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Post by venceremos on Jun 10, 2021 13:06:48 GMT 1
A small minority is just that. You can't please everyone
"Minority opinion doesn't count", said Real Villain just above. I don't go that far, but it's not for the majority of sensible, respectful fans to insist that players should pander to the booing, disrespectful minority. Always remember, no fans are being asked to join in; this is the players' protest and should be respected as such.
To hell with sappy calls for unity, I'm done with that. If people can't respect the rights of others and choose to identify with those who are racist, then **** 'em.
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Post by servernaside on Jun 10, 2021 14:42:40 GMT 1
All I can say is well done to the FA and their supporters - Sky Sports, the BBC and other media organisations, for allowing politics into our national game with the predictable result that it has become a divisive issue. Instead of talking about upcoming matches, we are talking about taking the knee. When will these people ever learn? [br Since when has politics not been embedded in sport and football? It's only an issue now for many as it's now using a 'political' opinion that they don't agree with Perhaps you could enlighten us all and describe the support for other political movements 'embedded in football' which have been demonstrated on the field of play.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jun 10, 2021 16:13:03 GMT 1
Scotland have decided otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 16:48:43 GMT 1
[br Since when has politics not been embedded in sport and football? It's only an issue now for many as it's now using a 'political' opinion that they don't agree with Perhaps you could enlighten us all and describe the support for other political movements 'embedded in football' which have been demonstrated on the field of play. Some would say poppy wearing:- "Even if it were more widely debated, wearing a poppy would still be political. The belief in ending all wars is as much a political belief as accepting war as a natural condition of our human existence. You need only look at the hostility some people face for wearing a white poppy – a mark of pacifist remembrance".
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Post by servernaside on Jun 10, 2021 17:46:02 GMT 1
Perhaps you could enlighten us all and describe the support for other political movements 'embedded in football' which have been demonstrated on the field of play. Some would say poppy wearing:- "Even if it were more widely debated, wearing a poppy would still be political. The belief in ending all wars is as much a political belief as accepting war as a natural condition of our human existence. You need only look at the hostility some people face for wearing a white poppy – a mark of pacifist remembrance". Frankly, I don't care. I've been watching football for more than forty years and I can tell you there was no wearing of poppies back then. The football pitch is a place of sport....only. People who want to espouse political, or any other causes, should respect the paying public and find another venue to parade their beliefs to a like-minded audience.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 18:43:45 GMT 1
Some would say poppy wearing:- "Even if it were more widely debated, wearing a poppy would still be political. The belief in ending all wars is as much a political belief as accepting war as a natural condition of our human existence. You need only look at the hostility some people face for wearing a white poppy – a mark of pacifist remembrance". Frankly, I don't care. I've been watching football for more than forty years and I can tell you there was no wearing of poppies back then. The football pitch is a place of sport....only. People who want to espouse political, or any other causes, should respect the paying public and find another venue to parade their beliefs to a like-minded audience. Are you saying I am correct in saying that some people see wearing poppies as political? Or are you saying that players do not wear poppies, when in fact they often wear specially printed shirts with a poppy on them which are auctioned off after the match?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 10, 2021 19:24:04 GMT 1
Scotland have decided otherwise. I wonder if they had one eye on those polls when coming to that decision. See how it pans but can't help but feel that common sense has prevailed here.
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Post by shrewswolf on Jun 10, 2021 19:59:19 GMT 1
What was the reaction earlier on this thread at a time most of the home nations didn’t take a knee in the rugby? Didn’t ‘that’ England team basically split in two, half did and half didn’t and I’m presuming they all talked about it beforehand and accepted each other’s reasoning? It seems that level of conversation could be useful across the entire country but alas it won’t, and instead people will just label each side of the argument with extreme accusations which is rather tiresome.
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Post by belfastshrew on Jun 10, 2021 20:03:50 GMT 1
What was the reaction earlier on this thread at a time most of the home nations didn’t take a knee in the rugby? Didn’t ‘that’ England team basically split in two, half did and half didn’t and I’m presuming they all talked about it beforehand and accepted each other’s reasoning? It seems that level of conversation could be useful across the entire country but alas it won’t, and instead people will just label each side of the argument with extreme accusations which is rather tiresome. That's right. It's irrelevant whether some, none, or all take the knee nowadays as it will attract debate regardless. And awareness is the whole point, so job done.
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Post by servernaside on Jun 10, 2021 20:22:35 GMT 1
Frankly, I don't care. I've been watching football for more than forty years and I can tell you there was no wearing of poppies back then. The football pitch is a place of sport....only. People who want to espouse political, or any other causes, should respect the paying public and find another venue to parade their beliefs to a like-minded audience. Are you saying I am correct in saying that some people see wearing poppies as political? Or are you saying that players do not wear poppies, when in fact they often wear specially printed shirts with a poppy on them which are auctioned off after the match? I can't imagine many circumstances in which I think you are correct. Personally I believe that wearing a poppy merely signifies respect for those who lost their lives fighting for their country. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me at all if players and other staff members didn't wear poppies (printed on shirts, or otherwise). I always go to the local cenotaph to pay my respects to the war dead on Remembrance Sunday, I don't need to do it at a football match.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2021 22:33:58 GMT 1
Are you saying I am correct in saying that some people see wearing poppies as political? Or are you saying that players do not wear poppies, when in fact they often wear specially printed shirts with a poppy on them which are auctioned off after the match? I can't imagine many circumstances in which I think you are correct. Personally I believe that wearing a poppy merely signifies respect for those who lost their lives fighting for their country. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me at all if players and other staff members didn't wear poppies (printed on shirts, or otherwise). I always go to the local cenotaph to pay my respects to the war dead on Remembrance Sunday, I don't need to do it at a football match. "I can't imagine many circumstances in which I think you are correct" That's an improvement on none. So you must be coming around to my way of thinking.
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Post by servernaside on Jun 10, 2021 23:22:39 GMT 1
I can't imagine many circumstances in which I think you are correct. Personally I believe that wearing a poppy merely signifies respect for those who lost their lives fighting for their country. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me at all if players and other staff members didn't wear poppies (printed on shirts, or otherwise). I always go to the local cenotaph to pay my respects to the war dead on Remembrance Sunday, I don't need to do it at a football match. "I can't imagine many circumstances in which I think you are correct" That's an improvement on none. So you must be coming around to my way of thinking. Unlikely
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Jun 11, 2021 8:52:44 GMT 1
Some would say poppy wearing:- "Even if it were more widely debated, wearing a poppy would still be political. The belief in ending all wars is as much a political belief as accepting war as a natural condition of our human existence. You need only look at the hostility some people face for wearing a white poppy – a mark of pacifist remembrance". Frankly, I don't care. I've been watching football for more than forty years and I can tell you there was no wearing of poppies back then. The football pitch is a place of sport....only. People who want to espouse political, or any other causes, should respect the paying public and find another venue to parade their beliefs to a like-minded audience. For someone who doesn't care you are talking about it a lot. Politics is a vital part of society and we all are invested in it whether we like it or not. It's almost impossible to separate politics from aspects of society as society is governed by politics. And the point isn't whether you care or not, it's whether it is intertwined. If you think nobody else cares - take a look at how James McLean fares every rememberance day. A few other examples that spring to mind just recently in English football: - Army personnel at football matches. - Who is the president of the FA? - Who dictates who gets a minute's silence? - W ho were asking for political intervention when the super League was planned?
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Post by servernaside on Jun 11, 2021 8:58:41 GMT 1
Frankly, I don't care. I've been watching football for more than forty years and I can tell you there was no wearing of poppies back then. The football pitch is a place of sport....only. People who want to espouse political, or any other causes, should respect the paying public and find another venue to parade their beliefs to a like-minded audience. For someone who doesn't care you are talking about it a lot. Politics is a vital part of society and we all are invested in it whether we like it or not. It's almost impossible to separate politics from aspects of society as society is governed by politics. And the point isn't whether you care or not, it's whether it is intertwined. If you think nobody else cares - take a look at how James McLean fares every rememberance day. A few other examples that spring to mind just recently in English football: - Army personnel at football matches. - Who is the president of the FA? - Who dictates who gets a minute's silence? - W ho were asking for political intervention when the super League was planned? There is a world of difference between general political involvement in many walks of life and overt political gesturing before matches.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 9:09:56 GMT 1
There’s a world of difference between what’s actually there and what suits you to see!
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jun 11, 2021 9:19:54 GMT 1
Quite surprised at the poll results that Stuttgarter posted before, I was expecting a lot more in the " don't support" column judging by the coverage those who boo the knee are getting. Interesting to see how heavily supported it is in some countries compared to others as well, I guess it's no coincidence that not a lot of eastern european countries were polled.
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Post by servernaside on Jun 11, 2021 12:57:45 GMT 1
There’s a world of difference between what’s actually there and what suits you to see! I suspect this applies more to you.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 11, 2021 13:09:22 GMT 1
I don't see why so many people feel attacked by young people holding different values to their own. Although I am encouraged by it. I think there is a three step process to dealing with elite athletes - or even Shrewsbury Town players - taking the knee before a game. And I commend it to a number of contributors to this thread. 1. Pause. 2. Look at the world and all the serious problems in it. 3. STFU Needs to be quoted and repeated seeing as posters have managed to conjure up 20 pages on this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 14:07:46 GMT 1
There’s a world of difference between what’s actually there and what suits you to see! I suspect this applies more to you. Well possibly. But in this context you see a mob of baying Marxists intent on world domination and the overthrow of western democracy whilst I see footballers making a stand against racism. We will have to disagree on who is seeing it right👍
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Post by northwestman on Jun 11, 2021 16:14:57 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/11/keir-starmer-accuses-boris-johnson-of-failure-of-leadership-in-anti-racism-rowKeir Starmer has accused Boris Johnson of a lack of courage over his reluctance to condemn fans who boo England’s players for taking the knee and has told the prime minister that his “failure of leadership” undermined the team’s chances of success at Euro 2020. The Labour leader, who believes that Gareth Southgate has shown Johnson how to be a leader, said no football supporter should boo their team and argued that backing the players in their fight against racism and discrimination should not be a difficult choice for those in positions of political power. As often seems to be the case, Starmer is backing the wrong horse here, and has misunderstood the situation. The supporters are NOT booing their team and will fully support them throughout the match. They are booing them for taking the knee.
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Post by salop27 on Jun 11, 2021 16:36:36 GMT 1
Christ, this is rumbling along. While it might not be helpful booing your own team it's your right as a paying spectator to do so. Personally, full time is always a good time to express some negative emotions but I'm sure all of us have been sat next to someone who kicks off as soon as the first pass goes astray. So normally pretty early in the game watching the Town.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 11, 2021 18:00:47 GMT 1
how long will it be before some fans start taking the knee and then picking on those that dont bother ?
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Post by kl8-2 on Jun 11, 2021 18:13:15 GMT 1
how long will it be before some fans start taking the knee and then picking on those that dont bother ? 3 weeks.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 11, 2021 19:08:52 GMT 1
how long will it be before some fans start taking the knee and then picking on those that dont bother ? 3 weeks. Agreed.
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Post by belfastshrew on Jun 11, 2021 19:18:05 GMT 1
I have dodgy knees. Can I lift a pint in respect instead?
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Post by Pilch on Jun 11, 2021 19:32:14 GMT 1
I have dodgy knees. Can I lift a pint in respect instead? no , that will start a fight for sure
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 11, 2021 20:13:20 GMT 1
how long will it be before some fans start taking the knee and then picking on those that dont bother ? Remember that some of our fans would have difficulty getting up again if they the knee. Some of the players too sometimes.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 12, 2021 7:02:17 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 9:05:58 GMT 1
There’s a big difference between not supporting something and actively opposing it!?
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 12, 2021 9:21:16 GMT 1
Is this the same bloke who spent most of his career at the left wing woke BBC?
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