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Post by chirkshrew on Mar 27, 2022 14:12:30 GMT 1
England are shocking---- no bottle, as usual๐๐๐๐
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Mar 27, 2022 14:28:59 GMT 1
England are shocking---- no bottle, as usual๐๐๐๐ Only in England could you get fans firing pelters at the team for making the semi-finals of the World Cup. Four wins on the trot, having been on the brink of elimination, is the stuff of stern resolve that made the Empire. The wild and jubilant celebrations have only just ceased at Swan HQ, and we now await the inevitable butterflies ahead of the semi-finals.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 16:15:33 GMT 1
West Indies need just 28 runs to win the match and the 3 test series.
England are really going backwards and I think it is time for Joe Root to step aside as captain.
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Post by LetchworthShrew on Mar 27, 2022 16:16:50 GMT 1
Day 4 Eng 2md Inns 62.1 overs - WICKET - Woakes c Holder b Roach 19 (Eng 116-9) 64.2 overs - WICKET - Leach c Da Silva b Roach 4 (Eng 120 all out) Eng 120, Mahmood 3* WI 2nd Inns - need 28 to win!
WI 28-0 (Braithwaite 20*, Campbell 6*) win by 10 wickets!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2022 16:30:43 GMT 1
All done.
West Indies win by 10 wickets.
More questions for the ECB to answer as our test team fails yet again.
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Post by chirkshrew on Mar 27, 2022 18:04:44 GMT 1
New batting coach needed---- where is sir Geoff these days๐ค๐ค๐ค
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 9:31:45 GMT 1
Unfortunately there is no quick fix here and things will get worse before they get better. Cricket across the world is at a huge crossroads, but even moreso in this country, for the purists/traditionalists, the game needs to revolve around county & test cricket, I agree to an extent but I'm also a realist and know that T20 is where the money is and there will have to be some give & take to make sure that test cricket can survive. I hate the obsession that some people have with cutting counties and introducing a franchise system, reducing the amount of county cricket is not going to improve test cricket. But equally the counties need to realise it's not the 1960's, the game does not resolve around them.
It's going to be a long term thing to try and get test & short term forms of the game competitive alongside each other, in this country we also need to look at how we make cricket popular & accessible outside state schools. Unfortunately these are huge tasks and I suspect there's very few people who want to take it on.
Finally, the hundred has not resulted in the farce that is the current England test team, however it is an added complication and will make things even worse. If the ECB truly had any intention of improving the test side they would scrap it and look to develop T20.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 28, 2022 10:01:58 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Mar 28, 2022 12:20:45 GMT 1
In 1,048 Test matches England have lost all 10 wickets in a session five times, the clearest and most objective measurement of batting brittleness. The first occasion, ever, occurred in 2016; the other four occasions have happened in the last four years. In other words, four of the five instances of complete capitulation have taken place under Joe Rootโs captaincy.
In Hobart two months ago England did not lose all 10 wickets in a session but they did succeed in losing nine. The tea interval intruded as they lost 10 wickets in only 22.5 overs, including the most spectacular surrender in all these instances of brittleness: when Ollie Robinson backed so far away he could not reach the ball, to terminate the Ashes series on an appropriate, if scarcely forgivable, note.
The Grenada Test was played on a slow pitch, so everything happened at a slower pace, but Englandโs batting was yet another example of this same brittleness. They lost their first eight wickets for 90 runs in their first innings, when there was some lateral movement, and their first eight for 101 in their second innings, when there was none.
The causes of this England brittleness are likely to be multifactorial but it is worth noting that the technical faults have been similar in all four instances of England losing 10 wickets in a session under Rootโs captaincy. Whether the bowler has been Trent Boult or Tim Murtagh (or Scott Boland and Kyle Mayers), Englandโs right-handed batsmen have not had the patience to leave the ball outside off stump persistently, and have reached for it, instead of waiting and playing it under their eyes.
As these disintegrations never happened in the past - never on such a scale - it is logical to assume the principal cause is recent: and it is not county cricket that is to blame, it is white-ball cricket that is to blame. Todayโs batsmen are conditioned to go after the ball, so they will be picked to play T20 and thereby make extra money. Zak Crawley bats for England in Tests like he bats for Kent in white-ball games, not like an England opening batsman.
As the graphics showed during this Test, the one England batsman to wait for the ball and play it under his eyes was Jack Leach. In the whole of his professional career Leach has scored the grand total of 22 white-ball runs; the temptation to throw his hands at the ball has not existed. The prime West Indian example, Kraigg Brathwaite, has devoted his career to red-ball batting, and blocking, and batting time, and waiting with infinite patience for the bowlers to tire.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 13:44:55 GMT 1
In 1,048 Test matches England have lost all 10 wickets in a session five times, the clearest and most objective measurement of batting brittleness. The first occasion, ever, occurred in 2016; the other four occasions have happened in the last four years. In other words, four of the five instances of complete capitulation have taken place under Joe Rootโs captaincy. In Hobart two months ago England did not lose all 10 wickets in a session but they did succeed in losing nine. The tea interval intruded as they lost 10 wickets in only 22.5 overs, including the most spectacular surrender in all these instances of brittleness: when Ollie Robinson backed so far away he could not reach the ball, to terminate the Ashes series on an appropriate, if scarcely forgivable, note. The Grenada Test was played on a slow pitch, so everything happened at a slower pace, but Englandโs batting was yet another example of this same brittleness. They lost their first eight wickets for 90 runs in their first innings, when there was some lateral movement, and their first eight for 101 in their second innings, when there was none. The causes of this England brittleness are likely to be multifactorial but it is worth noting that the technical faults have been similar in all four instances of England losing 10 wickets in a session under Rootโs captaincy. Whether the bowler has been Trent Boult or Tim Murtagh (or Scott Boland and Kyle Mayers), Englandโs right-handed batsmen have not had the patience to leave the ball outside off stump persistently, and have reached for it, instead of waiting and playing it under their eyes. As these disintegrations never happened in the past - never on such a scale - it is logical to assume the principal cause is recent: and it is not county cricket that is to blame, it is white-ball cricket that is to blame. Todayโs batsmen are conditioned to go after the ball, so they will be picked to play T20 and thereby make extra money. Zak Crawley bats for England in Tests like he bats for Kent in white-ball games, not like an England opening batsman. As the graphics showed during this Test, the one England batsman to wait for the ball and play it under his eyes was Jack Leach. In the whole of his professional career Leach has scored the grand total of 22 white-ball runs; the temptation to throw his hands at the ball has not existed. The prime West Indian example, Kraigg Brathwaite, has devoted his career to red-ball batting, and blocking, and batting time, and waiting with infinite patience for the bowlers to tire. Daily Telegraph. Thanks for sharing. Ultimately England are paying the price for having not taken first-class cricket seriously enough for a number of years.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 13:16:18 GMT 1
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Post by Minormorris64 on Mar 30, 2022 16:00:47 GMT 1
Excellent Article:
Perhaps I am being more than usually obtuse, but isnโt the most surprising thing about the debacle of Englandโs Test cricketers in the West Indies the fact that anyone is surprised by it?
Some of us never bought into the idea that the three Tests in the Caribbean would be a stroll compared with the savage route-march to humiliation that was the tour to Australia that preceded it. The same fundamentals that contributed to that shambles remained in place for this one: a demoralised team insufficiently skilled in playing serious cricket, and exploited by its employers in playing the unmemorable, rubbish short-form games that have debauched the very idea of what cricket is. Add to that what must politely be called an eccentric selection policy, with the teamโs two greatest bowlers playing golf at home while English cricket became yet more ridiculous, and the recipe for catastrophe was complete.
Most of the England and Wales Cricket Boardโs panjandrums have already had their P45s. It remains inexplicable why Tom Harrison, the Chief Executive, has not had his. It would be mildly uplifting if, as in one of those excellent films about Bomber Command, Mr Harrison was like the handlebar-moustached pilot who ensures the plane crashes away from a centre of population after the rest of the crew has jumped out. Sadly, one fears he lingers for other reasons, perhaps to seek to engineer some sort of continuity from the pitiful regime over which he has presided. Since the ECB needs the most radical change in outlook and strategy imaginable, the sooner Mr Harrison is on his bike the better.
And talking of change, there have been almost universal calls for Joe Root to give up the captaincy. He is the leading English batsman of his generation, and fit to be compared with any of the countryโs greats in living memory. He has a poor recent record as captain; he has lacked imagination; and if complicit in the exclusion of Broad and Anderson, he is a fool to boot. He probably will lose the captaincy, and a case can be made that he would deserve to. But it would leave an ugly taste in the mouth that he was being scapegoated for the failings and misjudgments of others. May he remain in the side for years and score many more centuries and double centuries; England needs him, and he does not deserve to be humiliated. He has done his best with the miserable resources put at his disposal.
One is tempted to say we canโt go on like this; but one says it every time a fiasco occurs, and we do go on like this; and the fiascos become worse and worse until they reach a preposterous level of absurdity, which is rather what happened in Grenada last weekend.
Nothing has changed. The fixture programme that is about to start has first-class cricket โ the proving ground for the Test team โ consigned to the usually poor conditions of the beginning and the end of the season. High season is filled with white-ball cricket that helps our players develop appalling techniques that makes them, especially the batsmen, play such rank Test cricket. It would seem the ECB regards first-class county cricket as an obstacle to its money-making activities and therefore as incidental to its main strategies. It has never tried to market it as a viable entertainment. That is what has to stop.
Sadly, there is no sign the ECB has grasped what needs to be done, never mind being prepared to do it. One shudders at rumours that one proposal which could be put to Sir Andrew Straussโs performance review is a โPremier Leagueโ of 12 counties, with a second division of just six. The main reason advanced for this is that it would mean fewer first-class matches and more time to โprepareโ.
Our cricketers play too little first-class cricket, not too much. The best preparation, all evidence suggests, is done in the middle or on the field. Those who want to cut the fixture lists argue that relatively few first-class matches are played in countries such as Australia, and it doesnโt do their cricketers any harm. But this is not Australia; we have a different climate and geology; above all we have nothing like the sub-structure that underpins Australian cricketersโ development and performance, their commitment and their idea of competitiveness. What the last few years have shown is that our players need to play more first-class cricket. Look at this winterโs abominable performances if you doubt that contention.
Forgotten in all this is the cricketing public. Professional cricket exists in England because people pay to go to see it. The return on the investment the average county member gets these days compared with in the 1970s is dismal; a handful of first-class fixtures, many of which end in just three days because of the conditions in which they are played; teams bereft of Test players, for whom rest is deemed a superior form of preparation than actually playing; and an increasingly low standard of cricket because of the increasing difficulty in finding promising young players who wish to make the game their career, thanks to the near-death of state school cricket. Have a second division of six Cinderella clubs staffed by nonentities and they will rapidly start going out of business. Cut the first-class fixture lists further and membership figures will decline further: no one wants an unrelenting diet of rubbish. If you lose what remains of county cricketโs public, you will also erode the base of those prepared to pay through the nose to watch Test cricket.
The counties โ six of whom, I repeat, will be lucky to survive other than as weekend and evening slogfest circuses โ need to wake up and take the initiative. For too long they have been manipulated by the ECB in return for being bribed with money, mainly from television rights, that they have done little or nothing to help earn. Now they are being promised a transfer system (which will break what remains of many local loyalties) and other gimmicks to keep them silent.
The committees who run the counties need to realise that an existentialist threat to some of them will, in the end, provide a threat to them all, and to the future of Test cricket. They need to start asking whether they believe in first-class cricket; and if the answer is yes, they must be prepared to mount a full-scale peasantsโ revolt to provide a more credible alternative.
The counties (and MCC, which is so much the obedient creature of the ECB that it is becoming a laughing stock and a disgrace) must remind themselves of the historic responsibility they have for our great game, and for securing its future. That future will be one of a diminishing spectacle of increasingly trivial cricket unless they act now to save, and grow, the red-ball game. The alternative is for county cricket to sign its own death warrant.
Simon Heffer, Daily Telegraph
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 16:58:48 GMT 1
Excellent Article: Perhaps I am being more than usually obtuse, but isnโt the most surprising thing about the debacle of Englandโs Test cricketers in the West Indies the fact that anyone is surprised by it? Some of us never bought into the idea that the three Tests in the Caribbean would be a stroll compared with the savage route-march to humiliation that was the tour to Australia that preceded it. The same fundamentals that contributed to that shambles remained in place for this one: a demoralised team insufficiently skilled in playing serious cricket, and exploited by its employers in playing the unmemorable, rubbish short-form games that have debauched the very idea of what cricket is. Add to that what must politely be called an eccentric selection policy, with the teamโs two greatest bowlers playing golf at home while English cricket became yet more ridiculous, and the recipe for catastrophe was complete. Most of the England and Wales Cricket Boardโs panjandrums have already had their P45s. It remains inexplicable why Tom Harrison, the Chief Executive, has not had his. It would be mildly uplifting if, as in one of those excellent films about Bomber Command, Mr Harrison was like the handlebar-moustached pilot who ensures the plane crashes away from a centre of population after the rest of the crew has jumped out. Sadly, one fears he lingers for other reasons, perhaps to seek to engineer some sort of continuity from the pitiful regime over which he has presided. Since the ECB needs the most radical change in outlook and strategy imaginable, the sooner Mr Harrison is on his bike the better. And talking of change, there have been almost universal calls for Joe Root to give up the captaincy. He is the leading English batsman of his generation, and fit to be compared with any of the countryโs greats in living memory. He has a poor recent record as captain; he has lacked imagination; and if complicit in the exclusion of Broad and Anderson, he is a fool to boot. He probably will lose the captaincy, and a case can be made that he would deserve to. But it would leave an ugly taste in the mouth that he was being scapegoated for the failings and misjudgments of others. May he remain in the side for years and score many more centuries and double centuries; England needs him, and he does not deserve to be humiliated. He has done his best with the miserable resources put at his disposal. One is tempted to say we canโt go on like this; but one says it every time a fiasco occurs, and we do go on like this; and the fiascos become worse and worse until they reach a preposterous level of absurdity, which is rather what happened in Grenada last weekend. Nothing has changed. The fixture programme that is about to start has first-class cricket โ the proving ground for the Test team โ consigned to the usually poor conditions of the beginning and the end of the season. High season is filled with white-ball cricket that helps our players develop appalling techniques that makes them, especially the batsmen, play such rank Test cricket. It would seem the ECB regards first-class county cricket as an obstacle to its money-making activities and therefore as incidental to its main strategies. It has never tried to market it as a viable entertainment. That is what has to stop. Sadly, there is no sign the ECB has grasped what needs to be done, never mind being prepared to do it. One shudders at rumours that one proposal which could be put to Sir Andrew Straussโs performance review is a โPremier Leagueโ of 12 counties, with a second division of just six. The main reason advanced for this is that it would mean fewer first-class matches and more time to โprepareโ. Our cricketers play too little first-class cricket, not too much. The best preparation, all evidence suggests, is done in the middle or on the field. Those who want to cut the fixture lists argue that relatively few first-class matches are played in countries such as Australia, and it doesnโt do their cricketers any harm. But this is not Australia; we have a different climate and geology; above all we have nothing like the sub-structure that underpins Australian cricketersโ development and performance, their commitment and their idea of competitiveness. What the last few years have shown is that our players need to play more first-class cricket. Look at this winterโs abominable performances if you doubt that contention. Forgotten in all this is the cricketing public. Professional cricket exists in England because people pay to go to see it. The return on the investment the average county member gets these days compared with in the 1970s is dismal; a handful of first-class fixtures, many of which end in just three days because of the conditions in which they are played; teams bereft of Test players, for whom rest is deemed a superior form of preparation than actually playing; and an increasingly low standard of cricket because of the increasing difficulty in finding promising young players who wish to make the game their career, thanks to the near-death of state school cricket. Have a second division of six Cinderella clubs staffed by nonentities and they will rapidly start going out of business. Cut the first-class fixture lists further and membership figures will decline further: no one wants an unrelenting diet of rubbish. If you lose what remains of county cricketโs public, you will also erode the base of those prepared to pay through the nose to watch Test cricket. The counties โ six of whom, I repeat, will be lucky to survive other than as weekend and evening slogfest circuses โ need to wake up and take the initiative. For too long they have been manipulated by the ECB in return for being bribed with money, mainly from television rights, that they have done little or nothing to help earn. Now they are being promised a transfer system (which will break what remains of many local loyalties) and other gimmicks to keep them silent. The committees who run the counties need to realise that an existentialist threat to some of them will, in the end, provide a threat to them all, and to the future of Test cricket. They need to start asking whether they believe in first-class cricket; and if the answer is yes, they must be prepared to mount a full-scale peasantsโ revolt to provide a more credible alternative. The counties (and MCC, which is so much the obedient creature of the ECB that it is becoming a laughing stock and a disgrace) must remind themselves of the historic responsibility they have for our great game, and for securing its future. That future will be one of a diminishing spectacle of increasingly trivial cricket unless they act now to save, and grow, the red-ball game. The alternative is for county cricket to sign its own death warrant. Simon Heffer, Daily Telegraph Firstly, thanks for sharing and secondly, well said Simon. I have to admit that my first, knee jerk reaction was to call for the sacking of Joe Root as Captain, such was my anger and frustration at yet another England failure. In hindsight, Simon has reminded me that yes, Joe Root has had his weaknesses as Captain but that he cannot be made the scapegoat for the wider failings of the ECB for not investing in and protecting the legacy that is test cricket.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 30, 2022 17:06:34 GMT 1
And would those 6 second division counties be drawn from Derbys, Leics, Northants, Essex, Kent, Sussex and Worcs by any chance?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 17:11:18 GMT 1
And would those 6 second division counties be drawn from Derbys, Leics, Northants, Essex, Kent, Sussex and Worcs by any chance? Good question.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 30, 2022 17:13:37 GMT 1
Whilst I mourn the loss from the airwaves of the one and only Geoffrey Boycott, I suspect that he is pleased to be away from the total shambles that is English cricket; apoplexy would not even come close to describing his emotions. Is there ANYONE who can take up the cudgles in support of PROPER cricket?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 17:21:12 GMT 1
Is there ANYONE who can take up the cudgles in support of PROPER cricket? I really hope so, but I'm not holding my breath mind.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 30, 2022 17:25:57 GMT 1
Is there ANYONE who can take up the cudgles in support of PROPER cricket? I really hope so, but I'm not holding my breath mind. I agree - it is a totally depressing situation.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Mar 30, 2022 20:08:25 GMT 1
Once it's gone I suspect it will be gone
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Mar 31, 2022 1:49:33 GMT 1
The biggest cricket event in some years is about to begin. Just the Saffers stand between us and the World Cup final.
Bedtime at 10am for any B&Aers who like their cricket!
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Post by northwestman on Mar 31, 2022 9:15:35 GMT 1
The biggest cricket event in some years is about to begin. Just the Saffers stand between us and the World Cup final. Bedtime at 10am for any B&Aers who like their cricket! England won easily by 137 runs.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Mar 31, 2022 13:03:17 GMT 1
What a fantastic moment it was when the winning wicket fell. Celebrations up and down the street, what a day to be an English sports fan, let alone an English cricket fan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 19:27:27 GMT 1
What a fantastic moment it was when the winning wicket fell. Celebrations up and down the street, what a day to be an English sports fan, let alone an English cricket fan. What an excellent turnaround after such a poor start to the tournament. It's going to be a tough ask against Australia in the final but, you never know.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 31, 2022 19:47:16 GMT 1
What a fantastic moment it was when the winning wicket fell. Celebrations up and down the street, what a day to be an English sports fan, let alone an English cricket fan. Is it just me being cynical, but do I detect more than a hint of irony here.... My concern, and surely the prime concern of all cricket fans, is the future of mens Test Match cricket; don't please misunderstand me - the recovery of the women in this world Cup campaign is remarkable, and to be admired greatly, but I would prefer to focus on the real pinnacle of the game, not shortened versions, whoever is playing it.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Apr 3, 2022 5:31:59 GMT 1
356 is a big total ladies
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2022 9:52:42 GMT 1
356 is a big total ladies In the end too much for our England women. Some team that Australia have mind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 12:54:02 GMT 1
Good to see the County Championship underway this morning.
Tom Haines going well for Sussex, if he keeps on improving he could soon be on the selectors thoughts.
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Post by shropshirelad42 on Apr 7, 2022 14:03:50 GMT 1
Not going to be easy for the bowlers with this wind about. Just got back from Shrewsbury cemetery & stuff has been blown all over the place โน๏ธ. Is it still illegal to play first class cricket without bails, or in extremely windy circumstances are the umpires allowed to use their discretion ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 14:10:04 GMT 1
Not going to be easy for the bowlers with this wind about. Just got back from Shrewsbury cemetery & stuff has been blown all over the place โน๏ธ. Is it still illegal to play first class cricket without bails, or in extremely windy circumstances are the umpires allowed to use their discretion ? Law 8.5 of cricket states, โThe umpires may agree to dispense with the use of bails, if necessary. If they so agree then no bails shall be used at either end. The use of bails shall be resumed as soon as conditions permit.โโ I was a stand in umpire years ago in a game down in Llanon (south of Aberystwyth) and it was so windy that we had no option but to allow play to continue without the bails.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 9:06:53 GMT 1
Root steps down as captain. The only surprise was it didn't happen after the Ashes
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