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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 23:29:44 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 23:34:12 GMT 1
No, my point is that the protests are really not understandable
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 23:50:34 GMT 1
No, my point is that the protests are really not understandable If you were a member of the BAME community you may feel differently about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:21:02 GMT 1
Yesterday just showed the complete hypocrisy & whataboutery that is society today.
Some people (lets call them Group A) have been commenting for weeks about how some Brits (lets call them Group B) are a disgrace regarding breaching lockdown, VE celebrations, packed beaches etc. Lots of 'a second spike is coming, we know who to blame' etc.
Then yesterday we had the sight of thousands of people marching together,very little social distancing and a small proportion of which have been attacking police. Some of Group A are supportive of the protests and if challenged use the actions of Group B to justify them, despite complaining about them for week's. Some of Group B in the meantime are condemning the protests for breaking social distancing guidelines despite doing the same for weeks. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical.
Its not impossible to recognise that the actions of both groups were irresponsible during a pandemic. Clearly the protests are more important than a street party but is the right to protest more important than the risk of spreading a virus? And the irony is the BAME community are the ones most ar risk.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 8:25:36 GMT 1
With what happened yesterday together with all the beaches and beauty spots being packed last week, they might as well open all the pubs now! 2 metres, 1 metre, it doesn't make much difference to some.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 7, 2020 8:31:18 GMT 1
In due course I expect epidemiologists to be tracing infection spikes to VE Day parties, people crowding on beaches, the aftermath of the Cummings affair and yesterday’s demonstrations and am dismayed by all of them.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 8:31:24 GMT 1
from the mail "Nearly 30 leading experts have demanded public inquiry into shortcomings Second wave will be more deadly if minsters don't address them, they warn Sent letter to PM in another sign of growing gulf between ministers and experts; In a scathing letter published last night, the signatories criticised the Government's control freakery approach to testing and unwillingness to devolve responsibility to local public health bodies. They also ripped into ministers for their 'inability to plan for necessary goods' such personal protective equipment (PPE) for NHS and care home workers. Among the signatories were ex SAGE scientist, Professor Deenan Pillay, a virologist at University College London, and Professor Anthony Costello, a former World Health Organization (WHO) director and a global health expert at UCL. The editors of two prestigious medical journals have also put their name to the letter – Richard Horton of the Lancet and Fiona Godlee of the British Medical Journal.It is the latest sign of brewing tensions between ministers and the country's top scientists." |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:33:22 GMT 1
Yesterday just showed the complete hypocrisy & whataboutery that is society today. Some people (lets call them Group A) have been commenting for weeks about how some Brits (lets call them Group B) are a disgrace regarding breaching lockdown, VE celebrations, packed beaches etc. Lots of 'a second spike is coming, we know who to blame' etc. Then yesterday we had the sight of thousands of people marching together,very little social distancing and a small proportion of which have been attacking police. Some of Group A are supportive of the protests and if challenged use the actions of Group B to justify them, despite complaining about them for week's. Some of Group B in the meantime are condemning the protests for breaking social distancing guidelines despite doing the same for weeks. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical. Its not impossible to recognise that the actions of both groups were irresponsible during a pandemic. Clearly the protests are more important than a street party but is the right to protest more important than the risk of spreading a virus? And the irony is the BAME community are the ones most ar risk. There's a group C. The ones who didn't comment at all on the VE Day parties and crowded beaches, but have plenty to say about the protest marches. |
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 8:35:24 GMT 1
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Post by ssshrew on Jun 7, 2020 9:13:19 GMT 1
There’s also a group D. Those of us who are now so confused about it all we don’t know what to think or believe anymore.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 7, 2020 9:33:18 GMT 1
Yesterday just showed the complete hypocrisy & whataboutery that is society today. Some people (lets call them Group A) have been commenting for weeks about how some Brits (lets call them Group B) are a disgrace regarding breaching lockdown, VE celebrations, packed beaches etc. Lots of 'a second spike is coming, we know who to blame' etc. Then yesterday we had the sight of thousands of people marching together,very little social distancing and a small proportion of which have been attacking police. Some of Group A are supportive of the protests and if challenged use the actions of Group B to justify them, despite complaining about them for week's. Some of Group B in the meantime are condemning the protests for breaking social distancing guidelines despite doing the same for weeks. If it wasn't so serious it would be comical. Its not impossible to recognise that the actions of both groups were irresponsible during a pandemic. Clearly the protests are more important than a street party but is the right to protest more important than the risk of spreading a virus? And the irony is the BAME community are the ones most ar risk. There's a group C. The ones who didn't comment at all on the VE Day parties and crowded beaches, but have plenty to say about the protest marches. These protests have added a huge and unnecessary risk of a second wave of the virus. There's no groups A, B or C about it, these people who decided to attend and not socially distance, including abusing the police and innocent animals are mindless thugs and should be punished with the full strength of the law. Attacking the UK police force for something that the American police did is one thing which is ridiculous enough. Attacking their working animals such as horses and dogs is completely inexcusable and should be punished with time at her majestys pleasure. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 9:47:19 GMT 1
If people break the law they should be punished, be it a dodgy eye test at a lovely castle, a gathering at a beech or a protest in London.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 7, 2020 9:54:52 GMT 1
There’s also a group D. Those of us who are now so confused about it all we don’t know what to think or believe anymore. The only way forward is to take "be alert" to mean be sensible. Most of the population seems to want to move on from lockdown, the government, as usual, have captured the mood and loosened things - they probably received the credit card bill. First it was beaches, now it's out marching, some people's common sense goes out of the window. Those "being alert" will be the ones that find innovative new ways. There is not one person on this board who condones what happened in Trump's America, but I doubt any of us put ourselves in crowded demos yesterday, just like none of us threw fireworks at the police yesterday. Trump isn't going to take any notice of violent protests, just gives him an excuse. Of course none of us were stupid enough to drive out during lockdown to "test our eyesight" either. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 7, 2020 10:08:30 GMT 1
With what happened yesterday together with all the beaches and beauty spots being packed last week, they might as well open all the pubs now! 2 metres, 1 metre, it doesn't make much difference to some. Let the sensible people, like you, find a quiet pub with a beer garden. Those on the beaches and the protests will be the first ones in the queue for the crowded bars. |
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 10:11:01 GMT 1
With what happened yesterday together with all the beaches and beauty spots being packed last week, they might as well open all the pubs now! 2 metres, 1 metre, it doesn't make much difference to some. Let the sensible people, like you, find a quiet pub with a beer garden. Those on the beaches and the protests will be the first ones in the queue for the crowded bars. I couldn't have put it better myself! 100% correct. Over 50 years of frequenting hostelries means that I know of pubs in remote locations that are very quiet, especially in the day. Unfortunately, as a result of this covid-19, they are also likely to be amongst the most vulnerable to be closed for good. If the future of pubs is the likes of Wetherspoons and the big City bars with no bar stools, ordering by apps, masks everywhere, plastic shields, plastic glasses, contactless cards etc then it is indeed a bleak prospect. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 11:07:32 GMT 1
this protest is understandable but a large black lives mater protest in london with many thousands of protesters in london all packed together bearing in mind a liverpool game and a horse race lead to a seven fold spike in cases ,such a large protest will bound to lead in a spike in cases. Are you sure about this...... large numbers descended on a beach , large numbers go to a majopr horse race and football game and you have a large spike, so whilst no body can be sure , it was a factor in these cases, fans from iceland came to some english football games and brought covid-19 to Iceland. so for it is is probable and completely avoidable what was the point of lockdown if huge numbers decend on beaches and go to protests and completely ignore social distancing. "A general hospital in Somerset has temporarily stopped accepting new patients in an attempt to stop the spread of Covid-19 on site. Social media users who replied to Penrose suggested an influx of visitors to the area since the easing of lockdown rules was to blame, mentioning queues outside chip shops and day-trippers on Weston-super-Mare’s promenade. " The town’s mayor, Mark Canniford, last week criticised the “total disregard” for the town’s residents from day-trippers who packed on to the beach." New evidence has shown that two major sporting events held in England in March could have been responsible for the coronavirus mushrooming across Britain and beyond.Leaked figures from the Cheltenham area along with strong anecdotal evidence from Liverpool suggest the sporting fixtures could have contributed to the virus’ spread. Both areas now have had significantly above average deaths from the disease. The figures show that there was a spike in coronavirus cases in the Cheltenham area in the days following the major horse racing festival that started on March 10. Some Liverpool football fans are understood to have travelled to Cheltenham for the prestigious Gold Cup race straight after the Liverpool versus Atletico Madrid football match on March 11. More than 3,000 fans had flown from Madrid, a hotbed for the virus, a day after Spain went into partial lockdown with football supporters banned from stadiums. The Spanish fans visited Liverpool’s bars and clubs, places known as hotspots for transmitting Covid-19." |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 11:10:04 GMT 1
No, my point is that the protests are really not understandable If you were a member of the BAME community you may feel differently about that. of course they are undestandable but there are ways to have a protest without ten thousand people ignoring social distancing, i felt the same about groups who ifnored social distancing for VE day and descending on beaches. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 11:12:37 GMT 1
If people break the law they should be punished, be it a dodgy eye test at a lovely castle, a gathering at a beech or a protest in London. true |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 11:19:15 GMT 1
you have sweden were 90% of hte population followed goverments guidlines for voluntary isolation, Tiawan who seems be very self responsible and comunity orintated in there aproach , i watched an australian report from an aussie who worked in Taiawan and there contrst in there social respoinsability and concerns for fellow citizens and australia. then you have Britain were there was a significant minority who have behaved in a selfish stupid me me way, whilst the majority who have followed lockdown and obeyed all the guidlines may wonder what was the point of lockdown.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 11:24:50 GMT 1
In early February, as the Government announced a first Briton had tested Covid-19 positive in the UK, Public Health England was already falling flat on its face.
A centralised team of 290 contact tracers had been alerted to the case of Steve Walsh, who would come to be known as Brighton's “superspreader”, linked to at least 11 infections.
But in those crucial first days after he returned to the South Coast, having flown in from Singapore via a ski-ing holiday in France, PHE failed to track, trace, or, indeed, isolate his contacts in time.
One Brighton man, Jonathan Burrell, who took part in a yoga class with Mr Walsh in the days after his return to the UK has told how it took six days for him to be alerted by health officials. During the intervening week, he had met hundreds of people, took part in a cross country race, and visited his elderly father. “I then had a mild panic considering the number of people I had been in contact with over the previous week," Mr Burrell said this week.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 11:40:11 GMT 1
in sharp contrast and why i still have some hope fpr humanity.
"A group of monks and nuns who've had to close down their normal activities are now spreading the word about the free hot meal delivery service they've started instead.
Lockdown has ended all collective worship and closed down the not-for-profit vegetarian/vegan Atma Café Cardiff's Hare Krishna community normally run in the Capitol Centre in Cardiff."
"But an unintended consequence is they’re producing more of their plant-based hot meals than ever after deciding to prepare and deliver free food to vulnerable and elderly people as well as frontline NHS staff.
Through their charity Food For Life Wales they’ve now cooked and distributed around 20,000 plant-based meals to more than 700 households, each one produced in line with their central principle of ‘non-harm’.
After starting in a small area of Cardiff deliveries now also go out in Swansea, Barry, Caerphilly, and Pontypridd, made possible by a small army of volunteers.
Kim Butts, who is 22 and originally from Caerphilly, is a full-time volunteer with the community.She became involved about four years ago when she was “at quite a difficult place” in her life.
“I wanted to try meditation and met some of the monks on the street in Cardiff,” she recalls."
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 7, 2020 12:09:54 GMT 1
In early February, as the Government announced a first Briton had tested Covid-19 positive in the UK, Public Health England was already falling flat on its face. A centralised team of 290 contact tracers had been alerted to the case of Steve Walsh, who would come to be known as Brighton's “superspreader”, linked to at least 11 infections. But in those crucial first days after he returned to the South Coast, having flown in from Singapore via a ski-ing holiday in France, PHE failed to track, trace, or, indeed, isolate his contacts in time. One Brighton man, Jonathan Burrell, who took part in a yoga class with Mr Walsh in the days after his return to the UK has told how it took six days for him to be alerted by health officials. During the intervening week, he had met hundreds of people, took part in a cross country race, and visited his elderly father. “I then had a mild panic considering the number of people I had been in contact with over the previous week," Mr Burrell said this week. Daily Telegraph. Those were the days, the first Briton to test positive in early February - we knew a lot about what was happening around the world then, pity the government's first slogan wasn't "Early action saves lives!" |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 13:09:14 GMT 1
There's a group C. The ones who didn't comment at all on the VE Day parties and crowded beaches, but have plenty to say about the protest marches. These protests have added a huge and unnecessary risk of a second wave of the virus. There's no groups A, B or C about it, these people who decided to attend and not socially distance, including abusing the police and innocent animals are mindless thugs and should be punished with the full strength of the law. Attacking the UK police force for something that the American police did is one thing which is ridiculous enough. Attacking their working animals such as horses and dogs is completely inexcusable and should be punished with time at her majestys pleasure. If you really follow the news, you'll see that the protests were peaceful, until a small minority caused trouble. I am trying to remember your posts about people on beaches. Please point me to them. If you really do take an interest in these issues, then you'll know that this isn't just about what is going on in the USA. A young black man I mentor was telling me a couple of months ago that he was stopped and searched 3 times in one week on his way to work in London. This was before Xmas. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stop-and-search-racist-bame-crime-home-office-a9160826.htmlNow, tell me why the BAME community have a grievance? Tell me why the BAME community feel the need to protest? Finally, I look forward to your outraged post the next time a member of the BAME community is stopped and searched for no reason, killed in Police custody, or suffers racism. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 13:11:23 GMT 1
If you were a member of the BAME community you may feel differently about that. of course they are undestandable but there are ways to have a protest without ten thousand people ignoring social distancing, i felt the same about groups who ifnored social distancing for VE day and descending on beaches. Yes, people have been ignoring the lockdown for weeks. But, the outrage seems to be reserved for yesterday. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 13:13:00 GMT 1
If people break the law they should be punished, be it a dodgy eye test at a lovely castle, a gathering at a beech or a protest in London. But, that's the problem. Cummings won't be punished. These protests are a lot more than the routine killing of a black in the USA. |
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Post by northwestman on Jun 7, 2020 13:22:09 GMT 1
No one from the government has appeared on Channel 4 News for three weeks, and for the entire week they have not been given the opportunity to ask a question at the press conference. Extraordinary lack of engagement during a global crisis.
No one has appeared on Good Morning Britain on ITV either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 14:37:20 GMT 1
of course they are undestandable but there are ways to have a protest without ten thousand people ignoring social distancing, i felt the same about groups who ifnored social distancing for VE day and descending on beaches. Yes, people have been ignoring the lockdown for weeks. But, the outrage seems to be reserved for yesterday. There is bound to be more of a reaction to the events of yesterday due to the very fact that they have received much more media event coverage. It was wall to wall on the BBC news. |
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 7, 2020 15:17:23 GMT 1
These protests have added a huge and unnecessary risk of a second wave of the virus. There's no groups A, B or C about it, these people who decided to attend and not socially distance, including abusing the police and innocent animals are mindless thugs and should be punished with the full strength of the law. Attacking the UK police force for something that the American police did is one thing which is ridiculous enough. Attacking their working animals such as horses and dogs is completely inexcusable and should be punished with time at her majestys pleasure. If you really follow the news, you'll see that the protests were peaceful, until a small minority caused trouble. I am trying to remember your posts about people on beaches. Please point me to them. If you really do take an interest in these issues, then you'll know that this isn't just about what is going on in the USA. A young black man I mentor was telling me a couple of months ago that he was stopped and searched 3 times in one week on his way to work in London. This was before Xmas. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stop-and-search-racist-bame-crime-home-office-a9160826.htmlNow, tell me why the BAME community have a grievance? Tell me why the BAME community feel the need to protest? Finally, I look forward to your outraged post the next time a member of the BAME community is stopped and searched for no reason, killed in Police custody, or suffers racism. Thousands of people are stopped and searched. I was regularly pulled over as a youngster driving and had my details checked and car searched, for no reason other than being young. Although a little bit annoying, I had no reason to be bothered, I wasn't breaking the law nor did I have anything to hide. If you're stopped and searched at random and you have nothing to hide or you're not breaking any laws then it will take a few minutes and you're on your way. Keeps the country safer if even one person is stopped, searched and a weapon or drugs are taken off the streets then that's positive. People who take offence to stop and search have something to hide in my opinion. I get searched at gigs, football grounds, nightclubs ... I'm not bothered in the slightest. |
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Post by claphamshrew on Jun 7, 2020 16:18:07 GMT 1
Think we need to remember that the protests have been attended by both BAME and white people, whilst the uneasiness about the protests taking place has been commented on not only by white people but also by BAME people too. I’ve seen on social media a number of BAME people say they didn’t want to attend because of COVID, and I think it’s a reasonable proposition to suggest that the overall numbers from all backgrounds protesting would have been higher if it wasn’t for the pandemic.
In terms of the question as to why people are more vocal about not being happy with the protests than about the flouting of lockdown by people visiting the beach, perhaps this can be explained because people visiting the beach weren’t trying to justify it. We can see by the Cummings thread that when someone tries to justify a particular action that could be perceived as wrong, it results in greater debate than if the individual had admitted they were wrong in the first instance.
Of course the BLM protests are far more justifiable than what he did, and it is a cause that I support, but I think anyone, and anyone of any race, has the right to (whilst understanding the reasoning behind) feel uneasy about the protests taking place in the current climate. Regrettably the question surrounding the legitimacy of the protests seems to be viewed by many as BAME on the one side and white on the other which is completely wrong and is greatly detrimental to the overall purpose as it results in division, which is the very thing the protests are opposed to.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 7, 2020 17:34:15 GMT 1
of course they are undestandable but there are ways to have a protest without ten thousand people ignoring social distancing, i felt the same about groups who ifnored social distancing for VE day and descending on beaches. Yes, people have been ignoring the lockdown for weeks. But, the outrage seems to be reserved for yesterday. i agree ; my concern is that bigots will try to blame ethnic minoritys for the black lives matter protest for any spike and ignore that people of all races protested whilst also overlooking all the idiots at the beaches. |
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