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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 14:27:46 GMT 1
Sturgeon is a formidable politician, if she only put as much effort into running Scotland as she does for Independence, then perhaps Scotland would not have the worst drug issue in Europe, the worst Education System, the worst Health issues in the UK. If only!!
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Post by jamo on Feb 26, 2021 14:40:30 GMT 1
Sturgeon is a formidable politician, if she only put as much effort into running Scotland as she does for Independence, then perhaps Scotland would not have the worst drug issue in Europe, the worst Education System, the worst Health issues in the UK. If only!! Agreed, as a leader of a party- whether in power or otherwise, she is head and shoulders above her peers but that of course does not protect her from the challenges that government brings and the mistakes to be made. Obviously for the SNP independence is the goal and this may detract them from the day to day governance. Do you think this to be a death knell for independence. I am unsure (although similar to you I think Ireland will beat them to it )
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2021 14:43:10 GMT 1
Met Salmond once when he was MP of Buchan and Banff. Bloke was an @rse. Anyway, carry on. Confess I've taken no interest in this story & I'm not sure whether I ever will. Is it just real life politics and gossip or is there something serious in it? Genuinely don't know. Salmond's credibility drained away before my eyes when I saw him fawning over Donald Trump in the brilliant 2011 documentary "You've Been Trumped", about the monster's (almost literal) steamrollering of local residents and objectors to his hideous Aberdeenshire golf courses. I haven't seen its 2014 sequel, "A Dangerous Game", but believe it also does Salmond no favours. At least he had the decency to say he later regretted it, although it'd require the thickest of skins (and brains) not to. I agree with Jamo, Sturgeon has been the most impressive leader in British politics of recent years. This has nothing to do with whatever's going on of course, but that's where I'd be starting from.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 26, 2021 14:46:28 GMT 1
The SNP are hardly what you could describe as left wing, Liberal at best, but they are a bit of a one trick pony and they do play that trick very well. The dislike of the Tory party in most of Scotland is obvious, but they still managed to get 6 MPs with only 25% of the vote. In most of the constituencies that returned a Tory MP the margin of victory was negligible and without the split in the anti-Tory vote they would have lost the seat.
The only way Labour can ever hope to be returned to power is to come to arrangements with parties like the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and yes, even the LibDems to stand down in certain constituencies in order to unseat the Tories that are there now. Even though Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg would still be quite safe in their Tory heartland seats, there are many Tory MPs that would be alarmed at the thought of going into an election against a concerted effort from all the other parties.
Thanks for that, Neil. I can't fully go along with the first line of your response, but that apart, I now understand what you are getting at. 👍👍 As to your possible solutions for Labour getting back into power, all fine and dandy in principle, but any "arrangements" with other parties would necessarily require a dilution of each party's "non-negotiable" principles, and we are all well-aware how much fun that can be..... the merging of ideologies is never straightforward! I guess that, were I a member of the Labour Party, my approach would be too pragmatic for most, as I would be guided, above pretty well all other issues, by my desire to see a Labour government; it all boils down to electability, which I think you and I have discussed in the past As a side issue, I feel a tad uncomfortable with a "ganging-up" approach - I have never, or would ever, cast my vote negatively (simply to prevent another party winning, as opposed to wanting another party to win)..... If the result of such naive simplicity is the election of a Labour government, then so be it.....I do understand your quandary though..... good luck (but not too much of it lol) i preffer proportional representation especial when in Scotland you the SNP tht dominate the scene, were it must feel like a wasted vote if you are not a fan of the SNP as they have won a majority for some time and in the uk it is a two horse race . some partys can pick up a significant amount of votes natiobally and still not get a single mp for example the green party had 2.3 of the countrys vote in the last election but only got one MP elected.in the last scottish parliement the SNP won 45% of the vote but managed to win 48 out of the 59 seats the combined vote for the labour party and conservatives was only 44,000 less but won a lot less seats
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 14:46:45 GMT 1
Sturgeon is a formidable politician, if she only put as much effort into running Scotland as she does for Independence, then perhaps Scotland would not have the worst drug issue in Europe, the worst Education System, the worst Health issues in the UK. If only!! Agreed, as a leader of a party- whether in power or otherwise, she is head and shoulders above her peers but that of course does not protect her from the challenges that government brings and the mistakes to be made. Obviously for the SNP independence is the goal and this may detract them from the day to day governance. Do you think this to be a death knell for independence. I am unsure (although similar to you I think Ireland will beat them to it ) To be fair, Scottish independence is now boring me, I love Scotland, as a place, like England it has the odd s**thole, and Glasgow / Greenock well outstrip that and are head and shoulders above in that department, it also has some lovely people. Burt they can be extremely racist towards the English> i worked up there for a few weeks and was astonished at that side. Getting to the point that of let them get their independence. Then see how the SNP actually manage things. Not sure if its true, and cannot be arsed to check, but its also alleged that Little Jimmy Crankie has ordered the flying of the EU Flag.... not much in the press about that though.
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 26, 2021 14:46:45 GMT 1
My take on this is that it's a mess. I don't have access to more information than anyone else. It's obviously headline news in Scotland, but with lockdown it's quite hard to gauge the opinions of friends and colleagues. It may be hard to believe this 'down south', but my experience is that people in Scotland have been quite reserved with their public views on the votes for independence and leaving the EU. The whole independence referendum was conducted in a fairly civil manner in Scotland (certainly when compared to the UK-wide fiasco surrounding the 'Brexit' referendum). As for the current issues between Sturgeon & Salmond - they can't both be telling the truth (although I guess they could both be lying). Sturgeon is adamant that Salmond has produced no proof to back his accusations and the Crown Office's justification for wanting to redact his statements (to protect the anonymity of whistle-blowers, and thus avert a contempt of court charge) seems plausible to me. Despite Martinshrew's opinion, the polls still show massive support for Sturgeon ( I would be VERY interested to know who he thinks is a better political leader in the UK at the moment) and my feeling is that most people don't want to believe that she has acted duplicitously in this matter. Conversely, Salmond is seen by many as a bit 'sleazy', not helped by his admissions of infidelity during his recent court case (largely overlooked by the media as not that newsworthy, I guess following in the footsteps of Trump and Johnson). On top of this all the opposition parties are (naturally) trying to make political capital from the side-lines, ahead of an election in May where they currently trail the SNP by a long, long way. My best guess is that Sturgeon will survive, Salmond will continue to protest his innocence and the SNP will increase it's majority in the next Scottish parliament. As someone else has already observed 'a week is a long time in politics' and proceedings later today could be quite interesting, but I think that Sturgeon's subsequent evidence to the inquiry, where she will have the chance to rebut anything Salmond says, will probably be a more defining moment. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, my view is that Sturgeon may be manoeuvred into a position whereby resignation is her only real option, although you make fair point in that she will at least have 4 of 5 days to prepare a response after Salmon has addressed the committee this afternoon, that has to be to her advantage. Wherever this falls, and there will probably be no personal winners, do you see this as being a massive fillip for the continuance of The Union ? Not sure TBH. If Sturgeon is found to have been complicit and forced to resign then yes, probably. But then again, if there is any hint that the UK government or the Tories are behind her downfall then it could easily play the other way. Unless you've lived in Scotland it's difficult to comprehend the deep-seated dislike of Westminster and the Conservatives (seen as the establishment party) by a large percentage of Scots. Someone said earlier in the thread that the Scots have long memories - that is certainly true and they are also a very proud nation, but there is a lovely Doric word which best describes them in my experience of living here for 40 years - ' Thran'.
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 26, 2021 15:02:33 GMT 1
Agreed, as a leader of a party- whether in power or otherwise, she is head and shoulders above her peers but that of course does not protect her from the challenges that government brings and the mistakes to be made. Obviously for the SNP independence is the goal and this may detract them from the day to day governance. Do you think this to be a death knell for independence. I am unsure (although similar to you I think Ireland will beat them to it ) To be fair, Scottish independence is now boring me, I love Scotland, as a place, like England it has the odd s**thole, and Glasgow / Greenock well outstrip that and are head and shoulders above in that department, it also has some lovely people. Burt they can be extremely racist towards the English> i worked up there for a few weeks and was astonished at that side. Getting to the point that of let them get their independence. Then see how the SNP actually manage things. Not sure if its true, and cannot be arsed to check, but its also alleged that Little Jimmy Crankie has ordered the flying of the EU Flag.... not much in the press about that though. So, you complain about Scots racism towards the English but then refer to Scotland as 'up there' and describe its leader (who was elected by a huge margin and who all the polls suggest has the support of the majority of the electorate) as 'Jimmie Crankie'! Let he who is without sin and all that. My personal experience of having lived here for many years is that yes, there are some people who have racist tendencies, but then again probably no more than in England (actually less if anything). The BNP never gained any real traction in Scotland, nor the NF or any of the other fringe parties who attract such people (e.g. Nigel Farage's many faces). I think I can see the independence argument from both sides, and I have to say I find the arrogance of people who refer to England and English when they actually mean the UK and British very, very wearing. It's probably this arrogance which drives the move to independence more than anything else. That, and those people who say 'let them have their independence and see what a mess they make of it' - on the assumption that it is somehow England's (or the UK's) to 'give'. This is the type of thing that riles people most on a daily basis.
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 26, 2021 15:15:28 GMT 1
Thanks for that, Neil. I can't fully go along with the first line of your response, but that apart, I now understand what you are getting at. 👍👍 As to your possible solutions for Labour getting back into power, all fine and dandy in principle, but any "arrangements" with other parties would necessarily require a dilution of each party's "non-negotiable" principles, and we are all well-aware how much fun that can be..... the merging of ideologies is never straightforward! I guess that, were I a member of the Labour Party, my approach would be too pragmatic for most, as I would be guided, above pretty well all other issues, by my desire to see a Labour government; it all boils down to electability, which I think you and I have discussed in the past As a side issue, I feel a tad uncomfortable with a "ganging-up" approach - I have never, or would ever, cast my vote negatively (simply to prevent another party winning, as opposed to wanting another party to win)..... If the result of such naive simplicity is the election of a Labour government, then so be it.....I do understand your quandary though..... good luck (but not too much of it lol) i preffer proportional representation especial when in Scotland you the SNP tht dominate the scene, were it must feel like a wasted vote if you are not a fan of the SNP as they have won a majority for some time and in the uk it is a two horse race . some partys can pick up a significant amount of votes natiobally and still not get a single mp for example the green party had 2.3 of the countrys vote in the last election but only got one MP elected.in the last scottish parliement the SNP won 45% of the vote but managed to win 48 out of the 59 seats the combined vote for the labour party and conservatives was only 44,000 less but won a lot less seats So, more like the Scottish Parliament voting system, which combines retaining local members with an element of PR for fairness. www.parliament.scot/gd/visitandlearn/Education/16285.aspx
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 26, 2021 15:20:15 GMT 1
i preffer proportional representation especial when in Scotland you the SNP tht dominate the scene, were it must feel like a wasted vote if you are not a fan of the SNP as they have won a majority for some time and in the uk it is a two horse race . some partys can pick up a significant amount of votes natiobally and still not get a single mp for example the green party had 2.3 of the countrys vote in the last election but only got one MP elected.in the last scottish parliement the SNP won 45% of the vote but managed to win 48 out of the 59 seats the combined vote for the labour party and conservatives was only 44,000 less but won a lot less seats So, more like the Scottish Parliament voting system, which combines retaining local members with an element of PR for fairness. www.parliament.scot/gd/visitandlearn/Education/16285.aspx thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 26, 2021 15:24:01 GMT 1
Agreed, as a leader of a party- whether in power or otherwise, she is head and shoulders above her peers but that of course does not protect her from the challenges that government brings and the mistakes to be made. Obviously for the SNP independence is the goal and this may detract them from the day to day governance. Do you think this to be a death knell for independence. I am unsure (although similar to you I think Ireland will beat them to it ) To be fair, Scottish independence is now boring me, I love Scotland, as a place, like England it has the odd s**thole, and Glasgow / Greenock well outstrip that and are head and shoulders above in that department, it also has some lovely people. Burt they can be extremely racist towards the English> i worked up there for a few weeks and was astonished at that side. Getting to the point that of let them get their independence. Then see how the SNP actually manage things. Not sure if its true, and cannot be arsed to check, but its also alleged that Little Jimmy Crankie has ordered the flying of the EU Flag.... not much in the press about that though. On the specific point of flying the EU flag - maybe it's connected to the fact that 62% of voters in Scotland were in favour of staying in the EU? The Scottish government seem to be reflecting the views of their electorate in demonstrating friendship towards the EU. Is this wrong or it is this another thing the English majority wishes to impose on another nation? (p.s. as someone who has relatives living in Holland I'm strongly pro EU and quite like the fact Scotland flying their flag seems to upset you).
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 26, 2021 15:36:46 GMT 1
thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?I don't think you understand the make-up of the Scottish Parliament. It comprises 73 directly elected members, of which the SNP gained 59. HOWEVER, there are a further 56 seats allocated from party lists on a PR basis to balance the representation. Of these, the Tories got 24 and Labour 21 at the last election. The final number of seats for all parties are within about 4% of the number of votes received. For example the SNP gained 46.5% of the popular vote and have just under half of the seats (63 out of 129). Now, maybe you could address your concerns to the election of the UK government? Please tell me why the Tories enjoy overall power in the UK from just 43.6% of the votes at the last election? Thanks in advance.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 26, 2021 16:06:01 GMT 1
thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?I don't think you understand the make-up of the Scottish Parliament. It comprises 73 directly elected members, of which the SNP gained 59. HOWEVER, there are a further 56 seats allocated from party lists on a PR basis to balance the representation. Of these, the Tories got 24 and Labour 21 at the last election. The final number of seats for all parties are within about 4% of the number of votes received. For example the SNP gained 46.5% of the popular vote and have just under half of the seats (63 out of 129). Now, maybe you could address your concerns to the election of the UK government? Please tell me why the Tories enjoy overall power in the UK from just 43.6% of the votes at the last election? Thanks in advance. thanks for taking the time to answer my question, this was a post about a scottish issue hence my question about the scottish system , it was a genuine question to understand the scottish system and only that.so thanks for your help in this and i read the link so clearly i will need to read it again in light of your helpfull coments. as for the uk system iv held the same views consistently about the one past the post system and will raise my views on this on any relevent post
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 16:08:09 GMT 1
To be fair, Scottish independence is now boring me, I love Scotland, as a place, like England it has the odd s**thole, and Glasgow / Greenock well outstrip that and are head and shoulders above in that department, it also has some lovely people. Burt they can be extremely racist towards the English> i worked up there for a few weeks and was astonished at that side. Getting to the point that of let them get their independence. Then see how the SNP actually manage things. Not sure if its true, and cannot be arsed to check, but its also alleged that Little Jimmy Crankie has ordered the flying of the EU Flag.... not much in the press about that though. So, you complain about Scots racism towards the English but then refer to Scotland as 'up there' and describe its leader (who was elected by a huge margin and who all the polls suggest has the support of the majority of the electorate) as 'Jimmie Crankie'! Let he who is without sin and all that. My personal experience of having lived here for many years is that yes, there are some people who have racist tendencies, but then again probably no more than in England (actually less if anything). The BNP never gained any real traction in Scotland, nor the NF or any of the other fringe parties who attract such people (e.g. Nigel Farage's many faces). I think I can see the independence argument from both sides, and I have to say I find the arrogance of people who refer to England and English when they actually mean the UK and British very, very wearing. It's probably this arrogance which drives the move to independence more than anything else. That, and those people who say 'let them have their independence and see what a mess they make of it' - on the assumption that it is somehow England's (or the UK's) to 'give'. This is the type of thing that riles people most on a daily basis. I am amazed how you can link the term up there as racist, same as I refer to London as down there, Newcastle as up there.... it’s purely a geographical identification of North and South, so referring to Scotland as up there, is only done as it’s North of Market Drayton
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 26, 2021 16:14:11 GMT 1
thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?I don't think you understand the make-up of the Scottish Parliament. It comprises 73 directly elected members, of which the SNP gained 59. HOWEVER, there are a further 56 seats allocated from party lists on a PR basis to balance the representation. Of these, the Tories got 24 and Labour 21 at the last election. The final number of seats for all parties are within about 4% of the number of votes received. For example the SNP gained 46.5% of the popular vote and have just under half of the seats (63 out of 129). Now, maybe you could address your concerns to the election of the UK government? Please tell me why the Tories enjoy overall power in the UK from just 43.6% of the votes at the last election? Thanks in advance. Whilst I realise that this is a bit of "whataboutery", it is, I believe, a perfectly legitimate question, but one that opens a veritable can of worms, worthy of a dedicated thread; I could only begin to answer by stating that there is no perfect system, and await proposals to emerge from the debate. As Winston Churchill famously and pithily declared, " democracy is the worst system of government.... except for all the rest". It is bureaucratic, messy and inefficient, and ultimately, assuming that we rather like our democratic system, generally speaking, we will simply have to accept its failures and deficiencies. Personally, I wouldn't be averse to some form of PR, the devil being in the detail, but the potential for unstable government, as in Italy, for example, or Israel, where a government, for which a minority of people voted, if I recall, was formed behind locked doors over a period of some weeks, and away from public scrutiny. Interesting!
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 26, 2021 16:16:17 GMT 1
So, you complain about Scots racism towards the English but then refer to Scotland as 'up there' and describe its leader (who was elected by a huge margin and who all the polls suggest has the support of the majority of the electorate) as 'Jimmie Crankie'! Let he who is without sin and all that. My personal experience of having lived here for many years is that yes, there are some people who have racist tendencies, but then again probably no more than in England (actually less if anything). The BNP never gained any real traction in Scotland, nor the NF or any of the other fringe parties who attract such people (e.g. Nigel Farage's many faces). I think I can see the independence argument from both sides, and I have to say I find the arrogance of people who refer to England and English when they actually mean the UK and British very, very wearing. It's probably this arrogance which drives the move to independence more than anything else. That, and those people who say 'let them have their independence and see what a mess they make of it' - on the assumption that it is somehow England's (or the UK's) to 'give'. This is the type of thing that riles people most on a daily basis. I am amazed how you can link the term up there as racist, same as I refer to London as down there, Newcastle as up there.... it’s purely a geographical identification of North and South, so referring to Scotland as up there, is only done as it’s North of Market Drayton "I think I can see the independence argument from both sides, and I have to say I find the arrogance of people who refer to England and English when they actually mean the UK and British very, very wearing. It's probably this arrogance which drives the move to independence more than anything else. That, and those people who say 'let them have their independence and see what a mess they make of it' - on the assumption that it is somehow England's (or the UK's) to 'give'. This is the type of thing that riles people most on a daily basis." yes i can understand your irritation, im welsh but live in england and there is the london bubble,
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lynch
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Post by lynch on Feb 26, 2021 16:39:29 GMT 1
If Scotland becomes independent I hope they can come up with a more imaginative name than “rUK” for what remains.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 26, 2021 16:51:47 GMT 1
A couple of things to take from watching these Committee procedures:
(a) Mr Salmon remains a smooth operator; (b) For all its undeniable faults, isn't it refreshing and self-affirming to Have the privilege of watching democratic accountability being practised?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 26, 2021 19:05:47 GMT 1
If Scotland becomes independent I hope they can come up with a more imaginative name than “rUK” for what remains. im sure they will
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 26, 2021 20:10:43 GMT 1
To be fair, Scottish independence is now boring me, I love Scotland, as a place, like England it has the odd s**thole, and Glasgow / Greenock well outstrip that and are head and shoulders above in that department, it also has some lovely people. Burt they can be extremely racist towards the English> i worked up there for a few weeks and was astonished at that side. Getting to the point that of let them get their independence. Then see how the SNP actually manage things. Not sure if its true, and cannot be arsed to check, but its also alleged that Little Jimmy Crankie has ordered the flying of the EU Flag.... not much in the press about that though. So, you complain about Scots racism towards the English but then refer to Scotland as 'up there' and describe its leader (who was elected by a huge margin and who all the polls suggest has the support of the majority of the electorate) as 'Jimmie Crankie'! Let he who is without sin and all that. My personal experience of having lived here for many years is that yes, there are some people who have racist tendencies, but then again probably no more than in England (actually less if anything). The BNP never gained any real traction in Scotland, nor the NF or any of the other fringe parties who attract such people (e.g. Nigel Farage's many faces). I think I can see the independence argument from both sides, and I have to say I find the arrogance of people who refer to England and English when they actually mean the UK and British very, very wearing. It's probably this arrogance which drives the move to independence more than anything else. That, and those people who say 'let them have their independence and see what a mess they make of it' - on the assumption that it is somehow England'ys (or the UK's) to 'give'. This is the type of thing that riles people most on a daily basis. I agree that the referendum was conducted with general civility, but the atmosphere since then, particularly the apparent anti-English sentiment, seems less so... mind, it could be the way it gets reported down here! I have never experienced racism at all on my occasional visits beyond Hadrian's Wall (some Aberdeen fans wouldn't even let me and my mate buy a drink before a Scottish Cup final some years ago, in exchange for putting up with pithy comments about English football). The question however as to whether independence is England's or the UK's to give is an interesting one, as it opens up the can of worms known as "should the rest of the UK be given the chance to have a say in any future vote"?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 20:58:29 GMT 1
"should the rest of the UK be given the chance to have a say in any future vote"? I’m sure I’ll be shot down for suggesting this but should the other european countries have had a say in our independence vote?
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 26, 2021 22:09:51 GMT 1
"should the rest of the UK be given the chance to have a say in any future vote"? I’m sure I’ll be shot down for suggesting this but should the other european countries have had a say in our independence vote? Consider yourself shot down 😂
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 22:36:41 GMT 1
I’m sure I’ll be shot down for suggesting this but should the other european countries have had a say in our independence vote? Consider yourself shot down 😂 Thanks for being so gentle ACF 😂👍
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 26, 2021 23:03:04 GMT 1
Consider yourself shot down 😂 Thanks for being so gentle ACF 😂👍 You're welcome!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 7:48:43 GMT 1
Before people say Sturgeon is the best politician in the UK, we need to remember the bar is pretty low at the moment. However, Sunak seems to know what he's about and comes across as coherent.
Anyway, I am due to go to Scotland in the late summer.
I will report back if I am a victim of racism, or not.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Feb 27, 2021 8:01:15 GMT 1
I may have got this the wrong way around but I’m not sure that this is now about anyone going after Salmon. I see this as a settling of scores by Salmon and that he is the one driving the agenda as a way of destroying Sturgeons career. May have got it wrong though, it’s certainly all a bit murky Salmon plumbing the murky depths to get Sturgeon. It's all a bit fishy to me.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 27, 2021 12:33:57 GMT 1
I may have got this the wrong way around but I’m not sure that this is now about anyone going after Salmon. I see this as a settling of scores by Salmon and that he is the one driving the agenda as a way of destroying Sturgeons career. May have got it wrong though, it’s certainly all a bit murky Salmon plumbing the murky depths to get Sturgeon. It's all a bit fishy to me. Not as if certain posters on here deploy identical tactics with regard to our current government, of course 😂😂😂
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Post by highlandshrew on Feb 27, 2021 12:55:19 GMT 1
I may have got this the wrong way around but I’m not sure that this is now about anyone going after Salmon. I see this as a settling of scores by Salmon and that he is the one driving the agenda as a way of destroying Sturgeons career. May have got it wrong though, it’s certainly all a bit murky Salmon plumbing the murky depths to get Sturgeon. It's all a bit fishy to me. Decent gag, but as I've pointed out on here before his name is Salmon d (with a D).
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 27, 2021 13:03:15 GMT 1
What a gift for all the other political parties in Scotland this is.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 27, 2021 13:25:27 GMT 1
thanksf fo that and well done scotland r; but how does this system not have a fairer spread of other partys when the SNP only got a small number more than the combined votes for the other two partys i dont know how many the liberarals and other partys got ?The degree to which it is a "fair" system is arguable of course, but, if memory serves me, it originated by the late Donald Dewar, and was set up to be anything but fair, insofar as it was intended to ensure that NO party could secure electoral dominance. If that fits in with your definition of "fair" that's fine.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 27, 2021 13:40:17 GMT 1
There are two stories.
One is about whether Salmond was the victim of a conspiracy. The other is about the Scottish legal system is operating over all this.
The first of these is fun and potentially scandalous but the second one is a far bigger issue and there doesn’t look to be any way that the SNP can come out of it looking good.
The UK media have been shamefully slow to understand or take an interest in all this. Sturgeon is given a remarkably easy ride by the media and it’s time there was proper scrutiny.
I’d concede that she’s a fluent and convincing speaker but her government’s performance has been disastrous in a number of areas and now it appears to be corrupt. Thought back to this post when reading this...👍 The rotten state of Scotland
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