Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 18:21:01 GMT 1
At a desperate time for schools and faced with a useless Minister she made zero impact, a good reason for sacking her. Exactly the point I made upthread, sack her for the real reason.
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Jun 28, 2020 18:25:36 GMT 1
At a desperate time for schools and faced with a useless Minister she made zero impact, a good reason for sacking her. She did actually support the unions position on schools re-opening, but without the support of her leader she couldn't really make much of an impact to be fair. Now if he had sacked her for going against him on this I could have understood, but to use AS as an easy get out was a bit of a cheap shot. Equally she made it easy for him.
No-one is coming out of this looking great.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 18:29:05 GMT 1
At a desperate time for schools and faced with a useless Minister she made zero impact, a good reason for sacking her. She did actually support the unions position on schools re-opening, but without the support of her leader she couldn't really make much of an impact to be fair. Now if he had sacked her for going against him on this I could have understood, but to use AS as an easy get out was a bit of a cheap shot. Equally she made it easy for him.
No-one is coming out of this looking great.
Well, supporting the unions isn't a good look. At least people know where Starmer stands now. Sir Keir Starmer that is.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2020 19:18:24 GMT 1
I'm scratching my head as to what zero impact is meant to mean. Teachers are the experts in this matter. The government's proposals were that the children that are the most difficult to socially isolate were the ones to return to school first. There have been a number of infections related to the very short period that some schools reopened. Having taken note of the views of the teachers' unions' views she placed their position at the forefront of her position. Given the poor public health response from the government this is a correct position in my view.
This was not the approach that Starmer wanted. He wanted strong advocacy for a return to school. As a result RLB was sidelined and other people did media interviews on the education portfolios, themselves strongly advocating for a return to school and ensuring that her press releases were issued arounf midnight.
Of course this was a bridgeable gap because both sides were framing it as a return to school "when safe to do so". The independent SAGE has advocated a number of creative ways in which education could be delivered to children over the summer. It's worth saying that many teachers around the country have been providing lessons for the children of key workers. But no, the right wing press in June made this an issue of Labour being in hok to the trade unions and so Starmer will take the route of taking them on.
|
|
|
Post by andygroundo on Jun 28, 2020 19:31:44 GMT 1
Errrrm, OK Anyhow... The Tories have an 80 seat majority, right? They are ahead in the polls, right? Not when looking to the two leaders, I mean when looking to the parties? I mean even within the article you linked to it states... While the Tories remain four points ahead of Starmer’s party on 44% to Labour’s 39%.And whilst my comment on Sunak is just my opinion, I'm not entirely sure what an article in the Guardian proves when it is looking to compare Johnson and Starmer (not Sunak). So when you say my post is inaccurate and totally out of touch, where do you mean? Maybe its just my imagination but we seem to see a lot of this on here these days. People come on here, see something they don't like because it goes against their own political leanings, rush in to try and discredit the poster and the content but in doing so make a bit of hash of it. Perhaps we all ought to try a little better because I don't think it does the board any good. I still worry this sort of thing is stopping others from getting involved in such discussions.👍 Haven’t you just done what your saying is the problem with this board 😂 I going down the Nicko route
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 28, 2020 21:24:31 GMT 1
Far more progressive than Labour. Two female PMs for starters ... Again, you just say something that isn't true because it's not your opinion or you don't like the truth.
If you don't fancy clicking the link, here are a few of the highlights:
97% white. 71% male. 54% from London and the South East. 5% 18-24 year olds. 86% in the ABC1 social grade. 84% think schools should teach children to obey authority. 44% believe censorship of films. 54% support the death penalty.
That certainly doesn't look like the ultimate in diversity to me.
Howdya like them truths? Or are they opinions? I can never tell.
Surprise surprise the Tory supporters have disappeared suddenly
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 21:32:59 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2020 21:46:08 GMT 1
I've already tweeted Nia, in a comradely fashion, asking her to take my online "crimes" into consideration.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2020 21:47:08 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 21:51:44 GMT 1
I've already tweeted Nia, in a comradely fashion, asking her to take my online "crimes" into consideration. I guess all those Jews that defended Long-Bailey are AS too. This why it's stupid.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 28, 2020 21:57:26 GMT 1
I've already tweeted Nia, in a comradely fashion, asking her to take my online "crimes" into consideration. I guess all those Jews that defended Long-Bailey are AS too. This why it's stupid. Be very clear about this: British Jews have been exoelled from the Labour Party over allegations of AS. As far as I can recall in the end AS wasn't what they were found guilty of - the convenient catch all of "bringing the party into disrepute" has been used. The allegation of AS is made against them and they are suspended for months or years while the matter os considered. A (of course left wing) candidate for the NEC by-elections this year was suspended for a brief period following an allegation of AS. She is Jewish. This is where we are.
|
|
|
Post by Valerioch on Jun 29, 2020 7:14:35 GMT 1
Piers Morgan spot on this morning.
“The most blatant form of anti-semitism seen in a long time, how anyone can defend her is astounding. They can’t see anti-semitism when it smacks them in the face...”
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 29, 2020 8:08:34 GMT 1
What about those Jews who did deem what Peake had said was antisemitic? And therefore supported Starmer in sacking Long-Daily (because she went ahead and shared it). I thought some supported the notion that it is those who are the victims of racism who get to define what is and is not racist. So how does that now work. Do we now ignore those Jews who do deem it to be antisemitic and it shouldn't be called as such because its a politician that they happen to support. And it is that notion that means we are already in a world where debate is stifled and people are scared to contribute when it comes to the discussion around racism. Laurence Fox is a recent example of what can happen if you do. He just so happened to state that the UK is one of the most tolerant places within Europe (and the stats back that up) yet he was targeted, denounced and hounded as a result. The climate already exists where debate is stifled, where people are already wary of joining the discussion because of concerns of the backlash they may face. This is why Pie has it spot on. The left created this, this is what they have sought, this is what they wanted. They can't now complain because of one their own has fallen foul. You can't have it both ways.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 8:49:37 GMT 1
Piers Morgan spot on this morning. “The most blatant form of anti-semitism seen in a long time, how anyone can defend her is astounding. They can’t see anti-semitism when it smacks them in the face...” What about Jews who disagree? There are Jews who supported Starmer, but there are plenty who don't, as in the links I posted. The question still remains, is criticism of the state of Israel anti-Semitic? Some Jews say it is, some Jews say it isn't. Calling someone anti-Semitic, because they promote an idea that Israeli security forces may have been involved in the death of George Floyd in a stretch. What it does do, is shut down debate on the Israeli policy in the West Bank. This is the point I am making, from my first post.
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Jun 29, 2020 8:54:58 GMT 1
What about those Jews who did deem what Peake had said was antisemitic? And therefore supported Starmer in sacking Long-Daily (because she went ahead and shared it). I thought some supported the notion that it is those who are the victims of racism who get to define what is and is not racist. So how does that now work. Do we now ignore those Jews who do deem it to be antisemitic and shouldn't be called as such because its a politician that they happen to support. And it is that notion that means we are already in a world where debate is stifled and people are scared to contribute when it comes to the discussion around racism. Laurence Fox is a recent example of what can happen if you do. He just so happened to state that the UK is one of the most tolerant places within Europe (and the stats back that up) yet he was targeted, denounced and hounded as a result. The climate already exists where debate is stifled, where people are already wary of joining the discussion because of concerns of the backlash they may face. This is why Pie has it spot on. The left created this, this is what they have sought, this is what they wanted. They can't now complain because of one their own has fallen foul. You can't have it both ways. Couple of quick questions for you Stutty.
Was Donald Trump being racist when he accused Mexicans of being rapists, drug dealers and murderers? I would imagine that many Mexicans thought he was, but were ignored.
Was Boris Johnson being racist when he called black people “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles''? I would guess that quite a few black people offence, but were also ignored.
I agree, you can't just ignore the feelings of Jews, just because you say something that could potentially offend them. My argument is that people are conflating criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism, when they are two different things. People are politicising this argument to make political gains.
If some people thought that Maxine Peake was being anti-Semitic we really need to look at the dictionary definition of Anti-Semitism. Colloins dictionary says: uncountable noun Anti-Semitism is hostility to and prejudice against Jewish people.
There was no hostility or prejudice against anyone apart from the Israeli government.
The biggest Jewish population is actually in the US, so if I criticise the US would that be anti-Semitic? Of course not, so why is it if I choose to criticise Israel?
|
|
|
Post by sheltonsalopian on Jun 29, 2020 9:03:00 GMT 1
Think it's fair to say that the majority of the British public won't change who they vote for because of antisemitism, it's really such a niche issue that only the ones affected by it or the more keener followers of politics ever debate about.
The team in charge of Labour's PR played this superbly - nip it in the bud quick by sacking RLB and it can no longer be used as a stick to bash Labour with. That's all the average member of the public will ever hear about this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 9:09:55 GMT 1
The team in charge of Labour's PR played this superbly - nip it in the bud quick by sacking RLB and it can no longer be used as a stick to bash Labour with. That's all the average member of the public will ever hear about this. That's a good and important point. For example, I really don't remember Piers Morgan sticking up for Ed Miliband when he was a victim of anti-semitism, or anybody on here for that matter. Anti-Semitism has been around a long time in the UK, it's not so much of a stretch now to see why it's such a hot topic now.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 29, 2020 9:26:24 GMT 1
Think it's fair to say that the majority of the British public won't change who they vote for because of antisemitism, it's really such a niche issue that only the ones affected by it or the more keener followers of politics ever debate about. I'm really not so sure about that. Seems to me that for a good while now both the Tories and Labour are spending more and more time trying to frame the other as more racist, more intolerant, more...whatever they can get their hands on that they think will damage the opposition. As identity politics has come to the fore, the more we see it being played out in parliament. Look at the recent exchanges between Patel and Butler. It does seem to be taking more precedent. When it comes to identity, I do feel that we are seeing things increasingly politicized and weaponized. We'll have to wait for the investigation into the Labour party of course but I doubt they are any more antisemitic than any other party. For me this was just the Tories looking to turn the tables on Labour and play them at their own game, to fight fire with fire. How many times do we see a discussion flip flop between Islamophobia in the Tory party and Antisemitism in Labour. That's where things are now. And I don't think its a healthy place to be. And I don't think its going to calm down any time soon either.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 29, 2020 10:25:42 GMT 1
Can only get an understanding from reading the newspapers but it seems that Starmer has been doing the rounds this morning on TV and radio and from the looks of it seems to have come across well. Not just addressing Long-Bailey's dismissal mind but on other topics too. 👍 I doubt it'll be the last time he'll be asked to make a comment about Lloyd Russell-Moyle.
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Jun 29, 2020 13:28:11 GMT 1
Can only get an understanding from reading the newspapers but it seems that Starmer has been doing the rounds this morning on TV and radio and from the looks of it seems to have come across well. Not just addressing Long-Bailey's dismissal mind but on other topics too. 👍 I doubt it'll be the last time he'll be asked to make a comment about Lloyd Russell-Moyle. Worrying when Tory supporters agree with the labour leader 😩 he’ll be doing favours for his mates and exploiting tax loopholes next!
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 29, 2020 14:24:58 GMT 1
"Gone down well" or not the Labour front bench seems to have forgotten about the Lammy Review of 2015 that made 35 recommendations for better outcomes for ethnic minorities. Interesting to see where the push-ups thing goes given that Starmer's press team includes people from Owen Smith's team of 2016.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 29, 2020 14:50:00 GMT 1
Can only get an understanding from reading the newspapers but it seems that Starmer has been doing the rounds this morning on TV and radio and from the looks of it seems to have come across well. Not just addressing Long-Bailey's dismissal mind but on other topics too. 👍 I doubt it'll be the last time he'll be asked to make a comment about Lloyd Russell-Moyle. Worrying when Tory supporters agree with the labour leader 😩 Yeah, blimey. I mean perhaps he might well start persuading one or two that Labour are once again a real alternative to the Tories. Perhaps he might actually want to win an election. What's all that about. By the by, not that I agreed with anything he might have said. Can't say I'm that arsed either way when it comes to Long-Daily or Russell-Moyle. I'm just reporting what was reported in the press. 👍
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Jun 29, 2020 15:26:37 GMT 1
Quick question for any Tory voters on here.
Do you think that the Israeli government should be held to account over the indiscriminate use of force in the Gaza Strip, the illegal settlements on the West Bank and the brutalising of the Palestinian people?
Yes or no answer.
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 29, 2020 17:28:41 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2020 17:40:33 GMT 1
Oh, I don't only mention Israel. I have quite often criticised the murderous scumbags of Saudi Arabia, in fact probably more often than I have criticised the human rights abusing land grabbers of Israel. "English first, British second, European NEVER!!!!" Human being first, nationality by accident of birth.
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2020 17:46:05 GMT 1
Good memory apart from I'm sure it was Salopian first. I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again for those in the cheap seats. I used to be a bigoted tw@; racist, homophobic, sexist, the full works. If I can change, anyone can. Please change back, because you have turned into a first class terrorist sympathising pudding. Living down to your usual 'debating' standards, I see.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 19:03:03 GMT 1
"Father and son matched the description of the suspects." Mmmmm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 19:04:09 GMT 1
|
|