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Post by venceremos on Jun 23, 2019 19:48:04 GMT 1
What is it then, if you’re so sure you know what it isn’t? You’re passing judgment on people expressing a view of this when you (presumably) don’t know what happened either. You’re not coming across too well yourself. I'm just going on what the police reported about the incident... Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police action.
So what do you take from that? And how would you come to any other conclusion that it was nothing more than a row between the two? The neighbors don't come out of this well at all, it is clear this is politically motivated. And I think there are people making more out of this than it warrants. People fight, people have rows with heir partners. Its what people do. But it does not mean they are out of the ordinary. I don't understand why some would wish to judge someone for having a row with their partner. But that is where we are. And until we learn something that shows it was more than a row then that's how I will see it. Maybe the tape will tell us more. “People” aren’t trying to become national leaders. Would you not hold a person in that office to a higher standard? As I said elsewhere, “no cause for police action” is very common following reports of possible domestic abuse. That shouldn’t be used as a stick with which to beat those reporting it, or those other neighbours here who were equally concerned. How do you know it was politically motivated? You’re assuming it was because the neighbours aren’t Tories. Where does that logic lead us, to neighbours only being able to report something if they share the same political views? All you’re doing is taking everything the Johnson camp and its slavish press followers and chums have said at face value.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2019 19:50:07 GMT 1
I just think its important to post this once as it seems to have got lost in all the noise... At 00.24 on Friday 21 June, police responded to a call from a local resident in [south London]. The caller was concerned for the welfare of a female neighbour. Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police action.I would hope that the police would have acted is required to do so. It seems they did not see a need to do so. The neighbors knew this and yet still made the decision to report the incident to the press. That is why questions are being asked about how this has been handled. And that's why the couple were very sensible to make a note of the CAD number, times, and the registration numbers and photographs of the police cars who attended. Because initially the police denied all knowledge of attending such an incident to the Guardian, only to be forced to backtrack when they were presented with further evidence. I find this to be very worrying. www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/22/scotland-yard-press-operation-faces-questions-over-boris-johnson-row
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Post by venceremos on Jun 23, 2019 19:53:15 GMT 1
Right, so its win win now isn't it. So if we have Symonds coming out and explaining that it was nothing more than a row then no doubt we'll have some coming out with "she would say that, that can happen within an abusive relationship". It means that come what may, people can freely accuse him of something safe in knowledge they can turn to such information as you have linked to here. And I am sure they will. It really is going to get nasty from here on in... You seem to be forgetting that he, Johnson, started it! He’s an arrogant, entitled individual who seems to think he’s above ordinary concerns, as evidenced by the numbers of parking tickets he’s said to routinely collect and ignore. He chose to be in the full glare of the public and he chose to make himself answerable to the public. You might feel sorry for him, I’m not wasting any sympathy.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 23, 2019 19:57:07 GMT 1
I just think its important to post this once as it seems to have got lost in all the noise... At 00.24 on Friday 21 June, police responded to a call from a local resident in [south London]. The caller was concerned for the welfare of a female neighbour. Police attended and spoke to all occupants of the address, who were all safe and well. There were no offences or concerns apparent to the officers and there was no cause for police action.I would hope that the police would have acted is required to do so. It seems they did not see a need to do so. The neighbors knew this and yet still made the decision to report the incident to the press. That is why questions are being asked about how this has been handled. Read what those with experience of domestic abuse tell us. Incidents are routinely dismissed, often because the perpetrator reassures the police and the victim is unable to speak up. You can take the police report at face value if you will. I recall overhearing a police officer leaving the flats where I lived and saying into his radio “just a domestic”. I’d heard the “row” and it wasn’t something to be so lightly dismissed. Yeah, I guess this is how this is going to played out now. If he is abusing someone then I hope he gets everything that is coming to him. But I think at this moment in time, with what we know, that's some reach...
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 23, 2019 19:59:25 GMT 1
I genuinely had a dream last night in which Johnson won the Tory leadership and went to the Palace to tell HM that he was intending to form a government upon which she said, "no, I've had enough of lying, incompetent politicians whose ambition exceeds their ability and I'm dissolving Parliament."
She went on to appoint a committee of citizens with acceptable moral and ethical standards to govern until Brexit was sorted and allow time for the political system to be revised so as to be fit for purpose.
My dream ended there, but I imagine that if it had continued I'd have seen the population dancing for joy in the streets.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 20:03:08 GMT 1
Right, so its win win now isn't it. So if we have Symonds coming out and explaining that it was nothing more than a row then no doubt we'll have some coming out with "she would say that, that can happen within an abusive relationship". It means that come what may, people can freely accuse him of something safe in knowledge they can turn to such information as you have linked to here. And I am sure they will. It really is going to get nasty from here on in... You really aren't getting this are you. I'm not suggesting anything, but I can see why some people might. Survivors of domestic abuse for example, people who have witnessed domestic abuse. And finally, what I said was, maybe Johnson might need to clarify what went on and not stoke fires by dodging questions.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 23, 2019 20:04:00 GMT 1
Right, so its win win now isn't it. So if we have Symonds coming out and explaining that it was nothing more than a row then no doubt we'll have some coming out with "she would say that, that can happen within an abusive relationship". It means that come what may, people can freely accuse him of something safe in knowledge they can turn to such information as you have linked to here. And I am sure they will. It really is going to get nasty from here on in... You seem to be forgetting that he, Johnson, started it! He’s an arrogant, entitled individual who seems to think he’s above ordinary concerns, as evidenced by the numbers of parking tickets he’s said to routinely collect and ignore. He chose to be in the full glare of the public and he chose to make himself answerable to the public. You might feel sorry for him, I’m not wasting any sympathy. He is, yes. I have no issue with people going after him for being the arse that he is at times. But this just seems to be taking things to an altogether different level. It's ugly this; we know what is happening here, we know what the neighbors are up to, what line they are trying to push and we know that many out there will grab it with both hands and run with it (knowing full well that they can always fall on the arguments we have pointed to as to why they accusations can not be lightly dismissed). I said someplace else on B&A that I think things are now going to crank up to a whole new level when it comes to how politics is going to be played out these next few months. I don't think this is something to be welcomed.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 23, 2019 20:12:37 GMT 1
Right, so its win win now isn't it. So if we have Symonds coming out and explaining that it was nothing more than a row then no doubt we'll have some coming out with "she would say that, that can happen within an abusive relationship". It means that come what may, people can freely accuse him of something safe in knowledge they can turn to such information as you have linked to here. And I am sure they will. It really is going to get nasty from here on in... You really aren't getting this are you. I'm not suggesting anything, but I can see why some people might. Survivors of domestic abuse for example, people who have witnessed domestic abuse. And finally, what I said was, maybe Johnson might need to clarify what went on and not stoke fires by dodging questions. I know exactly what you are getting at. I'm just also voicing my own opinion. I'm not saying you said that, you pretty much stated that in your post. But that doesn't mean others aren't going to do so. And I totally agree with you regarding Johnson and the way he has handled it. He should have just come out and addressed it head on from the off. Not to do so leaves others to use their imaginations. And some people have big imaginations. I'm really not that arsed whether Johnson gets the leadership or not. But what we are seeing here with this and his girlfriend, with what we know, with the clear bias and motives of his neighbors...just doesn't sit right. I'm not an apologist for anyone, this isn't because it happens to Johnson in the limelight, I'd be saying the same for any politician.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2019 20:13:55 GMT 1
It gets worse. If Boris gets the PM job, Liz Truss is apparently earmarked to be the next Chancellor of the Exchequer!
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Post by salop27 on Jun 23, 2019 20:35:09 GMT 1
Couple of quick points. The story about Vince Cable you've linked is no way comparable to Johnson and secondly what is Boris being found out about? He had a heated argument with his partner! Makes him normal I'd say. There’s nothing normal in having the police called to a “heated argument”. Even Johnson apologists like you should have the decency not to try to normalise that. There is if your neighbours hate you and your politics. There's two people in a contest to become pm and I'm backing Johnson. What's wrong with that? He'll do a better job then Hunt could ever do. He has his issues but thats the same for a lot of politicians.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2019 22:45:49 GMT 1
Too much time is being wasted on his personal life when the real issues are his incompetence in public office and his continued volt face. These alone are grounds for him being unsuitable to fill the role of PM.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 23, 2019 23:58:55 GMT 1
There’s nothing normal in having the police called to a “heated argument”. Even Johnson apologists like you should have the decency not to try to normalise that. There is if your neighbours hate you and your politics. There's two people in a contest to become pm and I'm backing Johnson. What's wrong with that? He'll do a better job then Hunt could ever do. He has his issues but thats the same for a lot of politicians. Yeah well, good luck with that. Leaving aside Johnson’s messy private life (making him a potential security risk, say some of the Hunt camp), he’s a proven liar, so how do you know which of his many faces you’d be getting? I notice he’s already watering down the 31 October departure rhetoric. He’ll let you down, sooner or later. But then there’s Hunt, the man who did so much damage to the NHS. I’ve just watched the video of him talking about the factory in Kidderminster he just visited - makes steel wheels, employs 350, big market share in Europe, profit margin 4%. Hunt says no deal would mean a 10% tariff on its export price that would wipe out the business but, here’s the ripper, he’d be prepared to do that. So, you have the unenviable task of deciding which of these chumps you want to lead your appalling party. The tragedy of it is you’ll be dumping him on the rest of us as our next PM. What an unbelievable shambles. Three wasted years and many more to come.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 24, 2019 7:51:51 GMT 1
Were the neighbours right to call the police to the incident?
Yes. If two people are arguing or fighting so loudly that it raises concerns about the safety of one of them, then of course you should do something to protect them. Surely no-one would disagree with that.
Were they right to go to the press?
Possibly not. However if it hadn't been reported and it later came out that Johnson had hurt his partner and the police had missed the chance to do something or the country had not had the oportunity to scutinise his character a bit deeper then that would have been wrong too.
Does it matter that the neighbours were 'lefties'?
Of course not. There may have been an element of malice in the reporting to the press, but certainly not to the police.
How many crimes or potential crimes go unreported every day? How many women and children are beaten, bullied or abused by their partners, parents or others every day? How many of those die every year as a direct or indirect result of that abuse? I know that if it was a member of my family going through anything like that I would want their neighbours to call to the police.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 8:32:55 GMT 1
Typically dishonest misrepresentation from you. My clear point - which you're wilfully missing - was that just because something happens 'every night of the week' doesn't mean it should be ignored or dismissed. It's there in amber and blue. The things that you list can not be and should not be ignored or dismissed. A 'blazing row' however, isn't anywhere on a par with those things you list. It was a awful comparison to make in response to someone who simply stated the blazing rows happen most weekends, they are a part of a pretty normal and healthy relationship. The comparison you made was completely inappropriate. Where's your distinction between 'a blazing row' and a woman screaming 'get off me' with items being smashed? Not sure on you Stutty but when I have an argument I don't use physical intimidation and smash items. Pretty thin line between a casual healthy row and an abusive dust up. Then again your primary issue throughout this thread has been the recording of it by members of the public who should somehow be barred from doing this because of political leanings. I wouldn't give a s**t whether they're libertarian, fascist, anarchist, communist if I thought real abuse was occurring next door to me I'd call the police and ensure that the necessary evidence was captured should it be that audible that it could be recorded through a phone. As for passing this on to a newspaper well. The man involved wants to hold the high office of the land. It'd be a story if it cropped up in a few years that Boris Johnson may have committed domestic abuse and its a story now. The couple passed the recording knowing full well the barclay/murdoch/Dacre axis would surge into every aspect of their lives. I'm sure it wasn't a choice made easily for a few minutes of fame as some have suggested.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 24, 2019 9:12:20 GMT 1
It's there in amber and blue. The things that you list can not be and should not be ignored or dismissed. A 'blazing row' however, isn't anywhere on a par with those things you list. It was a awful comparison to make in response to someone who simply stated the blazing rows happen most weekends, they are a part of a pretty normal and healthy relationship. The comparison you made was completely inappropriate. Where's your distinction between 'a blazing row' and a woman screaming 'get off me' with items being smashed? Not sure on you Stutty but when I have an argument I don't use physical intimidation and smash items. Pretty thin line between a casual healthy row and an abusive dust up. Then again your primary issue throughout this thread has been the recording of it by members of the public who should somehow be barred from doing this because of political leanings. I wouldn't give a s**t whether they're libertarian, fascist, anarchist, communist if I thought real abuse was occurring next door to me I'd call the police and ensure that the necessary evidence was captured should it be that audible that it could be recorded through a phone. As for passing this on to a newspaper well. The man involved wants to hold the high office of the land. It'd be a story if it cropped up in a few years that Boris Johnson may have committed domestic abuse and its a story now. The couple passed the recording knowing full well the barclay/murdoch/Dacre axis would surge into every aspect of their lives. I'm sure it wasn't a choice made easily for a few minutes of fame as some have suggested. Who is to say that physical intimidation was used? Why should we assume that? You don't think it is plausible that Johnson maybe reached out for his laptop and Symonds came out with that. Or perhaps Johnson made an effort to console Symonds and she came out with that, perhaps an arm around the shoulder that she wasn't interested in. Perhaps it was Symonds smashing up things? Why does it mean that its an "abusive" dust up? Thing is, we just don't know. What we do know however, is that after the police visited the property they made it clear that no one was harmed and no one was in any danger. Johnson was allowed to remain and I gather as Symonds didn't request the police to remove him, she was happy with that too. So whilst I would most certainly be concerned for Symonds if she was suffering domestic abuse, I'm not getting that at the moment (and based on what we do know, you need to reach a fair bit to do so). Maybe more will come out, maybe we'll get to hear the recording, maybe Johnson or Symonds will get around to telling is what happened. But currently, as I see it, we really don't know the full picture at all. And sure, I do question why the neighbors saw the need to report this to the police considering they were informed that no one in the property was harmed or in harms way. Its pretty clear that they are no fans of Johnson and from what you read there seems to be some concerted effort to force the couple out of the house and out of the area. So I think we ought to take that into consideration. I don't think they should be barred from doing so, I just question their motives. They stated that their sole concern was that of safety of Symonds, well I don't believe that considering they then went to press after being informed by the police that Symonds was safe and well. Its politically motivated for sure. If you have no issue with that then fine but I think we know what this is about and where its heading; I mean you talk about this already with physical intimidation, smash items, domestic abuse, abusive dust up. I think its pretty clear what the intention is here (and to portray him as such without us really having the full story). Just politics today I guess but I just find it pretty ugly...
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Post by northwestman on Jun 24, 2019 10:05:04 GMT 1
Boris's team has been working overtime. A clearly staged photo shoot of '2 people in love'. Even the Mail readers recognize it for what it is! 'Seen together' in the Sussex countryside! "An onlooker said: 'They looked really relaxed and happy in each other's company. They sat there for ages chatting and holding hands. They didn't seem bothered by anyone or anything else'". Mills and Boon would be embarrassed to release such tripe. A very convenient onlooker is prepared to make a comment to the press, who just happen to have been there taking photos. What an insult to the intelligence. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7174061/Boris-Carrie-seen-time-police-row.html#comments
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Post by northwestman on Jun 24, 2019 10:18:15 GMT 1
Pub can't have been too impressed. They 'sat there for ages chatting and holding hands' apparently without either food or drink in front of them. Come on, if you are going to stage a photo shoot it's little things like that that need to be thought about.
'They didn't seem bothered by anyone or anything else'. Hardly surprising as it would be difficult to get too near with the length of that grass. Not the best of publicity for the pub.
And if it's not a pub garden, then it's just a table and chairs dumped in a field or a private house short of a gardener.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jun 24, 2019 10:36:35 GMT 1
I see all of a sudden *unt is the good guy after years of being abused by all and sundry for his tenure as Health Secretary...HAHAHAHA...........Hypocrites
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Post by venceremos on Jun 24, 2019 11:52:43 GMT 1
Boris's team has been working overtime. A clearly staged photo shoot of '2 people in love'. Even the Mail readers recognize it for what it is! 'Seen together' in the Sussex countryside! "An onlooker said: 'They looked really relaxed and happy in each other's company. They sat there for ages chatting and holding hands. They didn't seem bothered by anyone or anything else'". Mills and Boon would be embarrassed to release such tripe. A very convenient onlooker is prepared to make a comment to the press, who just happen to have been there taking photos. What an insult to the intelligence. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7174061/Boris-Carrie-seen-time-police-row.html#commentsWhat sort of person watches a couple in the countryside, then tells the press all about it? I think the onlooker should be named and shamed. Obviously a Tory brexiteer set up ……
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 12:29:35 GMT 1
Boris's team has been working overtime. A clearly staged photo shoot of '2 people in love'. Even the Mail readers recognize it for what it is! 'Seen together' in the Sussex countryside! "An onlooker said: 'They looked really relaxed and happy in each other's company. They sat there for ages chatting and holding hands. They didn't seem bothered by anyone or anything else'". Mills and Boon would be embarrassed to release such tripe. A very convenient onlooker is prepared to make a comment to the press, who just happen to have been there taking photos. What an insult to the intelligence. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7174061/Boris-Carrie-seen-time-police-row.html#commentsWhat sort of person watches a couple in the countryside, then tells the press all about it? I think the onlooker should be named and shamed. Obviously a Tory brexiteer set up …… My monies on Mad Nad , now she really is a grade 1 Loon. She is a massive Boris supporter and , I know this is stretching the imagination a bit far , is trying for a Cabinet post . I’d put her in the Cabinet , but I make sure the doors were secured with a f.ckin great lock . Diane Abbott’s fair game for some but she’s not in the same league as Truss and Dorries . Let’s be honest , looking at the current crop of MP’s in the House from all parties , we’re f.cked good and proper .
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Post by venceremos on Jun 24, 2019 12:32:38 GMT 1
Genuine question - has anyone ever heard Liz Truss make an intelligent comment? I can't take her seriously for a second.
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Jun 24, 2019 12:33:52 GMT 1
I see all of a sudden *unt is the good guy after years of being abused by all and sundry for his tenure as Health Secretary...HAHAHAHA...........Hypocrites Don't think anyone's saying anything remotely approaching that........HAHAHAHA Was this post meant for your spiritual home of BullsBanter btw?
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Post by venceremos on Jun 24, 2019 12:45:09 GMT 1
Daniel Kawczynski has just been royally skewered by Emma Barnett on 5Live over the Gatt24 free trade possibility that Johnson's been touting and that Liam Fox dismissed as incorrect yesterday.
Danny's line of argument was basically that he's sure Boris and his advisers are right because they'll have looked at it carefully. So Danny has confirmed on national radio that he believes we can leave without a deal on 31 October and continue to enjoy free trade with the EU. Might be worth remembering that, Shrewsbury voters.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jun 24, 2019 13:50:35 GMT 1
I see all of a sudden *unt is the good guy after years of being abused by all and sundry for his tenure as Health Secretary...HAHAHAHA...........Hypocrites Don't think anyone's saying anything remotely approaching that........HAHAHAHA Was this post meant for your spiritual home of BullsBanter btw? Keep up, my "spiritual" home is the Bucks Head, they sell CHIPS
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 15:32:03 GMT 1
Daniel Kawczynski has just been royally skewered by Emma Barnett on 5Live over the Gatt24 free trade possibility that Johnson's been touting and that Liam Fox dismissed as incorrect yesterday. Danny's line of argument was basically that he's sure Boris and his advisers are right because they'll have looked at it carefully. So Danny has confirmed on national radio that he believes we can leave without a deal on 31 October and continue to enjoy free trade with the EU. Might be worth remembering that, Shrewsbury voters. Remember it ? Bloody hell its so good it should be painted on the side of a bus.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 24, 2019 16:46:24 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 24, 2019 16:52:44 GMT 1
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Post by mattmw on Jun 24, 2019 16:59:13 GMT 1
Genuine question - has anyone ever heard Liz Truss make an intelligent comment? I can't take her seriously for a second. She did once have an affair with Mark Field which ended up in him splitting up with his wife. So might be quite fun if they both got jobs in Johnson's cabinet
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Post by northwestman on Jun 24, 2019 17:18:36 GMT 1
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 24, 2019 17:44:28 GMT 1
But anyway, back to the leadership contest and let’s not overlook that Johnson’s colleague, Liam Fox, said this morning that Johnson isn’t being honest when he claims we can leave with no deal and remain tariff-free. Both are Tories, both are brexiteers and they’re saying radically different things. If 17.4m voted for the same thing, was it Johnson’s version of the truth or Fox’s? Looking forward to one of our brexit bright sparks clarifying this for everyone ..... Funnily enough none of them have commented yet and answered, how typical
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