|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 6, 2022 11:51:14 GMT 1
But you don't condone such behavior surely? Plenty condoned this... I'm sure they did. And I suspect plenty would condone what happened yesterday with Truss.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Sept 6, 2022 11:52:09 GMT 1
If Lizz Truss has got anything about her she will know what to expect and she has chosen to put herself in that position. I’m not, and never will be, a member of the Tory party (or any other party for that matter), but I have followed politics from a very early age and even I know how duplicitous and self seeking MPs can be. It’s no wonder to me at all about the behaviour yesterday. After the last bunch nothing surprises me at all. But you don't condone such behavior surely? Absolutely not. I’m just trying to say that it’s the way of the world now and no one should be surprised. It wouldn’t ever be my way of going about things at all.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 11:52:59 GMT 1
Sorry this thread has totally lost me now with a bunch of Tories patting themselves on the back about being tolerant. The behaviour and hatred towards Corbyn was borderline psychotic, so please don't sit there labelling the left as the downfall of the country, it's proper weird stuff. Both sides are as bad as each other and they always have been. The thread has been lost for 30 pages with article after article and post after post laying into the Tories. No wonder you can't see the wood for the trees.
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Sept 6, 2022 11:53:03 GMT 1
But you don't condone such behavior surely? Plenty condoned this... Corbyn historically aligned himself with pretty much anyone that was an enemy of British national interests. Its no wonder the opinion of him was so low within the British Armed forces considering he has numerous photo op's with people responsible for the death of British citizens, including soldiers. A bit of context wouldn't have gone amiss.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Sept 6, 2022 11:55:32 GMT 1
The trouble is that such behaviour is par for the course everywhere these days. You only have to look at behaviour by some at football matches for another example. However, People always shown their displeasure in the past one of the big differences now is that it can be broadcast on social media. If Lizz Truss has got anything about her she will know what to expect and she has chosen to put herself in that position. I’m not, and never will be, a member of the Tory party (or any other party for that matter), but I have followed politics from a very early age and even I know how duplicitous and self seeking MPs can be. It’s no wonder to me at all about the behaviour yesterday. After the last bunch nothing surprises me at all. Her biggest job, after the economy, will be to somehow put some integrity and trust back into the party and I just wonder if she has the backbone to do that or even if I will see it in my lifetime. The damage done by Boris and his cronies is immeasurable. There never used to be such anger and aggression, but the tolerant left (tolerant only if your opinion matches theirs I may add) have really been allowed to stoke the fire and act how they wish. Attacks on Tory MPs, death threats, vile verbal abuse such as that Sutton suffered yesterday. We need to get back to the idea that you can be a Tory voter/supporter without being someone who starves children and hates the poor, it's absurd. I can take any policy from Labour and happy debate it, I can also tolerate their existence and also agree with some of their points. Corbyn & McDonnell make me sick to the stomach with their action and policy, but I wouldn't dream of being anything other than neutral if I passed them in the street, I'd rather debate them than abuse them, it's ridiculous. I think people need to learn to be more tolerable of others, but if I'm completely honest I feel a lot more hate is coming from the tolerant left/far left than anywhere else. It May be so although it can be argued that the extreme right have a lot to answer for as well. For me, extremes of any sort are lethal and dangerous. Being in the middle may be boring but I’m sure it enables much more rational thinking.
|
|
|
Post by armchairfan on Sept 6, 2022 11:55:49 GMT 1
I'm really sorry that you cannot have seen it. I thought you prided yourself by astutely following politics. Now, as I suspected, I know different. I repeat that Brexit was the most divisive event in my lifetime bringing about an increase in aggression during demonstrations and counter demonstrations. That there was indeed an increase in the aggressive attitudes on view at those demonstrations and counter demonstrations, but whilst it is certainly true that the whole issue divided the country, it is something of a stretch to somehow validate those aggressive attitudes through the prism of those demonstrations, whether "for" or "against": the overwhelming majority of the electorate attended NO demonstrations at all, and whatever the sound and fury generated at those events, that relatively silent majority cast their votes without feeling the need to insult, villify or physically attack those of a contrary view; I offer my thanks to that silent majority, not so much because I agreed with and respected their judgement, but more so because on the whole they did not allow themselves to become embroiled in the vicious nastiness in evidence on the extremes; I would venture to suggest that not one of the members of this board came even close to descending into such behaviour towards any of a different view.
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Sept 6, 2022 11:55:58 GMT 1
Sorry this thread has totally lost me now with a bunch of Tories patting themselves on the back about being tolerant. The behaviour and hatred towards Corbyn was borderline psychotic, so please don't sit there labelling the left as the downfall of the country, it's proper weird stuff. Both sides are as bad as each other and they always have been. The thread has been lost for 30 pages with article after article and post after post laying into the Tories.No wonder you can't see the wood for the trees. And only now shelton wonders where this thread descended into a slanging match because it seemed all so well measured and thought out before.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Sept 6, 2022 11:59:35 GMT 1
last MP I remember getting egged, thumped the bloke back , can't remember his name. ( 2 jags ) John Prescott.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Sept 6, 2022 12:13:14 GMT 1
. "Liz Truss still doesn’t get it - Boris Johnson did *not* get Brexit done, his myriad mistakes over Covid cost countless lives, & he leaves having disgraced his office. Meanwhile, she’s campaigned as a right wing ideologue & will govern as such - which is a disaster for all of us"
Caroline Lucas.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Sept 6, 2022 12:31:24 GMT 1
Anyone who watched last night's programme on Channel 5, 'Riot, the week England burned' (August 2011) will be aware of the likely concerns of the present government with regards to potential civil unrest over the cost of living crisis.
Cameron and the Mayor of London, a certain Boris Johnson, were both on holiday when things kicked off in Tottenham.
|
|
kp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 495
|
Post by kp on Sept 6, 2022 12:33:26 GMT 1
Corbyn historically aligned himself with pretty much anyone that was an enemy of British national interests. Its no wonder the opinion of him was so low within the British Armed forces considering he has numerous photo op's with people responsible for the death of British citizens, including soldiers. A bit of context wouldn't have gone amiss. Like I say, plenty condoned it...even made excuses for it. You will reap what you sow. Enjoy it.
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Sept 6, 2022 12:33:47 GMT 1
Anyone who watched last night's programme on Channel 5, 'Riot, the week England burned' (August 2011) will be aware of the likely concerns of the present government with regards to potential civil unrest over the cost of living crisis. Cameron and the Mayor of London, a certain Boris Johnson, were both on holiday when things kicked off in Tottenham. The civil unrest was caused by the death of a drug dealer in London. Nothing to do with the cost of living. I think most reasonable people would give their right arm for Boris Johnson to return as the Mayor of London given the appalling record of the incumbent.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 6, 2022 12:36:33 GMT 1
I was lucky enough to be in the QE yesterday for the announcement and was at CCHQ when Liz came in to thank the staff and volunteers. I was absolutely shocked by some of the pure hatred shouted at us as we went into the QE. I'm all for opinions, sides and divides but I was really taken back by the fact people believe they can personally abuse and in some cases assault others in the name of freedom of speech. I think it shows just how big a job Truss will have not only uniting the party but also trying to quell some of the pure hatred pushed towards anyone in government. Hatred has been peddled by those in high positions within the political left that all Tories are practically murdering families on benefits and disabled people, starving kids etc. It's a very dangerous rhetoric and one that isn't true. I do think there is something in that. Certainly when you look to social media and the rhetoric used. I mean you have people out there who seem to have convinced themselves that the UK under this current Tory government is some fascist dictatorship. Which is a useful tool when looking to excuse your own hate, intolerance, bigotry, etc. You demonize something or someone enough then you can convince yourself they are a legitimate target and you can excuse the sort of behavior no doubt seen yesterday by Sutton.
|
|
kp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 495
|
Post by kp on Sept 6, 2022 12:36:36 GMT 1
I'm not quite sure what your point is with this post? Everybody with an ounce of sense would condemn such behaviour and agree the individual deserved his custodial sentence for assault; arguably should've been longer. Is there anything to suggest who the individual that committed the assault politically aligns himself with? I can't see from the video. The commentary mentioned Brexit. The point is obvious. Didn't a female MP get murdered in the UK not so long ago?
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Sept 6, 2022 12:38:59 GMT 1
I'm not quite sure what your point is with this post? Everybody with an ounce of sense would condemn such behaviour and agree the individual deserved his custodial sentence for assault; arguably should've been longer. Is there anything to suggest who the individual that committed the assault politically aligns himself with? I can't see from the video. The commentary mentioned Brexit. The point is obvious. Didn't a female MP get murdered in the UK not so long ago? As did a male MP. A Tory one for that matter.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 12:39:59 GMT 1
I'm not quite sure what your point is with this post? Everybody with an ounce of sense would condemn such behaviour and agree the individual deserved his custodial sentence for assault; arguably should've been longer. Is there anything to suggest who the individual that committed the assault politically aligns himself with? I can't see from the video. The commentary mentioned Brexit. The point is obvious. Didn't a female MP get murdered in the UK not so long ago? She did, Jo Cox; an abhorrent episode of violence ultimately taking her life. It was by a terrorist with ultra right wing ideology. Disgusting, hope the ****er rots inside.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 12:45:48 GMT 1
The rumoured diversity in the cabinet is welcome, looks to be a mixed of individuals which is encouraging. The last cabinet was reasonably diverse, the rumoured cabinet is very diverse which is great for everyone.
Hoping Penny Mordaunt, Kemi Badinoch & Suella Braverman feature. I'd like Tom Tugendhat to feature also, the cabinet needs young, fresh ideas.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 12:53:51 GMT 1
I'll say it again, I don't think language like this does anything other than stoke up hate and divide people.
A ban on MPs using social media might be beneficial.
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Sept 6, 2022 12:56:28 GMT 1
It certainly does not set a good example and such language is very demeaning to the person who posted I would have thought.
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Sept 6, 2022 12:58:41 GMT 1
I'll say it again, I don't think language like this does anything other than stoke up hate and divide people. A ban on MPs using social media might be beneficial. Angela Rayner is another one. Although she at least had the decency to apologise.
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Sept 6, 2022 12:59:06 GMT 1
The thread has been lost for 30 pages with article after article and post after post laying into the Tories.No wonder you can't see the wood for the trees. And only now shelton wonders where this thread descended into a slanging match because it seemed all so well measured and thought out before. My mistake, I'll let you two go back and forth with each other laughing about how intolerant the left are.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 13:01:31 GMT 1
I'll say it again, I don't think language like this does anything other than stoke up hate and divide people. A ban on MPs using social media might be beneficial. Angela Rayner is another one. Although she at least had the decency to apologise. Angela Raynor has some decent ideas, she just comes across as a keyboard warrior and an angry nutter because of her social media obsession. If she got Labour round a table and channeled her social media energy into suggesting and agreeing policy she'd likely make a cracking MP. There's a general election in less than 2 years and nobody looks set to excite the country as yet.
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Sept 6, 2022 13:06:54 GMT 1
Anyone who watched last night's programme on Channel 5, 'Riot, the week England burned' (August 2011) will be aware of the likely concerns of the present government with regards to potential civil unrest over the cost of living crisis. Cameron and the Mayor of London, a certain Boris Johnson, were both on holiday when things kicked off in Tottenham. The civil unrest was caused by the death of a drug dealer in London. Nothing to do with the cost of living. I think most reasonable people would give their right arm for Boris Johnson to return as the Mayor of London given the appalling record of the incumbent. I never suggested that the original incident in August 2011 was to do with the cost of living. I suggest you watch the programme. The riot in Tottenham was indeed caused by the police shooting Mark Duggan, but looters latched on to the disturbances both there and in other parts of the UK. The programme therefore concluded that it only needs one incident somewhere in the UK for things to spiral out of control. Years later, what was blindingly obvious is belatedly acknowledged: the previous riots were actually connected with social issues. Rioters had genuine grievances. Government policies played an important part. And that's where the cost of living might play a part. After analysing police crime data, archive sources and conducting interviews with rioters, the Economic and Social Research Council’s interim report in 2019 identified three key processes that explain the spread of riots in 2011: one was where people in another location identified with those who had previously rioted, shared their anger at Duggan’s death and their hostility to the police, and rioted in solidarity with their peers. Another involved those who did not identify with previous rioters but still shared their antagonism at the police and, seeing the impotence of officers, felt empowered to challenge them. Finally, there were situations where the police feared the occurrence of riots and intervened forcefully in response to minor incidents, escalating pre-existing tensions into open conflict. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/06/2011-riots-blame-unrest-media-politicians-madness-crowds
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Sept 6, 2022 13:11:27 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Sept 6, 2022 13:22:08 GMT 1
|
|
kp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 495
|
Post by kp on Sept 6, 2022 13:49:17 GMT 1
If a millionaire spent £1 per second the money would run out in less than 12 days. £60/m £3600/hr £86400/day It would take a billionaire over 11574 days or more than 31 years at the same rate of spend to run out of money.
|
|
|
Post by wookeywombat on Sept 6, 2022 14:36:48 GMT 1
I'm really sorry that you cannot have seen it. I thought you prided yourself by astutely following politics. Now, as I suspected, I know different. I repeat that Brexit was the most divisive event in my lifetime bringing about an increase in aggression during demonstrations and counter demonstrations. You don't need to belittle somebody to try and make a point, you should just actually make a valid point. To blame increased violence from some of those on the left of the political scale on divisive issues is both poor and embarrassing. We should call out violence for what it is, violence. What did Sutton do to deserve abuse being hurled in his/his friends direction? He's a decent guy, a volunteer for our football club and simply attended a conservative event, did he deserve that? The notion that all Tories are the same and other lazy stereotypes about those with a right of centre voting persuasion need to be challenged. Quite rightly I condone any sort of threat of violence but your assertion that it comes solely from the left is groundless. It's Ok for you to belittle people which you continually do to political figures on the left is it? You say you like to debate rather than confront. Have you actually done that with the political figures you have a stilted view of. Your posted hatred of Corbyn etc invalidates any thing you have to say on the matter.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 14:50:50 GMT 1
You don't need to belittle somebody to try and make a point, you should just actually make a valid point. To blame increased violence from some of those on the left of the political scale on divisive issues is both poor and embarrassing. We should call out violence for what it is, violence. What did Sutton do to deserve abuse being hurled in his/his friends direction? He's a decent guy, a volunteer for our football club and simply attended a conservative event, did he deserve that? The notion that all Tories are the same and other lazy stereotypes about those with a right of centre voting persuasion need to be challenged. Quite rightly I condone any sort of threat of violence but your assertion that it comes solely from the left is groundless. It's Ok for you to belittle people which you continually do to political figures on the left is it? You say you like to debate rather than confront. Have you actually done that with the political figures you have a stilted view of. Your posted hatred of Corbyn etc invalidates any thing you have to say on the matter. I disagree, I'm allowed to heavily dislike Corbyn, that's my opinion. I don't see an issue there, I'm hardly alone? I did ask what a nice fella like Suttonshrew, one of our SLOs has done to deserve such vile abuse for simply attending a conservative conference? I don't belittle figures on the political left, I simply don't like some of them and think some of them could benefit from channeling their wasted energy away from social media. There's plenty on the right of the political spectrum that I dislike as well.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Sept 6, 2022 14:52:16 GMT 1
To try and steer the thread back on to something vaguely relevant, I notice the press are now widely reporting that the energy loan system will come into place.
Saw in one of the papers (apologies, can't remember which) that the proposal would put the mythical "average" household at £2.5kpa and freeze the cap there for 18 months.
I think that level might actually be about right to tackle the question of demand (though it worries me that the flat rate likely means those on low incomes will really suffer) whilst allowing some surety but not having some sort of mechanism to claw back at least some of the money from the wholesalers seems crazy to me.
I guess we shouldn't expect anything different from a conservative government but it seems a huge gamble to me to assume that we won't just be in an even worse position come March 2024, with base rates predicted to spike to 5% by March 2023 adding hundreds of pounds a month to people's mortgages or, if Truss and co nobble the Bank of England, we could be looking at inflation double where it is now.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Sept 6, 2022 14:57:25 GMT 1
To try and steer the thread back on to something vaguely relevant, I notice the press are now widely reporting that the energy loan system will come into place. Saw in one of the papers (apologies, can't remember which) that the proposal would put the mythical "average" household at £2.5kpa and freeze the cap there for 18 months. I think that level might actually be about right to tackle the question of demand (though it worries me that the flat rate likely means those on low incomes will really suffer) whilst allowing some surety but not having some sort of mechanism to claw back at least some of the money from the wholesalers seems crazy to me. I guess we shouldn't expect anything different from a conservative government but it seems a huge gamble to me to assume that we won't just be in an even worse position come March 2024, with base rates predicted to spike to 5% by March 2023 adding hundreds of pounds a month to people's mortgages or, if Truss and co nobble the Bank of England, we could be looking at inflation double where it is now. Be interesting to see what she says, one thing for sure, no matter where you sit on the spectrum, you can appreciate it's an incredibly difficult challenge and a difficult time to be PM.
|
|