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Post by ssshrew on Apr 21, 2023 10:33:13 GMT 1
The trouble is that it’s not what you say but the way that you say it when it comes to verbal bullying.
At least it save Rishi the angst of having to dismiss him I suppose.
As regards his last paragraph- he may say that, I couldn’t possibly comment. As the saying goes.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 21, 2023 10:59:55 GMT 1
Apparently he is a big ally of Sunak so I guess he's fallen on his sword to avoid putting Sunak under any pressure. Was reported that the report should be made public so we wait and see for the details...
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Raab.
Apr 21, 2023 11:30:48 GMT 1
Post by Dancin on Apr 21, 2023 11:30:48 GMT 1
Apparently he is a big ally of Sunak so I guess he's fallen on his sword to avoid putting Sunak under any pressure. Was reported that the report should be made public so we wait and see for the details... Hopefully it will be so those who want to read it can and then make their own minds up? |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 21, 2023 11:34:13 GMT 1
Apparently he is a big ally of Sunak so I guess he's fallen on his sword to avoid putting Sunak under any pressure. Was reported that the report should be made public so we wait and see for the details... Hopefully it will be so those who want to read it can and then make their own minds up? Yeah, I reckon so. Be interesting to see the details having read his resignation letter. |
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Post by Dancin on Apr 21, 2023 11:44:15 GMT 1
Hopefully it will be so those who want to read it can and then make their own minds up? Yeah, I reckon so. Be interesting to see the details having read his resignation letter. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 21, 2023 12:03:49 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Apr 21, 2023 12:21:23 GMT 1
Dominic Raab resigned today, when he should have been sacked yesterday. Sunak saw the Raab bullying report and decided to sleep on it instead of holding his minister accountable. Even in his resignation letter, Raab failed to take responsibility, instead moaning about the “flawed” findings of the report. It shows that even with Johnson gone, Westminster is still devoid of meaningful democratic accountability.
Adam Tolley’s report upheld two of the bullying charges against Dominic Raab. Previously, Raab verbally committed to resigning if any of the allegations were upheld – at least he stuck to his word on that part. Still, the former minister used his resignation letter to blame the victims and further demonstrate why he should never be in a position of power again.
Raab’s pathetic non-apology lamented that the “pace, standards, and challenge” he brought to the role made staff feel offended, and sought to discredit the report itself. He claimed that the “adverse findings” of the inquiry set a “dangerous precedent” and will create a “chilling effect” on ministers. Basically: “You can’t even bully anyone anymore without being accused of bullying”.
A "friend" of Raab's has also allegedly claimed that the minister was the victim of "Brexit revenge" by woke remainer civil servants. Another classic tactic straight out of the Johnson playbook.
Bigger questions arise, however: why did Sunak wait to let Raab resign instead of sacking him – and why did he give a disgraced minister the opportunity to spin the story before the public even got to see the full report?
It’s because this government simply doesn’t believe in accountability. The mechanisms that used to ensure it are gone, and Johnson proved that you can simply ignore and deflect criticism with a straight face. Sunak has learned from that.
This is the same PM that refused to rule out bringing Boris Johnson back into the cabinet, didn’t sack Braverman for ministerial code violations, and let Nadhim Zahawi resist calls to resign after his sordid tax affairs were revealed. He must have known about all of these things when they were occurring – and he just sat there like a lemon.
Our politics will remain dysfunctional until we, the people, can hold those we put in power accountable for the actions they take on our behalf. This is just the latest illustration of that fundamental truth.
No one is accountable in this government, the PM is in on it, and none of this will change without permanent reforms to our broken system.
Open Britain.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 21, 2023 12:22:50 GMT 1
Raab wants to create uncertainty about the verdict and not have the tag of being sacked so there may be a way back after a period of rehabilitation. Will take a lot longer than Braverman's five days though.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 21, 2023 13:27:28 GMT 1
Raab wants to create uncertainty about the verdict and not have the tag of being sacked so there may be a way back after a period of rehabilitation. Will take a lot longer than Braverman's five days though. considering hte conservatives track record he will probably back in some capacity next week. |
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Raab.
Apr 21, 2023 13:29:54 GMT 1
Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 21, 2023 13:29:54 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 21, 2023 13:37:43 GMT 1
Interesting. Are all these Civil Servants who "can't hack it" new to the job, or have they worked perfectly well with ministers before? |
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Raab.
Apr 21, 2023 14:10:08 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 21, 2023 14:10:08 GMT 1
Its not that big a report and so if anyone is interested it can be read pretty quickly and you can pretty much start on page 32 to read about the complaints raised. It looks as though its the the FCDO Complaint that is the most damning. From what I gather anyhow. In the report there was at least one meeting where he went above and beyond what is acceptable. And it states he did so on a second occasion. There really isn't a great deal to say about the DExEU Compliant. The MoJ Complaints are the most recent I think, here the report finds that Raab was intimidating in that he criticized civil servants for not having "basic information" and the "basics" and would call some work "useless" and "woeful". As for his mannerism, the report states that whilst these weren't intimidating and insulting, they may have come across as such by those whose work he had previously criticized. From what I gather the report states that Raab wasn't aware that his behavior was an issue and it seems that since all this has blown up, his behavior has been OK. So whether this could have all been sorted sooner and in-house, who knows but its a possibility. Just to add that Raab has responded to the report with an article in the Telegraph... The people of Britain will pay the price for this Kafkaesque saga |
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Raab.
Apr 21, 2023 15:41:32 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by salop27 on Apr 21, 2023 15:41:32 GMT 1
Having read the key points of the report on the BBC website I am in agreement with Raab's comment: "in setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent".
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Post by northwestman on Apr 21, 2023 17:15:17 GMT 1
Well, let's remember this about Raab too. 'In some ways, then, the resignation is a missed opportunity. What’s not to love about the image of Raab submitting to a mandated anti-bullying training module, his forehead vein going at it like a jackhammer as he punches his way through a series of multiple-choice answers to which the correct one can never be “Shout formatting requests off a Greek paddleboard while the UK literally evacuates an embassy”. During a discussion of Raab’s conduct, Ministry of Justice officials were told by Foreign Office counterparts that “people had died” in the Afghanistan evacuation because of Dom’s refusal to review documents in formats he didn’t like. Back in that fateful August, the holidaying Raab somehow managed to style out the unforgivable spectacle of having been an out-of-office foreign secretary for an emergency withdrawal that Rory Stewart described as a “total betrayal”. Of the decision to give airport facilities for Pen Farthing’s pet rescue, Raab’s colleague Tom Tugendhat observed: “We’ve just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs; meanwhile my interpreter’s family are likely to be killed.” Boris Johnson called the botched Afghanistan withdrawal “one of the most spectacular operations in our country’s postwar military history” , meaning that, as usual, the diametric opposite may be regarded as the truth'. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/21/dominic-raab-hardman-rishi-sunak-scandal |
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Post by wookeywombat on Apr 21, 2023 18:37:13 GMT 1
The trouble with him and many of the present and previous Governments is that they have set a new norm of what they view as acceptable behaviour which is completely foreign to what should be the case. Partygate is the prime example of this and Raab the latest.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 21, 2023 19:04:44 GMT 1
A mark of the man that even in resigning it's others at fault, not him.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 22, 2023 9:43:36 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 22, 2023 10:12:06 GMT 1
The trouble with him and many of the present and previous Governments is that they have set a new norm of what they view as acceptable behaviour which is completely foreign to what should be the case. Partygate is the prime example of this and Raab the latest. Owen Paterson being a Shropshire example. Reminded me of the audacity of the man, and those who defended him, when the Randox Grand National ran last week. They are not getting so much for their money now "their" man is an outsider on the rails. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 22, 2023 15:51:14 GMT 1
Having read the key points of the report on the BBC website I am in agreement with Raab's comment: "in setting the threshold for bullying so low, this inquiry has set a dangerous precedent". Not sure what to think. I mean first off considering the rumours that have been bounded about the report is just the 48 pages long and half of that is the laying the foundations (terms of reference etc.). There isn't a great deal to it considering the amount of time we are talking about. We're not talking about shouting, swearing, throwing anything about (Gordon Brown makes Raab look like a pussy cat) but someone who comes across as abrasive rather than abusive. Plus from what I can tell when it comes to the complaints made one was supposedly dealt with internally and one wasn't deemed worth pursuing. And from what I can recall from the report, whilst he was spoken to about being critical of junior staff directly (as in, he shouldn't), I'm not sure he was ever informed his actions were deemed to be bullying. I don't think I would have liked to have worked for him from what is reported, that's for sure. But whether he should be removed from his position from what is reported, like I say...not sure. But I guess he resigned because he said he would and kept to it. If he hadn't I think he could have stuck it out. |
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Raab.
Apr 22, 2023 22:38:19 GMT 1
Post by kenwood on Apr 22, 2023 22:38:19 GMT 1
Don’t think he could have “ stuck it out “ as you put it.
The Civil Service Union and those within the M of J wouldn’t have let him continue . Without his civil servants his department would have been basically shut down.
Priti Patel was fortunate, Johnson more or less ignored the report into her behaviour which was no different to Raab’s but Sunak’s tenure isn’t so secure and the suggestion is that he needed to make his mark not forgetting that he has been heavily criticised for bringing Braverman back into the fold .
I’m sure Raab and Sunak had a discussion and the outcome was pretty well nailed on from then on.
In some respects Raab has fallen on his sword but no doubt he will be back within the government in due course .
Starmer can say what he likes but the opportunity for him to ridicule Sunak on a Wednesday afternoon over his failure to do the right thing over Raab has been removed to some extent .
Whatever he has to say now will be short lived .
No, what is done is done and we go forward looking with interest at the local elections .
It’s not looking good for the Tory Party but will they suffer total humiliation ?
That’s Sunak’s big worry now and he’s got his own problems to contend with which won’t help. I expect Starmer to enjoy bringing this little failure to disclose to the fore to cause Sunak more embarrassment.
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Raab.
Apr 23, 2023 11:57:38 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 23, 2023 11:57:38 GMT 1
I don't think any department would be shutting up shop on the basis of that report. There is very little to it and its hardly black and white. As in addition, whilst the focus is no doubt on Raab the Civil Service doesn't come out of it very well either. Shutting up shop would only compounded that. I think Raab had no option to step down because he said he would but if he hadn't have done I think they could have found away around it (more so than since knowing his actions were seen as bullying he has since changed his behaviour). Still, its all about opinions.
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Raab.
Feb 22, 2024 20:15:33 GMT 1
Post by northwestman on Feb 22, 2024 20:15:33 GMT 1
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