|
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 5, 2020 22:20:43 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Salopian on Dec 5, 2020 22:26:14 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Dec 5, 2020 22:30:14 GMT 1
I notice we’ve not done it on any of the 3 home games this season that fans have been in, yet we have on games behind closed doors on ifollow
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Dec 5, 2020 22:30:27 GMT 1
to be honest i'm fed up of it now, its just going through the motions, and as the picture shows its just an opportunity for certain players to try and be different for the others,
|
|
|
Post by Feedo Gnasher on Dec 5, 2020 22:37:48 GMT 1
The irony is that’s it been put firmly back into the public eye today and I suspect will result in more publicity and statements, the exact opposite of what those booing will have wanted.
For me personally, I no longer see the need for it, think it has become trivialised, and think moves against racism should have more substance and I’m sure there are many with similar view points. But to actively heckle it is shocking form and shows them up as racists imo.
|
|
|
Post by harboroughshrew on Dec 5, 2020 22:44:14 GMT 1
The irony is that’s it been put firmly back into the public eye today and I suspect will result in more publicity and statements, the exact opposite of what those booing will have wanted. For me personally, I no longer see the need for it, think it has become trivialised, and think moves against racism should have more substance and I’m there are many with similar view points. But to actively heckle it is shocking form and shows them up as racists imo. Agree with the above - TV commentators are saying it is raising awareness but surely it loses its effect if done as a matter of routine. It would be nice if the EFL made a statement about what actual steps are being taken in practice to increase BAME representation in football management and in football administration so we can gauge the progress being made.
|
|
|
Post by thesensationaljt on Dec 5, 2020 23:43:41 GMT 1
I've got mixed race relatives, and I'd go mad if they suffered abuse, but this has just divided us along skin colour lines, and I don't like that at all. If you want to make political statements, stand for parliament. I see Millwall has been singled out, but it happened at West Ham as well. To be honest, it gets on my tits. Stand together, regardless of our colour, it doesn't matter.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Rickerton on Dec 6, 2020 0:49:46 GMT 1
Boils Downie's p**s, and therefore I'm all for it.
|
|
|
Post by TheFoz on Dec 6, 2020 0:56:22 GMT 1
An interesting point of view from an ex NFL player on why he wouldn’t take the knee.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Dec 6, 2020 0:58:19 GMT 1
Les Ferdinand had some interesting views on this. Think I'm right in saying that QPR were one of the first clubs to stop doing it as a matter of course and his viewpoint was basically that it's a bit of going through the motions ego massage that doesn't change anything and for what it's worth I'm inclined to agree.
Can't say I sympathise with people being "offended" by it either. Grimly predictable that Milwall would be the ones to make a scene and concern trolling about "political statements in football" is just weasel words. I notice these same people take a polar opposite view every year in November.
I honestly feel like if an individual group of players really feels like it's something they want to do to show solidarity then good for them but I can definitely sympathise with players who feel like it's papering over the cracks and become a token gesture. It speaks to an interesting trend in anti-discrimination protests where what starts out as a revolutionary act becomes coopted by the mainstream to the point of becoming meaningless; the original taking of the knee was deemed offensive to the point of sacrilege, now a refusal to conform with the gesture can be career limiting.
Similarly, the corporate world is now all over things like Pride and similar. My employer has a particularly irritating habit of doing twee interviews with employees with a view of highlighting particular issues. The recent series on BAME people to coincide with Black History Month is patronisingly titled "Pass the Mic" (because we all know all BAME people are secretly rappers, aren't they?) Stuff like this is self defeating in my view; just winds up highlighting the inherent hypocrisy of a lot of our societal institutions, focusses on empty gestures instead of tangible change and, worst of all, cedes the subversive higher ground to bigots and feeds their victim complex.
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Dec 6, 2020 1:36:36 GMT 1
Fair play to those at Millwall. It's nothing to do with race anymore, it's a far left political movement.
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Dec 6, 2020 8:58:21 GMT 1
Fair play to those at Millwall. It's nothing to do with race anymore, it's a far left political movement. Given the history of Millwall fans, I doubt they were making a political statement, or feel that’s it’s become a token gesture. They probably would have booed the first time their players took the knee. Personally, I agree it’s time to stop, not because the issue has gone away, but it’s no more than a token, and obscures the real issues.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 6, 2020 9:46:18 GMT 1
Fair play to those at Millwall. It's nothing to do with race anymore, it's a far left political movement. Yeah, you could see this coming a mile off. It was always going to be the case that some fans would be happy to see this continue, others wouldn’t but wouldn’t make their feelings know, others wouldn’t and would. And you suspect that with more and more fans set to return, we may hear more boos at other grounds. Just feel that football, as in the EPL, the EFL, clubs made a mess of this from the start when they rushed to jump on the BLM bandwagon without taking time out to look beyond the hashtag and get an idea of who and what BLM are, what they are about. I think the FA finally woke up when BLM tweeted about Palestine using an anti-Semitic trope, then we saw the laughable and embarrassing attempts to distance themselves from BLM (claiming BLM had highjacked "black live matters"). But that seemed too little too late. And again proving that they really haven’t got a clue. I can only guess but I gather the EFL saw this coming and so made the effort to introduce the “Not today…” anti-racist campaign but it would seem now that come what may, taking the knee isn’t seen as anti-racism but pro-BLM. And with that, it’s hardly surprising that after their antics in London (and specifically around the Cenotaph) many aren’t happy to see that and will make their feelings known. Perhaps more could have been done to distance football from BLM but whether that ship has sailed, could be. Perhaps the EFL really need to push the “Not today…” campaign more, a campaign which I’m sure all fans can support. I mean I don’t recall such a reaction to any other anti-racism campaigns we have seen in football. And it’s pretty clear to most as to why. I think they made a mess of this. They need to move on. They can still make huge efforts towards the fight against racism without showing support (or being perceived to be showing support) for a very divisive political movement. Some fans just aren't going to accept this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 10:43:48 GMT 1
It's up to the players to show solidarity as they see fit, seeing as it's their co-workers like Anton Ferdinand on the receiving end of racism.
As a political movement BLM is irrelevant, it's not going to change any thing, yet people get their knickers in a twist over it.
Mind you if taking the knee outrages snowflake racists and keeps the issue in the news then all the better.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 10:46:06 GMT 1
Fully support BLM, but agree this has gone on too long and has lost its meaning.
Much the same as clap for carers, when it first happened there was a degree of spontaneity and it had impact and feeling. It drew attention, but soon became a bit of an embarrassment.
Problem now is, if it stops now, for all intense and purposes the thick bigoted brain dead pricks from Millwall will see this as a victory for them.
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Dec 6, 2020 10:47:21 GMT 1
It's up to the players to show solidarity as they see fit, seeing as it's their co-workers like Anton Ferdinand on the receiving end of racism. As a political movement BLM is irrelevant, it's not going to change any thing, yet people get their knickers in a twist over it. Mind you if taking the knee outrages snowflake racists and keeps the issue in the news then all the better. really its actually treating us all like "snowflake racists" and i'd lay money reminding the real racists its time to crack a racist joke
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 10:49:58 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Dec 6, 2020 10:50:53 GMT 1
no idea who he is is he a person of colour by any chance ?
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Dec 6, 2020 10:53:24 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Dec 6, 2020 10:57:39 GMT 1
i've not read the weekly whats politically correct mag this week
|
|
|
Post by thesensationaljt on Dec 6, 2020 11:00:09 GMT 1
This is just going to build up more resentment. If you don't take the knee, (and I wouldn't), it's akin to bullying by frowning upon the person involved. The tax dodger Hamilton is a good bullying example. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54526075
|
|
|
Post by dachshund on Dec 6, 2020 11:09:27 GMT 1
no idea who he is is he a person of colour by any chance ? What is your intention in even posting this mean-spirited nonsense?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 11:13:44 GMT 1
This is just going to build up more resentment. If you don't take the knee, (and I wouldn't), it's akin to bullying by frowning upon the person involved. The tax dodger Hamilton is a good bullying example. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54526075I never stand up for the national anthem or wear/buy a poppy. I get frowned upon. Is that bullying to?
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Dec 6, 2020 11:22:47 GMT 1
Who decided it was a good idea to do the take the knee thing at Milwall? Must have been people who wanted a reaction.
Kick politics out of football.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 6, 2020 11:27:13 GMT 1
Of course the players are well within their right to take the knee in support of whatever cause or movement they wish to show support for. Likewise, fans are well within their right to voice their displeasure at the support shown (to what is seen as a far left political movement and the language, the vandalism and the violence that surrounds it). Or rather they should be...
As I suppose likewise the clubs are well within their right to act on this and looking to the reaction on social media, you have calls to see fans banned, clubs required to play behind closed doors, some suggesting deducting points. Let's hope clubs show an ounce of common sense and don't get caught up in all that sort of nonsense. But it wouldn't surprise me, they've messed this up from the start and they may continue to do so.
Have we ever seen such a reaction to an anti-racism campaign before? Have we seen "Kick it out" booed? "Not today or any day"? No idea but I suspect not. But then I don't recall "Kick It Out" graffiti on the Cenotaph or demands to defund the police or do away with capitalism or anti-Semitic tweets being a part of that. And so its pretty clear to most as to what the difference is this time around. That some find that difficult to accept is beyond me.
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Dec 6, 2020 11:30:36 GMT 1
This is just going to build up more resentment. If you don't take the knee, (and I wouldn't), it's akin to bullying by frowning upon the person involved. The tax dodger Hamilton is a good bullying example. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54526075I never stand up for the national anthem or wear/buy a poppy. I get frowned upon. Is that bullying to? I think a key difference is one is refusing to support those who have given their life for our freedom today The other is refusing to kneel to an extremist group. Just a thought
|
|
|
Post by South Stand Salopian on Dec 6, 2020 12:21:02 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Dec 6, 2020 12:32:06 GMT 1
no idea who he is is he a person of colour by any chance ? What is your intention in even posting this mean-spirited nonsense? because we are in the situation where its just people going through the motions, wont be long before most have forgotton why and like i said, i still have no idea who that player is, never heard of him, have no intention of looking at what he has to say, i can pretty much guess that hes upset and shocked and outraged
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 12:54:21 GMT 1
I never stand up for the national anthem or wear/buy a poppy. I get frowned upon. Is that bullying to? I think a key difference is one is refusing to support those who have given their life for our freedom today The other is refusing to kneel to an extremist group. Just a thought Or, supporting the things YOU find relevant whilst not supporting the things you don’t?
|
|
|
Post by FloreatShrew on Dec 6, 2020 12:58:44 GMT 1
Who decided it was a good idea to do the take the knee thing at Milwall? Must have been people who wanted a reaction. Kick politics out of football. Political action and football are interlinked. Have been since the creation of the sport and it's done a lot of good. Social change, community engagement etc. Just because some don't like it doesn't mean we should drop what has been a cornerstone out.
|
|