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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 17:42:25 GMT 1
I quite honestly do not know enough to determine if the government are doing a good or bad job, I certainly think things could have been better, but they could also have been worse.
Knee jerk reaction to evictions is a poor piece of legislation.... as took no notice of evictions that we’re already in the system that have no link whatsoever to Covid 19, but I can see why they have done it, although it’s costing me an absolute fortune.
Think what they have done for employed people and keeping businesses going is good, and it’s the banks that are slowing up others. I did not qualify for a CBILS loan by HSBC, which is interest free and so on, but they were willing to give me a loan at normal commercial rates, not sure how that helps or works.
As Self employed, I don’t qualify for any assistance but can see why they have done it.
As for everything else, we will only really know in the fullness of time as to world outcomes and so on....
So in short, we are to early in this pandemic to fully decide what they have done is right or wrong.
The one thing for sure though, is that there will always be someone sniping at everything, so dammed if the do and dammed if they don’t
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 11:08:46 GMT 1
Jenny Harries was put under pressure from Jeremy Hunt on her infamous comments that it was "not appropriate" for the UK — and why the UK stopped testing.
She said we didn't have the capacity for mass community testing.
We would have continued mass testing if we had the capacity she suggested.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 11:19:24 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 5, 2020 12:00:15 GMT 1
Forget the government, any government, and any company and wether they are, or are not, doing the right thing, a lot of things we do in the near future are going to be down to our own common sense. I would have got off when the plane loaded up past any semblence of social distancing and I would have expected an additional flight to be laid on. It's not like they are short of spare planes currently. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 5, 2020 15:11:46 GMT 1
from the mail
"Just 273 out of 18 MILLION arrivals to the UK before coronavirus lockdown were quarantined - as top scientist reveals Britain got a 'big influx' of coronavirus from people who were allowed to return unchecked from hotspots in Italy and Spain
Mapping of the Covid-19 genome shows UK cases come from all over the world But Sir Patrick Vallance said a large number of cases in early March from Europe
Told MPs it was caused by 'the high level of travel into the UK around that time."
this just confirms what we already know and showes how utterly incompetent our goverment have been, on the day the uk has the worst death rate in europe
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 15:36:46 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8288363/Britain-got-big-influx-coronavirus-people-returning-unchecked-Italy-Spain.htmlBritain quarantined just 273 out of 18.1million people who arrived in the UK in the three months before the coronavirus lockdown, damning new figures reveal today. The occupants of three flights from the outbreak ground zero in the Chinese city of Wuhan and another bringing home passengers from a cruise ship of Japan were the only ones taken to secure facilities in the UK. But millions more entering the UK between the start of 2020 and March 22 were able to enter freely and only advised to self-isolate, according to figures obtained by the Guardian. It came as it also emerged the UK suffered a 'big influx' of coronavirus from arrivals from Italy and Spain who were not quarantined. Giving evidence to the Health and Social Care Committee this morning, Sir Patrick said that experts on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) had advised ministers they would have to be 'extremely draconian' in blocking travel from whole countries otherwise 'it really was not worth trying to do it.' 'Whether that was people returning from half-term, whether it is business travellers or not, we don’t know,' he told MPs. 'But a lot of the cases in the UK didn’t come from China and didn't come from the places you might have expected. 'They actually came from European imports and the high level of travel into the UK around that time.' Thank you Patrick Vallance for actually putting this into the public domain.
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 5, 2020 15:58:45 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8288363/Britain-got-big-influx-coronavirus-people-returning-unchecked-Italy-Spain.htmlBritain quarantined just 273 out of 18.1million people who arrived in the UK in the three months before the coronavirus lockdown, damning new figures reveal today. The occupants of three flights from the outbreak ground zero in the Chinese city of Wuhan and another bringing home passengers from a cruise ship of Japan were the only ones taken to secure facilities in the UK. But millions more entering the UK between the start of 2020 and March 22 were able to enter freely and only advised to self-isolate, according to figures obtained by the Guardian. It came as it also emerged the UK suffered a 'big influx' of coronavirus from arrivals from Italy and Spain who were not quarantined. Giving evidence to the Health and Social Care Committee this morning, Sir Patrick said that experts on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) had advised ministers they would have to be 'extremely draconian' in blocking travel from whole countries otherwise 'it really was not worth trying to do it.' 'Whether that was people returning from half-term, whether it is business travellers or not, we don’t know,' he told MPs. 'But a lot of the cases in the UK didn’t come from China and didn't come from the places you might have expected. 'They actually came from European imports and the high level of travel into the UK around that time.' Thank you Patrick Vallance for actually putting this into the public domain. the hot spot in south wales came from a rugby game with an italian team from norther italy who brought a number of fans with them, you just could not make it. |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 5, 2020 16:15:50 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 16:27:31 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8288363/Britain-got-big-influx-coronavirus-people-returning-unchecked-Italy-Spain.htmlBritain quarantined just 273 out of 18.1million people who arrived in the UK in the three months before the coronavirus lockdown, damning new figures reveal today. The occupants of three flights from the outbreak ground zero in the Chinese city of Wuhan and another bringing home passengers from a cruise ship of Japan were the only ones taken to secure facilities in the UK. But millions more entering the UK between the start of 2020 and March 22 were able to enter freely and only advised to self-isolate, according to figures obtained by the Guardian. It came as it also emerged the UK suffered a 'big influx' of coronavirus from arrivals from Italy and Spain who were not quarantined. Giving evidence to the Health and Social Care Committee this morning, Sir Patrick said that experts on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) had advised ministers they would have to be 'extremely draconian' in blocking travel from whole countries otherwise 'it really was not worth trying to do it.' 'Whether that was people returning from half-term, whether it is business travellers or not, we don’t know,' he told MPs. 'But a lot of the cases in the UK didn’t come from China and didn't come from the places you might have expected. 'They actually came from European imports and the high level of travel into the UK around that time.' Thank you Patrick Vallance for actually putting this into the public domain. the hot spot in south wales came from a rugby game with an italian team from norther italy who brought a number of fans with them, you just could not make it. If you recall the maps which were issued at the beginning of recognized cases in the UK, a very high % of those identified were individuals returning from Italy. Yet nothing had been done to deal with this, other than to ask everyone to self isolate. Either because: 1. We didn't have enough testing equipment available. (Jenny Harries has confirmed this) 2. We hadn't enough quarantine centres available. 3. We didn't want to disrupt the economy by preventing businessmen from moving around. 4. We didn't want to cough up the money for keeping UK nationals out of the country until they'd been cleared of Covid-19. 5. Boris was otherwise engaged taking breaks in the West Indies and Chevening. 6. Cummings effectively overruled SAGE. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 18:36:04 GMT 1
Interested in point 6, no need to copy and paste. But how has cCummings overruled SAGE
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 19:44:47 GMT 1
Interested in point 6, no need to copy and paste. But how has cCummings overruled SAGE I only listed it as a possibility that he might have influenced them, but according to Vallance, SAGE recognised that if anything effective was going to be achieved, then flights would need to be blocked from elsewhere. On March 2, scientists from Sage subcommittee SPI-M-O, the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling, said: "It is highly likely that there is a sustained transmission of Covid-19 in the UK at present." But lockdown did not start until March 23. On March 12th, although opinion at Sage was divided, the argument for a herd immunity approach won out. The established narrative suggests that the government’s strategy for managing the pandemic initially depended on “herd immunity” – a policy tantamount to doing nothing to contain the spread of the virus. Cummings was allegedly supportive of this. But the combination of public revulsion at the government’s apparent readiness to let tens of thousands get sick and die, combined with a frightening report published by Imperial College London on March 16th about what would happen if stronger measures were not adopted (with a death toll of up to 250,000), forced the government to embrace new containment strategies. After the Imperial College report, Cummings changed his view and became one of the strongest advocates in government for tough restrictions to curb the spread of the virus, the Sunday Times said. It quoted one anonymous senior Conservative as saying: “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’ to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy’.” But if before March 16th Cummings and the government were backing a herd immunity policy, then he may have pointed out to SAGE that their suggestion about blocking flights was misguided. About half of SAGE are employed by the government. |
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 20:23:42 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 20:40:59 GMT 1
At least 20,000 people infected with coronavirus entered the UK before lockdown, but fewer than 300 were quarantined, official figures reveal.
These arrivals would have infected some 50,000 more people given the World Health Organisation’s assessment of an average transmission rate at the start of March of between 2 and 2.5.
Figures provided to the home affairs committee by the Home Office show that between January 1 and the end of March 18.1 million people entered the UK without any health checks including from coronavirus hotspot countries. Of these, just 273 were quarantined.
Even by conservative estimates of prevalence, this would have meant 20,000 being infected.
The arrivals were only asked to self-isolate if they had symptoms unlike other countries like New Zealand, Singapore, Canada, Australia and Italy which closed their borders, quarantined or introduced supervised self-isolation.
Stephen Doughty, a member of the Home Affairs Committee, said it “beggared belief” that only the 273 Britons extracted from Wuhan or who had been on the Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan were quarantined when the pandemic was “already raging in a series of locations.”
“On what scientific basis were a handful of flights from Wuhan and one from Tokyo singled out for extreme attention? But not a single flight from Northern Italy, Spain or the US?
“The fact that many of these people then likely arrived and travelled onwards across the UK with little or no adherence to social distancing, and with no checks or protections at the border – barely a whiff of hand sanitiser – is deeply disturbing. Let alone the arrival of 3,000 fans from Madrid as the pandemic picked up speed.
“Yet arrivals continue to this day – with no formal quarantine requirements. It is simply staggering. Who made these decisions? And on what basis?”
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by northwestman on May 5, 2020 21:01:51 GMT 1
A huge swathe of coronavirus documents used by the Government to battle to pandemic have yet to be published to avoid 'unnecessary confusion' of the public, the Government claimed today. They include advise for ministers on stopping flights from certain countries, on when to stop contact tracing, and another on the impact of school closures. The list also includes unpublished documents on the use of face masks, the risk of pets passing on the virus, and advice on restricting flights from specific countries. These are all highly contentious issues as the death toll mounts and the Government seeks a way out of the current lockdown. Additionally, some of the documents released today included heavily redacted pages, including one on how to relax lockdown measures. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8289755/Secret-SAGE-files-government-DOESNT-want-Advice-stopping-flights-documents.html |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 5, 2020 22:02:19 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 5, 2020 22:13:07 GMT 1
what does that say about his judgment |
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 6, 2020 0:20:41 GMT 1
what does that say about his judgment Not a clever move by him. Then again, perhaps I'm cynical, but it's strange that a story of this comes out about possibly the most vocally critical member of sage, on the day where our death toll becomes the highest in Europe and the paper who breaks the story has or recently had a Boris column.... |
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Post by northwestman on May 6, 2020 8:43:43 GMT 1
what does that say about his judgment Not a clever move by him. Then again, perhaps I'm cynical, but it's strange that a story of this comes out about possibly the most vocally critical member of sage, on the day where our death toll becomes the highest in Europe and the paper who breaks the story has or recently had a Boris column.... I've found from my research in recent weeks that the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail have joined the Guardian and the Times in producing articles that are ultra critical of the Government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. Only the Daily Express is still firmly in the Boris camp. |
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Post by shrewder on May 6, 2020 8:53:06 GMT 1
what does that say about his judgment Yes he was wrong. Bit harsh, people who live in glass houses etc |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 6, 2020 9:28:33 GMT 1
what does that say about his judgment Yes he was wrong. Bit harsh, people who live in glass houses etc His judgement led us into lockdown though. We jumped into his boat and it turns out it had a hole in it. |
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Post by davycrockett on May 6, 2020 9:44:01 GMT 1
Not a clever move by him. Then again, perhaps I'm cynical, but it's strange that a story of this comes out about possibly the most vocally critical member of sage, on the day where our death toll becomes the highest in Europe and the paper who breaks the story has or recently had a Boris column.... I've found from my research in recent weeks that the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail have joined the Guardian and the Times in producing articles that are ultra critical of the Government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. Only the Daily Express is still firmly in the Boris camp. I can just imagine your ‘office’ full of monitors, computers graphs on walls et al........ or do you get your papers delivered 😂 |
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Post by londonshrew75 on May 6, 2020 9:51:19 GMT 1
Rest assure we're in good hands. The reason our figures are now the highest in Europe is the possibility that we "count differently".
Let's wait until the end of the year and then we really will get to the truth about this joke government that (some of you lot must have) voted for..
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on May 6, 2020 10:05:56 GMT 1
The hero of the B&A doom-mongers, Shagger Ferguson, caught with his pants around his ankles. Genuine confusion in my household about whether this deposes Shagger Curran of the moniker we all fondly use for him.
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Post by stfcfan87 on May 6, 2020 11:11:19 GMT 1
Not a clever move by him. Then again, perhaps I'm cynical, but it's strange that a story of this comes out about possibly the most vocally critical member of sage, on the day where our death toll becomes the highest in Europe and the paper who breaks the story has or recently had a Boris column.... I've found from my research in recent weeks that the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail have joined the Guardian and the Times in producing articles that are ultra critical of the Government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. Only the Daily Express is still firmly in the Boris camp. Not sure I agree there. They might be critical of certain decisions or ministers, but some of those haven't been critical of Boris - in fact he's been painted as a hero, close to death miraculous survivor |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 11:18:50 GMT 1
The hero of the B&A doom-mongers, Shagger Ferguson, caught with his pants around his ankles. Genuine confusion in my household about whether this deposes Shagger Curran of the moniker we all fondly use for him. You must be referring to the young cricketer . No confusion in my household . Shagger Johnson still holds on to the moniker we all fondly use for him . In fact I have to say I cannot see him being deposed of this moniker as you so crudely put it , for quite some time . Mind you Shagger Windsor is coming up hard on the rails . |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 6, 2020 11:19:00 GMT 1
Not a clever move by him. Then again, perhaps I'm cynical, but it's strange that a story of this comes out about possibly the most vocally critical member of sage, on the day where our death toll becomes the highest in Europe and the paper who breaks the story has or recently had a Boris column.... I've found from my research in recent weeks that the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail have joined the Guardian and the Times in producing articles that are ultra critical of the Government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. Only the Daily Express is still firmly in the Boris camp. Oh dear, when you study all the papers your poor paperboy has struggled up to your place with, or has slowed down the internet for miles around with, you will find Boris cannot even rely on the Daily Express www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1278497/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-boris-johnson-ease-lockdownNow that all the papers are tearing the government to bits you can see why Cummings was sitting in on SAGE meetings talking about lockdown, he had the Tory "brand" to protect. |
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Post by staffordshrew on May 6, 2020 11:31:20 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 6, 2020 11:40:03 GMT 1
I've found from my research in recent weeks that the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail have joined the Guardian and the Times in producing articles that are ultra critical of the Government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. Only the Daily Express is still firmly in the Boris camp. Not sure I agree there. They might be critical of certain decisions or ministers, but some of those haven't been critical of Boris - in fact he's been painted as a hero, close to death miraculous survivor I take your point. The Mail's coverage of Boris Johnson's illness was in sharp contrast to this piece in the Guardian, which took a more balanced approach: www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/boris-johnson-and-coronavirus-inside-story-illnessBoris has milked his illness for all it's worth by his detailed revelations to the Sun. The Mail amongst others has been vomit inducing in its coverage of the new baby, and we still have the wedding to come! |
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Post by northwestman on May 6, 2020 12:02:03 GMT 1
Ferguson hasn't got the best of records has he? His latest projection of about 20,000 UK deaths has long since gone up in flames. |
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Post by northwestman on May 6, 2020 12:43:01 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8292011/UKs-chief-scientist-admits-Government-not-restricted-coronavirus-testing.html'A senior minister today admitted that mass testing which could have helped the UK avoid the worst coronavirus death toll in Europe should not have been stopped. Security minister James Brokenshire admitted that 'capacity constraints' earlier in the coronavirus crisis meant contact tracing among the public was abandoned in March. When the first cases of the coronavirus appeared in the UK every person suspected of having it was being tested and any positive cases would be quarantined in a specialist disease hospital. As the infection spread, however, the Government gave up trying to test everyone. On March 12, officials announced testing would be limited to patients and staff in hospitals so that authorities could focus on preparing hospitals for disaster. That policy continued for six weeks until April 28, when testing was expanded to key workers and over-65s with symptoms, and later to those without signs of the illness'. This admission of lack of capacity only confirms what a fair number of people suspected already. Indeed, Boris seems to have just admitted it at PMQs. But this information had to effectively be dragged out of this government. The amount of obfuscation at the time they abandoned testing in March was disgraceful. E.g. 'Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, said on March 12: 'It is no longer necessary for us to identify every case'. No mention of lack of capacity there!
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