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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Sept 26, 2010 19:56:28 GMT 1
When Neal slightly misplaced the wall vs Northampton, some people who must have an agenda, ignored the fact that he dominated the box, claimed every catch and generally bossed the defence excellently, an instead decided to criticise the poor lad based on one minor misjudgement.
And the whole defensive wall focus which seems to be the latest fad, while those who went to the Tranmere game will have seen Cresswell score an almost identical free-kick to Sandell's and who was in goal that day? I'll give you a clue: It wasn't many people's current scapegoat.
One last school of thought, why do we keep giving away free-kicks in ultra dangerous positions? Is that the keepers fault aswell?
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Post by poolieshrew on Sept 26, 2010 20:40:49 GMT 1
When Neal slightly misplaced the wall vs Northampton, some people who must have an agenda, ignored the fact that he dominated the box, claimed every catch and generally bossed the defence excellently, an instead decided to criticise the poor lad based on one minor misjudgement. And the whole defensive wall focus which seems to be the latest fad, while those who went to the Tranmere game will have seen Cresswell score an almost identical free-kick to Sandell's and who was in goal that day? I'll give you a clue: It wasn't many people's current scapegoat. One last school of thought, why do we keep giving away free-kicks in ultra dangerous positions? Is that the keepers fault aswell? . Pretty much spot on the conceding of silly freekicks is obviously annoying GT far more than one individual mistake by our goalkeeper. Probably not up to level of Button/ Daniels we have been accustomed to over the last 2 years however this constant knocking of Neale is not doing anyone any favours and is not justified, the guys been steady away barring saturdays error. Facts are we have 3 goalkeepers on the books and i cant see us using up any of the budget to bring in a 4th barring injury. Get behind the ones we have starting before the game on Tues.
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Post by Jonah on Sept 26, 2010 21:04:55 GMT 1
Martin I am having an Ed moment but you are guilty of talking sh""e mate Tell me a keeper that would have saved the free kick? The second yes but we should have had the game won by then. To early in the Season to be having a go at players Carry on and you will become a shrewEd
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on Sept 26, 2010 21:27:01 GMT 1
Alright Jonah
If you think Neal should be given another chance then fair enough but I would suggest we shouldn't suffer fools glady like we did back in 2002/3 with Cartwright/Dunbavin combo. Two keepers capable of making great saves but would consistently make stupid errors costing us dearly.
If GT sticks with him for tuesday then so be it but I hope he goes with his instinctive no1 and go back to Smith. Smith as yet has not made any costly mistakes.
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Post by ferkle94 on Sept 26, 2010 21:33:38 GMT 1
Lets put something straight...
Ben Smith - 2 and a bit games - conceded 4 goals Chris Neal - 8 and a bit games - conceded 9 goals
I know who i prefer...
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on Sept 26, 2010 21:40:59 GMT 1
As i've said it depends on how those goals were conceded. I think in Smiths case they were defensive blunders more than his own. Neal has shown frailities that maybe Smith does not have. In terms of a season where promotion seems very likley we don't want to take any chances.
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Post by blazey on Sept 26, 2010 21:42:58 GMT 1
Neal is a good keeper. The more games he gets, the more his confidence grows. The lad has come a long way since his howler of a performance against Morecambe in May, and I hope GT sticks with him.
Haven't been too impressed by what we've seen of Smith so far TBH
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Post by theyesman on Sept 26, 2010 21:50:43 GMT 1
Fact is we have two very mediocre keepers, we're stuck with what we have, get used to it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2010 22:33:35 GMT 1
When all said and done Neal inspires no more confidence than Garner did. Capable of some excellence but the disaster is just around the corner.
I think too many people are believing Ronnie Moore's summation of his performance against Rotherham. World class saves---I hardly think so.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 27, 2010 8:10:53 GMT 1
I can only go on the seeing the goals but I really only think he made an error the once and that were yesterday. I thought the free kick against Northampton was just a very good free kick which many a keeper would have struggled to keep out.. Anyhows, we beat Northampton so that didnt drop us any points.
He could do nothing for the first Wycombe goal yesterday, peach of a free kick. Granted it was an error yesterday for the second and it was points dropped but the vast majority of keepers make a mistake every now and then...just one of those things. Lets look to the positives...
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 8:51:19 GMT 1
I can only go on the seeing the goals but I really only think he made an error the once and that were yesterday. I thought the free kick against Northampton was just a very good free kick which many a keeper would have struggled to keep out.. Anyhows, we beat Northampton so that didnt drop us any points. He could do nothing for the first Wycombe goal yesterday, peach of a free kick. Granted it was an error yesterday for the second and it was points dropped but the vast majority of keepers make a mistake every now and then...just one of those things. Lets look to the positives... Sorry but you are so wrong about the Northampton free kick.He was glued to his post.All Thornton had to do was clear the wall and he had half the goal to hit.It was a major mistake and COULD of cost us 3 points.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 27, 2010 9:13:28 GMT 1
But didnt cost us anything...and ''all Thornton had to do was clear the wall and he had half the goal to hit'...isnt that easy to do. He still had to get it over or around the wall and from what I recall it was right into the corner, it didn't go in centre of the goal. I always thought you set the wall up to protect part of the goal and you covered the rest? Making sure you have a clear sight of the ball...
If it had gone in centre of the goal I can maybe understand why folk would be so unhappy about it but it was a very good free kick right into the left hand side of the goal wasn't it, right into the corner? And not only that but it was travelling too, it was hit a fair bit...
Just think its a tad harsh to have a pop at him for that...
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 9:31:07 GMT 1
No it was not right im the corner it did not have to be.It was a mistake end of.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 27, 2010 9:35:02 GMT 1
No it was not right im the corner it did not have to be.It was a mistake end of. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Maybe it were the angle of the TV or my eyes are playing up but it looked pretty much into the corner to me... I don't think too many keepers would have got to that and so I put no blame on Neal...just credit to the Northampton lad for a good hit...
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 9:49:33 GMT 1
Maybe it might of still been a goal but he should not of been stood on the post for a free kick like he was.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 10:41:58 GMT 1
Come on Heavenly, you clearly have it in for the bloke. I mean the other week you were criticising him for diving the wrong way for a penalty at Gillingham FFS
He is a fairly inexperienced keeper and one who will make mistakes, thats the nature of the game. Show me a keeper who hasnt? For all the talk of how wonderful the likes of Button & Daniels were (and they were), there was times when people crticised them as well.
In my opinion his biggest technical problems Ive seen are commaning the area and organising walls for free kicks (and then his subsequent standing for the free kicks). However hopefully he and other people recognise this and will be working on it. If over time it doesnt improve then yes we may need to look to bring someone else in.
My worry now is the lad is stuck in a vicious circle where the first sign of something going wrong for him, plenty of people will be shouting and hurling abuse at him, the more threads like this, the worse it will be. And Ive played in goal so know that its very much a confidence thing and once you know people are on your back, the worse it gets.
Oh and for the clamour to bring in Smith, in the few games Ive seen him, he's less commanding in his box than Neal, plus wasnt there a lot of questions asked about him after the Charlton goals?
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Post by stockportershrew on Sept 27, 2010 10:54:30 GMT 1
Heavenly - it wouldn't have mattered where he stood for the free kick - no keeper on the planet would have saved that.
As for the second one - not good but how much time and space did the bloke have? Why are nearly all our team about 8 yards from the goal?
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 11:08:02 GMT 1
Come on Heavenly, you clearly have it in for the bloke. I mean the other week you were criticising him for diving the wrong way for a penalty at Gillingham FFS He is a fairly inexperienced keeper and one who will make mistakes, thats the nature of the game. Show me a keeper who hasnt? For all the talk of how wonderful the likes of Button & Daniels were (and they were), there was times when people crticised them as well. In my opinion his biggest technical problems Ive seen are commaning the area and organising walls for free kicks (and then his subsequent standing for the free kicks). However hopefully he and other people recognise this and will be working on it. If over time it doesnt improve then yes we may need to look to bring someone else in. My worry now is the lad is stuck in a vicious circle where the first sign of something going wrong for him, plenty of people will be shouting and hurling abuse at him, the more threads like this, the worse it will be. And Ive played in goal so know that its very much a confidence thing and once you know people are on your back, the worse it gets. Oh and for the clamour to bring in Smith, in the few games Ive seen him, he's less commanding in his box than Neal, plus wasnt there a lot of questions asked about him after the Charlton goals? We need a keeper of the standard of Button or Daniels if we are looking for promotion. Those 2 points dropped at the weekend could of already see us miss out on a top 3 spot at the end of the season.We cant afford any more errors.I hope GT will bring in someone else this week. GT said at the fans forum that he wont think twice about bringing in someone else if it improves the team and i hope he does soon.
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Post by Slackbladder on Sept 27, 2010 13:44:33 GMT 1
I cannot believe that people are blaming Chris Neal for the two freekick goals we have conceded in the last two matches. No keeper would have saved Sandell's on Saturday, not even if he had taken up a position a couple of yards in from his right hand post. Can we not give credit for an absolutely first class strike? Gary Waddock was able to do so and also commented on the fact that we kept adding to the wall butit was to no avail because of the quality from Sandell. If you want a scapegoat than blame the player who gave away the free-kick on the edge of the box (Disley) as the challenge was poor and unnecessary. I was as disappointed as anyone on Saturday but I guarantee that every single outfield player on the pitch made more mistakes than CN during the course of the match.
A question for Martin at what level did you play or coach as a keeper, I'm thinking Championship or above given your level of "knowledege and expertise" of the craft.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 14:14:39 GMT 1
I was not blaming Neal for the freekick on saturday but he was at fault for the freekick in the game vs Northampton.
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Post by ambergambler on Sept 27, 2010 14:22:42 GMT 1
Maybe it might of still been a goal but he should not of been stood on the post for a free kick like he was. The second goal for wycombe was a slight deflection also........He had no chance with the freekick.imo.
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Post by camdenshrew on Sept 27, 2010 15:24:30 GMT 1
Nobody would have stopped the first goal but he was at fault for the second. There was a slight deflection but it shouldn't have been enough to beat him. He did not get his body in line with the ball and spilled it. It was a shame because he had looked secure up until then.
It would be a sign of panic to drop him, even though the mistake cost us the full three points.
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Post by Slackbladder on Sept 27, 2010 16:11:45 GMT 1
Nobody would have stopped the first goal but he was at fault for the second. There was a slight deflection but it shouldn't have been enough to beat him. He did not get his body in line with the ball and spilled it. It was a shame because he had looked secure up until then. It would be a sign of panic to drop him, even though the mistake cost us the full three points. I agree with nearly everything in this post - being picky I would say that a number of individual errors leading up to the second goal cost us all three points - we gave away a needless freekick, we did not defend the first ball properly and we certainly didn't close down Montrose until it was too late and then there was a desparate lunge in front of his shot which contributed to it going past CN. Chris will be as disappointed as anyone that it flew past him as he made the wrong decision in how he was going to keep it out. However, no-one (me included) has identified the others who were culpable in the concession of this goal because the main thing we remember is the final mistake. Who'd be a keeper?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 16:46:07 GMT 1
I'd still go for Neal over Smith, personally i think if he gets dropped he'll be mentally shot for the season,
Smith hasn't exactly lit up my world as far as STFC goalkeepers go, perhaps thats being a bit harsh, if we had a more able back up I may be more inclinced for a change,
Neal impressed me against Rotherham greatly, its also right Feddo Knasher that certain players are scapegoated on here, I suspect Neal will be subjected to this more, because, 1. being a goalkeeper, 2. being a Simpson signing and 3. being out injuried for most of last season
I think Turner's decision on this one will be interesting as it will see whether he favours his or the previous regime players.
I thought it was a bit harsh bringing Jake Robinson into all of this,
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Post by Jemmo on Sept 27, 2010 17:39:52 GMT 1
Thanks for the response to my post Samtheshrew, Always good to get backed up on such a crazy post....
Heavenly Shrew I think you have clearly been watching different games to alot of people. 1 or 2 decent performances is complete rubbish. Like Sam said, I take it your a goalkeeper or used to be a goalkeeper and have never been at fault for anything.
Personally I am a very proud Shrewsbury Town supporter and will carry on backing the lads through thick and thin unlike yourself who clearly thinks you can do a better job than Graham Turner who has been nothing shorter than amazing so far this season.
I can now see why your Karma on here is so low, clearly alot of people agree with your comments..... Get behind the team not against them please !!
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 17:52:58 GMT 1
Thanks for the response to my post Samtheshrew, Always good to get backed up on such a crazy post.... Heavenly Shrew I think you have clearly been watching different games to alot of people. 1 or 2 decent performances is complete rubbish. Like Sam said, I take it your a goalkeeper or used to be a goalkeeper and have never been at fault for anything. Personally I am a very proud Shrewsbury Town supporter and will carry on backing the lads through thick and thin unlike yourself who clearly thinks you can do a better job than Graham Turner who has been nothing shorter than amazing so far this season. I can now see why your Karma on here is so low, clearly alot of people agree with your comments..... Get behind the team not against them please !! I do get behind the team thanks very much.So ok Neal is the best keeper in the world and he has not put a foot wrong has he I am sure he will follow in the footsteps of Joe Hart no doubt and all will end up smelling of roses. Well we will see how much longer Neal last as GT said he will bring people in if he thinks he can make the team better and i bet you £10 right now by the end of october Neal will not be towns number 1 keeper. I hope you are up for this bet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 18:16:07 GMT 1
People seem to forget Joe Hart's howler vs. Morecambe when young and inexperienced.
Keeper's make mistakes, they learn from them, they improve.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 27, 2010 18:17:29 GMT 1
being picky I would say that a number of individual errors leading up to the second goal cost us all three points - we gave away a needless freekick, we did not defend the first ball properly and we certainly didn't close down Montrose until it was too late and then there was a desparate lunge in front of his shot which contributed to it going past CN. Chris will be as disappointed as anyone that it flew past him as he made the wrong decision in how he was going to keep it out. However, no-one (me included) has identified the others who were culpable in the concession of this goal because the main thing we remember is the final mistake. Who'd be a keeper? I don't think you're being picky, I think you're identifying where the real fault lay. I wasn't there but I hear the free kick was unnecessary and the pictures show us defending far too deeply, leaving Montrose too much time to get the shot in. Once that happened, we were at risk - a great shot, a deflection, a handball, a rebound or, as happened, a keeper's error. Put all the blame on Neal and it'll happen again. The real weakness was the defensive organisation and discipline. That's a team issue.
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Post by Shrewed on Sept 27, 2010 18:21:15 GMT 1
Chris Neal has nothing to worry about, based on Heavenly's derogatory comments about players in previous seasons. They are all playing at a higher level than the Town now. Just hope the Chris is playing in the Championship next season.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Sept 27, 2010 18:26:56 GMT 1
Chris Neal has nothing to worry about, based on Heavenly's derogatory comments about players in previous seasons. They are all playing at a higher level than the Town now. Just hope the Chris is playing in the Championship next season. I hope he is too atleast he wont be here. You didnt answer the questions yesterday Ed.Any chance you can scroll down and answer please.
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