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Post by northwestman on Jun 12, 2021 9:26:04 GMT 1
I agree that the fact Michie is a member of the Communist Party seems of little relevance, though she has praised China's response to the pandemic on Twitter on 14th March 2020 as follows: 'China has a socialist, collective system (whatever criticisms people may have), not an individualistic, consumer oriented, profit driven society badly damaged by 20 years of failed neoliberal economic policies'. Here's her wiki page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_MichieHer fields are experimental psychology, clinical psychology, developmental psychology, health psychology. In other words, she's been involved in 'Project Fear'. Michie is mentioned in Laura Dodsworth's book 'A State of Fear', which explains how the UK Government has cynically weaponised fear during the covid 19 pandemic. Michie is not an epidemiologist.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jun 12, 2021 9:29:16 GMT 1
The Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) is understood to have warned the Government that a third wave of Covid cases could exceed the first wave peak if the June 21 reopening were to go ahead as planned. Well, that's that then. We all know that SAGE are spot on with their modelling, graphs and doom laden predictions. In fact, one member of SAGE, Susan Michie, wants social distancing and wearing face masks to stay forever. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672347/Social-distancing-stay-FOREVER-says-Communist-supporting-SAGE-Covid-scientist-Susan-Michie.htmlMr Johnson is understood to have decided a delay of up to four weeks – but no longer – is necessary to allow for more people to be double-jabbed before the final restrictions are eased. Does the (claimed) fact that this scientist is a communist have any bearing on the report or her expertise? I for one am glad to see the government taking this seriously at last and putting the good of the nation ahead of the squealing demands of those who want to throw the doors open and can’t possibly wait another minute. How seriously can a government claim to take it when the metaphorical door was held open to all passengers from India for weeks after we all saw the videos of them burning corpses in the street?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 9:47:25 GMT 1
Does the (claimed) fact that this scientist is a communist have any bearing on the report or her expertise? I for one am glad to see the government taking this seriously at last and putting the good of the nation ahead of the squealing demands of those who want to throw the doors open and can’t possibly wait another minute. How seriously can a government claim to take it when the metaphorical door was held open to all passengers from India for weeks after we all saw the videos of them burning corpses in the street? Fair point! 👍
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Post by welshshrew on Jun 12, 2021 10:29:11 GMT 1
Only this week have I really clocked onto the data about the inequity of vaccine take up. The difference between Powys and Shropshire looks big for example, but then compare Shropshire with Tower Hamlets or even LIverpool, and the difference is extraordinary and very sad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 10:39:55 GMT 1
Interesting (or maybe not) that hospitalisations are still lower than all of the models published by SAGE for their roadmap unveiling.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 12, 2021 10:46:25 GMT 1
It’s not surprising that numbers of cases are rising given the amount of testing, including surge testing in hotspots. The latest daily figures show over 900,000 tests carried out, so 8,500 cases is less than 1%.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 12, 2021 10:51:01 GMT 1
It’s not surprising that numbers of cases are rising given the amount of testing, including surge testing in hotspots. The latest daily figures show over 900,000 tests carried out, so 8,500 cases is less than 1%. And some of those will be false positives. Mind you, that could be counteracted by false negatives.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 12, 2021 10:52:57 GMT 1
It’s not surprising that numbers of cases are rising given the amount of testing, including surge testing in hotspots. The latest daily figures show over 900,000 tests carried out, so 8,500 cases is less than 1%. Meaningless stat. The only thing that matters is the number of cases and if they need hospital care and some suffer "long covid". If we had tested everyone in the country at the hight of the pandemic, there would only have been a tiny percentage positive, but in those days you had to be showing symptoms to get a test.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 12, 2021 10:57:05 GMT 1
Agree with you about hospitalisations, but even Donald Trump understood the fact that the more you test, the more you find. Nearly a million tests daily is quite a feat.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 12, 2021 15:33:40 GMT 1
Agree with you about hospitalisations, but even Donald Trump understood the fact that the more you test, the more you find. Nearly a million tests daily is quite a feat. its true, its the number that end up in hospital that counts , its makes no difference if they have been tested or not
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Post by northwestman on Jun 12, 2021 15:58:17 GMT 1
Every statement by a government official – from the Prime Minister and the Health Secretary on down – over the past month has given hope and assurance on the one hand only to contradict it with the other. (“Nothing in the data suggests that we need to delay lifting restrictions” but “growth of the new variant is cause for concern”, etc etc.) Presumably these self-cancelling non-judgements were specifically designed to cover all contingencies and, possibly more important, to create so much confusion that none of the obvious criticisms of proposed policies needed to be addressed.
The broadcast media have apparently been so befuddled by the avalanche of expert opinion mongers queueing up for their fifteen minutes of fame that they forgot to ask the most fundamental questions. For example, doesn’t the fact that the discrepancy between the number of cases and the number of deaths is becoming greater (cases rising, deaths falling) mean that the risk of serious illness from Covid has been enormously reduced? And therefore, shouldn’t the increase in cases of mild illness be seen as good news since large numbers of people will now become naturally immune to the virus through infection without becoming dangerously sick?
But there is a more disturbing interpretation of what may seem like outrageously unprofessional behaviour by the Government’s own advisors. Perhaps these boffins currently making themselves so enthusiastically available to the media were actually being encouraged by ministers who were happy for them to soften up public opinion for a delay in lifting restrictions. If that is the case – if this was really a cynical operation in which fear and resistance to a return to normal social conditions was being orchestrated yet again – then we are in the midst of a much more sinister political development than we knew.
The Government is not “following the science” so much as using the scientists in a mass mind-bending initiative which could preclude the need for legal enforcement (and therefore not require the permission of parliament) because it achieves its ends through psychological manipulation and moral coercion. Maybe this is all part of the plan – which is to maintain the most damaging lockdown restrictions like social distancing (whose very name makes clear how unnatural it is) for the foreseeable future without necessarily having to mobilise the police to enforce them.
But what if the Government succeeds in creating so much anxiety that people simply choose to comply (as 53% of the latest Yougov Poll suggests)? We shall have entered an era that the great dystopian novels anticipated, in which people do what they are told because it is what they believe they want.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 12, 2021 20:49:23 GMT 1
Every statement by a government official – from the Prime Minister and the Health Secretary on down – over the past month has given hope and assurance on the one hand only to contradict it with the other. (“Nothing in the data suggests that we need to delay lifting restrictions” but “growth of the new variant is cause for concern”, etc etc.) Presumably these self-cancelling non-judgements were specifically designed to cover all contingencies and, possibly more important, to create so much confusion that none of the obvious criticisms of proposed policies needed to be addressed. The broadcast media have apparently been so befuddled by the avalanche of expert opinion mongers queueing up for their fifteen minutes of fame that they forgot to ask the most fundamental questions. For example, doesn’t the fact that the discrepancy between the number of cases and the number of deaths is becoming greater (cases rising, deaths falling) mean that the risk of serious illness from Covid has been enormously reduced? And therefore, shouldn’t the increase in cases of mild illness be seen as good news since large numbers of people will now become naturally immune to the virus through infection without becoming dangerously sick? But there is a more disturbing interpretation of what may seem like outrageously unprofessional behaviour by the Government’s own advisors. Perhaps these boffins currently making themselves so enthusiastically available to the media were actually being encouraged by ministers who were happy for them to soften up public opinion for a delay in lifting restrictions. If that is the case – if this was really a cynical operation in which fear and resistance to a return to normal social conditions was being orchestrated yet again – then we are in the midst of a much more sinister political development than we knew. The Government is not “following the science” so much as using the scientists in a mass mind-bending initiative which could preclude the need for legal enforcement (and therefore not require the permission of parliament) because it achieves its ends through psychological manipulation and moral coercion. Maybe this is all part of the plan – which is to maintain the most damaging lockdown restrictions like social distancing (whose very name makes clear how unnatural it is) for the foreseeable future without necessarily having to mobilise the police to enforce them. But what if the Government succeeds in creating so much anxiety that people simply choose to comply (as 53% of the latest Yougov Poll suggests)? We shall have entered an era that the great dystopian novels anticipated, in which people do what they are told because it is what they believe they want. Daily Telegraph. Fascinating article, not least because it’s in the normally ultra loyal Telegraph. I can’t make my mind up whether the COVID communication is clevery choreographed to manipulate the public, or whether it’s completely unscripted free for all. As the article suggests, every epidemiologist in the country is throwing in the opinions, and having their 15 minutes of fame, and the more pessimistic their message, the more likely they are to get a hearing in the media.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 12, 2021 21:23:56 GMT 1
Fantastic speech from our former PM, Theresa. What a woman
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 12, 2021 22:29:57 GMT 1
Fantastic speech from our former PM, Theresa. What a woman What a dead loss she is. Useless Home Sectreary, useless PM, but still spouting.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 13, 2021 7:39:28 GMT 1
I see that we’re being drip-fed in he media, the possibility that there will be no more lifting of restrictions until the Spring! Is this a careful manipulation of expectations so that we’re meant to feel grateful when they announce a 4 week delay.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 8:40:19 GMT 1
Throughout the past 18 months, how many times has something been announced by the government that we haven’t already heard about and been expecting for at least a month?
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 13, 2021 8:42:13 GMT 1
I see that we’re being drip-fed in he media, the possibility that there will be no more lifting of restrictions until the Spring! Is this a careful manipulation of expectations so that we’re meant to feel grateful when they announce a 4 week delay. What is there you can't do now that you'd like to do on the 22nd that couldn't wait 4-8 weeks until everybody over 18 has been jabbed at least once?
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 13, 2021 8:48:59 GMT 1
Agree with you about hospitalisations, but even Donald Trump understood the fact that the more you test, the more you find. Nearly a million tests daily is quite a feat. its true, its the number that end up in hospital that counts , its makes no difference if they have been tested or not I'd add to that vaccinated hospitalisations. If you haven't had a jab and you're eligible I have very little sympathy. If there's 100 in hospital and 90 haven't been vaccinated but have been eligible then quite frankly for me there's 10 real cases and 90 idiots.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 8:51:04 GMT 1
I see that we’re being drip-fed in he media, the possibility that there will be no more lifting of restrictions until the Spring! Is this a careful manipulation of expectations so that we’re meant to feel grateful when they announce a 4 week delay. What is there you can't do now that you'd like to do on the 22nd that couldn't wait 4-8 weeks until everybody over 18 has been jabbed at least once? Weren't you saying something similar back in April when it was 'only a few weeks' until June? You are absolutely correct that generally we can do most things, as individuals the restrictions make life a bit more inconvenient at worse. For example, if I wanted to go and watch the football in a pub today then chances are I'd have to go round several pubs to find a seat, because most places will be booked up and I of course can't stand up. For that reason I'm just watching it at home, like I say it's not a major issue but for businesses it's a big issue. Then there's things like nightclubs who can't open (doesn't affect me, I'm too old!), and weddings being limited to number of guests.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2021 8:54:37 GMT 1
I see that we’re being drip-fed in he media, the possibility that there will be no more lifting of restrictions until the Spring! Is this a careful manipulation of expectations so that we’re meant to feel grateful when they announce a 4 week delay. I wouldn't be over confident that this will be the last delay either. Meantime, the Euros, Wimbledon, One Day Cricket Internationals, Open Golf, the British Grand Prix and many others will be obliged to operate in the open air with reduced crowds, whilst beaches and other tourist attractions remain very busy.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 13, 2021 9:10:49 GMT 1
‘Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.’
Benjamin Franklin.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 9:36:19 GMT 1
It will be interesting to see what the reaction to the delay is. I know social media isn't real life but I'm seeing a lot more anger from everyday folk compared to the conspiracy theorists from last year.
I think things like the Euro's and G7 won't help, people will see things like this happening and question whether it's 'one rule for them...'. On that subject it's almost comical seeing the delegates at G7 doing their photo ops with masks, social distancing & elbow bumps followed by photos from later in the day with none of that being followed.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 13, 2021 10:31:09 GMT 1
This take by the BMJ on the release of patients in to care homes in early 2020 pulls away from the pantomime he said/she said after Cummings pot-stirring in front of the selet committee an Hancock's expected form of response. The policy to shove people into care homes as an emergency measure could not have happened without clinicians and administrators actively pursuing it to increase capacity. This was - just as the DNR scandal - a straight ahead decision about who to save abnd who not to save. There were people who tried to push against it - care home operators and public health officials - but they were over-ruled. The introduction of the virus into care homes through their work practices were another channel that spread infection from care home to care home, once it had been introduced. Unfortunately, rather than this factor being considered in decision-making at outset it is now used as something to say, "it was the care homes' fault". www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1432
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 13, 2021 12:36:21 GMT 1
‘Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.’ Benjamin Franklin. Was he referring to a global pandemic? Context is everything.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 13, 2021 14:34:13 GMT 1
This take by the BMJ on the release of patients in to care homes in early 2020 pulls away from the pantomime he said/she said after Cummings pot-stirring in front of the selet committee an Hancock's expected form of response. The policy to shove people into care homes as an emergency measure could not have happened without clinicians and administrators actively pursuing it to increase capacity. This was - just as the DNR scandal - a straight ahead decision about who to save abnd who not to save. There were people who tried to push against it - care home operators and public health officials - but they were over-ruled. The introduction of the virus into care homes through their work practices were another channel that spread infection from care home to care home, once it had been introduced. Unfortunately, rather than this factor being considered in decision-making at outset it is now used as something to say, "it was the care homes' fault". www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1432 Many care homes refused and remained clear just needed strong management... Not excusing the policy just you can't over rule the owner some / many were weak and gave in under pressure but plenty didn't with staff not even going home for months to protect residents.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 13, 2021 21:17:05 GMT 1
This take by the BMJ on the release of patients in to care homes in early 2020 pulls away from the pantomime he said/she said after Cummings pot-stirring in front of the selet committee an Hancock's expected form of response. The policy to shove people into care homes as an emergency measure could not have happened without clinicians and administrators actively pursuing it to increase capacity. This was - just as the DNR scandal - a straight ahead decision about who to save abnd who not to save. There were people who tried to push against it - care home operators and public health officials - but they were over-ruled. The introduction of the virus into care homes through their work practices were another channel that spread infection from care home to care home, once it had been introduced. Unfortunately, rather than this factor being considered in decision-making at outset it is now used as something to say, "it was the care homes' fault". www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1432 Many care homes refused and remained clear just needed strong management... Not excusing the policy just you can't over rule the owner some / many were weak and gave in under pressure but plenty didn't with staff not even going home for months to protect residents. Power permeates every realtionship and interaction in this area. To dig in against something where it is being presented as there being no alternative is hard. In previous times the demands of the local NHS hospitla woul have come up hard against the views of the loal authority, who ran the care homes. That different institutional context could have provided more opportunity for push back.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 13, 2021 21:34:03 GMT 1
‘Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.’ Benjamin Franklin. Was he referring to a global pandemic? Context is everything. The context is a letter to the governer of Pennyslvania on behalf of the state assembly regarding the raising of taxes on the Penn family so that the assembly could purchase arms and ammunition for poor frontier families who were subject to Indian attack. I think that the governer was under the patronage of the Penn family, and was striking out bills passed by the assembly to raise this taxation. I think the phrase is referring to this patronage: that the governer owed his position to the Penn family, and as such was not his own man when it came to executing his duties as governer (e.g. to protect settlors under attack).
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jun 14, 2021 8:35:43 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57464097Most current coronavirus rules will remain in place for another four weeks after the planned 21 June unlocking, government sources have told the BBC. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is due to confirm the delay later at a news conference.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 10:07:33 GMT 1
So Boris is urging is to have 'one last heave for freedom', that sounds familiar. But what happens in 3 or 4 weeks when cases are still high or have gone even higher? As all these experts are predicting all sorts of scary numbers (again very familiar) then it's presumably reasonable to expect cases to be similar numbers, if not higher in 3 weeks time?
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Post by northwestman on Jun 14, 2021 10:19:35 GMT 1
Reports are coming in that Boris and Dowden will permit more outdoor seated spaces at sporting events as from June 21st.
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