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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 27, 2021 14:14:46 GMT 1
thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?The degree to which it is a "fair" system is arguable of course, but, if memory serves me, it originated by the late Donald Dewar, and was set up to be anything but fair, insofar as it was intended to ensure that NO party could secure electoral dominance. If that fits in with your definition of "fair" that's fine. an even distribution of the votes were partys who can get 3 % of the vote and gets only one seats is not fair either and first past hte post leads to partys wining elections without a majority of the vote, having a party who does not reflect your views or values and spends millions on elections does not seem fair,so each to there own on what they think is fair.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Feb 27, 2021 14:22:41 GMT 1
Salmon plumbing the murky depths to get Sturgeon. It's all a bit fishy to me. Decent gag, but as I've pointed out on here before his name is Salmon d (with a D). Really? No!? I didn't realise. Obviously I knew, but Jamo was writing Salmon so I couldn't resist.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 27, 2021 14:23:59 GMT 1
The degree to which it is a "fair" system is arguable of course, but, if memory serves me, it originated by the late Donald Dewar, and was set up to be anything but fair, insofar as it was intended to ensure that NO party could secure electoral dominance. If that fits in with your definition of "fair" that's fine. an even distribution of the votes were partys who can get 3 % of the vote and gets only one seats is not fair either and first past hte post leads to partys wining elections without a majority of the vote, having a party who does not reflect your views or values and spends millions on elections does not seem fair,so each to there own on what they think is fair. Quite so.... Democracy is damnably difficult, which is one of the reasons, I presume, for some countries not even trying it!
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Post by tdk on Feb 27, 2021 20:57:52 GMT 1
'We cannot have liberty without democracy, or democracy without politics, or politics without politicians' Jonathon Sumption former Supreme Court Justice
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 27, 2021 21:55:27 GMT 1
'We cannot have liberty without democracy, or democracy without politics, or politics without politicians' Jonathon Sumption former Supreme Court Justice Lord Sumption is an eminently sensible chap even though his comment amounts to "a statement of the bleefin' obvious 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 27, 2021 23:45:51 GMT 1
Salmon plumbing the murky depths to get Sturgeon. It's all a bit fishy to me. Decent gag, but as I've pointed out on here before his name is Salmon d (with a D). I thought it was spelt Alex Slimeball, but perhaps I put too much faith in the negative spin from his one time best mates.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 28, 2021 11:12:47 GMT 1
www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-provided-no-proof-of-monstrous-plot-because-none-exists-euan-mccolm-3149403(you have to subscribe to this paper so i am unable to copy and past from an alternative view point) www.heraldscotland.com/news/19121278.alex-salmond-scotlands-leadership-failed/"ALEX Salmond has claimed the leadership of Scotland has failed the country and suggested it is not fit to lead it to independence.In his opening statement to the Holyrood inquiry into his legal fight with the Scottish Government, the former first minister said personnel, not institutions were at fault. He told MSPs: "The failures of leadership are many and obvious but not a single person has taken responsibility, not a single resignation or sacking, not even admonition. "The Scottish civil service has not failed, its leadership has. The Crown Office has not failed, its leadership has failed. Scotland hasn't failed, its leadership has failed." www.thenational.scot/news/19124123.survation-independence-poll-half-scots-support-yes-vote/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1403487/Nicola-sturgeon-independence-snp-latest-alex-salmond"A new opinion poll has found that 44 percent of people would vote to stay in the UK if a referendum were held tomorrow, with 43 percent saying they would vote to leave. Once ‘don’t know’ answers are removed, the two sides are deadlocked 50-50 on the constitutional question. It is a devastating setback for Ms Sturgeon after 22 consecutive polls showed a majority of Scots would vote for independence." The fall in support for the Nationalist cause appears to be linked to the Scottish Government’s handling of the Salmond affair. During a remarkable six-hour evidence session at Holyrood on Friday, the former first minister repeatedly said, under oath, that his successor had broken the ministerial code."
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 28, 2021 15:23:57 GMT 1
www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-provided-no-proof-of-monstrous-plot-because-none-exists-euan-mccolm-3149403(you have to subscribe to this paper so i am unable to copy and past from an alternative view point) www.heraldscotland.com/news/19121278.alex-salmond-scotlands-leadership-failed/"ALEX Salmond has claimed the leadership of Scotland has failed the country and suggested it is not fit to lead it to independence.In his opening statement to the Holyrood inquiry into his legal fight with the Scottish Government, the former first minister said personnel, not institutions were at fault. He told MSPs: "The failures of leadership are many and obvious but not a single person has taken responsibility, not a single resignation or sacking, not even admonition. "The Scottish civil service has not failed, its leadership has. The Crown Office has not failed, its leadership has failed. Scotland hasn't failed, its leadership has failed." www.thenational.scot/news/19124123.survation-independence-poll-half-scots-support-yes-vote/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1403487/Nicola-sturgeon-independence-snp-latest-alex-salmond"A new opinion poll has found that 44 percent of people would vote to stay in the UK if a referendum were held tomorrow, with 43 percent saying they would vote to leave. Once ‘don’t know’ answers are removed, the two sides are deadlocked 50-50 on the constitutional question. It is a devastating setback for Ms Sturgeon after 22 consecutive polls showed a majority of Scots would vote for independence." The fall in support for the Nationalist cause appears to be linked to the Scottish Government’s handling of the Salmond affair. During a remarkable six-hour evidence session at Holyrood on Friday, the former first minister repeatedly said, under oath, that his successor had broken the ministerial code." Irrespective of one's opinion of Mr Salmon, he produced a most impressive and formidable performance in front of the Committee, but in the absence of veritable proof, only time will tell whether it was merely a "performance". He really should consider the nuclear option of "publish and be damned" and thereby risking proceedings for Contempt of Court, assuming that Ms Sturgeon continues simply to deny. From South of the border this is good political theatre, but for the Scottish people, much less so. Incidentally, praying in aid a publication like the Daily Express is not a good idea - as a newspaper, it is at least as bad as the Guardian, or the Independent, in my judgement!
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 28, 2021 16:17:49 GMT 1
www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/alex-salmond-provided-no-proof-of-monstrous-plot-because-none-exists-euan-mccolm-3149403(you have to subscribe to this paper so i am unable to copy and past from an alternative view point) www.heraldscotland.com/news/19121278.alex-salmond-scotlands-leadership-failed/"ALEX Salmond has claimed the leadership of Scotland has failed the country and suggested it is not fit to lead it to independence.In his opening statement to the Holyrood inquiry into his legal fight with the Scottish Government, the former first minister said personnel, not institutions were at fault. He told MSPs: "The failures of leadership are many and obvious but not a single person has taken responsibility, not a single resignation or sacking, not even admonition. "The Scottish civil service has not failed, its leadership has. The Crown Office has not failed, its leadership has failed. Scotland hasn't failed, its leadership has failed." www.thenational.scot/news/19124123.survation-independence-poll-half-scots-support-yes-vote/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1403487/Nicola-sturgeon-independence-snp-latest-alex-salmond"A new opinion poll has found that 44 percent of people would vote to stay in the UK if a referendum were held tomorrow, with 43 percent saying they would vote to leave. Once ‘don’t know’ answers are removed, the two sides are deadlocked 50-50 on the constitutional question. It is a devastating setback for Ms Sturgeon after 22 consecutive polls showed a majority of Scots would vote for independence." The fall in support for the Nationalist cause appears to be linked to the Scottish Government’s handling of the Salmond affair. During a remarkable six-hour evidence session at Holyrood on Friday, the former first minister repeatedly said, under oath, that his successor had broken the ministerial code." Irrespective of one's opinion of Mr Salmon, he produced a most impressive and formidable performance in front of the Committee, but in the absence of veritable proof, only time will tell whether it was merely a "performance". He really should consider the nuclear option of "publish and be damned" and thereby risking proceedings for Contempt of Court, assuming that Ms Sturgeon continues simply to deny. From South of the border this is good political theatre, but for the Scottish people, much less so. Incidentally, praying in aid a publication like the Daily Express is not a good idea - as a newspaper, it is at least as bad as the Guardian, or the Independent, in my judgement! i was rather suprised that was a slight drop in voting intentions for the scottish independance , i cant see the relevance on voting for independance has on what the SNP leadership and some of the party did or did not do to salmond
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 28, 2021 16:36:18 GMT 1
Irrespective of one's opinion of Mr Salmon, he produced a most impressive and formidable performance in front of the Committee, but in the absence of veritable proof, only time will tell whether it was merely a "performance". He really should consider the nuclear option of "publish and be damned" and thereby risking proceedings for Contempt of Court, assuming that Ms Sturgeon continues simply to deny. From South of the border this is good political theatre, but for the Scottish people, much less so. Incidentally, praying in aid a publication like the Daily Express is not a good idea - as a newspaper, it is at least as bad as the Guardian, or the Independent, in my judgement! i was rather suprised that was a slight drop in voting intentions for the scottish independance , i cant see the relevance on voting for independance has on what the SNP leadership and some of the party did or did not do to salmond Ah, but I can: Mr Salmond's point is that, by its alleged misbehaviour towards him, makes the SNP,under its current leadership, unfit to govern; OK, I accept that it is HE who wants to lead an SNP government of an independent Scotland, and this whole thing could be viewed through the standard prism of yet another naked political power-play, but he does insist on raising the bar, so I'm not too sure.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 1, 2021 11:22:23 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9310503/Scottish-Tories-force-no-confidence-vote-SNPs-Deputy-Minister-John-Swinney.html"Scotland's Deputy First Minister will face a motion of no confidence if ministers continue to refuse to publish vital legal advice they obtained in their battle with Alex Salmond. So far, John Swinney and the Scottish Government have failed to hand over the advice given to them over their botched probe into harassment complaints against the former First Minister. But yesterday, MSPs issued a fresh demand for the documents, which will reveal when ministers were first warned they would lose the legal challenge he launched against them." Leader Douglas Ross said: 'We are giving the Scottish Government one last chance to be transparent and respect the will of the Scottish parliament.'Twice, opposition parties united to call for the legal advice to be released. The cross-party Holyrood committee have pleaded with the Government to produce it.'The Government said they would listen but they clearly have not. The legal advice remains hidden. 'This evidence is crucial to uncovering the specific mistakes that lost more than £500,000 of taxpayers' money and let the women at the heart of this investigation down.' The ultimatum came after Mr Salmond warned that, if the case was pursued with Nicola Sturgeon's knowledge against advice, this would be a breach of the ministerial code. Ministers have been accused of attempting to obstruct the Holyrood inquiry into the affair, which left taxpayers with a bill of more than £500,000 paid out to Mr Salmond to cover his legal fees. The Scottish parliament has twice voted to compel the release of the advice ministers and officials obtained during the judicial review brought about by the former SNP leader. However, they have so far refused to do so, citing legal privilege. In January 2019, the Government was forced to admit it had acted unlawfully and its investigation had been 'tainted by apparent bias' after Mr Salmond successfully challenged its investigation into complaints against him. The outcome of the probe was set aside when it emerged that the investigating officer had prior contact with two women who made allegations against Mr Salmond. It was previously revealed that the issue had been identified months before the Government conceded."
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 2, 2021 10:35:12 GMT 1
"What we've got is political corruption' | Former SNP deputy on Salmond inquiry" a daming interview from Jim Sillars former deputy leader of the SNP
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Post by Mortgagehound on Mar 2, 2021 21:04:13 GMT 1
Suddenly looking rather bad for the first minister after legal advice published
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 2, 2021 21:16:15 GMT 1
i dont know enough about the code of conduct to know if this is a resgning matter and modern politicians rarely resign and most are dragged screaming from power. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9317999/Nicola-Sturgeon-facing-demands-RESIGN-Minister-Alex-Salmond-sex-abuse-case.html"Nicola Sturgeon is tonight facing demands to resign as Scotland's First Minister over her handling of the Alex Salmond sexual harassment case after bombshell legal advice appeared to blow holes in her defence. The Scottish Conservatives said they would table a confidence vote in the SNP leader after the documents were published on the eve of her appearance at a hearing into the row over allegations levelled at her predecessor. They showed that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP administration knew that its efforts to resist a judicial review brought by Mr Salmond in 2018 over the handling of complaints against him - over which he was exonerated - were likely to fail. But they went ahead with the court case anyway and it ended up with Mr Salmond being awarded more than £600,000 in costs and damages. There have been allegations that failing to heed the opinions of lawyers would have amounted to a breach of the ministerial code, a potential resignation matter. Evidence from two former SNP staff also raise doubts about Ms Sturgeon's version of events. Ms Sturgeon has denied breaking the ministerial code and said she will give her full rebuttal tomorrow. Tonight Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross said: 'There is no longer any doubt that Nicola Sturgeon lied to the Scottish Parliament and broke the ministerial code on numerous counts. 'No First Minister can be allowed to mislead the Scottish people and continue in office, especially when they have tried to cover up the truth and abused the power of their office in the process. 'The weight of the evidence is overwhelming. Nicola Sturgeon must resign. 'No evidence she can provide tomorrow will counter the claims of numerous witnesses or refute that her government ignored the legal advice for months and lost more than £500,000 of taxpayers' money in the process. 'We will be submitting a Vote of No Confidence in the First Minister.'The Scottish Tories have accused Ms Sturgeon of breaching the ministerial code up to 38 times during the row. A Conservative dossier highlights dozens of instances when they say Ms Sturgeon appears to have broken the ministerial code. They include accusations of repeatedly misleading the Scottish Parliament about when she first knew of the allegations against Mr Salmond, delaying settling the judicial review despite legal advice, and meeting Mr Salmond on government business without any officials present or records being taken."
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 3, 2021 8:20:22 GMT 1
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Post by Mr Cornflakes on Mar 3, 2021 11:10:51 GMT 1
I lost all respect for Jo Swinson after finding out about her habit of attacking squirrels.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 3, 2021 12:19:03 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 3, 2021 14:55:36 GMT 1
Sturgeons answeres often include, "to the best of my knowledge, I'm not 100% sure, if I remember correctly," www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9320623/Nicola-Sturgeon-claims-ignorance-THIRTY-sexual-harassment-complaints.html"Nicola Sturgeon claims ignorance of THIRTY sexual harassment complaints against five SNP ministers as she squirms under questioning at Salmond hearing,The allegations were made by members of a public sector union over the last ten years, covering the period when Ms Sturgeon was deputy first minister, up to 2014, before she over from Mr Salmond as first minister." www.heraldscotland.com/news/19130431.sturgeon-facing-calls-quit-salmond-witnesses-challenge-evidence/NICOLA Sturgeon is facing calls for resign after two senior SNP figures directly contradicted her account of meetings at the heart of claims she lied to parliament. In a potentially devastating development for the First Minister, the pair of former special advisers challenged her version of two 2018 meetings about sexual misconduct claims involving Alex Salmond. They also said a Scottish Government official had given the confidential name of a complainer against Mr Salmond to one of his associates. One eye witness, an advocate, claimed Ms Sturgeon offered to intervene in a Government investigation of the claims, something she has denied to parliament." The testimony supports Mr Salmond’s allegation that Ms Sturgeon broke the ministerial code by misleading MSPs, a resignation offence which she denies.
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Post by tdk on Mar 3, 2021 15:09:29 GMT 1
I watched a little of the inquiry this morning. The questioner seems pretty unconvinced as well. I think that a lot of mud will stick to her, but she'll do a Donald and refuse to go.
Priti Patel got away with it
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 3, 2021 15:16:51 GMT 1
I watched a little of the inquiry this morning. The questioner seems pretty unconvinced as well. I think that a lot of mud will stick to her, but she'll do a Donald and refuse to go. Priti Patel got away with it im struggling with her claim as deputy first minister she knew nothing about 30 complainst of sexual harassment i dont see her going of her own volition when it comes to a vote of no confidence the SNP have the majority, unless some in her party vote against her
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Post by jamo on Mar 3, 2021 15:41:38 GMT 1
I watched a little of the inquiry this morning. The questioner seems pretty unconvinced as well. I think that a lot of mud will stick to her, but she'll do a Donald and refuse to go. Priti Patel got away with it Agree with this. It’s all very murky and claim and counterclaim. No doubt the pressure on Sturgeon will mount in the coming days and she will do well to hang onto office, but she is a political street fighter and has a strong support base inside and outside of the Scottish parliament so she may well just be able to ride this storm out.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 3, 2021 17:22:39 GMT 1
I watched a little of the inquiry this morning. The questioner seems pretty unconvinced as well. I think that a lot of mud will stick to her, but she'll do a Donald and refuse to go. Priti Patel got away with it Agree with this. It’s all very murky and claim and counterclaim. No doubt the pressure on Sturgeon will mount in the coming days and she will do well to hang onto office, but she is a political street fighter and has a strong support base inside and outside of the Scottish parliament so she may well just be able to ride this storm out. i think she will as well but " two senior SNP figures directly contradicted her account of meetings at the heart of claims she lied to parliament." and that is a breach of the ministerial rules plus this ; www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1404694/SNP-news-nicola-sturgeon-Alex-Salmond-Scottish-Conservatives-latest"Nicola Sturgeon 'broke' ministerial code 38 times before Alex Salmond inquiry showdown NICOLA STURGEON has been accused of breaking ministerial rules nearly 40 times ahead of her Salmond inquiry showdown tomorrow."
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 4, 2021 11:07:32 GMT 1
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alex-salmond-inquiry-nicola-sturgeons-evidence-turned-into-political-theatre-by-conservatives-warns-patrick-harvie-3153969"The co-leader of the Scottish Green Party has accused the Conservatives of “opportunistic political theatre” after they called for a vote of no confidence in the First Minister before even hearing the evidence she gave to the inquiry into sexual harassment claims against Alex Salmond" www.heraldscotland.com/news/19134917.alex-salmond-inquiry-committee-member-murdo-fraser-says-sturgeon-claims-untrue/"Nicola Sturgeon broke the ministerial code and should step down, a member of the committee investigating the handling of harassment claims into former First Minister Alex Salmond has said. Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said that he believes that statements made by Ms Sturgeon during her lengthy evidence session on Wednesday were "untrue" and that she previously misled the Scottish Parliament. " www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeons-special-advisers-accused-of-pumping-out-blatant-propaganda-3135596Special advisers to Nicola Sturgeon have been accused of breaching the Scottish Government’s code of conduct due to partisan social media posts. The First Minister has been urged to act by the Scottish Conservatives after the party submitted a dossier of evidence they claim shows seven special advisers breaking the rules set out in the code of conduct. Among the tweets highlighted in the submission include strong political statements on favouring staying in the European Union, criticising UK Government policy, a wish to rid Scotland of "the Tories”, and one tweet labelling the Scottish Conservatives “far right”. The new dossier comes after Douglas Ross' party accused Ms Sturgeon’s chief of staff Liz Lloyd of having “more than 100” alleged breaches of the civil service code of conduct following a tweet where she was critical of Boris Johnson’s visit to Scotland in January – a post she later deleted."
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Post by northwestman on Mar 4, 2021 12:52:06 GMT 1
Is Sturgeon going to get away with this by virtue of having a very selective memory and slagging off Salmond?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 4, 2021 13:38:48 GMT 1
Is Sturgeon going to get away with this by virtue of having a very selective memory and slagging off Salmond? from specator tv which gives you the rational behind the crowns intervention and subsucuent redactions of parts of samonds testimony " david Newton 6 days ago" posts this in responce to the programe "The Crown Office's actions over censoring the version on the Scottish Parliament website have definitively shown that Salmond's allegations are true. Those actions alone prove he is correct as they are precisely what he is accusing them of." (Lady Dorrian is the Lord Justice Clerk, the second most senior judicial post in Scotland. An advocate since 1981, she has been a judge since 2002. After three years as a temporary judge, she became a Judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland in 2005. Wikipedia) ruled on the case were the spectator whent to court (https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/spectator-magazine-wins-legal-challenge-could-allow-alex-salmond-inquiry-publish-crucial-evidence-3131868) after this the crown office went to parliment to redacte parts of this evidence prior to it been submited to the commitee, all of which is covewred in this link to the you tube. "Eleanor Crawford 6 days ago posts this in responce to the programe Thank you to the Spectator for fighting the injustice of the Scottish government. The crown office is a bigger disappointment to find that they tried again to close down the evidence of Alex Salmond by the Crown Office the man who advises the SNP is the man closing down AS he is also an SNP advisor and supporter .goes against the high court & Lady Dorian. More evidence that the devolution of parliament in Scotland has become a farce and dangerous"
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Post by servernaside on Mar 5, 2021 20:45:09 GMT 1
Fifty times during her questioning in the Scottish parliament, Sturgeon answered..... 'I don't know' or 'I don't recall'.
I don't know if she's fit to be First Minister.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 5, 2021 21:45:47 GMT 1
Fifty times during her questioning in the Scottish parliament, Sturgeon answered..... 'I don't know' or 'I don't recall'. I don't know if she's fit to be First Minister. im impressed you kept count
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 5, 2021 21:51:10 GMT 1
news.stv.tv/politics/what-we-know-about-the-alex-salmond-holyrood-inquiry?top"Why did Salmond take legal action? The former first minister did not feel his treatment by the Scottish Government was fair. It was later found that the lead investigator of the complaints had prior contact with some of the female complainers, with Judge Lord Pentland saying the investigation was “tainted with apparent bias”. How has the inquiry gone so far? The committee has repeatedly voiced frustration with how slow the handing over of evidence has been from a number of parties."
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 5, 2021 21:55:08 GMT 1
it is a bit hard to land a knock out blow when you have sturegon saying" i dont know " and " I dont recall" for lots of the questions www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56263825"Analysis box by Nick Eardley, political correspondent The view in Nicola Sturgeon's team tonight is there was no knock-out blow - no truly dreadful moment for the first minister. They seem pretty happy with her performance in eight long hours of questions. There are still outstanding questions; the most significant of which is whether Ms Sturgeon broke the ministerial code. The committee will provide an answer - but perhaps more significant is the view of James Hamilton, the Irish lawyer heading a separate inquiry into the issue. The view in Bute House is that his report will be hard to ignore. The political debate over this is likely to continue in the coming days too. Ms Sturgeon's political opponents still believe her account is muddled and inconsistent. Then there's Alex Salmond. He's sent documents to the committee today to support his evidence last week. Might we hear more from him in the coming days?"
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 5, 2021 21:55:57 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56263825"What has the reaction been? Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross claimed that the abiding memory of the evidence session would be Ms Sturgeon repeatedly saying "I can't recall". He added: "She dodged and evaded almost every difficult question. The first minister vividly remembers the details she believes exonerate her, then forgets entirely anything that damages her." Scottish Labour MSP Jackie Baillie, who sits on the committee, said "serious questions remain" about the first minister's conduct. She added: "Quite frankly we are not much further forward in understanding her role in this catastrophic failure of the Scottish government. "Most galling of all was the first minister's complete failure to understand the obstruction that this Committee has faced and continues to face. "The first minister promised the committee that it would receive all the information that it needed - this now sounds like a bad joke."
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