the older kids (September-December) usually do better when you have 11-a-side competitive football as strength and power is rewarded over finesse and skill. These kids then rise to the top and get the coaching and experience. This is part of the reason for toning down the amount of competition at young ages and the size and style of games. Sensible to me.
The above is a daft solution for this though.
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Post by Bordershrew on Oct 10, 2011 20:12:41 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on Oct 11, 2011 8:20:21 GMT 1
apparently there were defensive scouts from all around the world there yesterday a certain mr hansen said, typical, this side has conceded and average of 1 goal a game this season, i turn up and they lose 27-0
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 11, 2011 11:00:31 GMT 1
I'm a bit lost with the risks regarding creating a generation of bad losers. They are losing, if you're on the end of a thrashing then it's on the park not on some website listing the scores. Not as if the game is stopped once the first goal goes in. So that's just daft. The kids are learning how to lose, they are there when it happens. During the game. Where it matters. Not on some website. I really don't see the big problem with this. I can't say it would bother me either way, I wouldn't get in a flap about it. At that age I don't think it really is a big deal. I agree with the FA... ...for U7 and U8 age-groups where the focus of the game is about learning to play without the pressure of full-time scores Hear hear!!
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