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Post by SteveHayesFanClub on May 9, 2011 17:50:51 GMT 1
Why wasn't there any problems at the Accrington game - West Stand sold out.
From now on to sit in Blocks 18/19 you should then have to prove you are..
A - Drunk or on your way to it.. B - Able to start and argument in a phone box C - Unable to work out that the letters on your ticket mean ROW nd the number mean SEAT
Some of the town "fans" at the game on Saturday where chavs with the only aspirations in live to attain the perfect love bite
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 9, 2011 17:53:17 GMT 1
Several people on this thread have alluded to young friends/relatives 'being near' to the trouble which occurred on Saturday afternoon. Pardon my bluntness, but what the hell are toddlers and small children doing anywhere near blocks 18 and 19? Surely they should be watching from the family stand or else what is the point of having a dedicated family-friendly area? If youngsters are so easily deterred by a confrontational atmosphere, surely sitting elsewhere would be advisable. This is not a defence of the trouble-making seen against Oxford, but is still a point worth making to those who have threatened to stop attending. Don't be such an idiot. Every area of every stadium should be safe for everyone attending. The family stand sold out early. A seat in block 18 is normally a good place to wtach the game from, with a bit of atmosphere. That family sit there every game. The issue here is not making anyone who is not a drunk 'ardman wannabe sit elsewhere for big games because some fatty wants to kick off with his OWN fans!
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Post by venceremos on May 9, 2011 18:04:51 GMT 1
Several people on this thread have alluded to young friends/relatives 'being near' to the trouble which occurred on Saturday afternoon. Pardon my bluntness, but what the hell are toddlers and small children doing anywhere near blocks 18 and 19? Surely they should be watching from the family stand or else what is the point of having a dedicated family-friendly area? If youngsters are so easily deterred by a confrontational atmosphere, surely sitting elsewhere would be advisable. This is not a defence of the trouble-making seen against Oxford, but is still a point worth making to those who have threatened to stop attending. Do you really think it's just "toddlers and small children" who prefer not to be with the boneheads? I'd have thought it was any sane human being. Since when was block 19 all about a "confrontational atmosphere"? Can't you tell the difference?
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Post by theriverside on May 9, 2011 18:13:08 GMT 1
I think we need to rip out the seats in block 19 and install a standing cage..................
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Post by Optimistic Shrew on May 9, 2011 18:17:05 GMT 1
Someone on my course ain't coming again to the idiots who I was talking too this morning. Let's be honest the stewarding is partly to blame for this they are a load of useless dimwits and they need to get stricter/replaced. Overall stewarding has been very poor compared to what I have seen at other clubs.
The club need to realise that the fans causing all the trouble were going to the game for just that and they could potentially be putting a large number of potential new supporters off attending again. Whilst every area of the stadium should be safe for everybody, if you get a young family who want to buy tickets unless they say they want to go in block 19 surely sense should prevail and they should be given tickets somewhere else, if they want to go in block 19 they can do.
Standing up is not the problem at all and I agree with the people who are saying about the unallocated seating for blocks 8 and 19 which have seat numbers on them, all it does is cause confusion. In block 19 it should be allocated seating for the big games and that will help stop overcrowding. Just can't believe the club print out seat numbers for unallocated seating.
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Post by hooverfoxhat on May 9, 2011 18:21:07 GMT 1
Name em, shame em, ban em - end of!
Not the first time, allegedly, that the same few have been causing trouble - if they want to act like mindless morons they know what the possible outcomes are if they get caught and this time they surely have been - c'mon STFC and do the right thing.
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Post by mattmw on May 9, 2011 18:34:26 GMT 1
Have to admit I didn't realise block 19 was unreserved seating until reading it here. Sitting in block 13 I just assumed all the ground was reserved seating and you sat in the seat allocated to you. Issuing tickets with seat numbers on in block 19 seems equally daft and was bound to lead to confusion
As mentioned in previous post time to act is now - club has had enough warning that it's a problem and should a more significant incident occur in the future resulting in a bad injury the club wouldn't have a leg to stand on
Unfortunately if that means checking everyone into the stand; enforcing the all seater rule or paying for more stewards police it got to be done even if it means some fans stop going or it costs the club a lot of cash
Not ideal I know but unfortunately actions of a few will have to impact on others in this case
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Post by Liam on May 9, 2011 18:36:35 GMT 1
I like a bit of semi-friendly needle between the two sets of supporters as much as anyone, but Saturday was way OTT.
In terms of practical solutions, I'd suggest:
1) Officially designating 18 and 19 as 'singing blocks.' Basically this implies that if you're going to go in there, the atmosphere might be a bit heated, and you're going to hear a lot of bad language. Everyone knows perfectly well that this is what 'singing' at football matches entails, and anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either being deliberately precious or obtuse. Some may argue this isn't perfect, but in reality you're better off having this part of the atmosphere contained in a monitered part of the ground.
2) Making block 19 allocated seating for big games and actually enforcing it, rather than letting anyone who fancies it push in there.
3) Netting off the bottom two rows of 18 and 19 for big games and insisting the stewards stop people from standing down the front.
4) Raised advertising hoarding at the front of the West Stand to give the stewards a physical barrier to defend against pitch invasions. I quite like the odd spontaneous pitch invasion after a really vital goal or the last game of the season, but there have been rather a lot of aggro-fueled ones since we moved grounds. Certainly a much higher per-game ratio than we ever used to see at the Gay Meadow in its last decade or so.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 18:38:30 GMT 1
Don't be such an idiot. Every area of every stadium should be safe for everyone attending. Thanks for the personal abuse, Throb. Much obliged. I never claimed that any part of the ground should be unsafe for those attending. I was just surprised at the number of children apparently caught in the crossfire of violence and felt it was a point worth raising.
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Post by d00bie on May 9, 2011 18:52:45 GMT 1
You call that personal abuse, don't be such a softy you should be
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 9, 2011 18:58:03 GMT 1
Don't be such an idiot. Every area of every stadium should be safe for everyone attending. Thanks for the personal abuse, Throb. Much obliged. I never claimed that any part of the ground should be unsafe for those attending. I was just surprised at the number of children apparently caught in the crossfire of violence and felt it was a point worth raising. It's quite funny to hear you of all people upset at 'personal abuse'. Anyway he raises a point, for those who go to few if any games, they wouldn't be aware about the differing parts of the grounds, and even if they knew, they might have just wanted to be close to the atmosphere, not neccessarily the violence that it entails.
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Post by shrewsace on May 9, 2011 19:07:47 GMT 1
Personally, I love it when we're up against your Vales, Herefords, Wrexhams etc and the bitter rivalry between the fans adds an extra bit of spice to the occasion.
What, though, is the appeal of sitting in a block where the local neanderthals are brawling amongst themselves?
The there's the infantile attention seeking of the 'I'm going to run on the pitch and show the lads how much it means to me', types.
Not quite as bad as the in-fighting, but just as pathetic.
This kind of ****wittery should not be tolerated or indulged on the grounds that they're 'loyal supporters'.
Anyone engaged in such activity is plainly an inexcuseable bell end.
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Post by WindsorShrew on May 9, 2011 19:31:50 GMT 1
Personally, I love it when we're up against your Vales, Herefords, Wrexhams etc and the bitter rivalry between the fans adds an extra bit of spice to the occasion. What, though, is the appeal of sitting in a block where the local neanderthals are brawling amongst themselves? The there's the infantile attention seeking of the 'I'm going to run on the pitch and show the lads how much it means to me', types. Not quite as bad as the in-fighting, but just as pathetic. This kind of ****wittery should not be tolerated or indulged on the grounds that they're 'loyal supporters'. Anyone engaged in such activity is plainly an inexcuseable bell end. Frank and to the point, good post. You just missed crossdressing nursie woofta off your last sentence.....
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 19:42:40 GMT 1
Several people on this thread have alluded to young friends/relatives 'being near' to the trouble which occurred on Saturday afternoon. Pardon my bluntness, but what the hell are toddlers and small children doing anywhere near blocks 18 and 19? Surely they should be watching from the family stand or else what is the point of having a dedicated family-friendly area? If youngsters are so easily deterred by a confrontational atmosphere, surely sitting elsewhere would be advisable. This is not a defence of the trouble-making seen against Oxford, but is still a point worth making to those who have threatened to stop attending. The only ones who should stop attending are those idiots who went out of their way to cause trouble on Saturday. By the way my 20year old daughter was with me in block 17 & she was scared about what was happening....why she should see or anyone have to feel that way?
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Post by Bob Rickerton on May 9, 2011 20:25:43 GMT 1
1) Officially designating 18 and 19 as 'singing blocks.' Basically this implies that if you're going to go in there, the atmosphere might be a bit heated, and you're going to hear a lot of bad language. Everyone knows perfectly well that this is what 'singing' at football matches entails, and anyone who tries to argue otherwise is either being deliberately precious or obtuse. Some may argue this isn't perfect, but in reality you're better off having this part of the atmosphere contained in a monitered part of the ground. I think this is an excellent idea.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 9, 2011 20:59:54 GMT 1
Don't be such an idiot. Every area of every stadium should be safe for everyone attending. Thanks for the personal abuse, Throb. Much obliged. I never claimed that any part of the ground should be unsafe for those attending. I was just surprised at the number of children apparently caught in the crossfire of violence and felt it was a point worth raising. From someone on a warning level 99% for consistently calling other people names We are not talking about swearing here Geoff. We are not talking about standing. We are not talking about running to the front. We are not talking about singing. We are not talking about "edge" or "confrontation" or "banter" We are talking about grown men fully swinging punches at one another, diving across other people, stewards steaming in and a big ruck forming on the stairs with punches flying all over the place and people being dragged away, with innocent bystanders being knocked to the floor. Of course, you would have known all that if you had been there.
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Post by floreatsalopia1 on May 9, 2011 21:06:24 GMT 1
Thanks for the personal abuse, Throb. Much obliged. I never claimed that any part of the ground should be unsafe for those attending. I was just surprised at the number of children apparently caught in the crossfire of violence and felt it was a point worth raising. From someone on a warning level 99% for consistently calling other people names We are not talking about swearing here Geoff. We are not talking about standing. We are not talking about running to the front. We are not talking about singing. We are not talking about "edge" or "confrontation" or "banter" We are talking about grown men fully swinging punches at one another, diving across other people, stewards steaming in and a big ruck forming on the stairs with punches flying all over the place and people being dragged away, with innocent bystanders being knocked to the floor. Of course, you would have known all that if you had been there. good post!
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 21:29:16 GMT 1
Don't be such an idiot. Every area of every stadium should be safe for everyone attending. Thanks for the personal abuse, Throb. Much obliged. I never claimed that any part of the ground should be unsafe for those attending. I was just surprised at the number of children apparently caught in the crossfire of violence and felt it was a point worth raising. Geoff, dont see that as personal abuse, your post on this in my opinion is also idiotic, you have this way of of trying to portray certain aspects of watching football as must stand, must sing and must have "banter" with the away fans. 90% of people had a great day on Saturday, 9.9% had their day spoilt by people who wanted to do the 3 things listed, bythe .1% who could not contain themselves. You have decided that the stadium has become a sterile environment, But Saturday rivilled most of what I ever saw at the old stadium, and guess what!! i did it from the comfort of a seat!! stood when it was really exciting, sung when I felt the need, and enjoyed the whole lot!! It does not matter where you sit!! you should be able stand/sit or do what you feel the need to without disrupting others or spoiling there enjoyment!! The new ground is far better than what we had at the old stadium, and it does not miss you 1 little bit, no matter how you try to justify the acts of people, and I would hope and maintain that small children and toddlers should be safe no matter what part of the ground they are in!! You can obviously shout this down and put as much FACT on it as you want, but the end of the day mate, we are far better off now, in the new stadium, and that is with, or without you!! The only place within the confines of the ground where there should be signs on confrontation is on the field of play!! not anywhere within the viewing or spectator areas!!
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Post by Mike on May 9, 2011 22:20:34 GMT 1
Yeah what those lads did on Saturday was ridiculous.
Everyone knows that if you want a fight at the footy you don't do it in the ground. It's not the 1980's any more.
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Post by townfanincrewe on May 9, 2011 22:25:41 GMT 1
This would not of been so much of a problem if it was not all seats. The last time G T was here there was fighting of some sort what felt like (at the age of 13) most weeks, but you could just move. Me and my dad used to stand on the riverside each week, but you could feel when there was going to be trouble and you just moved over to the tec end. I know its supposed to be safer now but iv been to a few games where i would of loved not to be sat by the people in the few seats near me. if some one kicks off you stand up and move (no standing allowed) or you sit still and put up with the problem. Until the club find a better way of doing things. Not condoning any fighting just it was nice to be able to move away if it happens.
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Post by onthetrain92 on May 9, 2011 22:31:20 GMT 1
As said Block 19 is just a perfect recipe for disaster as a singing and unreserved block, the best thing is to close it down and only use it when its needed as over flow. All those that were in block 9 its time to go back there for next season regardless of if we go up on stay down.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 22:36:25 GMT 1
Firstly, I don’t seriously regard being called an ‘idiot’ as personal abuse. I’ve been dishing out comments for years and I can certainly take it in return. Knock yourselves out. I can remember Paul “Mr. Respect” Downward calling me a ‘little c***’ at the age of thirteen and I wasn’t even bothered then, let alone now. I think some of the less observant messageboard contributors are implying that I’ve supported the violence and bloodshed witnessed in block 19. Far from it, it is unacceptable and certainly an embarrassment to our lovely town. I simply pointed out my surprise that the events could occur in front of several vulnerable youngsters and gathered families – nothing more. Perhaps this is not the correct thread for a ‘who should sit where’ debate and I offer my sincere apologies to anyone that I have offended. As for Paul, I am genuinely delighted that you enjoyed your matchday experience on Saturday. I however do note that you admit to ‘standing when the game got exciting’ which clearly flouts the ground regulations you spent months attempting to justify. Some would call you a hypocrite, but I myself think you’re a passionate fan and that casual standing should be encouraged and not condoned. I’m sure that the stadium does indeed ‘not miss me’ and have never suggested otherwise. There are plenty more newfound supporters that will gladly take my place. There can also be little doubt that the club is in a more secure position than it was previously at the Gay Meadow. For me though, supporting a lower-league club was never about financial prowess or the ability to host Championship football. It was about character and identity; two facets desperately lacking from the new venue. Once again, I don’t think this is the correct thread for such a debate but I’d be happy to explain my logic elsewhere. To summarise, physical violence should obviously not be tolerated in any football ground. I do not condone the conduct of the perpetrators and hope they are identified and swiftly banned.
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Post by Fingers on May 9, 2011 22:39:21 GMT 1
This would not of been so much of a problem if it was not all seats. The last time G T was here there was fighting of some sort what felt like (at the age of 13) most weeks, but you could just move. Me and my dad used to stand on the riverside each week, but you could feel when there was going to be trouble and you just moved over to the tec end. I know its supposed to be safer now but iv been to a few games where i would of loved not to be sat by the people in the few seats near me. if some one kicks off you stand up and move (no standing allowed) or you sit still and put up with the problem. Until the club find a better way of doing things. Not condoning any fighting just it was nice to be able to move away if it happens. Another good post and a reflection of the tolerance that used to exist. It was commonplace for racial or homophobic slurs on the terraces of the 80's and 90's and that has been stamped out. What happened Saturday is exactly why football fans are sometimes treated like animals at games especially away fans. The standing thing is ridiculous - every week in the prem you see it, vast majority at Old Trafford on Sunday and Craven Cottage (away fans) this evening. Was there any trouble? Not I'm aware of - standing can be done without issues but these people on sat ruinned it for the rest of us hence weeding them out.
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Post by gingashrew on May 9, 2011 23:18:52 GMT 1
I have come to more games and enjoyed them more than I might have done due to the unreserved, tolerant of standing policies that we have seen of late in 19. Obviously people with tickets for other blocks shouldn't be allowed in, there is also a case for a couple of stewards in the walkway and maybe netting or raised boards at the front.
Much of what is being suggested, though, is punishing a lot of decent people who want to enjoy the game with a bit of atmosphere; a tiny proportion of people came for a ruck and found one. They could have found a ruck in an empty room by the looks of them.
There aren't many and if they were banned then the money recouped from others being more comfortable to come regularly would eclipse their financial input.
Is it so hard to name and shame? Are the club / police doing all they can?
Does anyone else feel that a lot of people on here feel strongly about this but some might prefer this to just go away (under the carpet)?
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Post by theshrews81 on May 10, 2011 7:37:47 GMT 1
Response from the club to some questions asked
Hi Matthew, Please find answers from Ian Bebbington, cheers Ian. Thanks for your questions. Firstly it is not a condition of Law that persons entering a field of play are mandatory arrested, however we can obtain the details from the persons encroaching onto his pitch area and we can hand those over to the Police and request a banning order – There are obvious limitations with this – we can also hand people over to the police on ejection providing we have Police authorise on our stadium footprint – Which we did not have at the end of this game so the only option we have is to eject from the stadium footprint. I apologise if one of our stewards was rude in fact this was brought to my attention and was spoken about in the de briefing of the match. Regarding the players coming back on to the pitch – Our aim of the day was for everybody to enjoy themselves regardless of the result of the day – Whilst there were limited pitch incursions they were soon removed and most were ejected 1 of which was reported to the Police – this will lead to a banning order being issued. I think it was only fair and in considering the balance of the day it was appropriate for us to allow the players back onto the pitch so the majority of supporters had the opportunity to see the players whilst the Minority were being dealt with. Finally The Control room on days like these are a highly responsive area – we are able to evaluate all happenings within and outside the stadium and we have to prioritise in order the incidents that are taking place – however the main objective of the Control room is to keep all supporters safe in a controlled environment it is just a shame that some of own supporters let themselves down badly which does not help anybody least of all the football club as it could be subjected to a fine with incidents like these. Thank you for your comments Kind Regards
An interesting response but doesn't really say how the club will tackle those idiots
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 10, 2011 8:17:47 GMT 1
So the tannoy message saying that anyone running on the pitch was a hollow threat.
This is a weak response which can only give the message to actual and wannabe hooligans that STFC are a soft touch.
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 10, 2011 10:34:17 GMT 1
That response seems to indicate that only 1 person will be banned - despite the fact that two clearly tried to jump into the oxford end and throw punches, and that mr pink punched one of them. And that doesn't include whatever confrontation that occured on the steps.
Not sure how that fits in with the family club image
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Post by Fingers on May 10, 2011 11:12:56 GMT 1
That response seems to indicate that only 1 person will be banned - despite the fact that two clearly tried to jump into the oxford end and throw punches, and that mr pink punched one of them. And that doesn't include whatever confrontation that occured on the steps. Not sure how that fits in with the family club image Perhaps they are related?
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Post by eclipsechaser on May 10, 2011 21:06:28 GMT 1
I think we've solved the problem here ...... 1/ no unreserved seating in block 19 2/ zero tolerance for fans entering the field of play - law 3/ enforce seating in all blocks - all seater stadium rule The club tried to let fans in block 19 enjoy the experience but a small minority have spoiled it for the majority so the above action should be in place before the next match That MUST be balanced with respect to the usual fans that go every week and cause no trouble . Why punish the well behaved ?
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Post by eclipsechaser on May 10, 2011 21:11:25 GMT 1
Davey I fail to see how making everyone sit down will solve the problem? standing is not the issue, the points around unreserved seating needing to be clarified are spot on yes but lets face it those idiots on saturday would have caused trouble matter where they were! why punish everyone in block 19 for the behaviour of a small minority of idiots who can only be prevented from repeating this with clear action from the club and authorities. I stand in block 19 because I want to stand but ive never been on the pitch or engaged in fighting! I think we all have to accept there should have been a greater police presence for this game and no doubt there will be against torquay COYB Your right standing wasn't the problem, over crowded stand was! so only making people sit will make sure correct numbers are there when we have a sell-out ............... The stand was not over crowded !! That was not the cause of the trouble ! The trouble was caused by the Ludlow idiots that turned up for a drunken punch up and were not interested primarily in the football . Don't confuse the facts .
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