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Post by staffordshrew on May 15, 2020 18:08:13 GMT 1
A precedent has been set then. One of the World's finest clubs, a club I know you hold in high regard, has refused refunds.
You can sit in a plastic bag like everyone else will.
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Post by Pilch on May 15, 2020 19:19:49 GMT 1
A precedent has been set then. One of the World's finest clubs, a club I know you hold in high regard, has refused refunds. You can sit in a plastic bag like everyone else will. wow you made a joke about it dear o dear
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 16, 2020 9:39:28 GMT 1
Sweden vs other Scandanavian countries link
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 16, 2020 10:37:50 GMT 1
Sweden vs other Scandanavian countries linkQuestionable table there. Compares nearly 2 months of UK data with only a month or less in some of the other countries on the list. Either way, the question remains what in God's name have Germany been doing that we're not and why aren't we now? Is it just pure luck?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 10:55:39 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 16, 2020 11:04:54 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 11:16:19 GMT 1
Sweden vs other Scandanavian countries linkQuestionable table there. Compares nearly 2 months of UK data with only a month or less in some of the other countries on the list. Either way, the question remains what in God's name have Germany been doing that we're not and why aren't we now? Is it just pure luck? no you have had two very different approaches Sweden and the rest of the world , the countrys who did well in lockdown got on top of traching tracing and monitoring very early with large numbers of people tested. Germany acted on who's notification that there would be supply issues of medication, PPE and equipment, they ordered 10,000 new ventilators, they had state and private labs working in harmony to ramp up testing numbers.Germany rected when things started going badly for poor Italy. the uk stoped tracing very early because it could not cope that was down to intial complacency , a complete lack of preperation despit having a large window of time to prepare then confused, chaotic incompetent goverment and poor leadership so luck had nothing to do with it.also they did a major u turn because of the falty model from Prof Ferguson.who on earth changes goverment policy on a unproven model thisan article & model that was rejected by SAGE .
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 11:21:05 GMT 1
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 16, 2020 12:29:10 GMT 1
Interesting stats. Nurses starting salary 2010 - £21,176. Nurses starting salary 2018 - £21,909. Increase - 3.46% MP's starting salary 2010 - £65,738. MP's starting salary 2018 - £77,379. Increase - 17.7% All in it together, Brothers and Sisters.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 12:35:27 GMT 1
Interesting stats. Nurses starting salary 20100 - £21,176. Nurses starting salary 2018 - £21,909. Increase - 3.46% MP's starting salary 2010 - £65,738. MP's starting salary 2018 - £77,379. Increase - 17.7% All in it together, Brothers and Sisters. they gave themeslevs a series of large payments when NHS staff had a pay freeze, the conservatives clapped when they voted against a nurses pay rise.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 12:46:07 GMT 1
when this is all over; there should be an independent investigation of chinas responces to covid -19 personally i would have Dr Anders Tegnell to lead it. equally the WHO should also face an independent investigation; during the Abola outbreak the WHO got on top of it early they issued directives restricting access to the country and asked for a flight ban. SARS 2002-2004 they designated it as a pandemic look how differently they reacted to Covid-19 and why?
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Post by northwestman on May 16, 2020 14:12:27 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 16:51:20 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 16, 2020 19:15:40 GMT 1
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/09/ae-attendances-lowest-point-since-records-began-amid-coronavirus/whilst many people will be avoiding A&E who should be going but dont due to fears of Covid-19,with such a dramatic drop in numbers it does beg the question if you can manage without going how many of this vast number should not be going to A&E at all. "A&E attendances at lowest point since records began amid coronavirus outbreak, Total of 1.53 million attendances recorded in March, a 29 per cent drop on 2.17 million attendances in same month last year"
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Post by staffordshrew on May 16, 2020 22:40:04 GMT 1
The new world order is emerging. JCB say that they have half the normal orders and have started a 45 day consultation period to sack up to 950, thay have already laid off 500 agency workers. A drop in orders does mean less staff, but I do wonder how much of this is to do with being able to more easily set up social distancing in the workplace when you have fewer workers about? After all, there is bound to be a huge drop in orders right this minute with the world only just peeping out from lockdown. Up to 950 jobs set to be axed at JCB as result of coronavirusI would not want to an agency worker anywhere at the moment.
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 16, 2020 23:53:09 GMT 1
Interesting stats. Nurses starting salary 2010 - £21,176. Nurses starting salary 2018 - £21,909. Increase - 3.46% MP's starting salary 2010 - £65,738. MP's starting salary 2018 - £77,379. Increase - 17.7% All in it together, Brothers and Sisters. That's a bit too simplistic. Nurses have also had their bursary removed.....
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on May 17, 2020 0:02:34 GMT 1
Interesting stats. Nurses starting salary 2010 - £21,176. Nurses starting salary 2018 - £21,909. Increase - 3.46% MP's starting salary 2010 - £65,738. MP's starting salary 2018 - £77,379. Increase - 17.7% All in it together, Brothers and Sisters. That's a bit too simplistic. Nurses have also had their bursary removed..... It certainly is overly simplistic. Kelvin MacKenzie seems to have hacked jt’s account. How do I report this to a moderator?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 1:33:56 GMT 1
That's a bit too simplistic. Nurses have also had their bursary removed..... It certainly is overly simplistic. Kelvin MacKenzie seems to have hacked jt’s account. How do I report this to a moderator? In the same manner by which I’m going to report you to a moderator if you don’t pack it in .
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 17, 2020 7:19:55 GMT 1
The new world order is emerging. JCB say that they have half the normal orders and have started a 45 day consultation period to sack up to 950, thay have already laid off 500 agency workers. A drop in orders does mean less staff, but I do wonder how much of this is to do with being able to more easily set up social distancing in the workplace when you have fewer workers about? After all, there is bound to be a huge drop in orders right this minute with the world only just peeping out from lockdown. Up to 950 jobs set to be axed at JCB as result of coronavirusI would not want to an agency worker anywhere at the moment. bearing in mind that JCB have a good reputation with regards realtionship withere workers and the wages structure in the company, dread to think how the companies with less favourable reputations will react.
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Post by armchairfan on May 17, 2020 11:02:24 GMT 1
I wonder whether anyone on here has any thoughts as to the possible consequences if we continue with this lockdown, and insistence upon the "2-metre rule" even if slightly loosened. A few spring immediately to mind: The decimation of virtually all manufacturing and business
Mass unemployment
Destruction of the tax base, leaving public services (including the NHS) unfunded and unfundable. No NHS.... just imagine....
No public education services (no schools or universities)
No public transport which depends upon "buns on seats"
No leisure travel, except by private car
No national defence expenditure
The destruction of the "Green Belt" - any workplaces which somehow manage to survive would need to be orders of magnitude larger in order to maintain social distancing
An increase in mental instability among the population
Increased crime rates
Some of these are unpalatable to say the least, some are environmentally unfavourable, and there are doubtlessly other unforseen, indeed, unforeseeable consequences
Any contributions?
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Post by northwestman on May 17, 2020 11:23:56 GMT 1
I wonder whether anyone on here has any thoughts as to the possible consequences if we continue with this lockdown, and insistence upon the "2-metre rule" even if slightly loosened. A few spring immediately to mind: The decimation of virtually all manufacturing and business Mass unemployment Destruction of the tax base, leaving public services (including the NHS) unfunded and unfundable. No NHS.... just imagine.... No public education services (no schools or universities) No public transport which depends upon "buns on seats" No leisure travel, except by private car No national defence expenditure The destruction of the "Green Belt" - any workplaces which somehow manage to survive would need to be orders of magnitude larger in order to maintain social distancing An increase in mental instability among the population Increased crime rates Some of these are unpalatable to say the least, some are environmentally unfavourable, and there are doubtlessly other unforseen, indeed, unforeseeable consequences Any contributions? The millionaires in the Cabinet and outside (have you seen how much Hunt is worth?) will somehow muddle through I'm sure.
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 17, 2020 11:27:23 GMT 1
I think a lot depends on how long it goes on for. The Job Retention and Self Employed Income schemes are treated as taxable income so the impact on the tax base is perhaps not as severe as some might fear. Similarly, government are able to borrow very cheaply so the impact if finance payments on the £330bn borrowings are probably not as huge as you might think either (of course, we are still left with an extra 330bn needing refinancing at some point but given how much government debt the DMO have been able to sell off at incredibly low rates of return it doesn't look like that will be a problem any time soon either).
In theory if we can get out of this by autumn and a majority of businesses can pick up where they left off, it might not actually be so bad. I think there's definitely a case for keeping the lockdown running as long as required to get R right down so at least people can go back to work with some surety. My worry is that by easing up too soon we'll just find ourselves right back at square one in a month or two's time. That really will destroy the economy.
If the mass redundancies and business failures are already underway though, it'll be a different story. Next week's unemployment figures will be an interesting read with some sources claiming an extra 1.2 million new claims.
A normal government would see that as the time for the public sector to step in; increase investment in public services to offset some of the jobs lost and stimulate demand in the economy. This could combat some of the negative side effects mentioned like increase in crime and poverty. We know that BoJo has already committed to the extra £350m for the NHS but Sunak gas been making less than cryptic references to austerity 2.0. A lot will hinge on which path the Tories take, whether they use the crisis as a way to ditch austerity for good or whether they double down on it. If the latter, I think we really will be in the darkest time line.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 12:27:41 GMT 1
I don’t think Boris will want to go down the austerity route .The Tory’s tried that and the country is still recovering from this ill thought out policy . I agree that it will indeed , be a dark day if this were to happen.
We will just have to get our heads around a “ new world “ ,a very different way of living . Trouble is there are enough people eager to continue living their lives as before . Just look at the recent incident in Telford when a group , fed up with living with lockdown , thought it would be good to hold a rave . It really beggars belief .
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Post by northwestman on May 17, 2020 13:27:54 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on May 17, 2020 14:00:09 GMT 1
maybe it shows how much England needed to control the borders and get out of the EU, might not have been so bad had the opposition & co not dragged it out for years, they certainly might have had more time to concentrate on this instead of brexit and having to run elections etc , and still the opposition moan and hinder progress
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 17, 2020 15:36:35 GMT 1
maybe it shows how much England needed to control the borders and get out of the EU, might not have been so bad had the opposition & co not dragged it out for years, they certainly might have had more time to concentrate on this instead of brexit and having to run elections etc , and still the opposition moan and hinder progress Are you suggesting that Brits would have stopped travelling if we had been out of the EU earlier? In 2018 there were 28 million visits by U.K. nationals to France, Spain and Italy alone.
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Post by Pilch on May 17, 2020 16:16:13 GMT 1
maybe it shows how much England needed to control the borders and get out of the EU, might not have been so bad had the opposition & co not dragged it out for years, they certainly might have had more time to concentrate on this instead of brexit and having to run elections etc , and still the opposition moan and hinder progress Are you suggesting that Brits would have stopped travelling if we had been out of the EU earlier? In 2018 there were 28 million visits by U.K. nationals to France, Spain and Italy alone. what I'm suggesting is less would have been travelling, not a great percentage but yes less, and instead of focusing on elections and brexit last December the rumours of this virus may have been given more time and attention , we would also have had better preparation for who can and can't enter the country, its all speculation but I think we may have been in a slightly better place now
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 16:38:00 GMT 1
maybe it shows how much England needed to control the borders and get out of the EU, might not have been so bad had the opposition & co not dragged it out for years, they certainly might have had more time to concentrate on this instead of brexit and having to run elections etc , and still the opposition moan and hinder progress Are you suggesting that Brits would have stopped travelling if we had been out of the EU earlier? In 2018 there were 28 million visits by U.K. nationals to France, Spain and Italy alone. Indeed. The UK's social links with the rest of Europe won't change and UK citizens will continue to travel regardless of border controls. Importantly nothing will change that when the UK leaves. For example, Owning or renting property in the EU
Rules about property ownership, rent, taxation and shared ownership have not changed. However, if you are buying a new property some EU countries have different property acquisition laws for EU citizens and non-EU citizens. Check with local authorities how these might apply to you.
www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-europeThose of us, like you, with strong links to Europe will just crack on and leave the 'little Englanders' to it.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 17, 2020 16:44:40 GMT 1
I wonder whether anyone on here has any thoughts as to the possible consequences if we continue with this lockdown, and insistence upon the "2-metre rule" even if slightly loosened. A few spring immediately to mind: The decimation of virtually all manufacturing and business Mass unemployment Destruction of the tax base, leaving public services (including the NHS) unfunded and unfundable. No NHS.... just imagine.... No public education services (no schools or universities) No public transport which depends upon "buns on seats" No leisure travel, except by private car No national defence expenditure The destruction of the "Green Belt" - any workplaces which somehow manage to survive would need to be orders of magnitude larger in order to maintain social distancing An increase in mental instability among the population Increased crime rates Some of these are unpalatable to say the least, some are environmentally unfavourable, and there are doubtlessly other unforseen, indeed, unforeseeable consequences Any contributions? The millionaires in the Cabinet and outside (have you seen how much Hunt is worth?) will somehow muddle through I'm sure. So, how the hell did Hunt get his millions? He's worthless, however much he has in the bank.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 17, 2020 16:58:10 GMT 1
Lockdown length: learn from history, with Spanish flu the second wave was at least as big as the first Life (as anything near normal: Vote for whoever seems to have the best plans every time you get a chance Industry: Unskilled labour will be put out of work in their droves to enable socially distanced work even though it will reduce output. As the economy steps up robots will do more in warehousing and maunfacturing, unskilled labour has only kept their jobs this long because they were cheaper and more flexible than robots. Destruction of the tax base: The bankers will find a way round that. No public education services (no schools or universities): There will be a lot more on line, especiially uni, they already catch up with recorded lectures and lots of online research. No public transport which depends upon "buns on seats": You may have the answer; deliveries and passengers, so some of the seats do have buns on seats and some bums. The "Post Bus" might be back.
Innovative skilled labour will be what gets us back on a new track The human species finds a way round, eventually.
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