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Post by northwestman on May 3, 2020 14:40:12 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8281943/So-elderly-meant-Matt-Hancock-sparks-confusion.htmlMatt Hancock has fanned a wave of confusion over the government's instructions to elderly people during the coronavirus lockdown. The Health Secretary last night rubbished reports that healthy over-70s were among the 'clinically vulnerable' who had been told to shield for 12 weeks. But he later published a link to NHS guidance which puts all over-70s, regardless of medical condition, into the 'clinically vulnerable' category. His remarks were branded 'contradictory' and further drew accusations of 're-writing history' because Boris Johnson said over-70s should brace for 12 weeks indoors. Confusing or what? He even needed Jenrick to bale him out. 'The Health Secretary's clumsy language prompted his cabinet colleague Robert Jenrick to clarify. The Communities Secretary tweeted: 'An important clarification: the 'shielded', those identified by the NHS as extremely clinically vulnerable, does not mean all those over 70.'
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Post by northwestman on May 3, 2020 14:49:06 GMT 1
Looks like it's war between the Times and the Government. Shame the paper is behind a paywall.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 3, 2020 14:52:13 GMT 1
"The Health Secretary last night rubbished reports that healthy over-70s were among the 'clinically vulnerable' who had been told to shield for 12 weeks".
That is confusing! Good job the over 70's have got more sense than him, they will shield if they want to or go out for a quiet walk if they want to.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 3, 2020 14:53:02 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8281943/So-elderly-meant-Matt-Hancock-sparks-confusion.htmlMatt Hancock has fanned a wave of confusion over the government's instructions to elderly people during the coronavirus lockdown. The Health Secretary last night rubbished reports that healthy over-70s were among the 'clinically vulnerable' who had been told to shield for 12 weeks. But he later published a link to NHS guidance which puts all over-70s, regardless of medical condition, into the 'clinically vulnerable' category. His remarks were branded 'contradictory' and further drew accusations of 're-writing history' because Boris Johnson said over-70s should brace for 12 weeks indoors. Confusing or what? He even needed Jenrick to bale him out. 'The Health Secretary's clumsy language prompted his cabinet colleague Robert Jenrick to clarify. The Communities Secretary tweeted: 'An important clarification: the 'shielded', those identified by the NHS as extremely clinically vulnerable, does not mean all those over 70.' Very strange to see the Mail criticising a Tory government The advice for the elderly has confused me from the start, are we supposed to isolate because there’s an assumption that all over 70s are unhealthy or is it because the immune system becomes weaker with age? I’ve not found an answer to this question. |
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 3, 2020 15:05:54 GMT 1
Would appear the perfect response to the pandemic from Germany is seeing cracks, looks like they are very quickly heading back to a return to lockdown, and 3 of FC Cologne players already been tested positive since return. Which adds weight to the saying of stop trying to discredit our response until after the pandemic vanishes then critic the UK response rather than half way through it.... Germany has less than 7,000 deaths, maybe their response was superior to ours. The release of lockdown will lead to increased infection regardless. The decision about when and how to ease lockdown is one that I don’t envy our leaders having to make. They’ll have the advantage of being later than other countries and being able to learn from their experiences. Incidentally, an Opinium poll published today shows support for Government handling of the crisis down from 61% to 47% in 3 weeks. So this board isn’t as out of step as you think. |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 3, 2020 17:55:54 GMT 1
Far be it from me to be controversial, but...
Before the younger generations start to ease out of lockdown, might it not be an idea for granny and granddad to see the grandchildren if they are desperate to?
We currently have:
young people at home from school and college.
many parents furloughed or working from home.
the ability for families with children to set themselves up for a couple of weeks only going out for exercise - there are better supplies in the shops to enable a two week shop, then lockdown, to be achieved prior to visiting granny and more delivery slots available.
The elderly are about to be completely left out of life as it restarts, a visit now could be at the least risky time we are going to be able to muster for a long while.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 3, 2020 18:07:08 GMT 1
gulfnews.com/world/be-kind-how-new-zealand-is-winning-covid-19-fight-with-4-lockdown-levels-1.1588496224311what New Zealand did was to stop flights from china in early February. they had good leadership and transparent aproach with simple messages, the population were treated as adultys and asked to do there bit. also as many people were taking a drop in income due to the virus the New Zealand PM took a 20% pay cut. how many uk MP's would do that ? "Here's why New Zealand’s pandemic response has worked so far, from the mouth of the Kiwis themselves (or their social media posts): #BeKind messaging is simple, powerful: Clear, consistent communications across all online/offline media, daily live TV updates Physical isolation: Being a rather remote island nation, New Zealand was able to close the island — and did it early during the global contagion Small population: With sheep-to-human population at 6:1 (30 million sheep against 4.88 million human inhabitants), it’s a relatively number to manage Transparent: Clear lines defining 4 lockdown levels; with clear triggers and enforcement for each level. Practical: Supermarkets will remain open at every level, with social distancing to be strictly observed. This helped reduce overcrowding at supermarkets etc. Wealthy: Being a relatively wealthy nation ($39,410 per capital in 2018 PPP), populations are not plunged in dire poverty Strong sense of community: Kiwis are “in it to win it”, with strong “crush the curve” attitude Effective leadership: PM Jacinda Ardern took a 20% pay cut during pandemic; able to communicate simple, but clear policy; as well as business “buy-in” to measures Compliance: High amount of lockdown compliance among the populace; there's also a strong perception of “exceptionalism”, or uniqueness, among the populace Governance: Having single level of government, decisions are quick and easy. No states or city-level decision making, and a high degree of nationalism" "New Zealand has started to relax its strict lockdown. Residents are able to travel to work, spend more time outside and order takeaway food for the first time in more than four weeks. The move from Level 4 measures to Level 3 came from PM Ardern. She explained, however, that the downgrade, comes with a caveat, i.e. that her country had not eradicated COVID-19 but was working towards its elimination." "On Tuesday (April 26) Ardern said: “Elimination does not mean zero cases, it means zero tolerance for cases.” Community transmission had ceased, she said, but isolated cases would continue to pop up and would continue “being stamped out” until a vaccine, or therapy was found."
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Post by staffordshrew on May 3, 2020 18:15:37 GMT 1
Now compare New Zealand's dates and actions with our government's. That's why people criticise our actions.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 3, 2020 20:31:28 GMT 1
currently the uk has the third highest death rate and is heading towards the second highest bearing in mind chinas and russias death rates have been questioned and also countries have different ways of what they included in the total figure.
At the right time serious question will / must be asked with regards to the goverments mihandling of this pandemic.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 4, 2020 8:38:49 GMT 1
Now compare New Zealand's dates and actions with our government's. That's why people criticise our actions. A well run goverment who got on top of things with a clear inclusive message ; death 20 versus A complacent then shambolic incompetent one as half way through we did a u turn and did not do either aproach properly. death 20,884 and still climbing |
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Post by shrewder on May 4, 2020 9:00:36 GMT 1
Now compare New Zealand's dates and actions with our government's. That's why people criticise our actions. A well run goverment who got on top of things with a clear inclusive message ; death 20 versus A complacent then shambolic incompetent one as half way through we did a u turn and did not do either aproach properly. death 20,884 and still climbing I don't disagree with you over the shambles but not sure because of New Zealand being fairly sparsely populated, that it is a good comparison. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 4, 2020 9:09:18 GMT 1
A well run goverment who got on top of things with a clear inclusive message ; death 20 versus A complacent then shambolic incompetent one as half way through we did a u turn and did not do either aproach properly. death 20,884 and still climbing I don't disagree with you over the shambles but not sure because of New Zealand being fairly sparsely populated, that it is a good comparison. you make a good point but; Whilst New Zealand is sparsley populated it has some fair sized citys population Auckland just over one and half million Christchurch ; 381,500 Wellington , 400,000 with a population of about four million eight hundred thousand the three citys has close to half the population equally in the uk the more sparsley populated rural areas has had lower rates of cornavirus. Wales is much smaller then New Zealands and has a population just over three million and has had 983 deaths. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 9:26:14 GMT 1
I don't disagree with you over the shambles but not sure because of New Zealand being fairly sparsely populated, that it is a good comparison. you make a good point but; Whilst New Zealand is sparsley populated it has some fair sized citys population Auckland just over one and half million Christchurch ; 381,500 Wellington , 400,000 with a population of about four million eight hundred thousand the three citys has close to half the population equally in the uk the more sparsley populated rural areas has had lower rates of cornavirus. Wales is much smaller then New Zealands and has a population just over three million and has had 983 deaths. It does not make it a good comparison, New Zealand has a much larger land mass than wales, and also the traffic into New Zealand is much smaller, London has the third biggest amount of visitors in the world, Auckland less, You fly from London for 3 hours, you can be in so many different countries, you fly 3 hours from Auckland, and your just hitting your sole neighbour of East coast of Australia, so to use NZ as a comparison is not really that smart. But they have done things well. Like i keep saying, and will continue to say, until this virus is eradicated, then is the time to judge what has gone on and whom is to blame. |
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Post by davycrockett on May 4, 2020 10:07:22 GMT 1
you make a good point but; Whilst New Zealand is sparsley populated it has some fair sized citys population Auckland just over one and half million Christchurch ; 381,500 Wellington , 400,000 with a population of about four million eight hundred thousand the three citys has close to half the population equally in the uk the more sparsley populated rural areas has had lower rates of cornavirus. Wales is much smaller then New Zealands and has a population just over three million and has had 983 deaths. It does not make it a good comparison, New Zealand has a much larger land mass than wales, and also the traffic into New Zealand is much smaller, London has the third biggest amount of visitors in the world, Auckland less, You fly from London for 3 hours, you can be in so many different countries, you fly 3 hours from Auckland, and your just hitting your sole neighbour of East coast of Australia, so to use NZ as a comparison is not really that smart. But they have done things well. Like i keep saying, and will continue to say, until this virus is eradicated, then is the time to judge what has gone on and whom is to blame. Very fair comments I’d agree with if the government didn’t continue to ‘spin’ ..... Can understand wanting to give good new rather than bad at the daily briefings but too much effort on trying to appear that correct decisions have been made.... Im sick of hearing we follow the science! Well it didn’t take a scientist to advise continuing with Cheltenham from 10th to 13th March when it was obvious to everyone it was a bad idea, even the EFL had to stop game being played on the 14th against government advice.... you don’t need hindsight to know the decision on banning mass gatherings was made too late. |
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Post by ( you know who from b&a ) on May 4, 2020 10:17:20 GMT 1
speaking of Germany , I've not looked or anything but , were their population still holding private barbeques and parties during the lockdown to the extent that we seemingly were ? or were they just as foolish as many over here ?
with the amount that are still dying here on a daily basis it does make me wonder exactly what each of them were doing 5, 6 or 7 weeks ago that they shouldn't have been doing
I know a lot will have been those giving 100% for their job which is tragic but I bet a lot of ignorant people are now making up those numbers
controversial opinion maybe but I had to say it, too many are looking to point the blame at the gov but some need to look at themselves first
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Post by staffordshrew on May 4, 2020 11:15:02 GMT 1
Like i keep saying, and will continue to say, until this virus is eradicated, then is the time to judge what has gone on and whom is to blame. Much more than attach blame, we need to learn. All those years of austerity now a waste of time and opportunity, we must have bigger debts than ever now. Those most affected by austerity, people on zero hours contracts, the lower paid, delivery, warehouse, social care, shop workers and the nurses who had their pay rise voted down are now the back bone keeping this country going. We need to link future economic action to action for the poor and underpriveledged, social care and an NHS that is prepared for whatever might be thrown at it. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 4, 2020 11:24:39 GMT 1
It does not make it a good comparison, New Zealand has a much larger land mass than wales, and also the traffic into New Zealand is much smaller, London has the third biggest amount of visitors in the world, Auckland less, You fly from London for 3 hours, you can be in so many different countries, you fly 3 hours from Auckland, and your just hitting your sole neighbour of East coast of Australia, so to use NZ as a comparison is not really that smart. But they have done things well. Like i keep saying, and will continue to say, until this virus is eradicated, then is the time to judge what has gone on and whom is to blame. Very fair comments I’d agree with if the government didn’t continue to ‘spin’ ..... Can understand wanting to give good new rather than bad at the daily briefings but too much effort on trying to appear that correct decisions have been made.... Im sick of hearing we follow the science! Well it didn’t take a scientist to advise continuing with Cheltenham from 10th to 13th March when it was obvious to everyone it was a bad idea, even the EFL had to stop game being played on the 14th against government advice.... you don’t need hindsight to know the decision on banning mass gatherings was made too late. its not the benfit of hindsight i was saying it at the time, the density and transpot of a city with one and half million will not differ that much.( the workers will use cars / public transport people will go to gyms etc as far as i can see you have two options Swedens model or the thougher lockdown model, as the Swedish advisor predicts in a years time the moratality % will be similar what we did was not react at all, then go with one aproach then change our minds and make a mess of both of them. how would you explain the uk currently having the second highest death rate in Europe and third in the wortld ? do you seriously think this goverment has done a god job? |
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Post by northwestman on May 4, 2020 11:26:27 GMT 1
Ministers were made “fully aware” by intelligence agencies that China had covered up the true scale of the Covid-19 outbreak, it was claimed on Sunday night, raising questions over Britain’s decision to delay the lockdown.
The Government in Westminster was told “not to believe Beijing’s claims” from the outset and to treat the information coming out of China with scepticism, The Telegraph understands. A senior, former MI6 official said the intelligence agencies knew what was “really happening” in China and passed that information to ministers.
Doubts are also being expressed over China’s insistence that the outbreak began in a so-called wet market in Wuhan, where live animals were being sold. The spotlight is being turned on the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology amid claims that lax biosecurity may have allowed the disease, being examined in the lab, to somehow escape.
Downing Street continued to use China’s official figures in comparative graphs on the scale of the outbreak until just over a week ago but then dropped the country from the charts over concerns over the accuracy of the data.
Daily Telegraph.
It does seem somewhat surprising that China's official figures were left on the Government's graphs for so long, and when they were finally taken off I don't recall any explanation being given.
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Post by shrewder on May 4, 2020 11:53:00 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 4, 2020 12:21:52 GMT 1
A judicial review is being brought against the lockdown laws, claiming they are ultra vires – that is, that ministers have no legal authority to impose them in the way they did – and that they incur a disproportionate interference with fundamental rights and freedoms. There is serious legal argument supporting that view. The present rules may be unlawful. www.theguardian.com/law/2020/may/01/uk-government-faces-legal-challenge-coronavirus-lockdown-businessman-simon-dolanMeanwhile, the CPS is reviewing every single charge, conviction and sentence brought under emergency powers after civil liberties group Big Brother Watch detailed a string of wrongful convictions in a damning review. The zealous criminalisation of people for activity that, until a few weeks ago was entirely ordinary, has concerned many. We now have the expansion of the surveillance state, with thermal imaging cameras, drones, ANPR and location tracking being deployed at the drop of a hat to police the nation into imprisonment at home. Daily Telegraph. |
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Post by northwestman on May 4, 2020 12:44:44 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 4, 2020 12:51:26 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 4, 2020 13:34:08 GMT 1
Interesting that up in Scotland they don't feel the need to put a Daily Briefing show on every day, just clear pronouncements of what they intend issued as needed.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 4, 2020 13:48:38 GMT 1
Looks like it's war between the Times and the Government. Shame the paper is behind a paywall. If they really want to wage war, the Washington Post has made it's Coronavirus news available outside of it's pay wall. The Times should either put up or shut up! |
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Post by northwestman on May 4, 2020 13:57:55 GMT 1
Looks like it's war between the Times and the Government. Shame the paper is behind a paywall. If they really want to wage war, the Washington Post has made it's Coronavirus news available outside of it's pay wall. The Times should either put up or shut up! The strange thing is that the Times is a sister paper to the Sun, which is all over Johnson like a rash. |
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Post by ( you know who from b&a ) on May 4, 2020 14:33:12 GMT 1
Ministers were made “fully aware” by intelligence agencies that China had covered up the true scale of the Covid-19 outbreak, it was claimed on Sunday night, raising questions over Britain’s decision to delay the lockdown. The Government in Westminster was told “not to believe Beijing’s claims” from the outset and to treat the information coming out of China with scepticism, The Telegraph understands. A senior, former MI6 official said the intelligence agencies knew what was “really happening” in China and passed that information to ministers. Doubts are also being expressed over China’s insistence that the outbreak began in a so-called wet market in Wuhan, where live animals were being sold. The spotlight is being turned on the nearby Wuhan Institute of Virology amid claims that lax biosecurity may have allowed the disease, being examined in the lab, to somehow escape. Downing Street continued to use China’s official figures in comparative graphs on the scale of the outbreak until just over a week ago but then dropped the country from the charts over concerns over the accuracy of the data. Daily Telegraph. It does seem somewhat surprising that China's official figures were left on the Government's graphs for so long, and when they were finally taken off I don't recall any explanation being given. it was probably no different to all the past virus related outbreaks and threats are you suggesting every time it happens in the future we all instantly lockdown or just on the ones that hindsight suggest we should have done ? its a no win situation whatever try moving into the future instead of lingering in the past ;-) |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 16:10:34 GMT 1
It does not make it a good comparison, New Zealand has a much larger land mass than wales, and also the traffic into New Zealand is much smaller, London has the third biggest amount of visitors in the world, Auckland less, You fly from London for 3 hours, you can be in so many different countries, you fly 3 hours from Auckland, and your just hitting your sole neighbour of East coast of Australia, so to use NZ as a comparison is not really that smart. But they have done things well. Like i keep saying, and will continue to say, until this virus is eradicated, then is the time to judge what has gone on and whom is to blame. Very fair comments I’d agree with if the government didn’t continue to ‘spin’ ..... Can understand wanting to give good new rather than bad at the daily briefings but too much effort on trying to appear that correct decisions have been made.... Im sick of hearing we follow the science! Well it didn’t take a scientist to advise continuing with Cheltenham from 10th to 13th March when it was obvious to everyone it was a bad idea, even the EFL had to stop game being played on the 14th against government advice.... you don’t need hindsight to know the decision on banning mass gatherings was made too late. I was on about this a few days ago, but it conveniently got brushed under the carpet, as cynical, as it showed that possibly the Government wanted a lockdown but the science did not agree, but no one was willing to believe that Boris and Cummings were both in favour. So looking at the science, the day prior to and during Cheltenham and the Liverpool game (do not know why these are the only 2 cited, as there were still loads of events going on) the science clearly stated that mass gatherings were not a major cause for concern, so the Government openly followed the Science, but privately wanted the lock down. which was fine. but everyone is judging what happened after that date as a result of it, rather than judging what was done on that day with the information and advice they were being given on or before that date. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Perhaps that was why Boris was giving so much time to handshakes with people suffering from CV, and allowing things to happen to show solidarity with the advice he was given. |
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Post by claphamshrew on May 4, 2020 16:56:29 GMT 1
Interesting that up in Scotland they don't feel the need to put a Daily Briefing show on every day, just clear pronouncements of what they intend issued as needed. They have one every day around lunchtime. It’s always on the BBC news channel. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 17:06:54 GMT 1
Interesting that up in Scotland they don't feel the need to put a Daily Briefing show on every day, just clear pronouncements of what they intend issued as needed. They have one every day around lunchtime. It’s always on the BBC news channel. The Welsh briefing normally takes place about the same time too. |
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Post by davycrockett on May 4, 2020 17:10:22 GMT 1
Very fair comments I’d agree with if the government didn’t continue to ‘spin’ ..... Can understand wanting to give good new rather than bad at the daily briefings but too much effort on trying to appear that correct decisions have been made.... Im sick of hearing we follow the science! Well it didn’t take a scientist to advise continuing with Cheltenham from 10th to 13th March when it was obvious to everyone it was a bad idea, even the EFL had to stop game being played on the 14th against government advice.... you don’t need hindsight to know the decision on banning mass gatherings was made too late. its not the benfit of hindsight i was saying it at the time, the density and transpot of a city with one and half million will not differ that much.( the workers will use cars / public transport people will go to gyms etc as far as i can see you have two options Swedens model or the thougher lockdown model, as the Swedish advisor predicts in a years time the moratality % will be similar what we did was not react at all, then go with one aproach then change our minds and make a mess of both of them. how would you explain the uk currently having the second highest death rate in Europe and third in the wortld ? do you seriously think this goverment has done a god job? |
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