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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 11, 2021 23:57:15 GMT 1
Bad flipin' losers England. Taking their runners up medals off... Let's see what the night holds for England fans playing up.... And the Welsh players will be waiting forever to take their medals off, just not good enough to ever dream of a silver one at this level - they are just coming back from their holidays now, just as England are about to start on theirs. Proud of the England players, Wales over achieved once more but still went home 2 weeks ago.
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Post by welshdan on Jul 12, 2021 0:00:26 GMT 1
As you say Wales achieved what was expected. Likely struggle with key players ageing over coming years.
Just hope Southgate stays in charge for England. š
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Post by Northwest Shrew on Jul 12, 2021 0:18:38 GMT 1
Not sour grapes at all but Southgate has to be the luckiest manager ever? If he had sense heād step down now and be remembered as the āheroā who us to the the final of euros and semi worlds Not sure he has much tactical knowledge. Got the easiest run to World Cup semis ever known to man and had a good result against Germany in the euros and apart from that was easy street
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Post by theNOTORIOUSfbs on Jul 12, 2021 0:26:38 GMT 1
We're absolutely delirious
The Rashford penalty.
The hype etc
This was your best chance EVER to win something for the first time in 55-years..
And we had another howler. Rashford. Trying to be clever. Hilarious!
Gary Lineker. Rio Ferdinand etc It's not coming home.
Shaddap you face!
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Post by cmonsalop on Jul 12, 2021 0:44:34 GMT 1
Some people really need to learn how football banter is meant to be. All the people biting and throwing abuse just makes you look triggered. Notorious is clearly on the wind up and it somehow worked despite a great win! It's not banter, he doesn't have the wit or intelligence for that! It's just boring twisted, bitter ranting from a sad goat without a proper football team to support so he has to try and get his kicks trying to wind up fans of a decent team.
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Post by theNOTORIOUSfbs on Jul 12, 2021 1:03:28 GMT 1
Check your local Council website for collection arrangements... Haaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAA!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 6:28:51 GMT 1
I think this is spot on from Linekar. Its really, really difficult to criticise Southgate considering how close we came but after the Germany I said something didn't feel quite right and last night was the same, going forward we are lacking something.
Last night felt like it was the case of an early goal and we then just tried to defend it. If it had come off then it would have been tactical genius, but it didn't.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 12, 2021 7:24:00 GMT 1
This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I think the likes of Bellingham, Sancho, Sako, Foden and James would have been better served spending an extended time in the Under 21s and learning how to win tournaments. If they fail they learn from that failure and become better, if they win it shows that they are mentally ready for the step up to the full squad.
Leaving the final two penalties to two who would be ID checked if they tried to buy Red Bull was a daft decision. The Rashford miss put pressure on Sancho and his miss put immense pressure on Sako, which was too much to put on the shoulders of a teenager who isn't even guaranteed a start at Arsenal.
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Post by Northwest Shrew on Jul 12, 2021 7:54:48 GMT 1
I think this is spot on from Linekar. Its really, really difficult to criticise Southgate considering how close we came but after the Germany I said something didn't feel quite right and last night was the same, going forward we are lacking something. Last night felt like it was the case of an early goal and we then just tried to defend it. If it had come off then it would have been tactical genius, but it didn't. Spot on, exactly the same with salop over the last few years
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 12, 2021 7:57:48 GMT 1
The team did better than we expected and they seem a good bunch of lads lead by a decent and honourable man.
Yes, mistakes were made but hindsight is a wonderful thing where we can get every decision right.
The team us to the last game of a major tournament for the first time in the lives of many people, something to build on with such a young and inexperienced group. Ā Ā
So Iām disappointed but looking forward to the future of the national team with more optimism than for many decades.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 12, 2021 8:12:07 GMT 1
Average age of the squad is under 25 - we've a few more goes at this yet. Penalties is essentially a lottery so I'm not going to indulge in a post mortem over it nor am I going to have a pop at the team for being held to a draw by a side who'd similarly battled past Spain in the previous round and beat number 1 ranked Belgium over 90 minutes.
Think we just timed it slightly wrong last night. Looked like we were on top again towards the end of extra time having weathered the storm. Perhaps Grealish could have come on a bit sooner, who knows? Either way, credit where credit's due to Gareth and the team.
People will inevitably spin this as a negative but ultimately the tournament is a massive success for England as part of an impressive turnaround in form for the national team since 2016. I certainly won't be betting against more to come from this England squad.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jul 12, 2021 8:15:03 GMT 1
Looks like Raheem Sterling and Jack Grealish got some stick from Roy Keane on ITV for not stepping up and taking a penalty. Have to say I was surprised they didnāt take one of them.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 12, 2021 8:31:01 GMT 1
Not sour grapes at all but Southgate has to be the luckiest manager ever? If he had sense heād step down now and be remembered as the āheroā who us to the the final of euros and semi worlds Not sure he has much tactical knowledge. Got the easiest run to World Cup semis ever known to man and had a good result against Germany in the euros and apart from that was easy street To be replaced by whom exactly?? Need to be careful what we wish for, there has been literally dozens who havnt been good enough to get us to a final over the years. Doubt a replacement would be any better.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 12, 2021 8:39:27 GMT 1
This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I think the likes of Bellingham, Sancho, Sako, Foden and James would have been better served spending an extended time in the Under 21s and learning how to win tournaments. If they fail they learn from that failure and become better, if they win it shows that they are mentally ready for the step up to the full squad.
Leaving the final two penalties to two who would be ID checked if they tried to buy Red Bull was a daft decision. The Rashford miss put pressure on Sancho and his miss put immense pressure on Sako, which was too much to put on the shoulders of a teenager who isn't even guaranteed a start at Arsenal.
They would have been better spending more time in the first team last night too And anyone can miss a pen Especially if they try to be ultra cocky like rashford was
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 12, 2021 8:59:43 GMT 1
Looks like Raheem Sterling and Jack Grealish got some stick from Roy Keane on ITV for not stepping up and taking a penalty. Have to say I was surprised they didnāt take one of them. It was certainly a big ask to expect those young players to take the responsibility. A situation like that was crying out for experience and nerve.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2021 9:09:01 GMT 1
I agree with Roy Keane. It wasn't the best of decisions leaving penalties 3, 4 and 5 to 2 players who'd been on the pitch for 2 minutes plus a 19 year old. Sterling, Grealish and Shaw should surely have been considered. Possibly Phillips too.
As Harry Redknapp said on Radio 4, using Rashford and Sancho was like expecting a golfer to go out in the Open without a warm up and then expecting him to hit a perfect drive on the 1st. Players who'd been on the pitch for some time, had some touches of the ball, and experienced the atmosphere should have been given the responsibility by Southgate. Practising penalties in training is not the same thing at all as experiencing the pressures of taking one in match day situations.
That said, the best team won. We had a very poor 2nd half. Rice being replaced by Henderson didn't help. The latter contributed very little.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2021 9:40:13 GMT 1
On 67 minutes the Bonucci goal came. In the 2018 semi-final Croatia's came on 68 minutes.
Then, England had a good first half, retreated into a back five and allowed Croatiaās midfield back into the game. It seemed the same script was rerun last night.
Englandās game has been based on patient possession which allowed their wingers or full backs to get runs in. But deep into the game, no England striker had had a shot on goal. Saka and Sterling couldnāt get away and Chiellini was now winning every challenge on Kane.
Mancini was bold with his substitutes. He changed the entire front five, allowing them to maintain their pressing game. England tired and passing became sloppy; too many long balls to nowhere.
Italy controlled the game from half time.
Daily Mail.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 12, 2021 9:43:53 GMT 1
Looks like Raheem Sterling and Jack Grealish got some stick from Roy Keane on ITV for not stepping up and taking a penalty. Have to say I was surprised they didnāt take one of them. Same was said in the pub after the game last night. I suspect same was said in most every pub in England last night after the game. People also questioning bringing people on to take a penalty but I'm pretty sure we have seen that in the plenty of times in past, it's something managers do. Although perhaps better to give them just a minute or two before its asked of them. One or two were also mentioning that they didn't want any daft stalled run ups, they got that spot on considering the two of the three missed. Hopefully lessons learnt and we won't see that again. And just starting to read the papers now and from looking at the headline, Saka has never taken a penalty in a senior game (either in a game or a shootout). What were we thinking.
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 12, 2021 9:54:09 GMT 1
I'm going to buy some really nice cases of German beers It's come home for me I suppose theyāve sold out of Italian beer in Wrexham?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 12, 2021 9:56:23 GMT 1
Not sour grapes at all but Southgate has to be the luckiest manager ever? If he had sense heād step down now and be remembered as the āheroā who us to the the final of euros and semi worlds Not sure he has much tactical knowledge. Got the easiest run to World Cup semis ever known to man and had a good result against Germany in the euros and apart from that was easy street Well for sure he will be leading us to next years world cup. And I'm OK with that. He deserves another go. Still a relatively young manager with a young squad. I don't agree that England did better than expected this tournament or that this isn't a disappointment, mind. It is. Big time. With the number of games we did get to play at Wembley this was our best chance for a while. Plus as you say, we didn't have the hardest group and we were lucky enough to come across Ukraine in the last 16 (no disrespect to them but if we could have selected a last 16 tie, that would have been it). Good result against Germany of course which made my tournament but then the semi wasn't that convincing and we came up short last night by a fair bit (I think the second half possession stats were something like 70/20). He is a good man, clearly. He loves his country and you have no doubt that he is doing all that he can to see us succeed. But at the end of the day he is there to win trophies. And he was given probably the best chance to do so for any England manager perhaps since 1966, yet we came up short. I think next year will be his last chance.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 12, 2021 10:00:36 GMT 1
Bonucci and Chiellini are a combined age of 70. We should have been running the legs off them. To be fair they did try that but...
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jul 12, 2021 11:07:10 GMT 1
There's no reason for pessimism. Losing on penalties in a final in Italy is measurable progress from losing against Coratia in a semi-final. Big countries like England and Italy should be competing against each other in semi-finals and finals Nationals of countries that will never be in this position can scoff at our defeat but they are an irrelevance.
The group needs to learn from this. Including Southgate and his staff. The game was lost in the first half when Italy were rocked back by the early goal and the system we were playing. Their centre backs were put under so little pressure during the first half that they were able to concede yellow cards in the closing stages and didn't care. Southgate and his team needs to find the answers as to why and apply the lessons learned.
I hope that this is not about a "golden age" of players - we do have a mix of experienced players and young talent in the side - and indicates some deeper improvements in the game. It is interesting to note the number of players in the starting XI who have played in the EFL, and the player I have been most impressed with, Phillips, has probably started more games in the EFL than the EPL.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 12, 2021 11:07:44 GMT 1
On 67 minutes the Bonucci goal came. In the 2018 semi-final Croatia's came on 68 minutes. Then, England had a good first half, retreated into a back five and allowed Croatiaās midfield back into the game. It seemed the same script was rerun last night. Englandās game has been based on patient possession which allowed their wingers or full backs to get runs in. But deep into the game, no England striker had had a shot on goal. Saka and Sterling couldnāt get away and Chiellini was now winning every challenge on Kane. Mancini was bold with his substitutes. He changed the entire front five, allowing them to maintain their pressing game. England tired and passing became sloppy; too many long balls to nowhere. Italy controlled the game from half time. Daily Mail. And to think the Croatia game was 3 years ago to the day as well š„“š„“
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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2021 11:32:24 GMT 1
You just know that when young and relatively inexperienced players try to put a vastly experienced goalkeeper off by dancing and shimmying their way to the ball then hitting a powder puff shot, that it's going to end in failure.
Kane and Maguire on the other hand, chose their spot, strode up confidently and wellied the ball with all their might..........success.
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Post by vladimir on Jul 12, 2021 12:28:03 GMT 1
Negative tepid football is just about tolerable if you win.
It's utterly horrendous if you lose.
The leash shouldve come off these lads a long time ago imo. Gutted for Southgate but engraining your team to sit deep and soak up pressure is asking for trouble.
He looked and sounded a totally broken man and the pressure for the world Cup has just been ratcheted up one hundred fold.
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Post by salop27 on Jul 12, 2021 13:09:07 GMT 1
I 100% agree with sentiment that tactically we could have changed things before Italy equalised and it was depressingly similar to the Croatian game. Southgate has been a lucky manager in that we've had easy routes through to a major semi final and final but you'd of thought playing Iceland in the last Euros would have been an easy game. So hats off to him. However,maybe the FA could look to add to his coaching team so they become more proactive tactically? With World Cup Qualifying to come there's plenty of games to work on things and hopefully a couple of the younger players will have great PL seasons and step up another level for the World Cup.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jul 12, 2021 13:22:10 GMT 1
Southgate said he chose the 5 penalty takers based on how they did in training.
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Post by Valerioch on Jul 12, 2021 13:40:52 GMT 1
I 100% agree with sentiment that tactically we could have changed things before Italy equalised and it was depressingly similar to the Croatian game. Southgate has been a lucky manager in that we've had easy routes through to a major semi final and final but you'd of thought playing Iceland in the last Euros would have been an easy game. So hats off to him. However,maybe the FA could look to add to his coaching team so they become more proactive tactically? With World Cup Qualifying to come there's plenty of games to work on things and hopefully a couple of the younger players will have great PL seasons and step up another level for the World Cup. I agree in 2018, but beating Germany and Denmark (ranked 10th in the world) was not easy Itās been brilliant, with an all too familiar gutting ending
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 12, 2021 13:49:57 GMT 1
Southgate said he chose the 5 penalty takers based on how they did in training. Well even I know that what happens in training is completely different to the biggest arena they could play in with the largest and most partisan crowd hoping for something after 55 years. There just cannot be that pressure in training, there just canāt. we needed our most experienced, intimidating, players to take those penalties surely?
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jul 12, 2021 13:58:23 GMT 1
Southgate said he chose the 5 penalty takers based on how they did in training. Well even I Ā know that what happens in training is completely different to the biggest arena they could play in with the largest and most partisan crowd hoping for something after 55 years. There just cannot be that pressure in training, there just canāt. we needed our most experienced, intimidating, players to take those penalties surely? Yes I agree, you canāt replicate the pressure of a penalty shoot out in a final in training. Though it came off with Maguire who the best penalty of the lot. Shouldāve been Kane-Maguire-Rashford-Grealish-Sterling.
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