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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 10:22:07 GMT 1
So Boris is urging is to have 'one last heave for freedom', that sounds familiar. But what happens in 3 or 4 weeks when cases are still high or have gone even higher? As all these experts are predicting all sorts of scary numbers (again very familiar) then it's presumably reasonable to expect cases to be similar numbers, if not higher in 3 weeks time? I think he's banking on all over 50s being double vaccinated and nearly all 18+ having had a single shot. Plus schools will be off for summer. I think it has nothing to do with case numbers, it's more about vaccination numbers.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jun 14, 2021 10:24:42 GMT 1
So Boris is urging is to have 'one last heave for freedom', that sounds familiar. But what happens in 3 or 4 weeks when cases are still high or have gone even higher? As all these experts are predicting all sorts of scary numbers (again very familiar) then it's presumably reasonable to expect cases to be similar numbers, if not higher in 3 weeks time? We’ll then be waiting for a booster jab to be approved, to get in the arms of the most vulnerable, which then becomes all adults and children, scarily predictable. It’s too easy to say ‘just’ four more weeks, ‘just’ another couple of months etc.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 14, 2021 10:34:10 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9682673/DR-RENEE-HOENDERKAMP-allow-country-draconian-dystopia.html'There is now a very real danger that these infringements on ordinary, everyday life will continue not only the rest of the year but until next spring at least. When mid-July is here, the cheerleaders for lockdown will be pointing to the expected autumn surge in Covid cases. They will warn us that a few summer weeks of looser freedoms will lead to renewed viral outbreaks and will eventually trigger another full national shutdown'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 10:37:01 GMT 1
So Boris is urging is to have 'one last heave for freedom', that sounds familiar. But what happens in 3 or 4 weeks when cases are still high or have gone even higher? As all these experts are predicting all sorts of scary numbers (again very familiar) then it's presumably reasonable to expect cases to be similar numbers, if not higher in 3 weeks time? I think he's banking on all over 50s being double vaccinated and nearly all 18+ having had a single shot. Plus schools will be off for summer. I think it has nothing to do with case numbers, it's more about vaccination numbers. Whilst I see what you are saying, we both know full well that in 3 weeks time, cases will be high and people on SAGE, Independent SAGE and every other so called expert who wants their 5 minutes of fame will be splashed across the media saying cases are too high to remove restrictions. There will always be a reason.
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Post by mattmw on Jun 14, 2021 12:13:16 GMT 1
For once the Government seem to be doing the right thing and delaying full reopening.
The Delta varent has really taken hold in the UK and with cases rising a cautious approach is needed, and both hospital admissions and deaths are starting to increase. The good news is that 2 doses of the vaccine give really good protection, and a few more weeks of intensive vaccinations should see close to 80% of the population have 2 doeses, where as its around 57% now.
Much of the economy is recovering, as stages 2 and 3 of lock down came in, and economically the country is in a much better position that three months ago. Its hard on businesses like wedding venues and night clubs, what you really don't want is a big spike in cases and the risk of a new varient emrging.
The public health folk I work with are confident we're not far off really getting on top of Covid, but those extra few weeks of some restrictions really will make a big difference to case numbers and ultimately deaths from the disease
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Post by northwestman on Jun 14, 2021 12:45:28 GMT 1
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 13:19:20 GMT 1
2/3rds of people get no symptoms from Covid that should read A thoroughly predictable decision coming today. If the goalposts move any more they’ll be on another planet. Worrying and dangerous times
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Drew
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Post by Drew on Jun 14, 2021 13:23:18 GMT 1
I think he's banking on all over 50s being double vaccinated and nearly all 18+ having had a single shot. Plus schools will be off for summer. I think it has nothing to do with case numbers, it's more about vaccination numbers. Whilst I see what you are saying, we both know full well that in 3 weeks time, cases will be high and people on SAGE, Independent SAGE and every other so called expert who wants their 5 minutes of fame will be splashed across the media saying cases are too high to remove restrictions. There will always be a reason. Aye. First it was vaccinate the vulnerable. Now its vaccinate everyone over 18. In a months time it will be 'but children haven't been vaccinated'. Always an excuse.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 13:46:01 GMT 1
Whatever the government do there's cranks on either side that'll hate it.
Even if it's 4-8 weeks does anyone care that much? What is it stopping you doing that you can't do now?
I'd like to walk up and sit at the bar with a pint, but I'm not THAT bothered. The fact I can have a pint in a pub is enough for now!
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 13:51:59 GMT 1
Whatever the government do there's cranks on either side that'll hate it. Even if it's 4-8 weeks does anyone care that much? What is it stopping you doing that you can't do now? I'd like to walk up and sit at the bar with a pint, but I'm not THAT bothered. The fact I can have a pint in a pub is enough for now! Did you copy and paste this from 4 weeks ago? Or back in February when the roadmap was announced? Do you seriously still not see where this is going?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 14:00:32 GMT 1
Whatever the government do there's cranks on either side that'll hate it. Even if it's 4-8 weeks does anyone care that much? What is it stopping you doing that you can't do now? I'd like to walk up and sit at the bar with a pint, but I'm not THAT bothered. The fact I can have a pint in a pub is enough for now! Agree on the first line, but definitely not on the second Yes businesses and people do care, hospitality leaders have said a 4 week delay could result in losses of £3billion. It's a bit more than 'I can't order a pint at the bar'.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 14:10:08 GMT 1
Whatever the government do there's cranks on either side that'll hate it. Even if it's 4-8 weeks does anyone care that much? What is it stopping you doing that you can't do now? I'd like to walk up and sit at the bar with a pint, but I'm not THAT bothered. The fact I can have a pint in a pub is enough for now! Did you copy and paste this from 4 weeks ago? Or back in February when the roadmap was announced? Do you seriously still not see where this is going? The great reset is it? I suppose you're Bluetooth enabled from your jab as well, if you've bothered?
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 14:11:29 GMT 1
Whatever the government do there's cranks on either side that'll hate it. Even if it's 4-8 weeks does anyone care that much? What is it stopping you doing that you can't do now? I'd like to walk up and sit at the bar with a pint, but I'm not THAT bothered. The fact I can have a pint in a pub is enough for now! Agree on the first line, but definitely not on the second Yes businesses and people do care, hospitality leaders have said a 4 week delay could result in losses of £3billion. It's a bit more than 'I can't order a pint at the bar'. If there is a 4 week delay I doubt they'll be zero financial support for those industries. Why **** up the whole vaccination process, a few more weeks and practically everyone over 18 will have had a jab. (If they've had the sense to book one!)
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 14:20:14 GMT 1
Did you copy and paste this from 4 weeks ago? Or back in February when the roadmap was announced? Do you seriously still not see where this is going? The great reset is it? I suppose you're Bluetooth enabled from your jab as well, if you've bothered? So anyone who doesn’t want to have indefinite restrictions on our life is a vaccine krank now? Jeez Absolute madness we won’t be fully unlocking next Monday
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jun 14, 2021 14:21:06 GMT 1
Agree on the first line, but definitely not on the second Yes businesses and people do care, hospitality leaders have said a 4 week delay could result in losses of £3billion. It's a bit more than 'I can't order a pint at the bar'. Why **** up the whole vaccination process Can you not understand the anger and frustration that the vaccination process has already been ****ed up by the Indian/Delta variant, which the government thought was a great idea to leave the borders open for? It’s simple for me, cases are rising which means an extension to unlocking fully may make sense, but that the government and prime minister are solely to blame for this so people have every right to be angry. Also I’m booked in for my first jab this week, how do we know in four weeks time they won’t decide they want all adults double jabbed for maximum protection so restrictions won’t be lifted until September (by which point we’ll be in autumn flu season so best stay as we are through winter anyway to be on the safe side…) Call me a cynic, conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer or whatever, it’s just incredibly frustrating and I don’t understand people who accept it all with no questions, a smile and a shrug of the shoulders.
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Post by mattmw on Jun 14, 2021 14:47:50 GMT 1
The Independent have published some useful figures on the vaccine today which kind of shows the issues the Government is dealing with.
Under 50's with first does
16-29: 29% 30-34: 66% 35-39: 75% 40-44: 86% 45-49: 84%
Total population with 2 doses
16-29: 15% 30-34: 23% 35-39: 27% 40-44: 37% 45-49: 45% 50-54: 79% 55-59: 88% 60-64: 94% 65-69: 92% 70-74: 96% 75-79: 100% 80+: 93%
So there is a big differece on over 50 age group - which is not far off being fully vaccinated, and the under 50's who are not yet at the 50% rate for the second dose, but do have a high proportion of people who have had at lease one vaccine.
The vaccine programme is averaging around 300,000 vaccines a day so over the next 4 weeks a futher 8 million people should get their second jab, and the vast majority of those will be in the under 50 age group which isn't quite at the "herd immunity" level, but not far off. That would be a real step forward
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Post by champagneprince on Jun 14, 2021 14:55:35 GMT 1
It needs another month.
If people are p**sed off with the government then keep it in your memory banks and use it in your judgement at the next General Election.
But right now, we need another month.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 15:06:00 GMT 1
The Independent have published some useful figures on the vaccine today which kind of shows the issues the Government is dealing with. Under 50's with first does 16-29: 29% 30-34: 66% 35-39: 75% 40-44: 86% 45-49: 84% Total population with 2 doses 16-29: 15% 30-34: 23% 35-39: 27% 40-44: 37% 45-49: 45% 50-54: 79% 55-59: 88% 60-64: 94% 65-69: 92% 70-74: 96% 75-79: 100% 80+: 93% So there is a big differece on over 50 age group - which is not far off being fully vaccinated, and the under 50's who are not yet at the 50% rate for the second dose, but do have a high proportion of people who have had at lease one vaccine. The vaccine programme is averaging around 300,000 vaccines a day so over the next 4 weeks a futher 8 million people should get their second jab, and the vast majority of those will be in the under 50 age group which isn't quite at the "herd immunity" level, but not far off. That would be a real step forward Under 50’s are seldom seriously effected by Covid. Average age of a Covid death is 81 I believe A sizeable amount wouldn’t even realise they’ve got it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 15:09:43 GMT 1
Why **** up the whole vaccination process Can you not understand the anger and frustration that the vaccination process has already been ****ed up by the Indian/Delta variant, which the government thought was a great idea to leave the borders open for? It’s simple for me, cases are rising which means an extension to unlocking fully may make sense, but that the government and prime minister are solely to blame for this so people have every right to be angry. Also I’m booked in for my first jab this week, how do we know in four weeks time they won’t decide they want all adults double jabbed for maximum protection so restrictions won’t be lifted until September (by which point we’ll be in autumn flu season so best stay as we are through winter anyway to be on the safe side…) Call me a cynic, conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer or whatever, it’s just incredibly frustrating and I don’t understand people who accept it all with no questions, a smile and a shrug of the shoulders. Whatever way you look at it, this is a massive own goal by the government. They should be called to account right now never mind in x years time at a General Election. Even the most ardent Tory should recognise this.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 15:14:16 GMT 1
The Independent have published some useful figures on the vaccine today which kind of shows the issues the Government is dealing with. Under 50's with first does 16-29: 29% 30-34: 66% 35-39: 75% 40-44: 86% 45-49: 84% Total population with 2 doses 16-29: 15% 30-34: 23% 35-39: 27% 40-44: 37% 45-49: 45% 50-54: 79% 55-59: 88% 60-64: 94% 65-69: 92% 70-74: 96% 75-79: 100% 80+: 93% So there is a big differece on over 50 age group - which is not far off being fully vaccinated, and the under 50's who are not yet at the 50% rate for the second dose, but do have a high proportion of people who have had at lease one vaccine. The vaccine programme is averaging around 300,000 vaccines a day so over the next 4 weeks a futher 8 million people should get their second jab, and the vast majority of those will be in the under 50 age group which isn't quite at the "herd immunity" level, but not far off. That would be a real step forward This is the exact point, we can jab so, so many people in 4 weeks and get very close to herd immunity.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 14, 2021 15:47:21 GMT 1
The great reset is it? I suppose you're Bluetooth enabled from your jab as well, if you've bothered? So anyone who doesn’t want to have indefinite restrictions on our life is a vaccine krank now? Jeez Absolute madness we won’t be fully unlocking next Monday my dad is in hospital again I hope hes ok, I cant visit because this virus is still about but hey, never mind that , lets get the smoked salmon and champagne out and have some fun and games
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 16:06:30 GMT 1
So anyone who doesn’t want to have indefinite restrictions on our life is a vaccine krank now? Jeez Absolute madness we won’t be fully unlocking next Monday my dad is in hospital again I hope hes ok, I cant visit because this virus is still about but hey, never mind that , lets get the smoked salmon and champagne out and have some fun and games If you think this virus will ever be eradicated, then you must be very stupid And I’ll repeat what others have said in the past - it’s not always just about you. There’s 65 million others in this country effected by it
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Post by mattmw on Jun 14, 2021 17:04:45 GMT 1
The Independent have published some useful figures on the vaccine today which kind of shows the issues the Government is dealing with. Under 50's with first does 16-29: 29% 30-34: 66% 35-39: 75% 40-44: 86% 45-49: 84% Total population with 2 doses 16-29: 15% 30-34: 23% 35-39: 27% 40-44: 37% 45-49: 45% 50-54: 79% 55-59: 88% 60-64: 94% 65-69: 92% 70-74: 96% 75-79: 100% 80+: 93% So there is a big differece on over 50 age group - which is not far off being fully vaccinated, and the under 50's who are not yet at the 50% rate for the second dose, but do have a high proportion of people who have had at lease one vaccine. The vaccine programme is averaging around 300,000 vaccines a day so over the next 4 weeks a futher 8 million people should get their second jab, and the vast majority of those will be in the under 50 age group which isn't quite at the "herd immunity" level, but not far off. That would be a real step forward Under 50’s are seldom seriously effected by Covid. Average age of a Covid death is 81 I believe A sizeable amount wouldn’t even realise they’ve got it Its the threat of the virus mutating in the under 50s that is the main concern. Although cases of long Covid which keep people off work for 12 weeks or more have also started to emerge in the last 4 months too, so its not leaving the under 50s unscathed. The biggest threat to our vaccine programme is the emergance of a varient that makes the existing vaccines less effective, and the more people there are getting the virus the more chance there is of varients emerging. Getting around 90% of the population vaccinated twice as soon a possible really is the best way to really the best way to knock the virus on its head. If that takes a few weeks longer it obviously has an impact on the economcy, but a return of a new strain of the virus in the autumn is a situation the Government really wants to avoid
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 17:09:09 GMT 1
Under 50’s are seldom seriously effected by Covid. Average age of a Covid death is 81 I believe A sizeable amount wouldn’t even realise they’ve got it Its the threat of the virus mutating in the under 50s that is the main concern. Although cases of long Covid which keep people off work for 12 weeks or more have also started to emerge in the last 4 months too, so its not leaving the under 50s unscathed. The biggest threat to our vaccine programme is the emergance of a varient that makes the existing vaccines less effective, and the more people there are getting the virus the more chance there is of varients emerging. Getting around 90% of the population vaccinated twice as soon a possible really is the best way to really the best way to knock the virus on its head. If that takes a few weeks longer it obviously has an impact on the economcy, but a return of a new strain of the virus in the autumn is a situation the Government really wants to avoid Most would agree that an extension is necessary, but there again it would have been unnecessary if this incompetent administration had taken action IMMEDIATELY that the Indian variant became known.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 14, 2021 17:26:05 GMT 1
Under 50’s are seldom seriously effected by Covid. Average age of a Covid death is 81 I believe A sizeable amount wouldn’t even realise they’ve got it Its the threat of the virus mutating in the under 50s that is the main concern. Although cases of long Covid which keep people off work for 12 weeks or more have also started to emerge in the last 4 months too, so its not leaving the under 50s unscathed. The biggest threat to our vaccine programme is the emergance of a varient that makes the existing vaccines less effective, and the more people there are getting the virus the more chance there is of varients emerging. Getting around 90% of the population vaccinated twice as soon a possible really is the best way to really the best way to knock the virus on its head. If that takes a few weeks longer it obviously has an impact on the economcy, but a return of a new strain of the virus in the autumn is a situation the Government really wants to avoid As others are intimating, the worry shouldn’t be a variant cropping up here, but elsewhere in the world that are vaccinating far less than us With that logic, we either ban all foreign travel (Govt have already proved that cant/won’t do this), or we stay living locked down for years Quite why this isn’t down to personal responsibility now I don’t know
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Post by ssshrew on Jun 14, 2021 17:42:24 GMT 1
They did say that 21st June was not a definite date and so it has proved. There are a lot of middle aged people who have not had their second jab yet. It’s not too much to ask to take care until they have surely.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 14, 2021 17:52:24 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 14, 2021 18:05:40 GMT 1
They did say that 21st June was not a definite date and so it has proved. There are a lot of middle aged people who have not had their second jab yet. It’s not too much to ask to take care until they have surely. It's really not difficult at all, it's a few weeks. Most people can do everything aside from have an enormous wedding or go to a nightclub. I honestly don't understand the people who vocally hate lockdowns the most objecting to a few weeks of stabilizing in order to avoid another lockdown? Makes zero sense to me ...
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Post by mattmw on Jun 14, 2021 18:16:09 GMT 1
Its the threat of the virus mutating in the under 50s that is the main concern. Although cases of long Covid which keep people off work for 12 weeks or more have also started to emerge in the last 4 months too, so its not leaving the under 50s unscathed. The biggest threat to our vaccine programme is the emergance of a varient that makes the existing vaccines less effective, and the more people there are getting the virus the more chance there is of varients emerging. Getting around 90% of the population vaccinated twice as soon a possible really is the best way to really the best way to knock the virus on its head. If that takes a few weeks longer it obviously has an impact on the economcy, but a return of a new strain of the virus in the autumn is a situation the Government really wants to avoid As others are intimating, the worry shouldn’t be a variant cropping up here, but elsewhere in the world that are vaccinating far less than us With that logic, we either ban all foreign travel (Govt have already proved that cant/won’t do this), or we stay living locked down for years Quite why this isn’t down to personal responsibility now I don’t know Variants can crop up anywhere so I 100% agree that foreign travel should be looked at very closely in the coming weeks. With better checks on flights from India 6 weeks ago we’d probably be reopening next week fully Africa is likely to be the next continent Covid really takes hold so I’d be looking to the government to look very carefully at travel from there for the next few months The threat from mutations in the UK is very real, but we have the advantage that a lot of the expertise in detecting new variants is also in the UK so getting people to keep testing twice a week is really important. If a new variant emerges we can act more quickly to contain it through local public health teams
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jun 14, 2021 18:20:02 GMT 1
So that’s it, the PM confirms four-week delay to final easing of coronavirus restrictions in England, but is “confident” no delay beyond 19 July will be needed.
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