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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 2, 2020 9:51:45 GMT 1
“The scandal here is the repeated failure of politicians to solve our long running social-care crisis.” Sort of sums it up! I do wonder why Care Homes accepted the patients back from the NHS hospitals? They can only discharge a patient once ongoing care is confirmed. If I was a Care Home manager I’d have simply refused to accept the patient back without a test. Can only think it was down to pressure from the hospital but as we never reached 50% ICU capacity surely the elderly would have been better cared for by the NHS rather than an underpaid care assistant in a care home..... 'In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. Under the government guidance, patients who tested positive for coronavirus were allowed to be sent from hospitals to care homes. The second document states that “Negative tests are not required prior to transfers / admissions into the care home.” Matt Hancock finally pledged on 15th April to start testing all hospital patients before they are discharged to care homes'. Daily Telegraph. from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 2, 2020 11:00:08 GMT 1
www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/06/02/excess-death-figures-reveal-covid-19-impact/no goverment can put a spin on this as the real scale of carnage emerges The British Medical Association says the “true devastation wrought by Covid-19” is starting to become clear, after official statistics showed deaths across England and Wales doubled last month. "Office for National Statistics figures show 444 deaths were recorded in the Shropshire Council area during April. That was 147 more than the 297 recorded in April 2019 – a rise of 49 per cent. In Telford & Wrekin there was a huge rise in the number, with 237 deaths recorded in April – 110 more than the 127 recorded in April 2019 – an increase of 87 per cent. The picture was repeated in Powys where there was a 65 per cent rise, with a total of 215 deaths – 85 more than the 130 the previous year" " deaths in Shropshire were more than 50 per cent higher in April than usual levels as the coronavirus crisis took hold, official figures show." www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/06/01/no-further-covid-19-deaths-for-county/a glimer of light at the end of a very horrible journey; "No further coronavirus patient deaths were confirmed in Shropshire as the UK death toll increased by 111." which could be put in jepordy if people continue to behave like idiots with the lifting of lockdown measuers
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 2, 2020 11:04:40 GMT 1
'In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. Under the government guidance, patients who tested positive for coronavirus were allowed to be sent from hospitals to care homes. The second document states that “Negative tests are not required prior to transfers / admissions into the care home.” Matt Hancock finally pledged on 15th April to start testing all hospital patients before they are discharged to care homes'. Daily Telegraph. from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens Value? They just cost the government money. But what they have to watch out for is: They have a vote!
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 2, 2020 11:13:15 GMT 1
Trump was promoting the idea that this virus might have originated in Wuhan's biological research establishment. Now that was probably just Trump being Trump, but if a new virus started in the Salisbury area we would have taken extreme measures immediately in case it was something that had got out of Porton Down, maybe we, Trump included, should have in this case? Anyway, I take the report that China’s Ministry of Agriculture has published a new “catalogue” with what can be sold in markets as evidence that the Chinese government really does think that Covid 19 originated in the wet markets and not the research establishment: China takes dog meat off restaurant menus in post-Covid shift
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 11:30:18 GMT 1
Answering questions from the House of Lords Science Committee today, Professor Neil Ferguson said that genetic analysis says most strains of coronavirus in the UK originated in Spain or Italy. He said many thousands of infected people came into the country in February and early March. That helps to explain why death figures ended up being higher than hoped, he said.
That's a pretty damning statement which clearly shows the government's policy of not concentrating on ports and airports had serious consequences. In fact, they didn't shut them down at all.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 2, 2020 11:48:54 GMT 1
We started off well with sanctions on China travel, but we let ourselves down around the February Half Term. It's not hindsight, it was obvious then.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 11:56:27 GMT 1
We started off well with sanctions on China travel, but we let ourselves down around the February Half Term. It's not hindsight, it was obvious then. Exactly! I remember looking at maps on the internet which pinpointed the 1st few coronavirus cases located in the UK. Nearly all of them were indicated as coming from Italy or Spain. Yet precisely nothing was done to stop the flow of incoming cases.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 2, 2020 13:31:00 GMT 1
'In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. Under the government guidance, patients who tested positive for coronavirus were allowed to be sent from hospitals to care homes. The second document states that “Negative tests are not required prior to transfers / admissions into the care home.” Matt Hancock finally pledged on 15th April to start testing all hospital patients before they are discharged to care homes'. Daily Telegraph. from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens The unanswered question is could the care home refuse to accept the hospital patient. If this had happened en mass perhaps theGovernment would have had to have a rethink ?
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 2, 2020 13:35:17 GMT 1
Trump was promoting the idea that this virus might have originated in Wuhan's biological research establishment. Now that was probably just Trump being Trump, but if a new virus started in the Salisbury area we would have taken extreme measures immediately in case it was something that had got out of Porton Down, maybe we, Trump included, should have in this case? Anyway, I take the report that China’s Ministry of Agriculture has published a new “catalogue” with what can be sold in markets as evidence that the Chinese government really does think that Covid 19 originated in the wet markets and not the research establishment: China takes dog meat off restaurant menus in post-Covid shiftThe thought of dog meat, bats et al seems pretty awful in the western world but are sheep’s brains, sweetbreads etc any better?
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 2, 2020 13:36:51 GMT 1
from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens The unanswered question is could the care home refuse to accept the hospital patient. If this had happened en mass perhaps theGovernment would have had to have a rethink ? BBC File on 4, The care home catastrophe. link
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 2, 2020 13:41:53 GMT 1
from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens Value? They just cost the government money. But what they have to watch out for is: They have a vote! the seniors are also the people who tend to vote
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 2, 2020 13:44:06 GMT 1
somone i knowes daughter whent back to primary school, the normal class is 21 but 7 turned up so safe distancing was not an issues , i suspect that over the coming weeks as long as there not a big spike with children been ill most children will go back.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 14:14:29 GMT 1
No wonder The Tories don't like Channel 4. 1st they expose the shambles of the government's storage of PPE, and now this:
Boris Johnson told Italian PM he wanted 'herd immunity', Italy's health minister says. 'Boris Johnson told his Italian counterpart, Giuseppe Conte, in early March that the UK was aiming for “herd immunity” as part of its approach to coronavirus, a TV documentary claims.
Channel 4’s Dispatches spoke to the Italian health minister, Pierpaolo Sileri, who said this is what was said in a conversation between Johnson and Conte on 13 March. Sileri told the programme:
I spoke with Conte to tell President Conte that I’d tested positive [for coronavirus]. And he told me that he’d spoken with Boris Johnson and that they’d also talked about the situation in Italy. I remember he said, ‘He told me that he wants herd immunity’.
I remember that after hanging up, I said to myself that I hope Boris Johnson goes for a lockdown.
In late February and early March the government’s scientific adviser were relatively open about saying that they thought it would be impossible to entirely suppress coronavirus and that there were advantages from allowing “herd immunity” to build up. Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser, said this publicly, including in a Today programme interview on 13 March (the day the Johnson/Conte conversation took place). But very soon afterwards the government abruptly changed policy, in response to modelling saying that anything other than a policy aimed at full suppression of coronavirus would led to the NHS being overwhelmed.
Subsequently ministers became averse to being associated with the “herd immunity” concept, because that implied toleration or even support for people dying from coronavirus in manageable numbers, and now they insist it was never part of their policy.
According to PA Media, the Dispatches programme also quotes Prof Graham Medley, who sits on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), saying he was dismayed by government complacency at the early stages of the outbreak. Medley told the programme:
We already knew that this virus was going to cause an awful lot of death and disability and would require an awful lot of NHS resource ... so it was with some dismay that we were watching senior politicians behaving in a way that suggested that this was not something that was too serious'.
The Guardian.
Dispatches is on Channel 4 tomorrow 21.00 - 22.00.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 14:46:27 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 15:05:57 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/02/covid-19-spilling-out-of-hospitals-and-care-homes-says-uk-expert'Coronavirus infections in hospitals and care homes are spilling into the community and sustaining the outbreak to the point that cases will remain steady until September, a leading scientist has warned. Prof Neil Ferguson, the head of the outbreak influential modelling group at Imperial College London, said he was shocked at how poorly care homes had been protected from the virus and that infections in UK care homes and hospitals were now feeding into the epidemic in the wider community'. The scientists are now turning on the politicians for the decisions made it would seem. And rightly so.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 2, 2020 19:10:48 GMT 1
It's ridiculous, the government has had over 3 months now to sort out some of these issues, including care homes and still hasn't
And why are there so many issues with people getting tests?!
We've known since before the first case was reported here that the disease could be present in people who didn't have symptoms so could easily be spread, but even now it seems you can only get a test if you have symptoms
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 8:35:43 GMT 1
It's ridiculous, the government has had over 3 months now to sort out some of these issues, including care homes and still hasn't And why are there so many issues with people getting tests?! We've known since before the first case was reported here that the disease could be present in people who didn't have symptoms so could easily be spread, but even now it seems you can only get a test if you have symptoms which sums up how usless our goverment is, it also highlights why the WHO have the mantra test,test and test again.as in previous on this this thread it was due to us not been able to as we did not do it as we did not have the capacity despit having a window of time to get it up and running.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 10:51:59 GMT 1
the welsh assembly has made its fair share of mistakes but they seem more cautious than England and actually having trace track and protec up and running befor a significant easinbg of the lock down seems sensible; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-52861409"It's a new and major system, and we will learn a lot from the first day or so of it," he said. He said there would be 600 contact tracers in Wales dealing with "somewhere over" 100 positive tests from the weekend. Pilots of contact tracing in Wales found that on average every person who had a positive test had five other close contacts, with an average of a half hour conversation needed with each person. "And when you put all that together, it says to us that we've got the resources in place to deal with the numbers that will come through the system each day this week." "The Welsh Government also plans to use the UK government's NHSX Covid-19 app, which could help with contact tracing by using Bluetooth signals and is being piloted in the Isle of Wight. Mr Drakeford said they would use it "provided it completes its trial phase satisfactorily".
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 10:54:22 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/52886413Cardiff City and Swansea City have returned to contact training ahead of the Championship's return, which is scheduled for 20 June.Players have been back in training since 25 May, but have so far only taken part in non-contact sessions. The English Football League (EFL) has set out stringent protocols for clubs to follow as training resumes.No Championship games have been played since 8 March, with the campaign suspended five days later.There are 108 matches remaining, plus the play-off semi-finals and final. Both Welsh clubs are in contention to make the play-offs.A member of Cardiff's staff is self-isolating after testing positive for Covid-19 in recent testing."
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 3, 2020 11:31:58 GMT 1
Trump was promoting the idea that this virus might have originated in Wuhan's biological research establishment. Now that was probably just Trump being Trump, but if a new virus started in the Salisbury area we would have taken extreme measures immediately in case it was something that had got out of Porton Down, maybe we, Trump included, should have in this case? Anyway, I take the report that China’s Ministry of Agriculture has published a new “catalogue” with what can be sold in markets as evidence that the Chinese government really does think that Covid 19 originated in the wet markets and not the research establishment: China takes dog meat off restaurant menus in post-Covid shiftThe thought of dog meat, bats et al seems pretty awful in the western world but are sheep’s brains, sweetbreads etc any better? We can’t be complacent, it’s said that 50% of infectious diseases originate in domesticated animals. For instance, measles comes from cattle. Scientists have warned that factory farming in the West will result in new Covid type diseases. A BBC investigation in 2012 found wild animal meat in London markets and a customs search at Charles de Gaulle airport found substantial amounts of wild animal meat in the luggage of arrivals from Africa.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 12:04:42 GMT 1
The thought of dog meat, bats et al seems pretty awful in the western world but are sheep’s brains, sweetbreads etc any better? We can’t be complacent, it’s said that 50% of infectious diseases originate in domesticated animals. For instance, measles comes from cattle. Scientists have warned that factory farming in the West will result in new Covid type diseases. A BBC investigation in 2012 found wild animal meat in London markets and a customs search at Charles de Gaulle airport found substantial amounts of wild animal meat in the luggage of arrivals from Africa. we need to be a lot more stringent with our customs checks and follow australias tough aproach to infringments of there laws on what you are allowed in through customs.you only have togoogle australians customs and contraband to see how much they seize through been thourough and vigilant( not words i would use with border force or uk customs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 12:10:23 GMT 1
'In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. Under the government guidance, patients who tested positive for coronavirus were allowed to be sent from hospitals to care homes. The second document states that “Negative tests are not required prior to transfers / admissions into the care home.” Matt Hancock finally pledged on 15th April to start testing all hospital patients before they are discharged to care homes'. Daily Telegraph. from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens what do they class as senior citizens? People over 60/70/80? The reason I ask is that there are many people over 60 who are still working (many not out of choice but necessity) and contributing positively to not only the economy but also to the community.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 3, 2020 13:17:25 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 3, 2020 13:42:48 GMT 1
Car showrooms open, but because of social distancing rules, the salesmen can't accompany customers on test drives.
You can just see what's inevitably going to happen!
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 13:58:46 GMT 1
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wales-to-open-all-schools-on-29-june-for-four-week-term-11999699"All schools in Wales will reopen on 29 June, the country's education minister has said. Kirsty Williams said the four-week term will end on 27 July and will see staggered starts, lessons and breaks for different year groups. Only a third of pupils at most will be in school at any one time.Teachers will be prioritised for antibody testing, the education minister said. Ms Williams said the shorter term would give pupils, staff and parents time to prepare for a "new normal" when the next academic year begins in September" a pragmatic and sensible aproach
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 3, 2020 14:09:02 GMT 1
www.ft.com/content/3c53ab12-d859-4ceb-b262-f6a0221ca129this only includes data up to May22nd "England and Wales recorded another high level of coronavirus related deaths in the week ending May 22, taking the total excess deaths in the UK to almost 62,000 since the outbreak of the pandemic. The Office for National Statistics said on Tuesday that 12,288 deaths were registered in that week in England and Wales, 24 per cent more than normal for a week in mid-May, adding another 2,348 to the UK total excess deaths in the 10 weeks since the total rose above the past five-year average. Excess deaths is considered the best measure of the impact of coronavirus on mortality because it is not affected by different methods of testing for the virus, the assessment of doctors or whether deaths outside hospitals are included in the figures.It includes deaths caused directly by coronavirus and those caused indirectly if normal pathways to hospitals are blocked or people are unwilling to seek treatment. Mr Stripe said there was evidence that the government’s daily figures, even though they now included deaths in care homes, significantly underestimated the true level of mortality from Covid-19. “Covid-related death registrations are running 31 per cent higher than the daily numbers reported at the time,” he said. When data for Scotland and Northern Ireland are included, it means 61,920 more people than normal have died across the UK in the period, a rate of 929 per million, which is again the highest rate among countries with comparable data."
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 3, 2020 14:12:06 GMT 1
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wales-to-open-all-schools-on-29-june-for-four-week-term-11999699"All schools in Wales will reopen on 29 June, the country's education minister has said. Kirsty Williams said the four-week term will end on 27 July and will see staggered starts, lessons and breaks for different year groups. Only a third of pupils at most will be in school at any one time.Teachers will be prioritised for antibody testing, the education minister said. Ms Williams said the shorter term would give pupils, staff and parents time to prepare for a "new normal" when the next academic year begins in September" a pragmatic and sensible aproach Sensible? What’s sensible about prioritising anti body testing for teachers when there’s no proof anti bodies stop you spreading or catching the virus? Why open to all year groups at the same time and then limit daily attendance to 1/3 of pupils? They’ve extended the summer term by a week rather than start a week earlier on say 22nd Which sounds more sensible... Infection rate per million is much higher in Wales than most parts of England I think the Welsh have shouted a lot but sensible or affective I’m not sure
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 3, 2020 14:18:38 GMT 1
from an infection control point of view this was madness, it also highlights how little value this goverment has for its senior citizens what do they class as senior citizens? People over 60/70/80? The reason I ask is that there are many people over 60 who are still working (many not out of choice but necessity) and contributing positively to not only the economy but also to the community. You can probably cross out the word senior, this government valued saving a run down NHS from collapse and now values easing up restrictions to get the economy running again.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 3, 2020 14:24:00 GMT 1
Car showrooms open, but because of social distancing rules, the salesmen can't accompany customers on test drives. You can just see what's inevitably going to happen! I’ve bought my last 3 cars from Mitchell’s at Ellesmere Port, they have always had unaccompanied test drives.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 3, 2020 14:58:15 GMT 1
Car showrooms open, but because of social distancing rules, the salesmen can't accompany customers on test drives. You can just see what's inevitably going to happen! I’ve bought my last 3 cars from Mitchell’s at Ellesmere Port, they have always had unaccompanied test drives. I must have bought at least a dozen new Mitsubishi cars from Gallaghers of Sandycroft. So I think they'd let me loose on a test drive!
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