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Post by kenwood on Nov 14, 2023 7:07:15 GMT 1
Is Therese Coffey staging a sit in at Number 10 or smuggled out of the back door 🤔🙄 No, she’s been flushed down the toilet to join the rest of the s**te in our rivers . |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Nov 14, 2023 7:13:13 GMT 1
Things just won't get fixed. Labour will have to blame the previous Labour govt when things go wrong. That's how it works isn't it?
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 14, 2023 9:38:32 GMT 1
Things just won't get fixed. Labour will have to blame the previous Labour govt when things go wrong. That's how it works isn't it? Until there's proportional representation our country will continue to muddle along. Problem is, neither of the top two will ever let it happen, they're all on the gravy train. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Nov 14, 2023 11:29:35 GMT 1
May be even with proportional representation things won't change. But lower turn outs due to voter disaffection are more likely to be met with legislation to make voting compulsory than some form of PR. In the meantime we have politics as usual, funded by rich individuals and organisations switching their political allegiances the way they switch their investment portfolios. In fact that analogy is very apt: PR would make their investment in politics more risky and they would have to spend more money on it to "hedge" those risks. Here's the Sunday Times story about Labour Together: archive.ph/3DTUO |
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Post by servernaside on Nov 14, 2023 15:59:31 GMT 1
Things just won't get fixed. Labour will have to blame the previous Labour govt when things go wrong. That's how it works isn't it? Until there's proportional representation our country will continue to muddle along. Problem is, neither of the top two will ever let it happen, they're all on the gravy train. As much as I despise politicians of all parties, PR is the worst possible option. As we have seen in other countries, it is nothing but a recipe for endless coalition governments built on the shifting sands of changing political thought and resulting in minor parties with very small followings, having a disproportionate influence on policy. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Nov 14, 2023 17:50:43 GMT 1
She's s**t the bed with that letter. Full on dropped from the netball team angst. Let them fight.
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Post by wookeywombat on Nov 14, 2023 17:57:45 GMT 1
Until there's proportional representation our country will continue to muddle along. Problem is, neither of the top two will ever let it happen, they're all on the gravy train. As much as I despise politicians of all parties, PR is the worst possible option. As we have seen in other countries, it is nothing but a recipe for endless coalition governments built on the shifting sands of changing political thought and resulting in minor parties with very small followings, having a disproportionate influence on policy. It seems to work in the majority of countries using consensus which is much more beneficial than our system which gravitates from one spectrum to another willy-nilly. |
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Post by mattmw on Nov 14, 2023 19:09:10 GMT 1
She's s**t the bed with that letter. Full on dropped from the netball team angst. Let them fight. It’s hard to believe she has had any legal training based on that letter. Seems more like it was written by a 14 year old after a shandy Think it outlines what I’ve heard from civil servants that she often set ridiculous targets that were never achievable then had a hissy fit when this was pointed out too her. Not one of our brightest Home Secretaries of recent years by all accounts |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 14, 2023 20:14:41 GMT 1
Well if her intension was to put pressure on Sunak I think she will have succeeded (although how many will see or hear of the letter and its content is another matter of course). When I look to the 4 key priorities she listed in the letter I'm pretty sure each is supported by a fair amount of the electorate. If the impression now is that Sunak is simply paying lip service to such policies and isn't showing any interest in them then I think his support and appeal will drop further still. As for Braverman, that she is making it very clear where her priorities lie, I'm not sure we have seen the last of her.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Nov 14, 2023 20:45:49 GMT 1
If he’s failed, she is equally culpable.
If she had any integrity and believed what she said, she would have resigned some time ago. Political opportunist of the worst sort. The nastiest in the nasty party.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Nov 14, 2023 20:47:23 GMT 1
Is Therese Coffey staging a sit in at Number 10 or smuggled out of the back door 🤔🙄 No, she’s been flushed down the toilet to join the rest of the s**te in our rivers . She really was completely out of her depth. |
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Post by servernaside on Nov 14, 2023 20:53:31 GMT 1
She's s**t the bed with that letter. Full on dropped from the netball team angst. Let them fight. It’s hard to believe she has had any legal training based on that letter. Seems more like it was written by a 14 year old after a shandy Think it outlines what I’ve heard from civil servants that she often set ridiculous targets that were never achievable then had a hissy fit when this was pointed out too her. Not one of our brightest Home Secretaries of recent years by all accounts Dream on and while you're at it, let me know how many governments Italy, for example, has had in the last fifty years. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2023 8:41:15 GMT 1
Until there's proportional representation our country will continue to muddle along. Problem is, neither of the top two will ever let it happen, they're all on the gravy train. As much as I despise politicians of all parties, PR is the worst possible option. As we have seen in other countries, it is nothing but a recipe for endless coalition governments built on the shifting sands of changing political thought and resulting in minor parties with very small followings, having a disproportionate influence on policy. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Portugal, The Netherlands, in fact almost every other country on the continent of Europe uses some from of Proportional Representation. Most critics point to southern European countries such as Spain or in particular Italy when they're looking to bash PR, but fail to notice that all of northern and central Europe does it to a very high standard. The UK is alone with Russia and Belarus to not go down the PR route.
No doubt you would not have been complaining if UKIP had gained a few MPs through PR.
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Post by servernaside on Nov 15, 2023 14:00:06 GMT 1
As much as I despise politicians of all parties, PR is the worst possible option. As we have seen in other countries, it is nothing but a recipe for endless coalition governments built on the shifting sands of changing political thought and resulting in minor parties with very small followings, having a disproportionate influence on policy. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Portugal, The Netherlands, in fact almost every other country on the continent of Europe uses some from of Proportional Representation. Most critics point to southern European countries such as Spain or in particular Italy when they're looking to bash PR, but fail to notice that all of northern and central Europe does it to a very high standard. The UK is alone with Russia and Belarus to not go down the PR route.
No doubt you would not have been complaining if UKIP had gained a few MPs through PR.
Actually I would. PR merely gives a parliamentary voice to minority belief parties. We have enough of loud-mouthed minorities already in our society without extending it into parliament. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 15, 2023 15:02:21 GMT 1
Well this has to be Sunak's worse day in office since yesterday.  It will be interesting to see where he goes from here but this coupled with the sacking of Braverman really puts him in a very difficult situation. Maybe they ought to look for somewhere else other than Rwanda. |
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Post by northwestman on Nov 17, 2023 10:28:21 GMT 1
Suella Braverman's solution. Democracy out, dictatorship in. Separation of Powers and Rule of Law binned. All courts and international treaties to be ignored.
For emergency legislation to achieve what the PM says he wants, Parliament needs to amend the Illegal Migration Act so that it meets these five tests:
1.The Bill must address the Supreme Court’s concerns regarding Rwanda
Parliament is entitled to assert that Rwanda is safe without making any changes to our Rwanda partnership.
However, for substantive and presentational reasons, it would be preferable to amend that agreement to address issues identified by the judges. This could include embedding UK observers and independent reviewers of asylum decisions.
It is less important whether these commitments are embodied in an amended memorandum or a new treaty.
What is crucial is that they are practical steps to improve Rwanda’s asylum system. On the basis of these new commitments, Rwanda’s safety could be credibly confirmed on the face of the Bill.
2.The Bill must enable flights before the next general election
Legislation must therefore circumvent the lengthy process of further domestic litigation, to ensure that flights can take off as soon as the new Bill becomes law. To do this, the Bill must exclude all avenues of legal challenge. The entirety of the Human Rights Act and European Convention on Human Rights, and other relevant international obligations, or legislation, including the Refugee Convention, must be disapplied by way of clear “notwithstanding” clauses.
Judicial Review, all common law challenges, and all injunctive relief, including the suspensive challenges available under the Illegal Migration Act must be expressly excluded. Individuals would, however, be given the chance to demonstrate that they had entered the country legally, were under 18, or were medically unfit to fly – but Home Office decisions on these claims could not be challenged in court.
3. Swift removal must mean swift removal
Those arriving illegally must be removed in a matter of days rather than months as under the Illegal Migration Act. This means amending the Act to ensure that removals to Rwanda are mandated under the duty to remove, with strict time limits. This will streamline the Home Office process as much as possible, so that the only Home Office decision is to determine whether an individual falls within the scheme or not.
4.Those arriving here illegally must be detained
Legal challenges to detention must be excluded to avoid burdening the courts, making it clear that detention is mandated until removal.
5.This must be treated as an emergency
The Bill should be introduced by Christmas recess and Parliament should be recalled to sit and debate it over the holiday period.
There is no longer any chance of stopping the boats within the current legal framework.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 17, 2023 10:51:34 GMT 1
Last night Damian Green, who was de facto deputy PM under Theresa May, said proposal 2. meant Braverman wanted to act like Vladimir Putin.
'The second test is the most unconservative statement I have ever heard from a Conservative politician. Giving the state the explicit power to override every legal constraint is what Putin and Xi do. We absolutely cannot go there'.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 17, 2023 10:59:26 GMT 1
Green was not the only Tory tweeting about Braverman’s article last night. Sir Simon Clarke, levelling up secretary in Liz Truss’s government, says he agrees with Braverman’s plan, and that if the Lords block it, Sunak should call an election.
'Suella sets out clear and rigorous tests for new legislation on small boats. We should be crystal clear: half measures won’t work. We need the legislation that is brought forward to be truly effective, and if the Lords block it - let’s take it to the country'.
So going to the country on a culture war issue whilst airbrushing out the last 13 years of failure, lies and corruption - no surprise there then. Desperate times means desperate measures. I can see this happening!
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Post by northwestman on Nov 17, 2023 15:01:44 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 17, 2023 19:33:49 GMT 1
The government are wasting time and our money persuing the idea of processing asylum claims in Rwanda, yet we already have a process, it's just been overun by government cuts and mismanagement. www.gov.uk/claim-asylum |
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2024 12:59:46 GMT 1
Speaking to the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, Ms Braverman said many of her colleagues are “privately demoralised and incredibly concerned about their prospects”.
“At this rate, we’ll be lucky to have any Conservative MPs at the next election, and we need to fight,” she added.
Asked if she regretted supporting Mr Sunak’s bid for the Conservative leadership, Ms Braverman said: “Honestly, yes I do.
“Because I had assurances from Rishi Sunak that he was going to put a cap on legal migration, that he was going to do something about the European Convention on Human Rights, that he was going to fix this transgender ideology in our schools. He hasn’t done that.”
Daily Telegraph.
She's surprised that a politician lies for his own advancement? Surely not!
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Post by ssshrew on May 5, 2024 16:52:12 GMT 1
She also doesn’t seem to accept that she is one of the reasons the electorate are so disillusioned with her party. She must have a very short memory. Ghastly female.
There will be some Tory MOs because there will always be voters who will vote for them come what may - just hopefully not enough of them.
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Post by Valerioch on May 7, 2024 19:47:26 GMT 1
I’d certainly support her leadership bid once lame duck Sunak is finally put out of his misery (were I a Tory member that is)
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Post by staffordshrew on May 9, 2024 20:07:10 GMT 1
I’d certainly support her leadership bid once lame duck Sunak is finally put out of his misery (were I a Tory member that is) Very relieved if you aren't!
Had you been a member, would you have voted for Liz Truss in the last leadership contest?
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Post by Valerioch on May 9, 2024 20:49:42 GMT 1
I’d certainly support her leadership bid once lame duck Sunak is finally put out of his misery (were I a Tory member that is) Very relieved if you aren't!
Had you been a member, would you have voted for Liz Truss in the last leadership contest?
Over Rishi Sunak? Yes, absolutely |
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It will be interesting to see where he goes from here but this coupled with the sacking of Braverman really puts him in a very difficult situation. Maybe they ought to look for somewhere else other than Rwanda.
