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Post by Pilch on May 24, 2022 17:28:24 GMT 1
If I was at a match I would only be able to stand for a limited time. I do not regard myself as disabled and I have certainly never been drunk at a match. The point is there are probably plenty of fans that would find it uncomfortable to stand for a whole game but wouldn't be regarded as disabled. It would just be interesting to know what proportion of fans fit into that category. It may be that there are not that many and that safe standing could cover a much larger area. This obviously something the club would have to consider in any plans to extend the scheme. From memory, the capacity of the South Stand is about 1500 - 1700? Similar for the North Stand, leaving a good 6 or 7k seats in the side stands. I would be extremely surprised if that isn't enough to accommodate everybody that needs (or wants) to sit for a full 90 mins, given our average attendance in total, including away fans, is only a shade over 6k. The side stands also offer a superior view of the match. Personal view is concerns around who can stand up or who has a season ticket in there are a bit of a red herring as I'm fairly sure there'll be a small minority who will vocally complain about having to move and a larger, quieter majority who will understand that the world is changing. For me the bigger question is the simple point of return on investment. I certainly think the club can bump up the numbers if they do simultaneously try to clamp down on standing in other areas of the ground. I also wonder if there'll be a snowball effect whereby people will see it full and loud on big match days and want to join in. Definitely see WATR point that this is likely to be happening at other grounds so would be good to be ahead of the curve again. Ultimately not convinced the club will see it as value for money though. Could be another case of the fans having to step in and contribute? I dare you to ask the club to spend thousands on a project that will ultimately upset a lot of fans who enjoy sitting behind the goal, I spent a couple of seasons there, and almost all my childhood/youth standing behind the goal, if I'd have been quicker off the mark and got myself a higher up seat behind the goal I'd probably still be there
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Post by chameleon on May 24, 2022 18:31:03 GMT 1
Making the whole stand safe standing makes little sense when it rarely sells out. With that said block 19 was dire last season. I didn't make it to as many games as usual but there was a lot of faces missing and a lot of new younger faces. Atmosphere was flat and it wouldn't surprise me if at least half of block 19 move over to the safe standing. Half of block 19 wouldn’t be able to move over to safe standing though.
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Post by South Stand Flags on May 24, 2022 19:01:21 GMT 1
They sorted all the new flags out on Friday. All ready for the new season now I believe. Shipping took longer than planned Thanks been waiting for an update. 👍 Apologies for lack of updates on here. We raised a lot more than expected which meant we able to expand what we’re planning, in turn this meant a longer wait for everything to arrive. We were down the Meadow on Friday assembling the new flags, just need to repair the existing ones and we’re good to go.
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Post by WATR on May 24, 2022 19:04:20 GMT 1
Making the whole stand safe standing makes little sense when it rarely sells out. With that said block 19 was dire last season. I didn't make it to as many games as usual but there was a lot of faces missing and a lot of new younger faces. Atmosphere was flat and it wouldn't surprise me if at least half of block 19 move over to the safe standing. Half of block 19 wouldn’t be able to move over to safe standing though. This is kind of related with to my previous post on this thread, if you assume that people would want to move to stand near the drum, with safe standing block 9 as good as sold out, they wouldn’t be able to as it stands. We need the section to expand downwards.
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Post by martinshrew on May 24, 2022 20:43:13 GMT 1
Half of block 19 wouldn’t be able to move over to safe standing though. This is kind of related with to my previous post on this thread, if you assume that people would want to move to stand near the drum, with safe standing block 9 as good as sold out, they wouldn’t be able to as it stands. We need the section to expand downwards. If there was an option to be 5,000 mile away from the drum and still see the game I'd take it. Drums do not belong in football grounds. Same goes for 1/2 & 1/2 scarves.
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Post by Pilch on May 24, 2022 21:16:37 GMT 1
This is kind of related with to my previous post on this thread, if you assume that people would want to move to stand near the drum, with safe standing block 9 as good as sold out, they wouldn’t be able to as it stands. We need the section to expand downwards. If there was an option to be 5,000 mile away from the drum and still see the game I'd take it. Drums do not belong in football grounds. Same goes for 1/2 & 1/2 scarves. ifollow would do the trick
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Post by pughywasfree on May 25, 2022 9:58:27 GMT 1
This is kind of related with to my previous post on this thread, if you assume that people would want to move to stand near the drum, with safe standing block 9 as good as sold out, they wouldn’t be able to as it stands. We need the section to expand downwards. If there was an option to be 5,000 mile away from the drum and still see the game I'd take it. Drums do not belong in football grounds. Same goes for 1/2 & 1/2 scarves. Their is no doubt that drums improve the atmosphere, mainly because its easier to start chants and to keep everyone at the right pace so chants dont fizzle out.
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Post by Pilch on May 25, 2022 13:11:45 GMT 1
If there was an option to be 5,000 mile away from the drum and still see the game I'd take it. Drums do not belong in football grounds. Same goes for 1/2 & 1/2 scarves. Their is no doubt that drums improve the atmosphere, mainly because its easier to start chants and to keep everyone at the right pace so chants dont fizzle out. a single drum is a waste of time , what you need is 2 at least in sync with each other to give things a tribal feel check owd adam out and get a drum on order , crowd fund it maybe
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Post by gtismygod on May 25, 2022 14:30:20 GMT 1
Their is no doubt that drums improve the atmosphere, mainly because its easier to start chants and to keep everyone at the right pace so chants dont fizzle out. a single drum is a waste of time , what you need is 2 at least in sync with each other to give things a tribal feel check owd adam out and get a drum on order , crowd fund it maybe Strange post.
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Post by Pilch on May 25, 2022 16:18:29 GMT 1
a single drum is a waste of time , what you need is 2 at least in sync with each other to give things a tribal feel check owd adam out and get a drum on order , crowd fund it maybe Strange post. strange reply
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 17:23:38 GMT 1
If there was an option to be 5,000 mile away from the drum and still see the game I'd take it. Drums do not belong in football grounds. Same goes for 1/2 & 1/2 scarves. Their is no doubt that drums improve the atmosphere, mainly because its easier to start chants and to keep everyone at the right pace so chants dont fizzle out. Every doubt for me, just drown out the real singing.
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Post by Mortgagehound on May 25, 2022 17:54:24 GMT 1
I like the drummer and the flags.
I would move block 19 into Salop Leisure stand and thus save a huge amount of stress and money having to steward the area against the normal crew that spend the whole game goading the opposition supporters. Open Block 19 only for big sell out games. This could turn the Home end into a cauldron of Salop support.
Obviously need to provide endless supplies of free pies and drinks for the season ticket holders that become displaced in Salop Leisure end
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Post by chirkshrew on May 25, 2022 20:46:22 GMT 1
Yep, the 'blue wall', be great
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Post by bobbyc on May 25, 2022 20:53:18 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC.
I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off.
In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song.
Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing.
I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again.
Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 25, 2022 21:21:27 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off. In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song. Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing. I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again. Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm. THIS absolutely....
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on May 25, 2022 22:19:39 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off. In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song. Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing. I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again. Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm. Great post but like a bit of both myself, even though I am a definitely old school fan, but just think the drums get it going a bit when it gets a bit flat sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 9:12:00 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. It's an interesting post. I'm a bit conflicted when it comes to drums, personally I don't like them and wish we didn't have them, however I can't deny that they do improve the atmosphere and it's noticeable that the atmosphere in Block 19 went downhill when the drummer disappeared. I like what the South Stand are doing and I've never been into this South Stand v Block 19 stuff, my only criticism/observation is a bit similar to yours in that hearing the same old song for a long time can get tedious, I much prefer spontaneous chants and stuff which is relevant to going on, on the pitch. However I think a lot of the younger fans/ultra groups are influenced by ultra groups from abroad, I've been to a few games in Europe and it's fascinating as there's constant noise but it times it feels like they aren't even watching the game whereas traditionally in England songs/noise are influenced by what is going on the pitch. The obvious downside to the latter is if there's not a lot going on the pitch then the atmosphere is non existent and your reliant on a corner to get a few half hearted chants of 'Salop' or 'Come on You Blues'. I'm probably a bit of a dinosaur too but recognise that football culture in this country is changing and probably needs to because atmosphere's in this country generally are pathetic. Regarding the safe standing, given the choice the whole South Stand should become it as the curent set up still feels a bit tinpot to me and reminds me of Macclesfield, not a criticism of anyone at all but a few rows of seats and a few rows of standing looks a bit small time, the whole end being standing would be much better. However, there's no incentive for the club to do it so it won't be happening anytime soon.
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Post by block12massive on May 26, 2022 9:36:58 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off. In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song. Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing. I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again. Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm. Great post. Me and a friend formerly of this parish used to regularly travel away and would try and create these elaborate, witty chants on the expectation (and hope) that it would get the disapproving 'thumbs down' from the self-appointed 'ultras' usually at the back of the stand. Some caught on. Some didn't. I remember the brilliant Cristian Lopez chant (to the tune of Viva Ronaldo) at Peterborough away being unfairly shunned by the powers that be but in the end we remained undeterred and persisted anyway. His song was certainly more memorable than anything he did on the pitch for us.
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Post by pughywasfree on May 26, 2022 10:08:18 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off. In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song. Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing. I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again. Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm. Some good points. What I will say is the majority of the time we can have both. Our drummer in 19 usually drums along to others starting the song. Many times in the past people have struggled to keep the tempo of a chant which has meant it has fizzled out pretty quickly. We still have the odd new whitty chant here and there. I think having a drum is a good thing if used correctly and luckily in general our drummers do a great job.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 26, 2022 10:15:39 GMT 1
No question the atmosphere has been better post Covid and that’s largely down to the standing section gaining popularity so well done to those who are most instrumental in that.
There’s nothing worse than a poor drummer but a good drummer adds to the atmosphere.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 26, 2022 10:33:01 GMT 1
I was a supporter of safe standing, but I can't see the need to expand safe standing further down the south stand. We can't fill the Juan's we've got now. Also, you would uproot 100's of season ticket holders. There were quite a few miffed to install safe standing in the fust place. They had to move lower down. I'll bet they'd be pleased as punch to be moved again.
On the drums ishoo, I think they're a wonderful idea. But then again that's because I'm deaf as a post.
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Post by gtismygod on May 26, 2022 13:41:37 GMT 1
The reason it doesn’t sell out is because the only appealing blocks are 9 and 10 if you enjoy a bit of atmosphere.
Nobody wants to be tucked up in the corner of block 8, and blocks 11 and 12 are only about two rows deep. I’d rather stand in block 19 than blocks 8, 11 or 12.
Make the whole of the south stand safe standing and that small vocal point spread across the top of blocks 9 and 10 suddenly becomes the whole stand.
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Post by pughywasfree on May 26, 2022 18:29:24 GMT 1
The reason it doesn’t sell out is because the only appealing blocks are 9 and 10 if you enjoy a bit of atmosphere. Nobody wants to be tucked up in the corner of block 8, and blocks 11 and 12 are only about two rows deep. I’d rather stand in block 19 than blocks 8, 11 or 12. Make the whole of the south stand safe standing and that small vocal point spread across the top of blocks 9 and 10 suddenly becomes the whole stand. Could it not be the case then that the majority of the stand will be empty? Those sitting do tend to get involved in the chants, if they did not wish to be forced to stand then they might move to other parts of the ground.
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Post by davycrockett on May 27, 2022 7:47:13 GMT 1
The reason it doesn’t sell out is because the only appealing blocks are 9 and 10 if you enjoy a bit of atmosphere. Nobody wants to be tucked up in the corner of block 8, and blocks 11 and 12 are only about two rows deep. I’d rather stand in block 19 than blocks 8, 11 or 12. Make the whole of the south stand safe standing and that small vocal point spread across the top of blocks 9 and 10 suddenly becomes the whole stand. Unfortunately there had to be a compromise to accommodate the existing disabled platform. The drum should be positioned centrally in 10 for the atmosphere to spread but was felt a conflict…. And as you say the two rows in front of it aren’t popular unless it’s a big game
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 27, 2022 8:02:31 GMT 1
I admit that living in London I only get to away games in and around the capital these days, so I can’t comment about what it’s like in the south stand at home, but imho the drummer banging away at away games constantly has sucked the joy and spontaneity out of watching STFC. I miss the days when various people, some admittedly wittier than others, started songs on their own without this self-appointed conductor being in charge of everything. If something seemed ripe it rippled through the crowd organically and took off. In the quiet moments you’d have various wags giving their amusing thoughts and insights at the top of their voices. Sometimes if they captured a common thought a chuckle would ripple through the crowd, sometimes it would lead to a new song. Would the whole riverside have been singing “you should’ve saved your petrol” at Plymouth in that match in the early 00s fuel crisis while we were tonking them 4-0, if a drummer was instead blandly thudding out another rendition of the same old songs every team sings. Would we have all joined in the singing of Macy Gray songs at an opposition player (I forget exactly which team or when) sporting her haircut, if a drummer had been banging away at some other rhythm of his choosing. I’m not a total Luddite. I recognise footballs changed. My 15 year old nephew goes on about ‘ultras’ all the time rather than ‘fans’, and is obsessed with working out which team has ‘the best’ using some unfathomable arbitrary reckoning of which I have no understanding. He thinks drummers are the bees knees and was impressed with Shrewsbury’s when I took him to a match recently. So by all means let the drummer drum away for short periods of the game… but let us also have our spontaneity again. Like the old days ahhh, jumpers for goalposts, isn’t it? Mmm. The corrolary to this is that "the good old days" are always viewed through rose tinted glass and moments of genuine "terrace wit" were few and far between. If I'm honest I think the first aim should be loud, sustained support for the team. I think it is possible to have both (original content and "classic" songs/drums) but you can't have either without encouraging a decent portion of the crowd to be willing to join in first and that's what the drums and flags etc are doing. I used to be on the fence about drums but as the more sterile era of football has worn on I welcome and respect the efforts of those willing to actually try and put some effort in to create an atmosphere. Far too many people will stand in near silence for 85 minutes but deride any efforts from anyone else. This is ultimately where the west stand appears to have lost its way; too many people "too cool" to actually try anything different so those willing to put the effort in have understandably sacked it off. Not surprised to hear youngsters enjoy the ultras style. It's fun to be in a big crowd with drums, singing, bouncing, noise and yes the odd bit of smoke doesn't hurt either. I'd say let's just keep supporting the efforts of those trying to create that fun atmosphere and draw more people in so we can build it up before we start critiquing too much.
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Post by Valerioch on May 27, 2022 8:20:15 GMT 1
The reason it doesn’t sell out is because the only appealing blocks are 9 and 10 if you enjoy a bit of atmosphere. Nobody wants to be tucked up in the corner of block 8, and blocks 11 and 12 are only about two rows deep. I’d rather stand in block 19 than blocks 8, 11 or 12. Make the whole of the south stand safe standing and that small vocal point spread across the top of blocks 9 and 10 suddenly becomes the whole stand. Could it not be the case then that the majority of the stand will be empty? Those sitting do tend to get involved in the chants, if they did not wish to be forced to stand then they might move to other parts of the ground. There's no one size fits all. Some would move stands yes, but if my seat in the SS was ripped out for Safe Standing, I'd stay where I am and stand, rather than sit in the West or East, such is my desire to be behind the goal. Have never understood the tribalism and protectiveness of ones seat, but do understand some can't stand all game, or simply don't want to, as is their choice
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Post by block12massive on May 27, 2022 9:02:13 GMT 1
Could it not be the case then that the majority of the stand will be empty? Those sitting do tend to get involved in the chants, if they did not wish to be forced to stand then they might move to other parts of the ground. There's no one size fits all. Some would move stands yes, but if my seat in the SS was ripped out for Safe Standing, I'd stay where I am and stand, rather than sit in the West or East, such is my desire to be behind the goal. Have never understood the tribalism and protectiveness of ones seat, but do understand some can't stand all game, or simply don't want to, as is their choice Agreed. Inevitably people might have to be displaced for the sake of progress but they'll be offered the exact same type of blue (or amber) seat somewhere else in the ground. No biggy really. Although such is the seemingly divine right for fans to sit in their chosen seat, I can imagine the South Stand resembling the M62 with an undeterred row of seats smack bang in the middle like the farm that sits between the two carriageways.
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Post by block12massive on Jul 4, 2022 15:45:18 GMT 1
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Post by suttonshrew on Jul 4, 2022 15:48:54 GMT 1
yep finally got it over the line, culmination of 5 years of hard work but little old Shrewsbury led the way
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Post by WATR on Jul 4, 2022 16:35:24 GMT 1
Just heard the Sports Minister on the radio saying there will still be seats “so people can still sit down if they want to” so I presume this is going to be metal rails in front of plastic seats as opposed to proper safe standing like we have.
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