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Post by SeanBroseley on May 12, 2020 14:33:50 GMT 1
Stay alert. Classic Conservative Party ideology - you're on your own. The messaging couldn't be clearer. Until the new cases and new deaths are down below the levels before lockdown there is no excuse for this. No political posts here. Nothing to see. Any comments on this at the time Vencermos? This bleating is like members of the Labour Party complaining that anti-semitism has been weaponised. Of course it has. That's poitics and you pick up whatever weapon is to hand to beat your opponents with. I will not abide the Conservative Party on this matter. Their goal remains herd immunity. Good luck to the herd. My priority is to survive without chronic ill-health. The Conservative Party's handling of this is a national scandal.
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Post by venceremos on May 12, 2020 14:44:34 GMT 1
Furlough scheme will last until OCTOBER at 80 percent of pay. The multi-billion pound furlough scheme is being extended to October. Employees on the scheme will continue to receive 80 per cent of wages, up to a ceiling of £2,500 a month. Until the end of July, there will be no changes to the scheme whatsoever. From August to October there will be 'greater flexibility' so furloughed employees can return to work part-time. Where employees do come back part-time, businesses will share the costs of paying their salaries. That's very generous indeed and seems to have taken some MPs by surprise. Sunak seems to be the minister who's had the "best" pandemic, to put it in crude political terms. It helps that he gets to distribute the cash where others don't, but he's also displayed a better understanding of the problems and concerns than his more confused and confusing colleagues. Nothing's ever perfect, of course - the hospitality sector, for example, is in a desperate state and will surely need support until we no longer need to socially distance. Bringing flexibility into the job retention scheme is a sensible way to facilitate the transition towards normal working. Simply switching off the tap would be economically catastrophic. There, I've given credit to a member of the government. This has never been a party political issue for me. I don't know whether Labour or anyone else would have handled things better. That's not the point; we have the government we have. I just see the evidence that suggests the government has got a lot of things wrong and comment accordingly. If some folk struggle with that notion, it's too bad.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 12, 2020 15:52:00 GMT 1
Today’s article which neatly summaries the superb work the Government and populace are doing in conjunction to rein in this callous virus. Several Labour-leaning acquaintances I have are quite clear they’re now signed-up Tory voters given the way the ship is currently being steered. www.thesun.co.uk/news/11600774/plumber-backs-boris-johnson-lockdown-plan/- A NO-NONSENSE plumber has been hailed a hero after backing Boris Johnson's lockdown plan, saying guidance for Brits is not "hard to understand". - As the brief exchange drew to an end, he shrugged: "I'm not sure what you want? A full handbook to tell you what to do?” - He [Johnson] told the House of Commons: "The Government is today submitting to the House a plan which is conditional and dependent, as always, on the common sense and observance of the British people and on continual reassessment of the data." Try reading The Metro, there are plenty of free copies around. Take too much notice of The Sun and you may well end up at the top of the next spike of infections. I am not sure there are any "no nonsense plumbers" for a start?
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 12, 2020 15:54:53 GMT 1
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 12, 2020 17:03:23 GMT 1
Isn't it funny how all the 'confused' people also voted Labour last year and just generally hate the nasty tawy party. Not sure Dominic raab or Andrew bridgen voted labour given they both gave out advice conflicting with what Boris later said And William Hague has also called it unclear And lots of press in other countries
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Post by staffordshrew on May 12, 2020 17:23:55 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 17:28:43 GMT 1
No political posts here. Nothing to see. Any comments on this at the time Vencermos? This bleating is like members of the Labour Party complaining that anti-semitism has been weaponised. Of course it has. That's poitics and you pick up whatever weapon is to hand to beat your opponents with. I will not abide the Conservative Party on this matter. Their goal remains herd immunity. Good luck to the herd. My priority is to survive without chronic ill-health. The Conservative Party's handling of this is a national scandal. Your bit about herd immunity is valid to a point, but Sweden has been doing just that and it’s not to shabby result wise at the moment, but only time will tell.... I think our problem is not sticking to the original tactic in the first instance and then changing half way through it
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 12, 2020 17:56:30 GMT 1
Comparative table. linkSweden isn't pulling up any trees compared to other Scandinavian countries. About 10 million people live in Sweden. So what is a similar sized European country? Portugal is on the periphery of Europe and right next to Spain, whose figures are awful. Portugal has a similar level of cases to Sweden but look at the differences in the number of deaths. What has happened there?
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Post by staffordshrew on May 12, 2020 19:53:56 GMT 1
It's difficult to compare death rates, lockdown may be just elpngating a similar death toil over a longer time period.
Our change of tactics was more to do with a serious concern about overloading a depleted NHS.
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Post by venceremos on May 12, 2020 20:38:15 GMT 1
Comparative table. linkSweden isn't pulling up any trees compared to other Scandinavian countries. About 10 million people live in Sweden. So what is a similar sized European country? Portugal is on the periphery of Europe and right next to Spain, whose figures are awful. Portugal has a similar level of cases to Sweden but look at the differences in the number of deaths. What has happened there? Portugal has a similar sized (actually slightly higher) population to Sweden but its population is concentrated into a land mass about 10% the size of Sweden. The expectation would be that Portugal would suffer far more than Sweden, but the reverse is true - the death rate is about three times higher in Sweden. Sweden also followed scientific advice (I read that it's legally bound to do so) and that advice was to distance but not lock down. The death toll has been very high in its care homes, so much so that the government has apologised. Sweden denies that it was following a herd immunity policy. It said it kept schools open so that health workers remained able to work. Perhaps, if the care home deaths are set aside for comparison, the transmission rate amongst the rest of the population has been lower than some other European countries. It's said that Swedes generally trust their public institutions and the "common sense" approach therefore had some success. In the end though, the overall death rate is still very high - and much higher, not just than Portugal, but than neighbouring Scandinavian countries.
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Post by northwestman on May 13, 2020 10:19:09 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 13, 2020 10:24:42 GMT 1
"I know you are a strong supporter of the proper use of statistics" - A great line to put into a letter to a politicisan, any politician!
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Post by northwestman on May 13, 2020 10:30:29 GMT 1
"There is limited detail about the nature and types of testing and it is hard to navigate to the best source of information. It would support trustworthiness for the testing data to be more straightforward to find, with detailed breakdowns and richer commentary".
That's beautifully understated too!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 18:00:24 GMT 1
Test kit finally arrived today by Amazon Logistics (on behalf of the NHS). Problem was it arrived at 5:50pm meaning that I've missed the return courier for tomorrow (the courier can only be booked between 8am - 4pm for next day collection). First task tomorrow therefore, book the return courier. Tests done last night and collected by courier first thing this morning...now just a matter of waiting. Having gone through this process of home testing I do wonder: 1) How many people actually go through with the test when they receive it? 2) How many actually do the test properly? The reason I mention this in general *** please stop reading now if you feel queasy*** is that to collect a sample of the virus, I had to scr@pe a long swab against my tonsils and back of the throat (not so easy given that I had my tonsils out when I was 5) and then push it into my nose until it met resistance. You have to do the test after 9pm so it wasn't easy in the bathroom to see easily pass my tongue with no natural light. To be honest I found it really uncomfortable and difficult to do myself and in the end had to ask my wife to do it. I then did the same for her. I've not seen anything on line but I'm guessing, based on my experience last night that there could be many tests that will give false readings due to them not being completed properly.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 13, 2020 19:26:03 GMT 1
Test kit finally arrived today by Amazon Logistics (on behalf of the NHS). Problem was it arrived at 5:50pm meaning that I've missed the return courier for tomorrow (the courier can only be booked between 8am - 4pm for next day collection). First task tomorrow therefore, book the return courier. Tests done last night and collected by courier first thing this morning...now just a matter of waiting. Having gone through this process of home testing I do wonder: 1) How many people actually go through with the test when they receive it? 2) How many actually do the test properly? The reason I mention this in general *** please stop reading now if you feel queasy*** is that to collect a sample of the virus, I had to scr@pe a long swab against my tonsils and back of the throat (not so easy given that I had my tonsils out when I was 5) and then push it into my nose until it met resistance. You have to do the test after 9pm so it wasn't easy in the bathroom to see easily pass my tongue with no natural light. To be honest I found it really uncomfortable and difficult to do myself and in the end had to ask my wife to do it. I then did the same for her. I've not seen anything on line but I'm guessing, based on my experience last night that there could be many tests that will give false readings due to them not being completed properly. based on the procedue you described i would also expect a lot of false readings
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 13, 2020 19:31:16 GMT 1
Comparative table. linkSweden isn't pulling up any trees compared to other Scandinavian countries. About 10 million people live in Sweden. So what is a similar sized European country? Portugal is on the periphery of Europe and right next to Spain, whose figures are awful. Portugal has a similar level of cases to Sweden but look at the differences in the number of deaths. What has happened there? a large % of Swedens deaths are from residential homes the gioverment admitted they had not shielded them soon enough. most of Sweden has continued to function and there economy wil be in a much stronger position than most european countrys. there health care system has never been overloded, they had no shortages of PPE and there R score is virtually the same as the uk.
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Post by shrewder on May 14, 2020 7:18:21 GMT 1
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 14, 2020 7:51:11 GMT 1
Test kit finally arrived today by Amazon Logistics (on behalf of the NHS). Problem was it arrived at 5:50pm meaning that I've missed the return courier for tomorrow (the courier can only be booked between 8am - 4pm for next day collection). First task tomorrow therefore, book the return courier. Tests done last night and collected by courier first thing this morning...now just a matter of waiting. Having gone through this process of home testing I do wonder: 1) How many people actually go through with the test when they receive it? 2) How many actually do the test properly? The reason I mention this in general *** please stop reading now if you feel queasy*** is that to collect a sample of the virus, I had to scr@pe a long swab against my tonsils and back of the throat (not so easy given that I had my tonsils out when I was 5) and then push it into my nose until it met resistance. You have to do the test after 9pm so it wasn't easy in the bathroom to see easily pass my tongue with no natural light. To be honest I found it really uncomfortable and difficult to do myself and in the end had to ask my wife to do it. I then did the same for her. I've not seen anything on line but I'm guessing, based on my experience last night that there could be many tests that will give false readings due to them not being completed properly. That doesn't sound nice at all. You certainly make a valid point, that lots of people who get a home test may give up or not do it right, which is why I said when Hancock announced he'd met the target that wasn't right as them posting out a test didn't mean those tests were completed
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Post by davycrockett on May 14, 2020 8:39:17 GMT 1
Test kit finally arrived today by Amazon Logistics (on behalf of the NHS). Problem was it arrived at 5:50pm meaning that I've missed the return courier for tomorrow (the courier can only be booked between 8am - 4pm for next day collection). First task tomorrow therefore, book the return courier. Tests done last night and collected by courier first thing this morning...now just a matter of waiting. Having gone through this process of home testing I do wonder: 1) How many people actually go through with the test when they receive it? 2) How many actually do the test properly? The reason I mention this in general *** please stop reading now if you feel queasy*** is that to collect a sample of the virus, I had to scr@pe a long swab against my tonsils and back of the throat (not so easy given that I had my tonsils out when I was 5) and then push it into my nose until it met resistance. You have to do the test after 9pm so it wasn't easy in the bathroom to see easily pass my tongue with no natural light. To be honest I found it really uncomfortable and difficult to do myself and in the end had to ask my wife to do it. I then did the same for her. I've not seen anything on line but I'm guessing, based on my experience last night that there could be many tests that will give false readings due to them not being completed properly. Hope you don’t mind me asking but have you and your wife had the same symptoms? You initially said you hadn’t had a cough so was it raised temperature aching joints and difficulty breathing? How are you feeling now?
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Post by staffordshrew on May 14, 2020 9:39:01 GMT 1
The test sounds like something people would not want their 90 year old mum to have to endure too often, they get prodded and probed enough
Seems the Nightingale hospital in London is being mothballed, why don't they use those Nightingale units to shield elderly pstients who might have been in contact with a case? It would help social distancing at care homes too. Or they could just move all the C19 hospital cases to Nightingales?
Seems to me that a re-evaluation of how resources should be used is needed now we are, hopefully, moving into the next phase. We also have 1st year student nurses that could be available to be employed in care homes, some have, but maybe they should be on a, paid by the government, official role to help maintain medical care in the homes.
With Hancock's half hour most days and his other workload, maybe we need a Coronavirus "Czar" to evaluate how best to use resources as we go forward?
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 14, 2020 10:22:23 GMT 1
not a suprise the world has changed and we now have to find a way to live with it and manage the flare ups.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 10:24:04 GMT 1
Tests done last night and collected by courier first thing this morning...now just a matter of waiting. Having gone through this process of home testing I do wonder: 1) How many people actually go through with the test when they receive it? 2) How many actually do the test properly? The reason I mention this in general *** please stop reading now if you feel queasy*** is that to collect a sample of the virus, I had to scr@pe a long swab against my tonsils and back of the throat (not so easy given that I had my tonsils out when I was 5) and then push it into my nose until it met resistance. You have to do the test after 9pm so it wasn't easy in the bathroom to see easily pass my tongue with no natural light. To be honest I found it really uncomfortable and difficult to do myself and in the end had to ask my wife to do it. I then did the same for her. I've not seen anything on line but I'm guessing, based on my experience last night that there could be many tests that will give false readings due to them not being completed properly. Hope you don’t mind me asking but have you and your wife had the same symptoms? You initially said you hadn’t had a cough so was it raised temperature aching joints and difficulty breathing? How are you feeling now? I'm slowly on the mend thank you. I had all the symptoms except the cough. The high temperature and the tight chest was the most concerning. My wife meanwhile has just had a persistent cough for 5 days now and no fever as such. Hopefully she's only having a mild dose.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 10:31:10 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 14, 2020 10:38:52 GMT 1
not a suprise the world has changed and we now have to find a way to live with it and manage the flare ups. Pneumonia, usually the result of a pneumococcal infection, and variations of the Flu "may never go away". But it doesn't mean we can't learn to manage them so that we are not ruled by them.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 14, 2020 14:38:19 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 14, 2020 15:06:50 GMT 1
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Post by davycrockett on May 14, 2020 15:26:34 GMT 1
I can’t see how schools can reopen whilst advice/rules on social distancing are in place. How can it be everyone has to practice social distancing in public areas including children but the same children don’t social distance at school?
Seems a plan made around a table without any scientific input, or are we back to numbers where a few kids and teachers deaths are worthwhile for the majority to get back to education...
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Post by staffordshrew on May 14, 2020 15:42:46 GMT 1
I can’t see how schools can reopen whilst advice/rules on social distancing are in place. How can it be everyone has to practice social distancing in public areas including children but the same children don’t social distance at school? Seems a plan made around a table without any scientific input, or are we back to numbers where a few kids and teachers deaths are worthwhile for the majority to get back to education... That neatly sums it up. Some children and teachers will die in road accidents on the way to school, but you need to have the schools open. It's the scientific input that needs to back up re-opening to give people confidence of minimal risk. I was hoping that Boris would have a cautious approach due to his expetience, but he still seems a bit cavalier.
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Post by northwestman on May 14, 2020 15:54:39 GMT 1
"Osama Rahman also admitted that the decision to reopen has been taken by the Cabinet not the Department". "It is understood that, unusually, the Department of Health and Social Care was not involved in drawing up the new strategy and slogan, despite their major implications for public health, and that it was instead developed jointly by No 10 and the Cabinet Office". Sajid Javid resigned as Chancellor of the Exchequer, following a meeting with the Prime Minister. During the meeting, Johnson had offered to keep his position on the condition that he fire all of his advisers at the Treasury, to be replaced with individuals selected by 10 Downing Street. Upon resigning, Javid told the Press Association that "no self-respecting minister would accept those terms" A pattern developing here perhaps?
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Post by northwestman on May 14, 2020 16:02:56 GMT 1
This is an utter disgrace! www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/14/dentists-say-lockdown-dental-measures-cause-unnecessary-suffering-patients-agony-ppe-englandFor emergency cases, patients can be referred by NHS 111 or their dentist to urgent care dental hubs at regional centres which have been set up across England. However, according to hundreds of accounts from dentists, dental nurses and patients submitted to the Guardian community team, a combination of high demand and a lack of personal protective equipment has caused severe delays at these hubs, leaving people with broken teeth, abscesses, and severe toothache unable to get face-to-face treatment. Some patients are struggling to eat and sleep despite trying multiple rounds of antibiotics, and for many others existing problems are getting more serious because of the lack of treatment caused by the closure of normal dental services.
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