Labours six promises

[zenfootball2]

Deliver economic stability
Cut NHS waiting times
Launch new border command
Set up great British energy
Crack down on anti social behaviour
Recruit 6,500 new teachers.
What do people think.

[rob62]

Promises are easy, where is the money coming from.
Non Dons can't pay for everything

I want some integrity and honesty

[Deleted]

May 22, 2024 17:55:59 GMT 1 rob62 said:

Promises are easy, where is the money coming from.
Non Dons can't pay for everything

I want some integrity and honesty

Well don't vote Tory then.

If Amazon sell to a customer in this country they should pay tax in this country. If Starbucks sell a coffee in this country they should pay tax in this country. If they don't like it tough. It's not like they are going stop doing business here if we charge them a fair price for doing that business. As people keep reminding us this the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world. Those companies that do business here should be paying taxes here.

Non-doms are an issue though, especially when the lions share of the printed press in the UK is owned by the very people that fit into that category and invariably tell their readership to vote Tory.

[zenfootball2]

I vote Labour but one issue I have with starmer is the number of policy's that he he said labour would bring in to only a short time later to drop.
However saying that I'm struggling to think of any conservative policies they actually kept.
One thing for sure by any measure apart the wealthy minority everyone else is worse off under the conservative . The country feels like we have come full circle and the country is back to the 70s only worse.

br]We had a large number of labour doorknockers a few weeks back I said I would vote Labour and I don't know if everyone got one but received a letter from the labour candidate expanding on the 6 points in more detail.

[armchairfan]

It will surprise noone on here when I say that I shall be voting for the Conservative & Unionist Party's candidate; not because I think he is a good MP, and not because I believe the government has done a good job, but because is no way on earth that I could possibly support a party with socialist leanings - the fringe Labour Left will naturally say that Labour isn't socialist, of course.

The pursuit of socialism - how wonderful a goal the misguided think it to be - is the pursuit of a nightmare.....
In addition, the unholy alliance between the woke left and the authoritarian anti-West parts of the world, will probably cause any future Labour government to collapse in upon itself, leading to an early further GE - a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!

Blue touch-paler duly lit....lol

[wookeywombat]

"a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!"

Hardly any party in history has created more of the above than the Conservative party since 2015.

[zenfootball2]

I know a number of conservative voters, non of them will be voting for them this time,
The main reason they say.
The mess they have made of things and the blatant corruption
Most said they will not vote.

[armchairfan]

May 23, 2024 19:26:45 GMT 1 wookeywombat said:

"a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!"

Hardly any party in history has created more of the above than the Conservative party since 2015.

Since 2015, the Left, in general, has identified itself with the most divisive, socially corrosive and authoritarian fads of the time: "critical race theory" religeous extremism, gender theory and pervasive wokeness, all of which is anti "Western" democratic systems
Your opinion, of course, and it doesn't quite explain the resilience of the Conservative Party and the numerous elections of Conservative governments over the last 150 years, does it?
The Conservative Party has overwhelmingly been the party of Government since universal suffrage became the norm (1830s?), so there must be something in the British psyche which explains this phenomenon; that Conservative governments have not always been successful cannot be denied, and yet the Party survives to govern, despite frequent predictions of its demise.
Who knows, the Opposition may get its wish this time, which prospect fills me with dread, horror and a fear for the future of our wonderful country - perhaps luckily, I won't be around to witness it

[Deleted]

I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.

14 years of Conservative led government have given us:

Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.

Public sector cuts / pay stagnation

Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits

Increase childcare costs

Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches

Attacks on humans rights

Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.

Cronyism

Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010

Putting friends in the house of Lord's

2nd jobs

Climate change denial

Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways

Poo in drinking water

NHS waiting lists

Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity

Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.

Donations / Lobbying

Increase in crime due to reduced police

Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates

Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*

Tory corruption / sleaze

Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies

Chris Pincher - Sexual assault

Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons

Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules

David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules

Party gate - they partied why others people died alone

Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair

£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.

The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.

David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault

Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse

Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables

Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying

Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault

Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying

Priti Patel and allegations of bullying

Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status

Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.

Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being

Covid PPE deals to Tory peers

Matt Hancock's lockdown affair

Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.

William Wragg - Honeytrap

Lee Anderson - Racist

Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules

Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence

Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.

Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct

Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.

Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.

It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.

If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?

* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.

[armchairfan]

May 24, 2024 6:21:19 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.

14 years of Conservative led government have given us:

Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.

Public sector cuts / pay stagnation

Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits

Increase childcare costs

Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches

Attacks on humans rights

Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.

Cronyism

Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010

Putting friends in the house of Lord's

2nd jobs

Climate change denial

Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways

Poo in drinking water

NHS waiting lists

Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity

Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.

Donations / Lobbying

Increase in crime due to reduced police

Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates

Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*

Tory corruption / sleaze

Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies

Chris Pincher - Sexual assault

Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons

Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules

David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules

Party gate - they partied why others people died alone

Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair

£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.

The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.

David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault

Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse

Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables

Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying

Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault

Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying

Priti Patel and allegations of bullying

Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status

Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.

Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being

Covid PPE deals to Tory peers

Matt Hancock's lockdown affair

Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.

William Wragg - Honeytrap

Lee Anderson - Racist

Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules

Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence

Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.

Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct

Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.

Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.

It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.

If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?

* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.

Good morning, Neil - you HAVE been doing your homework, haven't you, all provided by Labour NEC, or entirely your own work?

Whatever, to varying degrees, of course, much of what you highlight is not disputed, and, as a local politician yourself, I have no doubt that you are aware of the anger within the Conservative Party over many of these failings.
However, what you are referring to is "politics", pure and simple, whereas my argument is based upon what political PHILOSOPHY in my judgement, best suits the country, or, probably,the human race as a whole.

I am not sure whether "soshulism" (whatever THAT is) is something about which I would scream: I tend not to scream at anything or anyone - I try to rely upon the good sense of people to realise that the easy way - the SOCIALIST way - is not necessarily the BEST way of organising human interactions; if that is not accepted by some then I remain firmly of the view that they have not given the matter enough thought, and are misguided and ill-informed.

I do recognise the definition of "woke", of course, and, on reflection, it was foolish of me to fall into that trap, because, taken at face value, that definition, is reasonable and accurate; we both know, however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme.

Taking the definition at face value, I too could accept the suggestion of being "woke" but I will not accept the insidious and dangerous baggage which accompanies it.

Of course, I cannot dispute,in any meaningful way, the failings which you have assiduously detailed, for one thing due to the fact that we are all human and therefore prone to such errors, but it's Life, and any belief in the need to seek a error-free system is irrational, unscientific and leading to disaster for humanity.

Anyway, Neil, it's is always good to debate these issues with you, even though we will never agree, because honest debate is one of the ways we can avoid catastrophe!

By the way, I assure you that I am human, and will gladly buy you a pint and sit down with you for a natter.

[Valerioch]

If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader...

Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough

[sheltonsalopian]

May 24, 2024 9:26:03 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader...

Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough

Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it?

[armchairfan]

May 24, 2024 10:47:51 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

May 24, 2024 9:26:03 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader...

Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough

Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it?

Possibly so, but the more telling criticism and allegations against Sir Keir come from the hard Left within his own Party, specifically, Messrs Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon and not forgetting Ms Abbott....

[sheltonsalopian]

May 24, 2024 11:00:24 GMT 1 armchairfan said:

May 24, 2024 10:47:51 GMT 1 sheltonsalopian said:

Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it?

Possibly so, but the more telling criticism and allegations against Sir Keir come from the hard Left within his own Party, specifically, Messrs Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon and not forgetting Ms Abbott....

Not disagreeing in the slightest with you, being a Labour voter myself it's always the left that try their best to persuade me to vote elsewhere.

[Deleted]

May 24, 2024 9:22:55 GMT 1 armchairfan said:

May 24, 2024 6:21:19 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.

14 years of Conservative led government have given us:

Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.

Public sector cuts / pay stagnation

Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits

Increase childcare costs

Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches

Attacks on humans rights

Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.

Cronyism

Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010

Putting friends in the house of Lord's

2nd jobs

Climate change denial

Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways

Poo in drinking water

NHS waiting lists

Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity

Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.

Donations / Lobbying

Increase in crime due to reduced police

Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates

Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*

Tory corruption / sleaze

Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies

Chris Pincher - Sexual assault

Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons

Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules

David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules

Party gate - they partied why others people died alone

Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair

£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.

The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.

David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault

Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse

Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables

Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying

Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault

Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying

Priti Patel and allegations of bullying

Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status

Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.

Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being

Covid PPE deals to Tory peers

Matt Hancock's lockdown affair

Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.

William Wragg - Honeytrap

Lee Anderson - Racist

Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules

Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence

Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.

Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct

Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.

Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.

It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.

If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?

* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.

Good morning, Neil - you HAVE been doing your homework, haven't you, all provided by Labour NEC, or entirely your own work?

Whatever, to varying degrees, of course, much of what you highlight is not disputed, and, as a local politician yourself, I have no doubt that you are aware of the anger within the Conservative Party over many of these failings.
However, what you are referring to is "politics", pure and simple, whereas my argument is based upon what political PHILOSOPHY in my judgement, best suits the country, or, probably,the human race as a whole.

I am not sure whether "soshulism" (whatever THAT is) is something about which I would scream: I tend not to scream at anything or anyone - I try to rely upon the good sense of people to realise that the easy way - the SOCIALIST way - is not necessarily the BEST way of organising human interactions; if that is not accepted by some then I remain firmly of the view that they have not given the matter enough thought, and are misguided and ill-informed.

I do recognise the definition of "woke", of course, and, on reflection, it was foolish of me to fall into that trap, because, taken at face value, that definition, is reasonable and accurate; we both know, however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme.

Taking the definition at face value, I too could accept the suggestion of being "woke" but I will not accept the insidious and dangerous baggage which accompanies it.

Of course, I cannot dispute,in any meaningful way, the failings which you have assiduously detailed, for one thing due to the fact that we are all human and therefore prone to such errors, but it's Life, and any belief in the need to seek a error-free system is irrational, unscientific and leading to disaster for humanity.

Anyway, Neil, it's is always good to debate these issues with you, even though we will never agree, because honest debate is one of the ways we can avoid catastrophe!

By the way, I assure you that I am human, and will gladly buy you a pint and sit down with you for a natter.

Actually stolen from another forum I frequent.

The Rwanda thing is likely to be among the most expensive pieces of legislation in modern times. There was one person who actually volunteered to go and none have been forcibly removed. That single (voluntary) removal has cost the country the best part of half a billion quid. Makes the Michelle Mone saga seem prudent.