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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 21:31:17 GMT 1
Of course they rushed it , the whole world needed it and was being held to ransom for it, all this whilst the moaners were chirping away about shortages of Ppe like new born birds in a nest waiting for a worm 😜
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 23, 2020 23:23:13 GMT 1
I've no qualms about the vaccines, they will all be subject to the usual protocols before approval and will be safe if they are approved.
Re a comment earlier, face masks are effective in preventing transmission, Prof Hennigen misunderstood the study from which he concluded they weren't.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Nov 23, 2020 23:37:30 GMT 1
There seems to be so much confusion, I think I'll sit back and wait until the dust settles.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 23, 2020 23:47:02 GMT 1
I've no qualms about the vaccines, they will all be subject to the usual protocols before approval and will be safe if they are approved. Re a comment earlier, face masks are effective in preventing transmission, Prof Hennigen misunderstood the study from which he concluded they weren't. I agree they are not covid proof but I think they certainly help massively for average people going about their normal daily business ,
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 24, 2020 9:13:49 GMT 1
i just caught the bbc news, the headlines, the oxford vaccinne works, the government have 100M on order and will be selling it all over the world, its easy to store and transport buy hey, lets moan about boris and his broadband, lets complain about a pint and a meal dear o dear very good news especially as it has proven to boost t cells with the elderly and is 90% effective with two injections. Not everyone will be happy... I Teach At Oxford, But I Don’t Want It To Win The Coronavirus Vaccine Race
Lecturer in gender and sexuality studies apparently. Say no more.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Nov 24, 2020 9:30:44 GMT 1
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 10:54:59 GMT 1
i dont understand the logic of that thinking at all.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 24, 2020 10:56:26 GMT 1
Obviously not thinking straight, imagine the alternative: The good old US of A rides in to save the world - The history books, the film, yuk. This one needs to be team GB, though the film will still make it the USA.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 11:01:31 GMT 1
i posted recently that i was expecting this with global arlines pushing for a covid passports ,it looks like you wont be traveling abroad without a vaccine ,i expect that countrys will adopt this rule as well.i dont know how this fits with the human rights act but i would not be suprised if companies dont expect employees to have the vaccine if they wont to work for the company. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55048438International air travellers will in future need to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available. In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward. "We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster." www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/11/24/ticket-money-passport-covid-passport-your-new-travel-list"Global airline lobby IATA is working on a mobile app that will help travelers demonstrate their coronavirus-free status, joining a push to introduce so-called Covid passports as vaccines for the disease near approval. The Travel Pass will display test results together with proof of inoculation, as well as listing national entry rules and details on the nearest labs, the International Air Transport Association said Monday. The app will also link to an electronic copy of the holder’s passport to prove their identity."
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 11:12:22 GMT 1
i saw a bbc interview with an advisor on the devlopment of the vaccine and another scientist,intially hte advisor only felt they had a 50-50 chance of devloping this vaccine as devloping ones for the lungs is extremely difficult, he also explained that with flue you reach 60% were one injection of the oxford vaccine gives you 70% and two injections gives you 90% which a very good result,other scientist said the big hurdle was persuading enough people to take up the vaccine and he put that firmly at hte goverments door for the way they had handled covid,especially the way they comunicated information which he felt had fulled a mistrust of the goverment and anything they promoted.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 24, 2020 12:04:46 GMT 1
i saw a bbc interview with an advisor on the devlopment of the vaccine and another scientist,intially hte advisor only felt they had a 50-50 chance of devloping this vaccine as devloping ones for the lungs is extremely difficult, he also explained that with flue you reach 60% were one injection of the oxford vaccine gives you 70% and two injections gives you 90% which a very good result,other scientist said the big hurdle was persuading enough people to take up the vaccine and he put that firmly at hte goverments door for the way they had handled covid,especially the way they comunicated information which he felt had fulled a mistrust of the goverment and anything they promoted. Surely people are intelligent enough to understand that this isn’t a government vaccine? In the case of the Pfizer vaccine the company boss has made it very clear that they didn’t take any government money because they didn’t want to be associated with either US political party. Perhaps the vaccine should be promoted by trusted people like David Attenborough, Marcus Rashford, Judi Dench or Konnie Huq.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 24, 2020 12:18:23 GMT 1
i saw a bbc interview with an advisor on the devlopment of the vaccine and another scientist,intially hte advisor only felt they had a 50-50 chance of devloping this vaccine as devloping ones for the lungs is extremely difficult, he also explained that with flue you reach 60% were one injection of the oxford vaccine gives you 70% and two injections gives you 90% which a very good result,other scientist said the big hurdle was persuading enough people to take up the vaccine and he put that firmly at hte goverments door for the way they had handled covid,especially the way they comunicated information which he felt had fulled a mistrust of the goverment and anything they promoted. Surely people are intelligent enough to understand that this isn’t a government vaccine? In the case of the Pfizer vaccine the company boss has made it very clear that they didn’t take any government money because they didn’t want to be associated with either US political party. Perhaps the vaccine should be promoted by trusted people like David Attenborough, Marcus Rashford, Judi Dench or Konnie Huq. Or the flaming Kardashians.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 24, 2020 12:23:30 GMT 1
Communities will not be consulted on which Covid tier they will be placed in – and will have no right of appeal.
The Government will set out a map on Thursday detailing which areas will go into each of the three new tiers of restrictions.
The process, which could decide the fate of some businesses, will be overseen by Health Secretary Matt Hancock and the chief medical officer Chris Whitty.
Downing Street said decisions would be based on five key factors – an analysis of cases across all age groups; the number of cases among those aged over 60; the rate at which local cases are increasing or falling; the number of positive tests per 100,000 people; and the 'current and projected' pressures on the local NHS. However, no economic factors will be taken into account in the decision.
And No 10 did not publish any benchmarks setting out what level of cases would correspond with each tier.
The system will be reviewed every 14 days to assess whether regions remain in the correct tier.
But, unlike the previous tier system, local communities will not be consulted on which restrictions should apply locally.
The decision follows a stand-off between ministers and the mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham last month over whether to place the region into Tier Three.
Downing Street confirmed that communities will have no right of appeal.
Daily Mail.
Hancock and Whitty having the final say as to which Tier we are in? Well, that's us and the rest of the Country stitched up like a kipper then. We'll be lucky to get away with being placed in Tier 2. Communities won't be consulted and have no right of appeal. No benchmarks setting out what level of cases would correspond with each Tier. No economic factors taken into consideration.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 24, 2020 12:24:18 GMT 1
i posted recently that i was expecting this with global arlines pushing for a covid passports ,it looks like you wont be traveling abroad without a vaccine ,i expect that countrys will adopt this rule as well.i dont know how this fits with the human rights act but i would not be suprised if companies dont expect employees to have the vaccine if they wont to work for the company. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55048438International air travellers will in future need to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available. In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward. "We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster." www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/11/24/ticket-money-passport-covid-passport-your-new-travel-list"Global airline lobby IATA is working on a mobile app that will help travelers demonstrate their coronavirus-free status, joining a push to introduce so-called Covid passports as vaccines for the disease near approval. The Travel Pass will display test results together with proof of inoculation, as well as listing national entry rules and details on the nearest labs, the International Air Transport Association said Monday. The app will also link to an electronic copy of the holder’s passport to prove their identity." Fits in with vaccine requirement precedents - having to have certain vaccines to visit certain places. Because people are wary of government and "big brother", I don't think any other insistance on being vaccinated will be initiated. Going to be busy anyway for months vacinating all those that voluntarily want it, and that should put a fair degree of reduction in r rate into place so that the virus is pretty much defeated.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 12:27:53 GMT 1
i saw a bbc interview with an advisor on the devlopment of the vaccine and another scientist,intially hte advisor only felt they had a 50-50 chance of devloping this vaccine as devloping ones for the lungs is extremely difficult, he also explained that with flue you reach 60% were one injection of the oxford vaccine gives you 70% and two injections gives you 90% which a very good result,other scientist said the big hurdle was persuading enough people to take up the vaccine and he put that firmly at hte goverments door for the way they had handled covid,especially the way they comunicated information which he felt had fulled a mistrust of the goverment and anything they promoted. Surely people are intelligent enough to understand that this isn’t a government vaccine? In the case of the Pfizer vaccine the company boss has made it very clear that they didn’t take any government money because they didn’t want to be associated with either US political party. Perhaps the vaccine should be promoted by trusted people like David Attenborough, Marcus Rashford, Judi Dench or Konnie Huq. you would hope they would but (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sons-of-david-icke-take-centre-stage-in-covid-conspiracy-movement-ttvvqqfvb) The sons of David Icke have become key figures in the anti-vaccination movement and built up a “conspiracy theory” video streaming service with hundreds of thousands of pounds in revenues.) www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30227-2/fulltext(A new report by the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) has lambasted social media companies for allowing the anti-vaccine movement to remain on their platforms. The report's authors noted that social media accounts held by so-called anti-vaxxers have increased their following by at least 7·8 million people since 2019.) i think your suggestion of having people who are viewd as trustworrthy help promote is a good idea, equally how many of them will give up there foreign holidays and trips to disney with out there vaccination passport.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 12:29:16 GMT 1
Communities will not be consulted on which Covid tier they will be placed in – and will have no right of appeal. The Government will set out a map on Thursday detailing which areas will go into each of the three new tiers of restrictions. The process, which could decide the fate of some businesses, will be overseen by Health Secretary Matt Hancock and the chief medical officer Chris Whitty. Downing Street said decisions would be based on five key factors – an analysis of cases across all age groups; the number of cases among those aged over 60; the rate at which local cases are increasing or falling; the number of positive tests per 100,000 people; and the 'current and projected' pressures on the local NHS. However, no economic factors will be taken into account in the decision. And No 10 did not publish any benchmarks setting out what level of cases would correspond with each tier. The system will be reviewed every 14 days to assess whether regions remain in the correct tier. But, unlike the previous tier system, local communities will not be consulted on which restrictions should apply locally. The decision follows a stand-off between ministers and the mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham last month over whether to place the region into Tier Three. Downing Street confirmed that communities will have no right of appeal. Daily Mail. Hancock and Whitty having the final say as to which Tier we are in? Well, that's us and the rest of the Country stitched up like a kipper then. We'll be lucky to get away with being placed in Tier 2. Communities won't be consulted and have no right of appeal. No benchmarks setting out what level of cases would correspond with each Tier. No economic factors taken into consideration. considering the mess they have made of evrything i am not optanmistic that they wont mess it up
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 12:36:21 GMT 1
i posted recently that i was expecting this with global arlines pushing for a covid passports ,it looks like you wont be traveling abroad without a vaccine ,i expect that countrys will adopt this rule as well.i dont know how this fits with the human rights act but i would not be suprised if companies dont expect employees to have the vaccine if they wont to work for the company. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55048438International air travellers will in future need to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available. In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward. "We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster." www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/11/24/ticket-money-passport-covid-passport-your-new-travel-list"Global airline lobby IATA is working on a mobile app that will help travelers demonstrate their coronavirus-free status, joining a push to introduce so-called Covid passports as vaccines for the disease near approval. The Travel Pass will display test results together with proof of inoculation, as well as listing national entry rules and details on the nearest labs, the International Air Transport Association said Monday. The app will also link to an electronic copy of the holder’s passport to prove their identity." Fits in with vaccine requirement precedents - having to have certain vaccines to visit certain places. Because people are wary of government and "big brother", I don't think any other insistance on being vaccinated will be initiated. Going to be busy anyway for months vacinating all those that voluntarily want it, and that should put a fair degree of reduction in r rate into place so that the virus is pretty much defeated. depending on the uptake it does give us some hope but i dont think the virus will be defeated as i dont know what % but with up to a third will not have the vaccine and whilst it may seem appealing to bring in a law to make it compulsorey i think that would be counter productive and just feed the conspierecy theroirsts . www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/one-third-uk-may-not-get-coronavirus-vaccine-one-developed-new/
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Post by northwestman on Nov 24, 2020 12:46:07 GMT 1
Tier 1 areas will be like finding a canary in a coal mine. However, if you are stuck in a Tier 2 area, the guidelines do allow travel between Tier 2 and Tier 1 areas. If you are placed in Tier 3, you'll probably be trapped until Easter.
I have no doubt that Drakeford will be in the process of setting up his own rule book to keep the English out of Wales.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 24, 2020 12:48:35 GMT 1
Bit of a reach isn't it? As a fully paid up, lefty, liberal, snowflake remainer I'm really pleased with this for two reasons (aside from the obvious: "It's a vaccine that seems to work, is cheap and easy to store and therefore could also be a game changer in the developing world as well as here" and yes, a bit of patriotic pride that it's been developed here in the UK too); - it could be a really good way to rehabilitate Britain in the eyes of the international community and be a new basis for trade discussions. - there's a concerning anti intellectual trend in this country at the moment so it's good to see one of our best higher education facilities doing something like this (yes I know it's their research arm but I still think it's a win for the sector as a whole)
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 24, 2020 12:58:52 GMT 1
Bit of a reach isn't it? As a fully paid up, lefty, liberal, snowflake remainer I'm really pleased with this for two reasons (aside from the obvious: "It's a vaccine that seems to work, is cheap and easy to store and therefore could also be a game changer in the developing world as well as here" and yes, a bit of patriotic pride that it's been developed here in the UK too); - it could be a really good way to rehabilitate Britain in the eyes of the international community and be a new basis for trade discussions. - there's a concerning anti intellectual trend in this country at the moment so it's good to see one of our best higher education facilities doing something like this (yes I know it's their research arm but I still think it's a win for the sector as a whole) Gender politics in our prestige universities is poisonous and very confusing for those of us who think that there are men and women and some of them are gay. Apparently there are dozens of sexes. Say the wrong thing and your career can be ruined by bullying and no platforming.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 24, 2020 14:44:23 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 24, 2020 14:54:57 GMT 1
It's still pretty grim but steadily improving. Hopeful for December as the 7 day average seems to be dropping by about 20 a day at the moment.
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Post by davycrockett on Nov 24, 2020 14:56:08 GMT 1
Tier 1 areas will be like finding a canary in a coal mine. However, if you are stuck in a Tier 2 area, the guidelines do allow travel between Tier 2 and Tier 1 areas. If you are placed in Tier 3, you'll probably be trapped until Easter. I have no doubt that Drakeford will be in the process of setting up his own rule book to keep the English out of Wales. You can travel between areas but only do what your allowed to do in the postcode area you live I think? Makes no sense to encourage people from higher risk area (2) travel to lower risk so the can go to the pub for example....or football match come to that. I don't know the rules but if you can travel to get out of restrictions in your area its doomed to fail
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Post by armchairfan on Nov 24, 2020 15:01:43 GMT 1
i posted recently that i was expecting this with global arlines pushing for a covid passports ,it looks like you wont be traveling abroad without a vaccine ,i expect that countrys will adopt this rule as well.i dont know how this fits with the human rights act but i would not be suprised if companies dont expect employees to have the vaccine if they wont to work for the company. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55048438International air travellers will in future need to p prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available. In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward. "We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster." www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/11/24/ticket-money-passport-covid-passport-your-new-travel-list"Global airline lobby IATA is working on a mobile app that will help travelers demonstrate their coronavirus-free status, joining a push to introduce so-called Covid passports as vaccines for the disease near approval. The Travel Pass will display test results together with proof of inoculation, as well as listing national entry rules and details on the nearest labs, the International Air Transport Association said Monday. The app will also link to an electronic copy of the holder’s passport to prove their identity." I take your point entirely, but why stop at airlines and international travel? .... in principle, the same arguments could be advanced in support of a requirement for travel regulation between different tiers WITHIN the UK, as was the case, for different reasons, within the Soviet Union; after all, the logic would be undeniable, wouldn't it? As an optimist, I don't believe for one moment that such restrictions could be implemented, but.....
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 16:30:46 GMT 1
i posted recently that i was expecting this with global arlines pushing for a covid passports ,it looks like you wont be traveling abroad without a vaccine ,i expect that countrys will adopt this rule as well.i dont know how this fits with the human rights act but i would not be suprised if companies dont expect employees to have the vaccine if they wont to work for the company. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55048438International air travellers will in future need to p prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available. In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward. "We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster." www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/11/24/ticket-money-passport-covid-passport-your-new-travel-list"Global airline lobby IATA is working on a mobile app that will help travelers demonstrate their coronavirus-free status, joining a push to introduce so-called Covid passports as vaccines for the disease near approval. The Travel Pass will display test results together with proof of inoculation, as well as listing national entry rules and details on the nearest labs, the International Air Transport Association said Monday. The app will also link to an electronic copy of the holder’s passport to prove their identity." I take your point entirely, but why stop at airlines and international travel? .... in principle, the same arguments could be advanced in support of a requirement for travel regulation between different tiers WITHIN the UK, as was the case, for different reasons, within the Soviet Union; after all, the logic would be undeniable, wouldn't it? As an optimist, I don't believe for one moment that such restrictions could be implemented, but..... airlines are on there knees i would think there business model of getting bums back on seats who know they are safe to travel will be a big factor, how far it will expand to who knows(just to be clear i dont agree with compelling any one to have the vaccine) i would think in the uk human rights lawers would be linning up to fight cases if bosses tried to bring such a requirment in.
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Post by armchairfan on Nov 24, 2020 17:11:53 GMT 1
I take your point entirely, but why stop at airlines and international travel? .... in principle, the same arguments could be advanced in support of a requirement for travel regulation between different tiers WITHIN the UK, as was the case, for different reasons, within the Soviet Union; after all, the logic would be undeniable, wouldn't it? As an optimist, I don't believe for one moment that such restrictions could be implemented, but..... airlines are on there knees i would think there business model of getting bums back on seats who know they are safe to travel will be a big factor, how far it will expand to who knows(just to be clear i dont agree with compelling any one to have the vaccine) i would think in the uk human rights lawers would be linning up to fight cases if bosses tried to bring such a requirment in. That would be my hope to, hence "optimist" 🤞🤞👍
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 24, 2020 17:22:08 GMT 1
Bit of a reach isn't it? As a fully paid up, lefty, liberal, snowflake remainer I'm really pleased with this for two reasons (aside from the obvious: "It's a vaccine that seems to work, is cheap and easy to store and therefore could also be a game changer in the developing world as well as here" and yes, a bit of patriotic pride that it's been developed here in the UK too); - it could be a really good way to rehabilitate Britain in the eyes of the international community and be a new basis for trade discussions. - there's a concerning anti intellectual trend in this country at the moment so it's good to see one of our best higher education facilities doing something like this (yes I know it's their research arm but I still think it's a win for the sector as a whole) That's the big thing here isn't it, that with the shipping and storage needed it looks as thought this is something that can help a great many throughout the world and hopefully get things back on an even keel. Fingers crossed anyhow.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 24, 2020 18:22:09 GMT 1
Fortunately it's not going to be part of tonight's Christmas relaxation announcment, by Gove, that you HAVE to have your in-laws round for Christmss - just that you can if you really want to. They might be best to shield themselves though eh?
Hope the rail companies have cottoned on that this year it's best to do the annual "essential engineering work" in normal working time, rather than over the few days of rule relaxation over Christmas
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Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 24, 2020 18:34:41 GMT 1
Fortunately it's not going to be part of tonight's Christmas relaxation announcment, by Gove, that you HAVE to have your in-laws round for Christmss - just that you can if you really want to. They might be best to shield themselves though eh? Hope the rail companies have cottoned on that this year it's best to do the annual "essential engineering work" in normal working time, rather than over the few days of rule relaxation over Christmas you would think that with such a reduction in passenger numbers they have done some engineering work, even now they are at this level www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53919518"Rail passenger numbers are now back to about one third of pre-pandemic levels. time,"
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Post by armchairfan on Nov 24, 2020 19:05:55 GMT 1
Fortunately it's not going to be part of tonight's Christmas relaxation announcment, by Gove, that you HAVE to have your in-laws round for Christmss - just that you can if you really want to. They might be best to shield themselves though eh? Hope the rail companies have cottoned on that this year it's best to do the annual "essential engineering work" in normal working time, rather than over the few days of rule relaxation over Christmas The rail companies don't carry out engineering work, essential or otherwise - Network Rail does.
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