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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 12:40:05 GMT 1
Which I was very surprised about and agree on his final point, which I think Rabb missed the point on.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 29, 2020 13:03:48 GMT 1
PMQs with Starmer asking him about care home deaths, PPE, testing and SAGE wouldn't have been much fun either! Yeah, sure head s**tting himself over that😂😂😂 1st 2 questions wasted don’t you think? Well they were wasted in that raab was unable to answer the question properly and provided unhelpful incomplete answers |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 29, 2020 15:40:59 GMT 1
More chance of Wrexham playing in the premiership You're living in the political past, we are all in this together, it's not going to be one side shouting down everything the other side says and does for a long time. Don't underestimate Starmer, he has already earned a Sir, he'll ask pertinent questions and call out the government when it's needed, but support them when it's right to support them. "we are all in this together, it's not going to be one side shouting down everything the other side says and does for a long time. " i dont think Sturegon got the memo |
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 29, 2020 15:46:02 GMT 1
The baby was, I assume, born in an NHS hospital? With Boris' experience of the NHS in the last couple of months it will be safe to assume his intentions are right towards the NHS. He may still do things some don't like, but the concept of the NHS should be safe in his hands. He will go along with whatever Trump wants. There will be a limited number of options as to who wants trade deals with us, but any with Tangerine man will be heavily loaded in their favour. |
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 29, 2020 15:48:18 GMT 1
It is unfortunate timing though - I was looking forward to Starmer “tearing him a new one”. More chance of Wrexham playing in the premiership Well mate, there is no question as to which of the two is brighter, and it certainly ain’t BoJo. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 29, 2020 16:03:35 GMT 1
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-death-toll-london-now-21943264we all know it is has been very bad but this stat brings it home "The coronavirus death toll in London is now worse than at the height of the Blitz during World War Two. The deadly disease wiped out a recorded 4,697 in the capital in the four weeks up to April 17, according to a BBC count of data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS). A total of 4,677 people were killed in the city by Hitler's Luftwaffe at the height of the Blitz bombings in the 28 days to October 4, 1940. That period began before numbers peaked and once the next set is released early next month it is expected to show a tally drastically dwarfing those of 1940." when this is over there needs to an independent inquiry into the goverments lack of preardness, the department that failed to ensure enough supplies of crucial equipment and ppe were not avaiable, the failrue to track, trace and quarantine/ self isolate people, the failure to test people arriving from hot spots, the failure to ban flights from hot spots. etc and not the usual kick the can down the road and produce somthing in 5 years time or the usual whitewash.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 29, 2020 16:18:41 GMT 1
The baby was, I assume, born in an NHS hospital? With Boris' experience of the NHS in the last couple of months it will be safe to assume his intentions are right towards the NHS. He may still do things some don't like, but the concept of the NHS should be safe in his hands. He will go along with whatever Trump wants. There will be a limited number of options as to who wants trade deals with us, but any with Tangerine man will be heavily loaed in their favour. Have to hope Tangerine man doesn't win again, though you always have to bhe careful with the U.S. |
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Post by salop27 on Apr 29, 2020 16:20:04 GMT 1
The baby was, I assume, born in an NHS hospital? With Boris' experience of the NHS in the last couple of months it will be safe to assume his intentions are right towards the NHS. He may still do things some don't like, but the concept of the NHS should be safe in his hands. He will go along with whatever Trump wants. There will be a limited number of options as to who wants trade deals with us, but any with Tangerine man will be heavily loaded in their favour. Looks more and more likely Trump will be out of a job by the end of the year which will cause trouble for many who lazily like to comment that the UK does whatever Trump wants! |
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Post by venceremos on Apr 29, 2020 16:28:48 GMT 1
He will go along with whatever Trump wants. There will be a limited number of options as to who wants trade deals with us, but any with Tangerine man will be heavily loaded in their favour. Looks more and more likely Trump will be out of a job by the end of the year which will cause trouble for many who lazily like to comment that the UK does whatever Trump wants! Not me - I believe the UK does whatever America wants.  Anyway, this "trouble" would be a bridge I would deliriously cross when and if we came to it. Champagne ready to pop, come the day. |
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Post by Exkeeper on Apr 29, 2020 17:01:49 GMT 1
He will go along with whatever Trump wants. There will be a limited number of options as to who wants trade deals with us, but any with Tangerine man will be heavily loaded in their favour. Looks more and more likely Trump will be out of a job by the end of the year which will cause trouble for many who lazily like to comment that the UK does whatever Trump wants! I assume that you have been told that by Putin, as I have several relatives from New York down to Texas, from both sides of the divide, and it is not the way they see things. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 18:52:26 GMT 1
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdownBoris Johnson’s most powerful political aide pressed the U.K.’s independent scientific advisers to recommend lockdown measures in an effort to stop the spread of coronavirus, according to people familiar with the matter. According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak. Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were. The prime minister’s office denied that political advisers influenced the experts on the SAGE committee and said it was appropriate for aides to sit in on meetings and to ask questions. The two people who took part in the meeting said Cummings’s actions went further than simply asking for information. The suggestion that Cummings influenced the group’s lockdown decisions is likely to cast doubt on the government’s assurances that it has simply followed scientific advice throughout the crisis. See this has been brushed over, the way I read this then is that the Government wanted a lockdown, but the scientists and medics wanted the Swedish model of heard immunity..... And most people wanted lockdown anyway?? And the whole issue is that we did not lockdown earlier.... so has the alleged intervention been good or bad.... |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 29, 2020 20:16:24 GMT 1
The ONS and CQC continue to put out more reliable but slower statistics which include reports of people who were suspected to have the disease but were never diagnosed and, as a result, put the number of people dying outside of hospitals significantly higher.
ONS data suggests that the real number of victims may be 55 per cent higher than the Government is letting on, putting the figure at more than 40,000 already. Records in Scotland, meanwhile, show hospital deaths now account for just 52 per cent of fatalities, suggesting the true number is 43,000. The Financial Times estimates that 47,000 people have died already.
The Department of Health's data today, however, suggests that hospital patients still make up 83 per cent of all fatalities - something which is not borne out by any other statistics being published in the UK.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 29, 2020 20:38:39 GMT 1
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdownBoris Johnson’s most powerful political aide pressed the U.K.’s independent scientific advisers to recommend lockdown measures in an effort to stop the spread of coronavirus, according to people familiar with the matter. According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak. Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were. The prime minister’s office denied that political advisers influenced the experts on the SAGE committee and said it was appropriate for aides to sit in on meetings and to ask questions. The two people who took part in the meeting said Cummings’s actions went further than simply asking for information. The suggestion that Cummings influenced the group’s lockdown decisions is likely to cast doubt on the government’s assurances that it has simply followed scientific advice throughout the crisis. See this has been brushed over, the way I read this then is that the Government wanted a lockdown, but the scientists and medics wanted the Swedish model of heard immunity..... And most people wanted lockdown anyway?? And the whole issue is that we did not lockdown earlier.... so has the alleged intervention been good or bad.... You don't really believe that a top Tory advisor would force through trashing the economy without overwhelming scientific advice do you? More likely he had an influence on us not going into lockdown earlier and I can understand that - it's a huge step to take. Personally, I would have asked asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and (checked if) pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days so as to check exactly how determined the advisors were about the need for lockdown and also to see if a part lockdown of just the pubs and restaurants could save having to close down manufacturing. |
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Post by aghabullogueshrew on Apr 29, 2020 22:07:35 GMT 1
This government came into power with a massive majority and still on high from getting "that which cannot be named" passed through Parliament.
I am not a supporter of this government, but I do believe this has been a "Perfect Storm" of a crisis! Firstly, the NHS has been underfunded for years because of "That which cannot be named" and so the government was in serious trouble from the very beginning! Secondly, the government tried to find an "alternative" ,i.e. Cheap, solution to Covid 19, and they found Herd Immunity. By the time they realised that Herd Immunity wasn't going to work, they shutdown the country way too late, i.e. Let 's have Cheltenham go ahead and play some more football matches! They then have to scramble around for PPE and ventilators and are at the back of a very long queue!
Then Bojo goes down with Covid 19 and the MP's who supported him during the last leadership battle, i.e. The Cabinet, are wheeled out before the cameras like a bunch of startled rabbits! Jaysus, can't we just have one face in front of the camera each day instead of playing the cabinet lottery every day to see who turns up! It is clear that Bojo has his friends in important roles in the cabinet and not experienced or qualified people! Then the main party sponsors are putting pressure on the government to get the country back to work or they will withdraw their support! And finally we are starting to get the real figures on Covid 19 and the private care homes, owned by faceless companies who pay their workers a pittance, are letting their staff, carers and patients down in an horrendous way!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 22:51:43 GMT 1
See this has been brushed over, the way I read this then is that the Government wanted a lockdown, but the scientists and medics wanted the Swedish model of heard immunity..... And most people wanted lockdown anyway?? And the whole issue is that we did not lockdown earlier.... so has the alleged intervention been good or bad.... You don't really believe that a top Tory advisor would force through trashing the economy without overwhelming scientific advice do you? More likely he had an influence on us not going into lockdown earlier and I can understand that - it's a huge step to take. Personally, I would have asked asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and (checked if) pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days so as to check exactly how determined the advisors were about the need for lockdown and also to see if a part lockdown of just the pubs and restaurants could save having to close down manufacturing. I am sure it says that the government were trying to go to lockdown earlier.... so do we believe the whistleblower or not... cos it clearly says cumming was advocating a lockdown |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 30, 2020 10:29:27 GMT 1
Interesting article on South Korea. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/south-korea-beating-coronavirus-citizens-state-testingSouth Korea is one of the few countries that has succeeded in flattening the coronavirus curve. Its policy of testing, tracing and treating without lockdowns has been widely lauded. The roots of South Korea’s success against Covid-19 are a well-funded and efficient system of delivering public services. Without this baseline infrastructure, the policy of test, trace and treat could not have been sustained or expanded to the degree that it has. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2020 10:58:47 GMT 1
Interesting article on South Korea. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/south-korea-beating-coronavirus-citizens-state-testingSouth Korea is one of the few countries that has succeeded in flattening the coronavirus curve. Its policy of testing, tracing and treating without lockdowns has been widely lauded. The roots of South Korea’s success against Covid-19 are a well-funded and efficient system of delivering public services. Without this baseline infrastructure, the policy of test, trace and treat could not have been sustained or expanded to the degree that it has. new zealand are now in a phased reduction of lockdown, sweden who went with a vounterry lockdown whilst keeping nearly everything open was very reliant on the public taking resposability which they have with 90% following goverment guidlines , the Swedish goverment belived it has already peaked. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2020 11:38:04 GMT 1
personally i think the goverment exteding the lockdown based on a fear of a spike in cases makes no sense, if the fear of a spike is the main reason for not doing it then the logic makes no sense you will get a spike at each phase of easing the lockdown so they might as well do it as unoffically it is already happening.( i am one of the group with a high risk of complications from this virus) the main thing is do a better job of shielding the vunerable groups. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review"There has not been a single instance of a child under 10 transmitting the virus, even in contact tracing carried out by the WHO" since the risk is low i dont see why primary schools are not reopened, Sweden did not close primary schools, with teachers having ppe and school drop offs and picks monitored for safe distancing |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 30, 2020 11:56:12 GMT 1
Boris Johnson will on Thursday warn the nation not to expect major changes to the lockdown after it emerged Britain has one of the world’s worst coronavirus death rates.
The Prime Minister will use his first Downing Street press conference since his return to work to explain why social restrictions must largely remain in place.
Data published by the Cabinet Office on Wednesday show Spain and Belgium are the only two countries with a worse per-head death rate than Britain.
On eight separate days this month, more than 1,000 people died of the virus, detailed statistics for accumulated deaths in hospitals, care homes and other settings showed.
Mr Johnson will chair a Cabinet meeting on Thursday morning at which ministers will discuss the way forward, but it became clear on Wednesday that they favour a highly cautious approach to lifting the restrictions.
Daily Telegraph.
To find out why we have such an appalling record (it could already be over 41,000 deaths if we take into account care homes deaths where the deceased weren't tested even though there was Covid-19 present in the homes) is presumably the job of the inevitable future Inquiry.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2020 12:22:26 GMT 1
Boris Johnson will on Thursday warn the nation not to expect major changes to the lockdown after it emerged Britain has one of the world’s worst coronavirus death rates. The Prime Minister will use his first Downing Street press conference since his return to work to explain why social restrictions must largely remain in place. Data published by the Cabinet Office on Wednesday show Spain and Belgium are the only two countries with a worse per-head death rate than Britain. On eight separate days this month, more than 1,000 people died of the virus, detailed statistics for accumulated deaths in hospitals, care homes and other settings showed. Mr Johnson will chair a Cabinet meeting on Thursday morning at which ministers will discuss the way forward, but it became clear on Wednesday that they favour a highly cautious approach to lifting the restrictions. Daily Telegraph. To find out why we have such an appalling record (it could already be over 41,000 deaths if we take into account care homes deaths where the deceased weren't tested even though there was Covid-19 present in the homes) is presumably the job of the inevitable future Inquiry. ( been cautious now is a case of locking the door after the horse has bolted )if we had antibody testing we woiuld know what % of the population have had the virus.. it also misses the point that whenever we have a phased reduction of the lockdown we will have an increase in case so it makes no sense. |
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2020 12:31:31 GMT 1
Interesting article on South Korea. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/south-korea-beating-coronavirus-citizens-state-testingSouth Korea is one of the few countries that has succeeded in flattening the coronavirus curve. Its policy of testing, tracing and treating without lockdowns has been widely lauded. The roots of South Korea’s success against Covid-19 are a well-funded and efficient system of delivering public services. Without this baseline infrastructure, the policy of test, trace and treat could not have been sustained or expanded to the degree that it has. new zealand are now in a phased reduction of lockdown, sweden who went with a vounterry lockdown whilst keeping nearly everything open was very reliant on the public taking resposability which they have with 90% following goverment guidlines , the Swedish goverment belived it has already peaked. Sweden’s death rate is low compared to ours, but it’s a much less densely populated country. The better comparison for Sweden is with other Scandinavian countries and its death rate is significantly higher than those, like Norway, that imposed stricter controls. |
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Post by venceremos on Apr 30, 2020 12:36:46 GMT 1
personally i think the goverment exteding the lockdown based on a fear of a spike in cases makes no sense, if the fear of a spike is the main reason for not doing it then the logic makes no sense you will get a spike at each phase of easing the lockdown so they might as well do it as unoffically it is already happening.( i am one of the group with a high risk of complications from this virus) the main thing is do a better job of shielding the vunerable groups. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review"There has not been a single instance of a child under 10 transmitting the virus, even in contact tracing carried out by the WHO" since the risk is low i dont see why primary schools are not reopened, Sweden did not close primary schools, with teachers having ppe and school drop offs and picks monitored for safe distancing Without comprehensive testing, how can it be known that no children under 10 have transmitted the virus? Also, the virus-related toxic shock syndrome that’s been affecting a so far small number of children shouldn’t be ignored. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 30, 2020 13:15:30 GMT 1
Ignore official figures and look at what data journalists are doing: link |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 30, 2020 13:16:02 GMT 1
It toxic shock the same as septic shock?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 30, 2020 13:22:41 GMT 1
personally i think the goverment exteding the lockdown based on a fear of a spike in cases makes no sense, if the fear of a spike is the main reason for not doing it then the logic makes no sense you will get a spike at each phase of easing the lockdown so they might as well do it as unoffically it is already happening.( i am one of the group with a high risk of complications from this virus) the main thing is do a better job of shielding the vunerable groups. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review"There has not been a single instance of a child under 10 transmitting the virus, even in contact tracing carried out by the WHO" since the risk is low i dont see why primary schools are not reopened, Sweden did not close primary schools, with teachers having ppe and school drop offs and picks monitored for safe distancing Without comprehensive testing, how can it be known that no children under 10 have transmitted the virus? Also, the virus-related toxic shock syndrome that’s been affecting a so far small number of children shouldn’t be ignored. Swedens primary schools have remained open . uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-sweden-education/swedish-parents-fret-as-schools-stay-open-amid-european-virus-shutdown-idUKKBN21E2NH"The Swedish Health Agency says that it does not believe school children are transmitting the disease to a great extent and that the costs of drastic measures outweigh the benefits." whilst the atricle showes that parents are worried about there children going to school, only time will tell if there aproach was the right one,in a years time we will know. the virus-related toxic shock syndrome is serious it has only affected a small number of children, this syndrome must be affecting swedish children as well . |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 14:16:24 GMT 1
See this has been brushed over, the way I read this then is that the Government wanted a lockdown, but the scientists and medics wanted the Swedish model of heard immunity..... And most people wanted lockdown anyway?? And the whole issue is that we did not lockdown earlier.... so has the alleged intervention been good or bad.... You don't really believe that a top Tory advisor would force through trashing the economy without overwhelming scientific advice do you? More likely he had an influence on us not going into lockdown earlier and I can understand that - it's a huge step to take. Personally, I would have asked asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and (checked if) pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days so as to check exactly how determined the advisors were about the need for lockdown and also to see if a part lockdown of just the pubs and restaurants could save having to close down manufacturing. This is pretty much what I expected on this to be honest, but disappointing, as this shows that the Government actually do care, and that the view is for the best for the country despite the economic damage, but instead it gets brushed aside by the majority as it does not sit with the agenda that the government are all lying barstewards, and hate the population. The silence on this board about this is deafening.... |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 30, 2020 14:29:52 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8273135/Over-50s-kept-coronavirus-lockdown-longer.htmlKeeping the over-50s in isolation longer and requiring people to prove their age when out and about is 'the safest way out of lockdown', researchers claim. A Warwick University study found that a 'rolling age-release strategy' was the best option to end the lockdown introduced to slow the spread of the deadly coronavirus. The strategy proposed by researchers is based on the fact that death rates from COVID-19 among 50-year-olds are 20 times higher than deaths among 20-year-olds. Study authors wrote that that police officers would have to be given the power to fine those caught breaking the age rule to ensure it was followed. The Warwick team say the hardest part could be in convincing the public of the importance and benefit of a rolling age-release strategy. And these are so called experts!
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 30, 2020 15:40:10 GMT 1
personally i think the goverment exteding the lockdown based on a fear of a spike in cases makes no sense, if the fear of a spike is the main reason for not doing it then the logic makes no sense you will get a spike at each phase of easing the lockdown so they might as well do it as unoffically it is already happening.( i am one of the group with a high risk of complications from this virus) the main thing is do a better job of shielding the vunerable groups. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/no-case-child-passing-coronavirus-adult-exists-evidence-review"There has not been a single instance of a child under 10 transmitting the virus, even in contact tracing carried out by the WHO" since the risk is low i dont see why primary schools are not reopened, Sweden did not close primary schools, with teachers having ppe and school drop offs and picks monitored for safe distancing There are practical problems with reopening primary schools, for example at the school where my daughter works several of the staff are either in at risk groups due to age or health conditions. So they could not operate with safe staffing levels. They also don’t know how they will keep the usual educational materials safe and hygienic. How do you control the use of pencils, paint, play dough etc? What do they do about young children soiling themselves? There’s not enough PPE for front line NHS workers so where are schools to get it from? There’s also the fact that most parents do not want their children in school while there’s so much uncertainty about how the disease is spread and the threat of the new illness that’s affecting children. My daughter’s school was available for children of key workers but nobody turned up, they preferred to make their own arrangements. The teaching staff are providing lessons remotely and advising parents by phone or Zoom etc. They are preparing for a normal reopening for the new academic year, but numbers committing to attend are too small to make it viable at present. |
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 30, 2020 15:52:11 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8273135/Over-50s-kept-coronavirus-lockdown-longer.htmlKeeping the over-50s in isolation longer and requiring people to prove their age when out and about is 'the safest way out of lockdown', researchers claim. A Warwick University study found that a 'rolling age-release strategy' was the best option to end the lockdown introduced to slow the spread of the deadly coronavirus. The strategy proposed by researchers is based on the fact that death rates from COVID-19 among 50-year-olds are 20 times higher than deaths among 20-year-olds. Study authors wrote that that police officers would have to be given the power to fine those caught breaking the age rule to ensure it was followed. The Warwick team say the hardest part could be in convincing the public of the importance and benefit of a rolling age-release strategy. And these are so called experts! It also says that 66% of critically ill people are either overweight or obese, so why no suggestion that they must be kept under lockdown? I really don’t agree with the blanket approach. I am 72, with low blood pressure, on no medication, a non smoker who is fit and takes daily exercise. I’m a lot fitter and healthier than many people half my age, until I see evidence to the contrary I’ll contend that the over 50s who are severely ill now were fat and unfit when they were 25. Having said all that I don’t intend to break my own lockdown anytime soon, but I do think these very broad brush reports have limited credibility. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 30, 2020 16:16:16 GMT 1
According to the Warwick team it would be 49, pass friend, 50? Back in your box! No matter what your health, absurd.
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