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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on May 31, 2020 21:12:38 GMT 1
Fair play that’s impressive; a day early as the article says. Well done to all those involved. 200K available tests that could in theory be completed in a day is an insane ramping up of capacity.
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 31, 2020 22:48:50 GMT 1
Fair play that’s impressive; a day early as the article says. Well done to all those involved. 200K available tests that could in theory be completed in a day is an insane ramping up of capacity. What is the point in capacity when people who need tests cant get them?
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Post by Pilch on May 31, 2020 23:48:34 GMT 1
I think we should get you one of these ;-)
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 6:45:34 GMT 1
Fair play that’s impressive; a day early as the article says. Well done to all those involved. 200K available tests that could in theory be completed in a day is an insane ramping up of capacity. What is the point in capacity when people who need tests cant get them? To be able to say you've hit the 200,000 target, when you haven't as yet even made the 100,000 mark on any day. See P.14 of 'The Daily Briefing' thread for the details.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 8:34:33 GMT 1
Good points made by the Telegraph about test and trace:
Should a free society tolerate the introduction of a witch finder surveillance system in which anyone who happens to test positive for a virus is permitted to trigger the incarceration of any other person for 14 days, possibly in solitary confinement if he or she is the sole member of the household, simply by naming them, without any fear of being identified as the “accuser”?
Will the person doing the naming automatically be believed? Will there be any conceivable defence for those so named against such an allegation - considering that it is not possible to learn who has made it? What power will it put into the hands of, say, a malicious, or just mischievous, seeker of revenge against a professional rival or an estranged sexual partner?
But even assuming that there is no gratuitous or deliberate misuse of this awesome capability, what kind of precedent does it set? Is it acceptable, on principle, for any unvetted individual to have the authority, simply by his unsubstantiated testimony, to inflict what would generally be regarded as punishment without trial on any number of other citizens? Even someone accused of a major crime has a legal right to know the identity of his accuser and to defend himself against the charge.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 9:41:17 GMT 1
Good points made by the Telegraph about test and trace: Should a free society tolerate the introduction of a witch finder surveillance system in which anyone who happens to test positive for a virus is permitted to trigger the incarceration of any other person for 14 days, possibly in solitary confinement if he or she is the sole member of the household, simply by naming them, without any fear of being identified as the “accuser”? Will the person doing the naming automatically be believed? Will there be any conceivable defence for those so named against such an allegation - considering that it is not possible to learn who has made it? What power will it put into the hands of, say, a malicious, or just mischievous, seeker of revenge against a professional rival or an estranged sexual partner? But even assuming that there is no gratuitous or deliberate misuse of this awesome capability, what kind of precedent does it set? Is it acceptable, on principle, for any unvetted individual to have the authority, simply by his unsubstantiated testimony, to inflict what would generally be regarded as punishment without trial on any number of other citizens? Even someone accused of a major crime has a legal right to know the identity of his accuser and to defend himself against the charge. Don't suppose they wait for test results before instigating tracing. But, if subsequently the person who got you into self isolating comes back negative presumably the tracers get back to you and tell you it's a false alarm? So anyone who doesn't actually have the virus can only put you "inside" for a day or two.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 11:14:41 GMT 1
My first question if the tracers contact me "Is this because of a confirmed positive test result?"
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 1, 2020 11:45:59 GMT 1
this stage of easing lockdown has with everything the goverment have done is utterly shambolic, combined with safe distancing and common sense thrown out the widow.
i agree that schools should be reopen but one age group at a time and phase it in.
they seem to have ignored scientific advice , letting people who are shielding to have contact with people whilst the R number is at its current levels makes no sense. three weeks time we will have a mssive surge in cases.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 11:51:39 GMT 1
this stage of easing lockdown has with everything the goverment have done is utterly shambolic, combined with safe distancing and common sense thrown out the widow. i agree that schools should be reopen but one age group at a time and phase it in. they seem to have ignored scientific advice , letting people who are shielding to have contact with people whilst the R number is at its current levels makes no sense. three weeks time we will have a mssive surge in cases. The scientists are coming out and saying exactly that. All too quick. Will the UV level in the sunshine save us from this folly?
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 12:36:22 GMT 1
Meanwhile, the legal profession is picking over the new regulations:
'As I read this, unless you live together, it’s now unlawful to have sex with your lover indoors, but fine outdoors (subject to public decency offences); but you can have sex with an escort indoors, as that is reasonably necessary for their work purposes (see 7(d)(i))'. George Peretz QC.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 13:15:22 GMT 1
Meanwhile, the legal profession is picking over the new regulations: 'As I read this, unless you live together, it’s now unlawful to have sex with your lover indoors, but fine outdoors (subject to public decency offences); but you can have sex with an escort indoors, as that is reasonably necessary for their work purposes (see 7(d)(i))'. George Peretz QC. Jeez, roads will be jammed on the way to Cannock chase, but please, don't smoke after the sex, the whole area is a fire risk after all this dry weather.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 13:19:07 GMT 1
Meanwhile, the legal profession is picking over the new regulations: 'As I read this, unless you live together, it’s now unlawful to have sex with your lover indoors, but fine outdoors (subject to public decency offences); but you can have sex with an escort indoors, as that is reasonably necessary for their work purposes (see 7(d)(i))'. George Peretz QC. Jeez, roads will be jammed on the way to Cannock chase, but please, don't smoke after the sex, the whole area is a fire risk after all this dry weather. Delamere Forest should have its enthusiasts too. Ah, memories, memories! lol
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 13:51:12 GMT 1
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2020 14:02:58 GMT 1
My first question if the tracers contact me "Is this because of a confirmed positive test result?" They only trace after a positive test 👍 If you think you’ve got symptoms you apply for a test on line. If test is positive you’ll be contacted by a tracer who’ll ask for names of anyone you’ve been in close contact with. Should only be members of your household or possibly colleagues if your working in certain industries as social isolation is still in place..... I do wonder if your asked you can have a test, just got to say you’ve got a cough, then if negative do you still have to self isolate? www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-52829357
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 1, 2020 14:51:13 GMT 1
this stage of easing lockdown has with everything the goverment have done is utterly shambolic, combined with safe distancing and common sense thrown out the widow. i agree that schools should be reopen but one age group at a time and phase it in. they seem to have ignored scientific advice , letting people who are shielding to have contact with people whilst the R number is at its current levels makes no sense. three weeks time we will have a mssive surge in cases. The scientists are coming out and saying exactly that. All too quick. Will the UV level in the sunshine save us from this folly? not all of them www.itv.com/news/2020-05-30/scientists-government-advisers-warn-against-early-lockdown-easing-lifting-england-coronavirus-covid19/"A top scientific adviser to the government has warned easing lockdown measures in England is "taking a bit of a risk" amid the coronavirus crisis. Professor John Edmunds OBE sits the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) - advising ministers on its response to the pandemic. The Professor has warned Covid-19 incidents remain "really quite high" in England, warning on the easing of restrictions: "We can't lift things very much at all". It comes as competitive sport in England has been given the go ahead to return from Monday, while Boris Johnson announced new freedoms for the clinically extremely vulnerable shielding through the crisis." from the mail "Families are set to see elderly relatives today as the lockdown is partially eased Vulnerable people who have been 'shielding' are allowed to spend time outdoors But Dr Stephen Griffin said the move 'seems to lack any obvious rationale' He claimed that it seems merely to 'add to an ongoing ''good news'' narrative' But Dr Stephen Griffin, associate professor at the University of Leeds' school of medicine, told the Guardian the move 'seems to lack any obvious rationale other than to add to an ongoing ''good news'' narrative that appears to have little grounding in reality'.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 15:52:57 GMT 1
The head of the World Health Organisation famously told governments to “test, test, test” – but on March 12, the UK Government abandoned routine testing in favour of asking people with symptoms to stay at home. Today we can reveal why that decision was taken – and it proves, beyond doubt, that Public Health England (PHE) is not fit for purpose.
Newly released papers from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies show that PHE’s testing capacity was pathetically inadequate. According to the minutes of one key meeting, PHE could only cope with five (yes, just five) new cases a week, requiring what it then believed would be the isolation of 800 people; at best, it was hoped they could stretch this to 50 new cases a week.
That was the real reason why Britain gave up on test and trace, a vital policy that is only now being rolled out properly and which is still plagued with problems. PHE’s utter inability to test – and inability to fix the problem quickly, perhaps by turning to the private sector – has had devastating consequences.
Britain’s appallingly slow response to Covid-19 is an indictment of its bureaucracy. There was planning, yes, but modelled on the wrong sort of infection. Britain turned out to be woefully under-resourced for personal protective equipment. The low number of tests was blamed on the lack of a domestic diagnostic industry, which only begs the question, why don’t we have one? And PHE was even accused of turning away offers of outside help. Given its own lack of capacity, this was outrageous.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 1, 2020 16:09:24 GMT 1
The head of the World Health Organisation famously told governments to “test, test, test” – but on March 12, the UK Government abandoned routine testing in favour of asking people with symptoms to stay at home. Today we can reveal why that decision was taken – and it proves, beyond doubt, that Public Health England (PHE) is not fit for purpose. Newly released papers from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies show that PHE’s testing capacity was pathetically inadequate. According to the minutes of one key meeting, PHE could only cope with five (yes, just five) new cases a week, requiring what it then believed would be the isolation of 800 people; at best, it was hoped they could stretch this to 50 new cases a week. That was the real reason why Britain gave up on test and trace, a vital policy that is only now being rolled out properly and which is still plagued with problems. PHE’s utter inability to test – and inability to fix the problem quickly, perhaps by turning to the private sector – has had devastating consequences. Britain’s appallingly slow response to Covid-19 is an indictment of its bureaucracy. There was planning, yes, but modelled on the wrong sort of infection. Britain turned out to be woefully under-resourced for personal protective equipment. The low number of tests was blamed on the lack of a domestic diagnostic industry, which only begs the question, why don’t we have one? And PHE was even accused of turning away offers of outside help. Given its own lack of capacity, this was outrageous. Daily Telegraph. despite all of this conservatives popularity briefly dropped with cummings infamour drive and is bouncing back, peoples stupidity knows no bounds
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 1, 2020 16:15:05 GMT 1
BBC Wales "Two people from east London have been caught driving through Wales in the middle of the night despite apparently trying to steer clear of police carrying out lockdown checks by avoiding main roads. Officers from Dyfed-Powys Police stopped a black Audi as it was travelling near St Clears in Carmarthenshire during the early hours of Monday morning. The vehicle had been driven all the way from Ilford - a distance of around 240 miles. Furthermore, the car's occupants - a man and a woman - admitted that they were heading for St Brides Bay, a village on the Pembrokeshire coast which is a round trip of around 580 miles from their home address. They were reported for breaching lockdown regulations and told to return home."
The police are catching significant numbers of people doing this , personally i would impound there car and make them go home by train.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 1, 2020 16:24:45 GMT 1
The head of the World Health Organisation famously told governments to “test, test, test” – but on March 12, the UK Government abandoned routine testing in favour of asking people with symptoms to stay at home. Today we can reveal why that decision was taken – and it proves, beyond doubt, that Public Health England (PHE) is not fit for purpose. Newly released papers from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies show that PHE’s testing capacity was pathetically inadequate. According to the minutes of one key meeting, PHE could only cope with five (yes, just five) new cases a week, requiring what it then believed would be the isolation of 800 people; at best, it was hoped they could stretch this to 50 new cases a week. That was the real reason why Britain gave up on test and trace, a vital policy that is only now being rolled out properly and which is still plagued with problems. PHE’s utter inability to test – and inability to fix the problem quickly, perhaps by turning to the private sector – has had devastating consequences. Britain’s appallingly slow response to Covid-19 is an indictment of its bureaucracy. There was planning, yes, but modelled on the wrong sort of infection. Britain turned out to be woefully under-resourced for personal protective equipment. The low number of tests was blamed on the lack of a domestic diagnostic industry, which only begs the question, why don’t we have one? And PHE was even accused of turning away offers of outside help. Given its own lack of capacity, this was outrageous. Daily Telegraph. despite all of this conservatives popularity briefly dropped with cummings infamour drive and is bouncing back, peoples stupidity knows no bounds Some of us on here do our best zenfootball2, but reading the responses by readers to articles in the Mail and the Telegraph just seems to reinforce your point. Most seem to think that any criticism of the government is by Remainers. Brexit is etched deep into their psyche, and of course Cummings was instrumental in that.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 1, 2020 17:09:39 GMT 1
despite all of this conservatives popularity briefly dropped with cummings infamour drive and is bouncing back, peoples stupidity knows no bounds Some of us on here do our best zenfootball2, but reading the responses by readers to articles in the Mail and the Telegraph just seems to reinforce your point. Most seem to think that any criticism of the government is by Remainers. Brexit is etched deep into their psyche, and of course Cummings was instrumental in that. very true
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2020 18:23:14 GMT 1
BBC Wales "Two people from east London have been caught driving through Wales in the middle of the night despite apparently trying to steer clear of police carrying out lockdown checks by avoiding main roads. Officers from Dyfed-Powys Police stopped a black Audi as it was travelling near St Clears in Carmarthenshire during the early hours of Monday morning. The vehicle had been driven all the way from Ilford - a distance of around 240 miles. Furthermore, the car's occupants - a man and a woman - admitted that they were heading for St Brides Bay, a village on the Pembrokeshire coast which is a round trip of around 580 miles from their home address. They were reported for breaching lockdown regulations and told to return home." The police are catching significant numbers of people doing this , personally i would impound there car and make them go home by train. Disagree with you on that, I can jump in the car and drive to Newquay in Cornwall, but I can't drive to Newquay in Wales. The United Kingdom is truly dead and buried. But, once the shops and restaurants start to open in England the business community will be putting tremendous pressure on the Welsh government to relax the rules. With little or no foreign holidays there is a great deal of money just waiting to be spent in Wales.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 1, 2020 18:24:59 GMT 1
The head of the World Health Organisation famously told governments to “test, test, test” – but on March 12, the UK Government abandoned routine testing in favour of asking people with symptoms to stay at home. Today we can reveal why that decision was taken – and it proves, beyond doubt, that Public Health England (PHE) is not fit for purpose. Newly released papers from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies show that PHE’s testing capacity was pathetically inadequate. According to the minutes of one key meeting, PHE could only cope with five (yes, just five) new cases a week, requiring what it then believed would be the isolation of 800 people; at best, it was hoped they could stretch this to 50 new cases a week. That was the real reason why Britain gave up on test and trace, a vital policy that is only now being rolled out properly and which is still plagued with problems. PHE’s utter inability to test – and inability to fix the problem quickly, perhaps by turning to the private sector – has had devastating consequences. Britain’s appallingly slow response to Covid-19 is an indictment of its bureaucracy. There was planning, yes, but modelled on the wrong sort of infection. Britain turned out to be woefully under-resourced for personal protective equipment. The low number of tests was blamed on the lack of a domestic diagnostic industry, which only begs the question, why don’t we have one? And PHE was even accused of turning away offers of outside help. Given its own lack of capacity, this was outrageous. Daily Telegraph. Thing is it was the Tory party that reorganised the NHS including moving public health to local authorities, who created public health england and did this against large amounts of medical bodies advice and claimed it was to reduce bureaucracy and since then they are the ones who have cut the public health budget, so....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 19:31:32 GMT 1
Carding Mill Valley was choc a bloc over the weekend. The reason I heard given was that most , traveling from the West Midlands , decided it was the best option after realizing that Wales didn’t want them . Mind you the vast majority of Welsh that I know don’t want Wrexham . Maybe we can agree to call Wrexham a no go zone and leave it to rot .
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Jun 1, 2020 23:10:32 GMT 1
Agreed, crazy how busy it’s been, which is why I’d echo northwestman’s praise of the authorities re: the 200K tests per day figure. Will make a huge difference in combating the folly of the underclasses.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 8:22:47 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 8:44:56 GMT 1
Depends on which way you view this, I would say its the greed of private care homes which will be their downfall, and will come under greater scrutiny in the future. This pandemic has shown what is really bad about the vocal minority in this country, and its worse than the virus itself.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 2, 2020 8:45:55 GMT 1
“The scandal here is the repeated failure of politicians to solve our long running social-care crisis.” Sort of sums it up! I do wonder why Care Homes accepted the patients back from the NHS hospitals? They can only discharge a patient once ongoing care is confirmed. If I was a Care Home manager I’d have simply refused to accept the patient back without a test. Can only think it was down to pressure from the hospital but as we never reached 50% ICU capacity surely the elderly would have been better cared for by the NHS rather than an underpaid care assistant in a care home.....
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 8:51:12 GMT 1
Depends on which way you view this, I would say its the greed of private care homes which will be their downfall, and will come under greater scrutiny in the future. To be fair, the article recognises that too. 'In 1979 two-thirds of care was NHS- or council-run, but now 84% is for-profit. You can watch this bizarre market of care-home sales and takeovers in the trade magazine Health Investor or Knight Frank reports: the money and property enticed in private equity with funds in tax havens'. 'The former Tory pensions minister Ros Altmann has slammed big care companies, “bought up by hedge-funders at knockdown prices, loaded with debt, tripling their money”.'
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 2, 2020 8:53:08 GMT 1
Depends on which way you view this, I would say its the greed of private care homes which will be their downfall, and will come under greater scrutiny in the future. This pandemic has shown what is really bad about the vocal minority in this country, and its worse than the virus itself. Almost as bad as defending the indefensible ! The problem is Private care homes become the only option cos all the ‘public’ ones have been closed..If you believe the private ones are inadequate then why are they allowed to be? Thought you’d be all for individuals to be entrepreneurs and make money from their businesses just need correct government control in place....
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Post by northwestman on Jun 2, 2020 9:03:25 GMT 1
“The scandal here is the repeated failure of politicians to solve our long running social-care crisis.” Sort of sums it up! I do wonder why Care Homes accepted the patients back from the NHS hospitals? They can only discharge a patient once ongoing care is confirmed. If I was a Care Home manager I’d have simply refused to accept the patient back without a test. Can only think it was down to pressure from the hospital but as we never reached 50% ICU capacity surely the elderly would have been better cared for by the NHS rather than an underpaid care assistant in a care home..... 'In two damning policy documents published on 19 March and 2 April, officials told NHS hospitals to transfer any patients who no longer required hospital level treatment, and set out a blueprint for care homes to accept patients with Covid-19 or who had not even been tested. Under the government guidance, patients who tested positive for coronavirus were allowed to be sent from hospitals to care homes. The second document states that “Negative tests are not required prior to transfers / admissions into the care home.” Matt Hancock finally pledged on 15th April to start testing all hospital patients before they are discharged to care homes'. Daily Telegraph.
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