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Post by zenfootball2 on May 22, 2024 9:08:59 GMT 1
Deliver economic stability
Cut NHS waiting times
Launch new border command
Set up great British energy
Crack down on anti social behaviour
Recruit 6,500 new teachers.
What do people think.
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rob62
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Post by rob62 on May 22, 2024 17:55:59 GMT 1
Promises are easy, where is the money coming from.
Non Dons can't pay for everything
I want some integrity and honesty
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2024 7:07:58 GMT 1
Promises are easy, where is the money coming from. Non Dons can't pay for everything I want some integrity and honesty Well don't vote Tory then.
If Amazon sell to a customer in this country they should pay tax in this country. If Starbucks sell a coffee in this country they should pay tax in this country. If they don't like it tough. It's not like they are going stop doing business here if we charge them a fair price for doing that business. As people keep reminding us this the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world. Those companies that do business here should be paying taxes here.
Non-doms are an issue though, especially when the lions share of the printed press in the UK is owned by the very people that fit into that category and invariably tell their readership to vote Tory.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 23, 2024 8:33:25 GMT 1
I vote Labour but one issue I have with starmer is the number of policy's that he he said labour would bring in to only a short time later to drop.
However saying that I'm struggling to think of any conservative policies they actually kept.
One thing for sure by any measure apart the wealthy minority everyone else is worse off under the conservative . The country feels like we have come full circle and the country is back to the 70s only worse.
br]We had a large number of labour doorknockers a few weeks back I said I would vote Labour and I don't know if everyone got one but received a letter from the labour candidate expanding on the 6 points in more detail.
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Post by armchairfan on May 23, 2024 17:54:49 GMT 1
It will surprise noone on here when I say that I shall be voting for the Conservative & Unionist Party's candidate; not because I think he is a good MP, and not because I believe the government has done a good job, but because is no way on earth that I could possibly support a party with socialist leanings - the fringe Labour Left will naturally say that Labour isn't socialist, of course.
The pursuit of socialism - how wonderful a goal the misguided think it to be - is the pursuit of a nightmare.....
In addition, the unholy alliance between the woke left and the authoritarian anti-West parts of the world, will probably cause any future Labour government to collapse in upon itself, leading to an early further GE - a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!
Blue touch-paler duly lit....lol
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Post by wookeywombat on May 23, 2024 19:26:45 GMT 1
"a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!"
Hardly any party in history has created more of the above than the Conservative party since 2015.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 23, 2024 20:13:12 GMT 1
I know a number of conservative voters, non of them will be voting for them this time,
The main reason they say.
The mess they have made of things and the blatant corruption
Most said they will not vote.
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Post by armchairfan on May 23, 2024 21:19:22 GMT 1
"a recipe for division and resentment. No thank you very much!" Hardly any party in history has created more of the above than the Conservative party since 2015. Since 2015, the Left, in general, has identified itself with the most divisive, socially corrosive and authoritarian fads of the time: "critical race theory" religeous extremism, gender theory and pervasive wokeness, all of which is anti "Western" democratic systems Your opinion, of course, and it doesn't quite explain the resilience of the Conservative Party and the numerous elections of Conservative governments over the last 150 years, does it? The Conservative Party has overwhelmingly been the party of Government since universal suffrage became the norm (1830s?), so there must be something in the British psyche which explains this phenomenon; that Conservative governments have not always been successful cannot be denied, and yet the Party survives to govern, despite frequent predictions of its demise. Who knows, the Opposition may get its wish this time, which prospect fills me with dread, horror and a fear for the future of our wonderful country - perhaps luckily, I won't be around to witness it |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 6:21:19 GMT 1
I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.
14 years of Conservative led government have given us:
Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.
Public sector cuts / pay stagnation
Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits
Increase childcare costs
Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches
Attacks on humans rights
Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.
Cronyism
Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010
Putting friends in the house of Lord's
2nd jobs
Climate change denial
Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways
Poo in drinking water
NHS waiting lists
Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity
Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.
Donations / Lobbying
Increase in crime due to reduced police
Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates
Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*
Tory corruption / sleaze
Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies
Chris Pincher - Sexual assault
Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons
Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules
David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules
Party gate - they partied why others people died alone
Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair
£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.
The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.
David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault
Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse
Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables
Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying
Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault
Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying
Priti Patel and allegations of bullying
Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status
Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.
Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being
Covid PPE deals to Tory peers
Matt Hancock's lockdown affair
Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.
William Wragg - Honeytrap
Lee Anderson - Racist
Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules
Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence
Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.
Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct
Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.
Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.
It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.
If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?
* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.
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Post by armchairfan on May 24, 2024 9:22:55 GMT 1
I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.
14 years of Conservative led government have given us:
Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.
Public sector cuts / pay stagnation
Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits
Increase childcare costs
Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches
Attacks on humans rights
Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.
Cronyism
Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010
Putting friends in the house of Lord's
2nd jobs
Climate change denial
Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways
Poo in drinking water
NHS waiting lists
Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity
Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.
Donations / Lobbying
Increase in crime due to reduced police
Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates
Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*
Tory corruption / sleaze
Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies
Chris Pincher - Sexual assault
Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons
Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules
David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules
Party gate - they partied why others people died alone
Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair
£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.
The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.
David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault
Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse
Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables
Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying
Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault
Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying
Priti Patel and allegations of bullying
Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status
Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.
Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being
Covid PPE deals to Tory peers
Matt Hancock's lockdown affair
Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.
William Wragg - Honeytrap
Lee Anderson - Racist
Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules
Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence
Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.
Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct
Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.
Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.
It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.
If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?
* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.
Good morning, Neil - you HAVE been doing your homework, haven't you, all provided by Labour NEC, or entirely your own work? Whatever, to varying degrees, of course, much of what you highlight is not disputed, and, as a local politician yourself, I have no doubt that you are aware of the anger within the Conservative Party over many of these failings. However, what you are referring to is "politics", pure and simple, whereas my argument is based upon what political PHILOSOPHY in my judgement, best suits the country, or, probably,the human race as a whole. I am not sure whether "soshulism" (whatever THAT is) is something about which I would scream: I tend not to scream at anything or anyone - I try to rely upon the good sense of people to realise that the easy way - the SOCIALIST way - is not necessarily the BEST way of organising human interactions; if that is not accepted by some then I remain firmly of the view that they have not given the matter enough thought, and are misguided and ill-informed. I do recognise the definition of "woke", of course, and, on reflection, it was foolish of me to fall into that trap, because, taken at face value, that definition, is reasonable and accurate; we both know, however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme. Taking the definition at face value, I too could accept the suggestion of being "woke" but I will not accept the insidious and dangerous baggage which accompanies it. Of course, I cannot dispute,in any meaningful way, the failings which you have assiduously detailed, for one thing due to the fact that we are all human and therefore prone to such errors, but it's Life, and any belief in the need to seek a error-free system is irrational, unscientific and leading to disaster for humanity. Anyway, Neil, it's is always good to debate these issues with you, even though we will never agree, because honest debate is one of the ways we can avoid catastrophe! By the way, I assure you that I am human, and will gladly buy you a pint and sit down with you for a natter. |
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Post by Valerioch on May 24, 2024 9:26:03 GMT 1
If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader...
Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough
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Post by sheltonsalopian on May 24, 2024 10:47:51 GMT 1
If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader... Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it? |
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Post by armchairfan on May 24, 2024 11:00:24 GMT 1
If I was sad enough i'm sure I could go through a list of Labour MP's and find similar facts (or in most cases unfounded allegations). Starting with their Leader and Deputy Leader... Also, a lot of your top half is subjective too and pure opinion, for example just because you don't like Brexit or the Rwanda bill, doesn't mean millions of others don't, in my case, I don't like the Rwanda bill as I don't think it's an effective deterrent/strong enough Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it? Possibly so, but the more telling criticism and allegations against Sir Keir come from the hard Left within his own Party, specifically, Messrs Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon and not forgetting Ms Abbott.... |
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Post by sheltonsalopian on May 24, 2024 11:24:01 GMT 1
Think the worst allegation that the Tories have been able to dig up on Starmer was when he had a curry wasn't it? Possibly so, but the more telling criticism and allegations against Sir Keir come from the hard Left within his own Party, specifically, Messrs Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon and not forgetting Ms Abbott.... Not disagreeing in the slightest with you, being a Labour voter myself it's always the left that try their best to persuade me to vote elsewhere. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 12:02:39 GMT 1
I have yet to see any compelling reason for a floating voter or undecided to stick with the Conservative party for another 5 years. Perhaps Armchair could help out. Preferably without resorting to screaming ''but soshulism''.
14 years of Conservative led government have given us:
Brexit - Built on lies and maintained on lies. A disaster for this country. Ask any business who have more paperwork despite being sold the opposite.
Public sector cuts / pay stagnation
Fuel bills / cost of living - why no windfall tax like our European neighbours yet record profits
Increase childcare costs
Immigration - Dehumanisng language aimed at the world's most vulnerable people. Rawanda policy is a disgrace. Ensuring no safe and legal routes means more bodies washed up on our beaches
Attacks on humans rights
Attack on democracy - ID voting, wanting to restrict unions powers, laws on protests.
Cronyism
Visible Increase in homelessness since 2010
Putting friends in the house of Lord's
2nd jobs
Climate change denial
Literally voting for sewage to be pumped into the waterways
Poo in drinking water
NHS waiting lists
Bodies literally rotting in NHS hospital due to lack of morgue capacity
Increase in local housing but no new schools etc.
Donations / Lobbying
Increase in crime due to reduced police
Liz Truss and the impact on the economy and interest rates
Culture war nonsense aka using the word woke*
Tory corruption / sleaze
Boris Johnson's clear and obvious lies
Chris Pincher - Sexual assault
Tractor gate - MP watches porn in the commons
Owen Patterson - Broke Lobbying rules
David Cameron and Greenshill capital. Broke Lobbying rules
Party gate - they partied why others people died alone
Boris Johnson's loan from the BBC chair
£840 wallpaper in Downing Street flat.
The peerage of Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and a former KGB officer, was nominated for a life peerage by Boris Johnson.
David Warburton MP cocaine use and sexual assault
Boris Johnson's £150,000 treehouse
Nadhim Zahawi's tax affairs and heating for his stables
Gavin Williamson and allegations of bullying
Imran Ahmad Khan's conviction for sexual assault
Dominic Raab and allegations of bullying
Priti Patel and allegations of bullying
Rishi Sunak's wife non-domicile status
Boris Johnson's resignation honours list
In his resignation honours list, Boris Johnson included the former editor of the Daily Mail, Paul Dacre, on his list despite the fact that Dacre had been blocked by the House of Lords Appointment Commission on a previous list.
Suella Braverman and her use of personal emails and being an all round terrible human being
Covid PPE deals to Tory peers
Matt Hancock's lockdown affair
Mark Menzies using political donations to pay off “bad people”.
William Wragg - Honeytrap
Lee Anderson - Racist
Scott Benton breaking lobbying rules
Bob Stewart - Racially aggravated public order offence
Crispin Blunt - Allegations of rape.
Peter Bone - allegation of bullying and sexual misconduct
Andrew Bridgen - Conspiracy theorist.
Charlie Elphicke - convicted on 3 counts of sexual assault.
It's amazing I've not found a space for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or Kwasai Kwarteng.
If even 20% of the above bothers you to any extent how can you honestly justify voting Conservative? If nothing on this list bothers you are you even human?
* Woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues. It's not the slur that some people seem to think it is. I have a racially and sexually diverse family and I am acutely aware of some of the issues that they face on a daily basis and if standing up to bigots makes me 'woke' then I will wear that badge with pride.
Good morning, Neil - you HAVE been doing your homework, haven't you, all provided by Labour NEC, or entirely your own work? Whatever, to varying degrees, of course, much of what you highlight is not disputed, and, as a local politician yourself, I have no doubt that you are aware of the anger within the Conservative Party over many of these failings. However, what you are referring to is "politics", pure and simple, whereas my argument is based upon what political PHILOSOPHY in my judgement, best suits the country, or, probably,the human race as a whole. I am not sure whether "soshulism" (whatever THAT is) is something about which I would scream: I tend not to scream at anything or anyone - I try to rely upon the good sense of people to realise that the easy way - the SOCIALIST way - is not necessarily the BEST way of organising human interactions; if that is not accepted by some then I remain firmly of the view that they have not given the matter enough thought, and are misguided and ill-informed. I do recognise the definition of "woke", of course, and, on reflection, it was foolish of me to fall into that trap, because, taken at face value, that definition, is reasonable and accurate; we both know, however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme. Taking the definition at face value, I too could accept the suggestion of being "woke" but I will not accept the insidious and dangerous baggage which accompanies it. Of course, I cannot dispute,in any meaningful way, the failings which you have assiduously detailed, for one thing due to the fact that we are all human and therefore prone to such errors, but it's Life, and any belief in the need to seek a error-free system is irrational, unscientific and leading to disaster for humanity. Anyway, Neil, it's is always good to debate these issues with you, even though we will never agree, because honest debate is one of the ways we can avoid catastrophe! By the way, I assure you that I am human, and will gladly buy you a pint and sit down with you for a natter. Actually stolen from another forum I frequent. The Rwanda thing is likely to be among the most expensive pieces of legislation in modern times. There was one person who actually volunteered to go and none have been forcibly removed. That single (voluntary) removal has cost the country the best part of half a billion quid. Makes the Michelle Mone saga seem prudent. |
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Post by armchairfan on May 24, 2024 12:37:39 GMT 1
Good morning, Neil - you HAVE been doing your homework, haven't you, all provided by Labour NEC, or entirely your own work? Whatever, to varying degrees, of course, much of what you highlight is not disputed, and, as a local politician yourself, I have no doubt that you are aware of the anger within the Conservative Party over many of these failings. However, what you are referring to is "politics", pure and simple, whereas my argument is based upon what political PHILOSOPHY in my judgement, best suits the country, or, probably,the human race as a whole. I am not sure whether "soshulism" (whatever THAT is) is something about which I would scream: I tend not to scream at anything or anyone - I try to rely upon the good sense of people to realise that the easy way - the SOCIALIST way - is not necessarily the BEST way of organising human interactions; if that is not accepted by some then I remain firmly of the view that they have not given the matter enough thought, and are misguided and ill-informed. I do recognise the definition of "woke", of course, and, on reflection, it was foolish of me to fall into that trap, because, taken at face value, that definition, is reasonable and accurate; we both know, however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme. Taking the definition at face value, I too could accept the suggestion of being "woke" but I will not accept the insidious and dangerous baggage which accompanies it. Of course, I cannot dispute,in any meaningful way, the failings which you have assiduously detailed, for one thing due to the fact that we are all human and therefore prone to such errors, but it's Life, and any belief in the need to seek a error-free system is irrational, unscientific and leading to disaster for humanity. Anyway, Neil, it's is always good to debate these issues with you, even though we will never agree, because honest debate is one of the ways we can avoid catastrophe! By the way, I assure you that I am human, and will gladly buy you a pint and sit down with you for a natter. Actually stolen from another forum I frequent. The Rwanda thing is likely to be among the most expensive pieces of legislation in modern times. There was one person who actually volunteered to go and none have been forcibly removed. That single (voluntary) removal has cost the country the best part of half a billion quid. Makes the Michelle Mone saga seem prudent. I note your response, but missed the citation with regard to the "other forum" which you frequent; my opinions are entirely my own, not "stolen", not copied nor quoted without attribution; influenced, certainly, by my life experience, and beliefs, and yes, by having the great fortune to live in a free society, blessed with the freedom of speech to have this sort of discussion. As for the Rwanda policy, I confess to feeling not entirely comfortable, but that may be because I am not confident that it will be effective - I find myself in the uncomfortable position of feeling that "something must be done" about illegal immigration, when we both know that having such a stance is not a basis for a sound policy. I do not have a clue as to what would constitute a sound, effective policy: to simply state that a reorganisation of our Border Force will be the solution is disingenuous and simplistic at best. |
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Post by armchairfan on May 24, 2024 12:40:48 GMT 1
Possibly so, but the more telling criticism and allegations against Sir Keir come from the hard Left within his own Party, specifically, Messrs Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon and not forgetting Ms Abbott.... Not disagreeing in the slightest with you, being a Labour voter myself it's always the left that try their best to persuade me to vote elsewhere. I like the cut of your jib....most humorous and honest |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 13:10:45 GMT 1
Actually stolen from another forum I frequent. The Rwanda thing is likely to be among the most expensive pieces of legislation in modern times. There was one person who actually volunteered to go and none have been forcibly removed. That single (voluntary) removal has cost the country the best part of half a billion quid. Makes the Michelle Mone saga seem prudent. I note your response, but missed the citation with regard to the "other forum" which you frequent; my opinions are entirely my own, not "stolen", not copied nor quoted without attribution; influenced, certainly, by my life experience, and beliefs, and yes, by having the great fortune to live in a free society, blessed with the freedom of speech to have this sort of discussion. As for the Rwanda policy, I confess to feeling not entirely comfortable, but that may be because I am not confident that it will be effective - I find myself in the uncomfortable position of feeling that "something must be done" about illegal immigration, when we both know that having such a stance is not a basis for a sound policy. I do not have a clue as to what would constitute a sound, effective policy: to simply state that a reorganisation of our Border Force will be the solution is disingenuous and simplistic at best. Perhaps if the ideological austerity driven agenda of Messers Cameron, Clegg and Osbourne hadn't decimated the UK customs and immigration service in the first place we would have experienced, competent people in place and the backlog would not be where it is now. Just a thought. |
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Post by armchairfan on May 24, 2024 14:58:46 GMT 1
I note your response, but missed the citation with regard to the "other forum" which you frequent; my opinions are entirely my own, not "stolen", not copied nor quoted without attribution; influenced, certainly, by my life experience, and beliefs, and yes, by having the great fortune to live in a free society, blessed with the freedom of speech to have this sort of discussion. As for the Rwanda policy, I confess to feeling not entirely comfortable, but that may be because I am not confident that it will be effective - I find myself in the uncomfortable position of feeling that "something must be done" about illegal immigration, when we both know that having such a stance is not a basis for a sound policy. I do not have a clue as to what would constitute a sound, effective policy: to simply state that a reorganisation of our Border Force will be the solution is disingenuous and simplistic at best. Perhaps if the ideological austerity driven agenda of Messers Cameron, Clegg and Osbourne hadn't decimated the UK customs and immigration service in the first place we would have experienced, competent people in place and the backlog would not be where it is now. Just a thought. Possibly so, but I don't know the actual figures, so will accept your assertion with that caveat. As ever, it's a question of people. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2024 17:15:57 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 25, 2024 9:28:31 GMT 1
however, that the expression has come to embrace, with much evidence, all the excesses which have emerged over the last few years, which I mentioned in my post: "critical race theory", gender ideology, religious extremism and a general anti-white, anti-Western liberal democratic theme. Indeed it has... What does “woke” mean?
Like Doyle says, as you do so yourself, instead of saying and listing all those things we can just say 'woke'.👍 And anyone who has taken time out to watch, for example, Antifa turn up to disrupt, intimidate, abuse and assault women and girls who simply wish to come together to discuss and protect their sex based rights will know exactly what we mean and why “by authoritarian means” is very apt and a necessary addition. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 25, 2024 9:46:27 GMT 1
Deliver economic stability Cut NHS waiting times Launch new border command Set up great British energy Crack down on anti social behaviour Recruit 6,500 new teachers. What do people think. I think its a wait and see. Agree with your comment above regarding Labour and the pledges they have made only to row back on them some time later. So who knows. And whilst I am sure Sunak and the Tories will try and pin him down over the next few weeks to elaborate further and add meat to the bones as it were he is in such a commanding position in the polls I don't think he will see the need to do so. By the by, as my dad always reminds me England have only won the World Cup when Labour have been in government (granted its just the once mind but there you go). So there is that. Hopefully.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2024 12:18:50 GMT 1
As someone has seen fit you bring Antifa into the discussion it's probably time to explain what Antifa actually means, again for those in the cheap seats.
Antifa is a shortened version of anti-fascist. Now the way I see it that's actually a good thing, seeing as the opposite of anti anything is pro that thing or at the very least ambiguous to it. Being pro-fascist is not a particularly good look to be honest and not being bothered about it hasn't got a great history either.
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Post by armchairfan on May 26, 2024 20:28:06 GMT 1
As someone has seen fit you bring Antifa into the discussion it's probably time to explain what Antifa actually means, again for those in the cheap seats. Antifa is a shortened version of anti-fascist. Now the way I see it that's actually a good thing, seeing as the opposite of anti anything is pro that thing or at the very least ambiguous to it. Being pro-fascist is not a particularly good look to be honest and not being bothered about it hasn't got a great history either. The obvious difficulty is that the group referred to as "Antifa" has a tendency to judge ANYONE who disagrees with it to be "fascist"; as one who has been called both a "Nazi" and a fascist - though not on here, I think - that's a tad worrying! |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 22:10:08 GMT 1
As someone has seen fit you bring Antifa into the discussion it's probably time to explain what Antifa actually means, again for those in the cheap seats. Antifa is a shortened version of anti-fascist. Now the way I see it that's actually a good thing, seeing as the opposite of anti anything is pro that thing or at the very least ambiguous to it. Being pro-fascist is not a particularly good look to be honest and not being bothered about it hasn't got a great history either. The obvious difficulty is that the group referred to as "Antifa" has a tendency to judge ANYONE who disagrees with it to be "fascist"; as one who has been called both a "Nazi" and a fascist - though not on here, I think - that's a tad worrying! Ok, I'll keep it simple. Antifa = anti-fascist which I'm sure most people would agree is a good thing in essence.
Fascism, mmm, not such a great story.
I am not suggesting that everyone needs to be 'actively' anti-fascist, but surely it is better than either; a, being a fascist or b, not being bothered either way. Hitler didn't gain power by most Germans being Nazis, Mussolini didn't gain power by most Italians being fascists. They both gained power due to too many people thinking 'ah, what's the worst that can happen?'
Surely everyone should have a default position of being against fascism and in an effort to be even handed they should equally be against communism too. Extremes in politics and religion have historically been and still are the biggest threats to world peace.
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Post by northwestman on May 26, 2024 22:28:39 GMT 1
That long list of Tory failings left out potholes. Concern for hitting one is with me every time I set off in my vehicle!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 27, 2024 8:28:37 GMT 1
The obvious difficulty is that the group referred to as "Antifa" has a tendency to judge ANYONE who disagrees with it to be "fascist"; as one who has been called both a "Nazi" and a fascist - though not on here, I think - that's a tad worrying! Exactly. Its important people understand who we are dealing with here. Here for example, these two women believe that in taking his child to a Let Women Speak event in Brighton this man is "raising a little fascist". I kid you not... This is not normal behavior, the only extremism these two women are exposing is their own. Same here... There is other footage available online for those who care to look. JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock and many more have been labeled fascists for pushing back against a regressive and harmful ideology. The likes of Martina Navratilova and Sharon Davies have been called fascists for simply speaking out against males competing in female sports. That's where we are now (as it seems you know from personal experience). This is not anti fascist (which of course the vast majority of us are) its anti anything we don't happen to like or agree with so we will label it fascist so that we can justify and excuse our own behavior towards anything we don't happen to like or agree with. And I do hope more and more people are realizing that.👍 |
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Post by armchairfan on May 27, 2024 9:15:29 GMT 1
The obvious difficulty is that the group referred to as "Antifa" has a tendency to judge ANYONE who disagrees with it to be "fascist"; as one who has been called both a "Nazi" and a fascist - though not on here, I think - that's a tad worrying! Ok, I'll keep it simple. Antifa = anti-fascist which I'm sure most people would agree is a good thing in essence.
Fascism, mmm, not such a great story.
I am not suggesting that everyone needs to be 'actively' anti-fascist, but surely it is better than either; a, being a fascist or b, not being bothered either way. Hitler didn't gain power by most Germans being Nazis, Mussolini didn't gain power by most Italians being fascists. They both gained power due to too many people thinking 'ah, what's the worst that can happen?'
Surely everyone should have a default position of being against fascism and in an effort to be even handed they should equally be against communism too. Extremes in politics and religion have historically been and still are the biggest threats to world peace.
Come now, Neil - those comments are the very antithesis of keeping it "simple", as you well know: they are a deliberate attempt to conflate and obfuscate two entirely separate matters (one, being against the ideology of fascism, and two, being a supporter of "Antifa" views and activities - these are not dependent upon each other; I know you are not a fascist, but as you say yourself, extremes are the problem, and I don't believe for one moment that you support the Antifa movement for that very reason. Anyway, all this Antifa nonsense is somewhat of an off-thread tangent! |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2024 9:33:21 GMT 1
Ok, I'll keep it simple. Antifa = anti-fascist which I'm sure most people would agree is a good thing in essence.
Fascism, mmm, not such a great story.
I am not suggesting that everyone needs to be 'actively' anti-fascist, but surely it is better than either; a, being a fascist or b, not being bothered either way. Hitler didn't gain power by most Germans being Nazis, Mussolini didn't gain power by most Italians being fascists. They both gained power due to too many people thinking 'ah, what's the worst that can happen?'
Surely everyone should have a default position of being against fascism and in an effort to be even handed they should equally be against communism too. Extremes in politics and religion have historically been and still are the biggest threats to world peace.
Come now, Neil - those comments are the very antithesis of keeping it "simple", as you well know: they are a deliberate attempt to conflate and obfuscate two entirely separate matters (one, being against the ideology of fascism, and two, being a supporter of "Antifa" views and activities - these are not dependent upon each other; I know you are not a fascist, but as you say yourself, extremes are the problem, and I don't believe for one moment that you support the Antifa movement for that very reason. Anyway, all this Antifa nonsense is somewhat of an off-thread tangent! I agree with your last point entirely, but it wasn't me that brought it up, speak to our Germany residing member. I am vehemently anti any sort of extremism, be that political or religious. Fascism and communism are two cheeks of the same 'arris, just like extreme Islam and extreme Christianity and I have no time for any of them. |
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Post by armchairfan on May 27, 2024 9:39:25 GMT 1
Come now, Neil - those comments are the very antithesis of keeping it "simple", as you well know: they are a deliberate attempt to conflate and obfuscate two entirely separate matters (one, being against the ideology of fascism, and two, being a supporter of "Antifa" views and activities - these are not dependent upon each other; I know you are not a fascist, but as you say yourself, extremes are the problem, and I don't believe for one moment that you support the Antifa movement for that very reason. Anyway, all this Antifa nonsense is somewhat of an off-thread tangent! I agree with your last point entirely, but it wasn't me that brought it up, speak to our Germany residing member. I am vehemently anti any sort of extremism, be that political or religious. Fascism and communism are two cheeks of the same 'arris, just like extreme Islam and extreme Christianity and I have no time for any of them. Good grief, Neil - we must be more careful: I detect further evidence of agreement between us! |
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