|
|
Post by suttonshrew on Aug 25, 2022 10:36:21 GMT 1
Going to be a tough gig for either Rishi or Truss. I have recently met both and Rishi is def the most polished of the 2, but struggles to connect with the average person. Liz is tough and I wouldn’t underestimate her shaking things up if needed. I’m a member and voted Truss but I held off until the last possible minute. Will be interesting how the party takes the result either way Would either of the options given to you by the MPs have been your first choice? Nope, but for me it’s not about the top job it’s about who they will get in their cabinets that will be the big thing. Truss is backed by some steady hands, Sunak will struggle unless he can unite the party |
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Aug 25, 2022 10:39:16 GMT 1
Too late now I’m afraid. He was too busy being a ‘yes’ man and I suspect so was Truss. Either that or he’s telling lies now just to make himself look good.
Either way it just adds to the argument that neither of them are fit to run the country particularly when better candidates were dismissed early on by the party. It’s hopeless whichever way you look at it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Aug 25, 2022 10:40:41 GMT 1
Would either of the options given to you by the MPs have been your first choice? Nope, but for me it’s not about the top job it’s about who they will get in their cabinets that will be the big thing. Truss is backed by some steady hands, Sunak will struggle unless he can unite the party Do we include Boris as one of her ‘steady hands’? I hope not because it doesn’t say much for the rest of them or inspire confidence. |
|
|
|
Post by suttonshrew on Aug 25, 2022 10:50:14 GMT 1
Wouldn’t want Boris anywhere near front line politics and I’m pretty sure he has no intention of being there either
|
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Aug 25, 2022 10:50:54 GMT 1
I really really hope you are right!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 11:26:08 GMT 1
Would either of the options given to you by the MPs have been your first choice? Nope, but for me it’s not about the top job it’s about who they will get in their cabinets that will be the big thing. Truss is backed by some steady hands, Sunak will struggle unless he can unite the party She is also backed by Mad Nad and the Minister for the 18th Century. That's what worries me. |
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Aug 25, 2022 11:30:20 GMT 1
Saw some friends yesterday who are both Tory party members and who went to the hustings in Exeter recently. Both going for Truss as they reckon she’s better on policy, will be more collegiate, by which I think they mean will use the cabinet better and have a wider range of views than yes-men (believe that when I see it). They also believe she’s delivered on her promise to get post Brexit trade deals through (haven’t heard anything about that). They agreed with my view that she seems to be pushing all the right buttons to satisfy the Tory party electorate, but whether, if elected she’ll continue with them remains to be seen.
|
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Aug 25, 2022 11:35:51 GMT 1
I really really hope you are right! He's nailed on to be doing something involving Ukraine, such as being our envoy for either there or Eastern Europe generally. He just loves the hero worship and photo opportunities given to him there, Poland and the Baltic States. |
|
|
|
Post by suttonshrew on Aug 25, 2022 11:45:04 GMT 1
I’m not convinced I can’t see him wanting to be involved, for all his faults he’s been handed one of the toughest PM ships in history. If I were him I’d be hitting the after dinner speaking and making a fortune away from front line politics
|
|
|
|
Post by block12massive on Aug 25, 2022 11:45:23 GMT 1
I really really hope you are right! He's nailed on to be doing something involving Ukraine, such as being our envoy for either there or Eastern Europe generally. He just loves the hero worship and photo opportunities given to him there, Poland and the Baltic States. Not a bad legacy to have when leaving office. Just contrast it to Blair's defining illegal war in Iraq. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 25, 2022 12:16:30 GMT 1
So it will probably be Truss then. Things are about to get a heck of a lot worse for the country. Hopefully it won't be for too long.
|
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Aug 25, 2022 12:21:23 GMT 1
He's nailed on to be doing something involving Ukraine, such as being our envoy for either there or Eastern Europe generally. He just loves the hero worship and photo opportunities given to him there, Poland and the Baltic States. Not a bad legacy to have when leaving office. Just contrast it to Blair's defining illegal war in Iraq. Absolutely right. |
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Aug 25, 2022 12:45:12 GMT 1
Not a bad legacy to have when leaving office. Just contrast it to Blair's defining illegal war in Iraq. Absolutely right. Just to chime in I'd take Blair back in a heartbeat over Johnson, countries been downhill since he left office. |
|
|
|
Post by salop27 on Aug 25, 2022 13:14:30 GMT 1
Whoever wins on September 5th will inherit the biggest crisis since Churchill in 1940.
Following Truss's comments on tax cuts being the best way to deal with the current cost of living I felt Sunak to be the only choice.
Sunak is seen to be unpopular due to his wealth but it's hardly like any past PMs have been poor and the leader of the opposition is hardly short of cash either.
|
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Aug 25, 2022 13:31:27 GMT 1
Truss's tax cuts relate to the N.I. increase and corporation tax. As Sunak has correctly pointed out, this will not help pensioners or those on benefits.
Whereas my primary concern is Sunak's stealth tax freezing personal tax allowances until 2026. Mordaunt was prepared to ditch this, but never made the final two.
|
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Aug 25, 2022 13:48:47 GMT 1
Just to chime in I'd take Blair back in a heartbeat over Johnson, countries been downhill since he left office. Thousands upon thousands were murdered on his watch under his instruction and the entire middle east is a mess, does that not bother you in the slightest? For all Boris' failures, and there's plenty of them; he's not even close on the level of disgrace of that of Blair. Blair should be tried as a war criminal, he's a horrendous individual. |
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Aug 25, 2022 13:51:58 GMT 1
Whoever wins on September 5th will inherit the biggest crisis since Churchill in 1940. Following Truss's comments on tax cuts being the best way to deal with the current cost of living I felt Sunak to be the only choice. Sunak is seen to be unpopular due to his wealth but it's hardly like any past PMs have been poor and the leader of the opposition is hardly short of cash either. The fact he and his partner have a net worth of £750m+ would surely mean he'd be less like to need his nose anywhere near the trough? Hardly as if he needs a £100k bung for a contract or a position is it? |
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Aug 25, 2022 14:08:16 GMT 1
Just to chime in I'd take Blair back in a heartbeat over Johnson, countries been downhill since he left office. Thousands upon thousands were murdered on his watch under his instruction and the entire middle east is a mess, does that not bother you in the slightest? For all Boris' failures, and there's plenty of them; he's not even close on the level of disgrace of that of Blair. Blair should be tried as a war criminal, he's a horrendous individual. I can hate his foreign policy but love his domestic policy. The two aren't exclusive. |
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Aug 25, 2022 14:43:46 GMT 1
Thousands upon thousands were murdered on his watch under his instruction and the entire middle east is a mess, does that not bother you in the slightest? For all Boris' failures, and there's plenty of them; he's not even close on the level of disgrace of that of Blair. Blair should be tried as a war criminal, he's a horrendous individual. I can hate his foreign policy but love his domestic policy. The two aren't exclusive. I can't be loving this aspect of his domestic policy: theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077To understand why Britain became so opposed to migration from the EU, it’s key to understand a decision made by the Labour government in 2004, which has had lasting political repercussions. In May 2004, the EU welcomed ten new member states – the majority from Central and Eastern Europe – in what was the largest expansion in the history of European integration. The UK was one of only three member states, alongside Sweden and Ireland, to open its labour market to these new EU citizens immediately. Although ten countries became EU member states in 2004, attention focused on the “A8 countries”. These were Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia. While the number of migrants from Central and Eastern Europe into the UK was predicted to be in the region of 5,000 to 13,000 on the assumption that other member states would also open their labour markets, most didn’t. And the flows turned out to be over 20 times the upper end of this estimate. In 2004 and 2005, 129,000 migrants from the A8 countries entered Britain. In 2007, 112,000 A8 nationals entered. Come June 23 2016, the British public decided by a slim majority that the benefits of EU membership did not outweigh the costs, and for many the perceived cost of free movement was the deciding factor. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said. The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up". Labour relied on research suggesting 13,000 migrants a year would arrive. But the influx was much larger than expected and contributed to net migration rising above 200,000 a year. Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls. |
|
|
|
Post by wookeywombat on Aug 25, 2022 15:05:43 GMT 1
Not a bad legacy to have when leaving office. Just contrast it to Blair's defining illegal war in Iraq. Absolutely right. Good to see you siding with one of your betes noir:- After the report was issued, Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition and leader of the Labour Party - who had voted against military action - gave a speech in Westminster stating: "I now apologise sincerely on behalf of my party for the disastrous decision to go to war in Iraq in March 2003" which he called an "act of military aggression launched on a false pretext" something that has "long been regarded as illegal by the overwhelming weight of international opinion".[56] Corbyn specifically apologised to "the people of Iraq"; to the families of British soldiers who died in Iraq or returned injured; and to "the millions of British citizens who feel our democracy was traduced and undermined by the way in which the decision to go to war was taken on" |
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Aug 25, 2022 15:08:27 GMT 1
I can hate his foreign policy but love his domestic policy. The two aren't exclusive. I can't be loving this aspect of his domestic policy: theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077To understand why Britain became so opposed to migration from the EU, it’s key to understand a decision made by the Labour government in 2004, which has had lasting political repercussions. In May 2004, the EU welcomed ten new member states – the majority from Central and Eastern Europe – in what was the largest expansion in the history of European integration. The UK was one of only three member states, alongside Sweden and Ireland, to open its labour market to these new EU citizens immediately. Although ten countries became EU member states in 2004, attention focused on the “A8 countries”. These were Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia. While the number of migrants from Central and Eastern Europe into the UK was predicted to be in the region of 5,000 to 13,000 on the assumption that other member states would also open their labour markets, most didn’t. And the flows turned out to be over 20 times the upper end of this estimate. In 2004 and 2005, 129,000 migrants from the A8 countries entered Britain. In 2007, 112,000 A8 nationals entered. Come June 23 2016, the British public decided by a slim majority that the benefits of EU membership did not outweigh the costs, and for many the perceived cost of free movement was the deciding factor. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924219Having no restrictions on eastern European migrants in 2004 was a "spectacular mistake", former Labour home secretary Jack Straw has said. The Labour MP said handing immediate working rights to Poles and others when they joined the EU was a "well-intentioned policy we messed up". Labour relied on research suggesting 13,000 migrants a year would arrive. But the influx was much larger than expected and contributed to net migration rising above 200,000 a year. Unlike France and Germany, which did not give migrants from the ten countries which joined the EU in May 2004 full access to their labour market until 2011, the then Labour government did not insist on any transitional controls. Can't say that bothered me much either to be honest, they tended to do the jobs most Brits would consider beneath them |
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Aug 25, 2022 15:52:39 GMT 1
Good to see you siding with one of your betes noir:- After the report was issued, Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition and leader of the Labour Party - who had voted against military action - gave a speech in Westminster stating: "I now apologise sincerely on behalf of my party for the disastrous decision to go to war in Iraq in March 2003" which he called an "act of military aggression launched on a false pretext" something that has "long been regarded as illegal by the overwhelming weight of international opinion".[56] Corbyn specifically apologised to "the people of Iraq"; to the families of British soldiers who died in Iraq or returned injured; and to "the millions of British citizens who feel our democracy was traduced and undermined by the way in which the decision to go to war was taken on" Anybody with a beating heart knew it was the wrong decision. However the Comrade is one step further in that he sides with terrorist organisations and is a sympathiser. It's one thing lying about the extent of terrorist organisations, getting in bed with the barstewards is another. Thankfully those with sense voted to keep Comrade away from front line politics, an incredibly sensible choice. |
|
|
|
Post by wookeywombat on Aug 25, 2022 16:56:33 GMT 1
Good to see you siding with one of your betes noir:- After the report was issued, Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition and leader of the Labour Party - who had voted against military action - gave a speech in Westminster stating: "I now apologise sincerely on behalf of my party for the disastrous decision to go to war in Iraq in March 2003" which he called an "act of military aggression launched on a false pretext" something that has "long been regarded as illegal by the overwhelming weight of international opinion".[56] Corbyn specifically apologised to "the people of Iraq"; to the families of British soldiers who died in Iraq or returned injured; and to "the millions of British citizens who feel our democracy was traduced and undermined by the way in which the decision to go to war was taken on" Anybody with a beating heart knew it was the wrong decision. However the Comrade is one step further in that he sides with terrorist organisations and is a sympathiser. It's one thing lying about the extent of terrorist organisations, getting in bed with the barstewards is another. Thankfully those with sense voted to keep Comrade away from front line politics, an incredibly sensible choice. Unbelievably you still don't get it. Jaw jaw not war war is NOT siding with terrorists. At least he was open with these talks unlike the clandestine methods adopted by Thatcher. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 26, 2022 7:19:19 GMT 1
Just to chime in I'd take Blair back in a heartbeat over Johnson, countries been downhill since he left office. Thousands upon thousands were murdered on his watch under his instruction and the entire middle east is a mess, does that not bother you in the slightest? For all Boris' failures, and there's plenty of them; he's not even close on the level of disgrace of that of Blair. Blair should be tried as a war criminal, he's a horrendous individual. Blair sowed the seeds for Brexit too. I gather he is very much a supporter of the UK's membership of the EU. If so, his desire to "rub the rights nose in diversity" certainly backfired on him on that front. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 26, 2022 7:27:04 GMT 1
Whoever wins on September 5th will inherit the biggest crisis since Churchill in 1940. Following Truss's comments on tax cuts being the best way to deal with the current cost of living I felt Sunak to be the only choice. Sunak is seen to be unpopular due to his wealth but it's hardly like any past PMs have been poor and the leader of the opposition is hardly short of cash either. The fact he and his partner have a net worth of £750m+ would surely mean he'd be less like to need his nose anywhere near the trough? Hardly as if he needs a £100k bung for a contract or a position is it? The thing is though when many of us are struggling it doesn't look too good having a swimming pool (and maybe a tennis court from looking to the pictures but not sure) built at your grade II listed manor house. Nowt wrong with that in the great scheme of things but for someone who is seen to be out of touch with so many its not a good look. I still think he has plenty to give but I think his chance has come about at the wrong time. A week is a long time in politics as they say. |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 26, 2022 7:53:34 GMT 1
Going to be a tough gig for either Rishi or Truss. I have recently met both and Rishi is def the most polished of the 2, but struggles to connect with the average person. Liz is tough and I wouldn’t underestimate her shaking things up if needed. I’m a member and voted Truss but I held off until the last possible minute. Will be interesting how the party takes the result either way Regarding Truss, do you think what we see from her is her real true persona? I just wonder at times whether she is being herself, whether we are seeing the real Liz Truss or whether its an act she feels she needs to project in order to appeal (whether she is tough, for example). I appreciate there is always a lot of that within politics but I just don't know how genuine she is. That this is still ongoing and taking so long is another matter but it does looks as though she will be the next PM. I wish her all the very best anyhow. Its one hell of a time to be taking over the reins. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinB on Aug 26, 2022 8:02:19 GMT 1
Going to be a tough gig for either Rishi or Truss. I have recently met both and Rishi is def the most polished of the 2, but struggles to connect with the average person. Liz is tough and I wouldn’t underestimate her shaking things up if needed. I’m a member and voted Truss but I held off until the last possible minute. Will be interesting how the party takes the result either way Regarding Truss, do you think what we see from her is her real true persona? I just wonder at times whether she is being herself, whether we are seeing the real Liz Truss or whether its an act she feels she needs to project in order to appeal (whether she is tough, for example). I appreciate there is always a lot of that within politics but I just don't know how genuine she is. That this is still ongoing and taking so long is another matter but it does looks as though she will be the next PM. I wish her all the very best anyhow. Its one hell of a time to be taking over the reins. I think we know the real Liz Truss. That's the one who will do and say anything to progress her own career. We are heading for another PM with only their interests and that of their mates at heart. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinB on Aug 26, 2022 8:04:57 GMT 1
Thousands upon thousands were murdered on his watch under his instruction and the entire middle east is a mess, does that not bother you in the slightest? For all Boris' failures, and there's plenty of them; he's not even close on the level of disgrace of that of Blair. Blair should be tried as a war criminal, he's a horrendous individual. Blair sowed the seeds for Brexit too. I gather he is very much a supporter of the UK's membership of the EU. If so, his desire to "rub the rights nose in diversity" certainly backfired on him on that front. We only had a referendum on Europe because David Cameron couldn't sort out the in fighting in the Tory Party over Europe. He thought "get public to vote, they will vote to stay and that solves my issue" |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 26, 2022 8:13:01 GMT 1
Blair sowed the seeds for Brexit too. I gather he is very much a supporter of the UK's membership of the EU. If so, his desire to "rub the rights nose in diversity" certainly backfired on him on that front. He thought "get public to vote, they will vote to stay and that solves my issue" They certainly misjudged the mood of the country for sure. However, there were a number of reasons as to why people voted for Brexit and one of those was to see immigration managed differently. And I have no doubt that was in no small part because of the population increase that the UK (or rather England) had seen since 2004...👍 |
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 26, 2022 8:25:34 GMT 1
Regarding Truss, do you think what we see from her is her real true persona? I just wonder at times whether she is being herself, whether we are seeing the real Liz Truss or whether its an act she feels she needs to project in order to appeal (whether she is tough, for example). I appreciate there is always a lot of that within politics but I just don't know how genuine she is. That this is still ongoing and taking so long is another matter but it does looks as though she will be the next PM. I wish her all the very best anyhow. Its one hell of a time to be taking over the reins. That's the one who will do and say anything to progress her own career. We are heading for another PM with only their interests and that of their mates at heart. I don't actually get too much of that vibe from Truss. My concern is whether she is able to deliver on what she wants for the country. It's her abilities that concern me, whether she has what is needed to become PM (or rather make a good PM). Just not sure about that... |
|
