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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 30, 2020 17:40:34 GMT 1
You don't really believe that a top Tory advisor would force through trashing the economy without overwhelming scientific advice do you? More likely he had an influence on us not going into lockdown earlier and I can understand that - it's a huge step to take. Personally, I would have asked asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and (checked if) pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days so as to check exactly how determined the advisors were about the need for lockdown and also to see if a part lockdown of just the pubs and restaurants could save having to close down manufacturing. This is pretty much what I expected on this to be honest, but disappointing, as this shows that the Government actually do care, and that the view is for the best for the country despite the economic damage, but instead it gets brushed aside by the majority as it does not sit with the agenda that the government are all lying barstewards, and hate the population. The silence on this board about this is deafening.... I expected someone to come up with the cynical explanation: The way the elderly were forgotten in their care homes and told that they would probably not be taken to hospital backs up the view that this was not about the government caring about the people, just about their concern that they would be blamed for an overwhelmed NHS that had been under invested in through all those years of Tory government. An NHS that didn't have enough care nurses, intensive care beds, or enough equipment. While Cummings was sitting there asking if we ought to be going into lockdown he was penning another three word acronym to "Protect the NHS" to try to protect the Tory record. Far too cynical of course, but you still have to ask, if Cummings was keen on an early lockdown then why didn't we? The advisors cannot order lockdown, but the Government could have. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2020 18:29:31 GMT 1
personally i think the goverment exteding the lockdown based on a fear of a spike in cases makes no sense, if the fear of a spike is the main reason for not doing it then the logic makes no sense you will get a spike at each phase of easing the lockdown so they might as well do it as unoffically it is already happening.( i am one of the group with a high risk of complications from this virus) the main thing is do a better job of shielding the vunerable groups. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review"There has not been a single instance of a child under 10 transmitting the virus, even in contact tracing carried out by the WHO" since the risk is low i dont see why primary schools are not reopened, Sweden did not close primary schools, with teachers having ppe and school drop offs and picks monitored for safe distancing There are practical problems with reopening primary schools, for example at the school where my daughter works several of the staff are either in at risk groups due to age or health conditions. So they could not operate with safe staffing levels. They also don’t know how they will keep the usual educational materials safe and hygienic. How do you control the use of pencils, paint, play dough etc? What do they do about young children soiling themselves? There’s not enough PPE for front line NHS workers so where are schools to get it from? There’s also the fact that most parents do not want their children in school while there’s so much uncertainty about how the disease is spread and the threat of the new illness that’s affecting children. My daughter’s school was available for children of key workers but nobody turned up, they preferred to make their own arrangements. The teaching staff are providing lessons remotely and advising parents by phone or Zoom etc. They are preparing for a normal reopening for the new academic year, but numbers committing to attend are too small to make it viable at present. all good points and these are the chalenges schools will face;Denmark schools reopened on the 15th of April www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52291326"We're all a bit nervous and we'll have to ensure that we stick to hygiene rules," Elisa Rimpler of the BUPL, the Danish Union of Early Childhood and Youth Educators, told the BBC. "We have a lot of washing hands during the day. We don't have masks and we have to keep a good distance from each other so that's a very difficult task." "Infection rates have been low but critics warn the strategy is risky." |
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 30, 2020 19:26:13 GMT 1
Everything's risky, but we have to start doing things again once the numbers look right.
Need to get the children back into school so that the parents can go back to work, school plus childcare being what enables many parents to be able to work.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 1, 2020 8:44:12 GMT 1
Everything's risky, but we have to start doing things again once the numbers look right. Need to get the children back into school so that the parents can go back to work, school plus childcare being what enables many parents to be able to work. True, but there are many practical issues to sort out as I mentioned previously. In the words of the title of this thread schools are places of ‘mass gatherings’ and social distancing isn’t possible. So schools will resume with limited numbers of students, possibly attending in year group shift systems. Also a poll this morning confirms anecdotal evidence from family members who work in education, people do not want to risk sending children to school and the numbers attending are much lower than expected. |
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Post by northwestman on May 1, 2020 10:07:55 GMT 1
Everything's risky, but we have to start doing things again once the numbers look right. Need to get the children back into school so that the parents can go back to work, school plus childcare being what enables many parents to be able to work. True, but there are many practical issues to sort out as I mentioned previously. In the words of the title of this thread schools are places of ‘mass gatherings’ and social distancing isn’t possible. So schools will resume with limited numbers of students, possibly attending in year group shift systems. Also a poll this morning confirms anecdotal evidence from family members who work in education, people do not want to risk sending children to school and the numbers attending are much lower than expected. I'm a retired Lecturer and am very relieved to be so. I've read at least half a dozen cases where teachers have died from coronavirus. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable returning to work in the current climate. |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 1, 2020 10:54:54 GMT 1
True, but there are many practical issues to sort out as I mentioned previously. In the words of the title of this thread schools are places of ‘mass gatherings’ and social distancing isn’t possible. So schools will resume with limited numbers of students, possibly attending in year group shift systems. Also a poll this morning confirms anecdotal evidence from family members who work in education, people do not want to risk sending children to school and the numbers attending are much lower than expected. I'm a retired Lecturer and am very relieved to be so. I've read at least half a dozen cases where teachers have died from coronavirus. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable returning to work in the current climate. We don't know enough about if young people catch it and transmit it without even showing symptoms. Some of the talk a week or two ago seemed to forget that there are a whole range of people who are in the older age groups who support the school being open. The public, and our Prime Minister, get how Coronavirus is dangerous now and it will be a long time before we get back to any sort of normality. The other side of the equation is how well home schooling is going. Learning to read, for example, is something that if you miss it it's harder to learn later in development. Plus the exam years, this years had already done their lab work and school work, so results could be issued based on that. How much can next years exam years assemble at home? |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 1, 2020 13:39:02 GMT 1
Virtual lessons for children long-term?Children learning on tabletswww.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52495737Schools are closed and 90% of the planet’s children are out of classes. Teachers and pupils have been forced to embrace online lessons like never before. But it has highlighted digital poverty, reports education editor Branwen Jeffreys. Once it's running well should it be made available to all to upskill the workforce? No doubt some of the families with young people learning on line are already picking up on things they didn't quite get at school.
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Post by northwestman on May 1, 2020 15:39:25 GMT 1
www.hsj.co.uk/story.aspx?storyCode=7027544How to rig hitting the 100,000 tests benchmark. I KNEW they'd do it. This explains how. The government has changed the way it is counting the number of covid-19 tests carried out in a bid to hit its target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of April, HSJ can reveal. Previously, a test would be counted once the sample had been processed in laboratories. But this definition has been changed in the last few days, a senior source told HSJ. The Department of Health and Social Care is now including tests that have been posted or delivered to people’s homes in its figures. This means tests which are sent to people are counted before the recipient has provided and returned their sample to a laboratory. HSJ understands that up to 50,000 of the tests that will be reported as having taken place on 30 April will actually represent the mailing or the agreeing to mail a home testing kit. In the last seven days (23-30 April) the number of tests reported by the government rose from 23,560 to 81,611. The source told HSJ that work to achieve the 100,000 tests per day had been “manic” and that the health and social care secretary Matt Hancock was “obsessed” with reaching the target. “They are trying every trick in the book,” the source said. “They had to get the permanent secretary at DHSC (Chris Wormald) to agree to a change in the counting process. “We’re now counting a home test as tests which have been sent to people’s homes.” Testing for covid-19 has been predominantly carried out under two of Mr Hancock’s five “pillars”, within the government’s testing strategy. These are tests at laboratories run by Public Health England and NHS hospitals (Pillar One) and swab tests at dozens of community sites across the UK (Pillar Two), with the latter including the posting of home testing kits and deliveries by companies such as Amazon. HSJ understands around 27,000 home tests were posted to people yesterday as part of pillar two work. They will form part of today’s testing figures which are yet to be published. HSJ’s source said: “The view is that is unsustainable. It was just a massive one-day mission on the part of Amazon and the Royal Mail”. HSJ understands the number of home test kits that have been returned by Amazon this week is about one one third of the number posted. Meanwhile, the government has recently announced two testing programmes under Pillar Four, which will eventually include hundreds of thousands of people. One of the programmes, announced on Wednesday and led by Imperial College, Imperial College Health Healthcare Trust and polling company Ipsos Mori, will see 100,000 home testing kits sent to people across the country. HSJ understands around 25,000 home testing kits were posted to people yesterday through this scheme. On Wednesday, only 1,150 tests under Pillar Four had been carried out. The other Pillar Four programme, announced on 23 April, aims to track coronavirus in the general population and is led by the DHSC and Office for National Statistics, with the help of University of Oxford, data science company IQVIA UK and the National Biosample Centre in Milton Keynes. Testing figures for yesterday will be announced later today.
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 2, 2020 0:15:09 GMT 1
www.hsj.co.uk/story.aspx?storyCode=7027544How to rig hitting the 100,000 tests benchmark. I KNEW they'd do it. This explains how. The government has changed the way it is counting the number of covid-19 tests carried out in a bid to hit its target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of April, HSJ can reveal. Previously, a test would be counted once the sample had been processed in laboratories. But this definition has been changed in the last few days, a senior source told HSJ. The Department of Health and Social Care is now including tests that have been posted or delivered to people’s homes in its figures. This means tests which are sent to people are counted before the recipient has provided and returned their sample to a laboratory. HSJ understands that up to 50,000 of the tests that will be reported as having taken place on 30 April will actually represent the mailing or the agreeing to mail a home testing kit. In the last seven days (23-30 April) the number of tests reported by the government rose from 23,560 to 81,611. The source told HSJ that work to achieve the 100,000 tests per day had been “manic” and that the health and social care secretary Matt Hancock was “obsessed” with reaching the target. “They are trying every trick in the book,” the source said. “They had to get the permanent secretary at DHSC (Chris Wormald) to agree to a change in the counting process. “We’re now counting a home test as tests which have been sent to people’s homes.” Testing for covid-19 has been predominantly carried out under two of Mr Hancock’s five “pillars”, within the government’s testing strategy. These are tests at laboratories run by Public Health England and NHS hospitals (Pillar One) and swab tests at dozens of community sites across the UK (Pillar Two), with the latter including the posting of home testing kits and deliveries by companies such as Amazon. HSJ understands around 27,000 home tests were posted to people yesterday as part of pillar two work. They will form part of today’s testing figures which are yet to be published. HSJ’s source said: “The view is that is unsustainable. It was just a massive one-day mission on the part of Amazon and the Royal Mail”. HSJ understands the number of home test kits that have been returned by Amazon this week is about one one third of the number posted. Meanwhile, the government has recently announced two testing programmes under Pillar Four, which will eventually include hundreds of thousands of people. One of the programmes, announced on Wednesday and led by Imperial College, Imperial College Health Healthcare Trust and polling company Ipsos Mori, will see 100,000 home testing kits sent to people across the country. HSJ understands around 25,000 home testing kits were posted to people yesterday through this scheme. On Wednesday, only 1,150 tests under Pillar Four had been carried out. The other Pillar Four programme, announced on 23 April, aims to track coronavirus in the general population and is led by the DHSC and Office for National Statistics, with the help of University of Oxford, data science company IQVIA UK and the National Biosample Centre in Milton Keynes. Testing figures for yesterday will be announced later today. Absolutely shocking that they even admitted in the briefing that tests sent out in the post yesterday got counted as tests being done. Just to clarify, the tests might not have been received, let alone sent back to labs, let alone tested In future lots of students will claim they passed their coursework because they sent it, regardless of whether it was received or marked |
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 10:35:05 GMT 1
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/coronavirus/bombshell-dossier-lays-out-case-against-chinese-bat-virus-program/news-story/55add857058731c9c71c0e96ad17da60China deliberately suppressed or destroyed evidence of the coronavirus outbreak in an “assault on international transparency’’ that cost tens of thousands of lives, according to a dossier prepared by concerned Western governments on the COVID-19 contagion. The 15-page research document, obtained by The Saturday Telegraph, lays the foundation for the case of negligence being mounted against China. It states that to the “endangerment of other countries” the Chinese government covered-up news of the virus by silencing or “disappearing” doctors who spoke out, destroying evidence of it in laboratories and refusing to provide live samples to international scientists who were working on a vaccine.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 2, 2020 11:52:10 GMT 1
The mail
"China's censors deleted critical coronavirus articles and social media posts even if they had been written in Morse code or KLINGON to avoid detection"
they are a one party state who monitor there population heavily but the more they censor hte more they look as if htey have somthing to hide and the more guilty they look.
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 12:02:47 GMT 1
And anyone who thinks these stats from China have the slightest credibility needs to shoot down the pink pigs flying overhead! www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/Even our Government have now taken China off that chart of deaths they show us every evening, and have replaced them with Sweden (though I suspect the pale grey line allocated to Sweden has been deliberately chosen in the hope we don't notice it). However, the fact that they included such clearly questionable stats from China for so long is open to criticism. They might as well have added North Korea! |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 2, 2020 12:27:32 GMT 1
www.theaustralian.com.au/Leaked Five Eyes dossier claims China intentionally hid or destroyed evidence of COVID-19 outbreak.(this is a subscription newspaper) www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/leaked-spy-document-claims-china-21962051"A bombshell dossier by the Five Eyes security alliance has accused China of hiding the truth about the deadly virus as it spread across the world, causing tens of thousands of death" "The report - produced by the Five Eyes security alliance -accuses China of silencing doctors who spoke out, blocking news reports about the disease and denying it could spread between humans for weeks, despite knowing this was untrue. This caused the “endangerment of other countries”, and sets out the case against the Chinese government, according to reports in Australia." It also alleges that China continued to deny reports about the killer bug for weeks, giving it time to spread around the world. "Intelligence services reportedly believe evidence of the virus was destroyed in labs and requests to provide live samples to international scientists working on a vaccine were refused. And the newspaper reports that the Australian government funded a team of Chinese scientists at a lab where deadly coronaviruses were genetically modified - even though they could be transmitted from bats to humans." who in there right mids modifys a virus that can be transmited to humans a few questions; did china stop this/ supress this to save face ? the lack of tranparency from china is no suprise but was this also about propaganda to send a message we are on top of this or did they wont a head start in creating a vacine they could make the world pay thropugh the nose to get ?
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 12:34:11 GMT 1
the lack of transparency from china is no surprise, but was this also about propaganda to send a message we are on top of this, or did they want a head start in creating a vaccine they could make the world pay through the nose to get ? If it's anything like their antibody tests, ventilators or PPE, it either won't work or will be the wrong vaccine. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 2, 2020 12:55:39 GMT 1
On the subject of testing and whether or not 122,000 is 73,000 can we please stop being surprised or pretending that we're surprised by the calibre of people in our government and where their interests lie? They were always going to come up with some three shell game for 30th April because that is who they are. Meanwhile over 70,000 were tested so this nonsense wasn't necessary.
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 13:03:54 GMT 1
On the subject of testing and whether or not 122,000 is 73,000 can we please stop being surprised or pretending that we're surprised by the calibre of people in our government and where their interests lie? They were always going to come up with some three shell game for 30th April because that is who they are. Meanwhile over 70,000 were tested so this nonsense wasn't necessary. The three shell game will now no doubt be moved on to either PPE or care homes! Johnson undoubtedly started the three card trick on Thursday by trying to hide the number of tests that were actually carried out by lumping in the ones posted into the one figure he gave out for 'tests'. Shame on the journalists for not picking up on that. Number of Tests - 81,611. People Tested - 54,575 (completely glossed over by Johnson). |
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 2, 2020 13:14:49 GMT 1
On the subject of school reopening, I see there was a report from Germany yesterday stating that children transmitted the disease in the same way as adults but were potentially more dangerous as they did not show symptoms.
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 13:27:05 GMT 1
On the subject of school reopening, I see there was a report from Germany yesterday stating that children transmitted the disease in the same way as adults but were potentially more dangerous as they did not show symptoms. At least 6 teachers have died from coronavirus to my knowledge. Probably more. |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 2, 2020 15:15:52 GMT 1
Spain's champion sprinter emerges after 7 weeks confined to house lockdown eased.  |
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Post by wakemanender on May 2, 2020 15:26:20 GMT 1
Just been informed by my car insurer that if I have an accident claim I will have to prove that the accident occured during an essential journey. No mention of a premimum reduction or refund though. They must be coining it in and paying very little out.
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Post by staffordshrew on May 2, 2020 15:41:38 GMT 1
Just been informed by my car insurer that if I have an accident claim I will have to prove that the accident occured during an essential journey. No mention of a premimum reduction or refund though. They must be coining it in and paying very little out. That's naughty. Care to name and shame the company involved? I could see the same happening with breakdown cover, leaving people high and dry broken down somewhere. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 2, 2020 15:48:58 GMT 1
On the subject of school reopening, I see there was a report from Germany yesterday stating that children transmitted the disease in the same way as adults but were potentially more dangerous as they did not show symptoms. in the research from iceland 50% tested were infectious but no showed symptoms from the mail " denmark's infectious diseases agency found 'R rate' rose since schools opened Since lockdown was relaxed infection increased slightly but remains below 1.0 According to data, 'R' increased from 0.6 on April 15 up to 0.9 as of yesterday State Serum Institute said 'there are no signs COVID-19 epidemic is accelerating'" you would expect a rise after children return from lockdown , Denmark have tried to introduce safe dstancing in classes, the main thing for uk teachers is that they are suplied with PPE and also have thermal scanners to show if children have a temperature , also some teachers and children will not be able to return if they are in the high risk group. |
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Post by northwestman on May 2, 2020 15:50:28 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8280029/Government-testing-chief-plays-Matt-Hancocks-target-amid-row.htmlThe government's testing co-ordinator insisted people should not get 'hung up on targets' today as he argued the goal for 100,000 checks a day had been met. Prof John Newton brushed off a row over whether the numbers had been cooked, stressing the big picture was capacity had risen sharply and there would always be disputes when 'politicians set targets'. The Health Secretary declared at the Downing Street press briefing last night that there had been 122,000 tests in the 24 hours to 9am yesterday, a huge increase from barely 10,000 at the beginning of April. But it emerged around 40,000 of those counted had been posted out to homes and hospitals - and not actually processed. Boris Johnson and other ministers had previously been stating that the government figures covered the number of tests 'carried out' per day. Prof Newton told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the target had been met 'whichever way you count it' - although he did not give figures for how many tests had actually been completed in the 24 hours. Prof Newton said: 'We don't want to get too hung up on the targets... what matters is we have got substantial capacity.' He said: 'It's a big number however you count it. All the tests are only counted once, and you can count tests when they go out, or when they come back in. Whichever way you do it we still beat the target.' Prof Newton also delivered what appeared to be a dig at Mr Hancock, saying that people should not get 'hung up' on targets. 'These are the sorts of discussions you get when politicians set targets. What we are focusing is on delivering what people need,' he said. Translation - those mendacious barstewards in government are prepared to try to pull the wool over your eyes whenever they can, but in the meantime the rest of us are trying our best to deal with the coronavirus virus.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 2, 2020 15:58:42 GMT 1
On the subject of school reopening, I see there was a report from Germany yesterday stating that children transmitted the disease in the same way as adults but were potentially more dangerous as they did not show symptoms. in the research from iceland 50% tested were infectious but no showed symptoms from the mail " denmark's infectious diseases agency found 'R rate' rose since schools opened Since lockdown was relaxed infection increased slightly but remains below 1.0 According to data, 'R' increased from 0.6 on April 15 up to 0.9 as of yesterday State Serum Institute said 'there are no signs COVID-19 epidemic is accelerating'" you would expect a rise after children return from lockdown , Denmark have tried to introduce safe dstancing in classes, the main thing for uk teachers is that they are suplied with PPE and also have thermal scanners to show if children have a temperature , also some teachers and children will not be able to return if they are in the high risk group. If they're infectious but have no symptoms how does having a thermal scan help? Isn't a raised temperature a symptom? |
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 2, 2020 16:29:02 GMT 1
A good twitter thread about the USA based on a NY Times article linkThis gives context to the issue of easing the lockdown and avoiding another peak: you will get another peak if your public health startegy isn't together. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 2, 2020 17:23:46 GMT 1
in the research from iceland 50% tested were infectious but no showed symptoms from the mail " denmark's infectious diseases agency found 'R rate' rose since schools opened Since lockdown was relaxed infection increased slightly but remains below 1.0 According to data, 'R' increased from 0.6 on April 15 up to 0.9 as of yesterday State Serum Institute said 'there are no signs COVID-19 epidemic is accelerating'" you would expect a rise after children return from lockdown , Denmark have tried to introduce safe dstancing in classes, the main thing for uk teachers is that they are suplied with PPE and also have thermal scanners to show if children have a temperature , also some teachers and children will not be able to return if they are in the high risk group. If they're infectious but have no symptoms how does having a thermal scan help? Isn't a raised temperature a symptom? true but you might sill get children who are not some of the ones who dont show symptoms but may be starting to have a temperatuer. |
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Post by indalo on May 2, 2020 19:35:18 GMT 1
Spain's champion sprinter emerges after 7 weeks confined to house lockdown eased. Fake news Staffy , there's no way that's a Spanish woman! I'd guess she's much more likely to be a German or British expat , just look at that horrendous sunburn for a start. I think I'd have my money on her being German though as I can't see any tattoos😜 |
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Post by indalo on May 2, 2020 19:44:58 GMT 1
Just been informed by my car insurer that if I have an accident claim I will have to prove that the accident occured during an essential journey. No mention of a premimum reduction or refund though. They must be coining it in and paying very little out. That's not great but I've just had the opposite experience with my annual travel insurance provider. They have been in touch to let me know that they have extended the term of my policy by three months free of charge because I haven't been able to use the cover during the lockdown. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 10:55:53 GMT 1
Would appear the perfect response to the pandemic from Germany is seeing cracks, looks like they are very quickly heading back to a return to lockdown, and 3 of FC Cologne players already been tested positive since return.
Which adds weight to the saying of stop trying to discredit our response until after the pandemic vanishes then critic the UK response rather than half way through it....
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Post by staffordshrew on May 3, 2020 13:37:29 GMT 1
Would appear the perfect response to the pandemic from Germany is seeing cracks, looks like they are very quickly heading back to a return to lockdown, and 3 of FC Cologne players already been tested positive since return. Which adds weight to the saying of stop trying to discredit our response until after the pandemic vanishes then critic the UK response rather than half way through it.... Don't think people are criticising what is being done, just the fact that it took us until half way through it to get up to speed. Boris, for example, is wiser now, but was blasé enough about it to keep on shaking hands until he got it. Hancock/The Government didn't seem to notice how it spread in China, nor even when it hit Italy. We started with a health service with bare bones stocks and resources after 10 years of too little investment. In addition, nobody had grasped the nettle and looked at the care problem (as Corbyn had in the his manifesto). |
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