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Post by ssshrew on Feb 6, 2019 11:49:22 GMT 1
I asked for a steak and ale pie tonight and got a balti. I blame Waterfall.
Back three for me is Williams, Waterfall and Beckles.
Waterfall is slow, but if he has quicker players either side of him, he's sound as a pound. I thought you blamed Mr Whitfield for everything!!! You’re getting selective now!!
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Post by stfcfan87 on Feb 6, 2019 11:52:55 GMT 1
When I go into work on a Monday morning the opinion of everyone else is based on what they've heard. You wouldn't talk about it on the radio because you won't have heard it to counter it because you were at the game. I do take the point about being paid for opinions. I just preferred it when it someone who understood football a bit more. Well, we can give our opinions on the radio because they have an hour after the Saturday game just for that. He’s been critical of our defending recently - who hasn’t?  Maybe he’s singled out Waterfall too often - so have a lot of people (and I disagree with that).  He’s just doing his job and I much prefer his approach rather than a bland, no opinions alternative. Totally agree. I don't know where these people are coming from. Especially tbh, Mark Elliott hasn't been saying anything different to what I've been saying, or indeed different to what lots of other fans say. In fact the salopcast podcast, this week was way harsher about said players and tbh has been on that several times, although not this week! And what did Elliott say last night that was so bad? He said beckles made the mistake for the 3rd goal but Waterfall didn't have the quickest of reactions to deal with it after - is this wrong???
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Feb 6, 2019 12:26:46 GMT 1
Well, we can give our opinions on the radio because they have an hour after the Saturday game just for that. He’s been critical of our defending recently - who hasn’t? Maybe he’s singled out Waterfall too often - so have a lot of people (and I disagree with that). He’s just doing his job and I much prefer his approach rather than a bland, no opinions alternative. Totally agree. I don't know where these people are coming from. Especially tbh, Mark Elliott hasn't been saying anything different to what I've been saying, or indeed different to what lots of other fans say. In fact the salopcast podcast, this week was way harsher about said players and tbh has been on that several times, although not this week! And what did Elliott say last night that was so bad? He said beckles made the mistake for the 3rd goal but Waterfall didn't have the quickest of reactions to deal with it after - is this wrong??? I thought we were rightly harsh on the pod following Luton and Bradford. It was a shambles of a week. I listened to RS after Bradford and also though ME got it spot on. One think i have learned from doing fanzines and Podcasts on this club is this. There is a section of our fanbase that will not and never will want to here ANYTHING negative about the club, players manger or chairman. So Mark will get grief off them for sure.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 6, 2019 13:01:00 GMT 1
Back to topic. Waterfall must not play for us again. I have seen tankers turn quicker. He does a job when up front with his headers but is an accident waiting to happen in defence. I take no pleasure in these comments but feel he is costing us too many goals. But Sadler is fine yeah? Waterfall is younger and should be persisted with, he just needs some pace alongside him. He defends with his heart on his sleeve, is gritty and scores a few the other end too. He's fine for a League One side not challenging near the top.
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Post by roberto02afcct on Feb 6, 2019 14:26:22 GMT 1
I thought waterfall was decent tonight, personally I’d leave Sadler out and try the new guy I’d drop them both and go with Beckles and anyone else really...Whalley would probably do a better job as a CB at the minute overal
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 6, 2019 14:45:53 GMT 1
i dont know what the answer is but as it stands the defence are error prone and costing us vital points so something has to change.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Feb 6, 2019 16:04:51 GMT 1
Serious thought should be given to converting Mr holloway to centre half.
Excellent in the air, good feet for a defender and decent pace
just a thought...
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Post by neilsalop on Feb 6, 2019 16:17:45 GMT 1
The first Wolves goal: possibly a poor header back to the corner taker and then given far too much time to pick a cross, great touch from Boly and an even better finish from Doherty.
Que the Wolves fans coming out with all the old Welsh abuse. Quite sad really as parts of Liverpool are just as close as to the border as Shrewsbury is, but you never hear them being called sheep botherers. Wierd.
Second Wolves goal: just poor from Arnold. Dithered, came too late and should have punched. Good stooping header from Doherty, that guy must really hate us.
Third: Beckles should have hoofed it, but instead tried to out fo x Traore and got caught, yes it could have been given as a foul, but with someone of that quality why risk anything? The ball got back to Doherty (I'm really starting to dislike that bloke) and he got the ball into Cavaleiro. When you've got a £7million forward against Waterfall sooner or later they're going to get something.
So yeah, a couple of mistakes, a little bit of bad luck or judgement, playing what is currently the 7th best team in the country away, I thought that we matched them for most of the two games and their extra quality and guile got them past us, but I for one have no complaints
Personally I think we need to decide on a formation and put the players together that can play in that formation. I like the look of a 3-5-2 with Beckles LCB, the new guy Williams RCB and either Waterfall or Sadler in the middle. Haynes LWB, Bolton or Gilliead RWB. Docherty, Grant and probably Norburn, possibly Edwards across the midfield and Okenabirhie and Payne up front. That would leave us with likes of Whalley, Smith, Amadi Holloway to come off the bench.
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Post by BlueAndAmber50 on Feb 6, 2019 16:18:15 GMT 1
Serious thought should be given to converting Mr holloway to centre half. Excellent in the air, good feet for a defender and decent pace just a thought... As stupid as it sounds would probably suit him in a back 3 - he’s very strong , good in the air and has a good touch Can he defend ??
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Post by northwestman on Feb 6, 2019 16:45:56 GMT 1
Serious thought should be given to converting Mr holloway to centre half. Excellent in the air, good feet for a defender and decent pace just a thought... As stupid as it sounds would probably suit him in a back 3 - he’s very strong , good in the air and has a good touch Can he defend ?? I have said exactly the same thing on an earlier thread. Plus Holloway has had some experience of playing in defence earlier in his career.
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Post by blueboy62 on Feb 6, 2019 17:01:24 GMT 1
Serious thought should be given to converting Mr holloway to centre half. Excellent in the air, good feet for a defender and decent pace just a thought... As stupid as it sounds would probably suit him in a back 3 - he’s very strong , good in the air and has a good touch Can he defend ?? Has played CB at previous club(s) according to his cv. Sounds a good call to me and worth a try. He might solve a problem there but he is part of the problem up front and not likely to play much now.
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Post by BlueAndAmber50 on Feb 6, 2019 17:03:20 GMT 1
As stupid as it sounds would probably suit him in a back 3 - he’s very strong , good in the air and has a good touch Can he defend ?? I have said exactly the same thing on an earlier thread. Plus Holloway has had some experience of playing in defence earlier in his career. Well let’s be honest - he’s probably not gonna do a worse job than Sadler has recently (sorry team Sadler) and Holloway isn’t going to get many opportunities upfront now
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Post by northwestman on Feb 6, 2019 17:06:28 GMT 1
Well, Spink was converted to CH after being useless up front. It can be done!
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Feb 6, 2019 17:15:06 GMT 1
Back to topic. Waterfall must not play for us again. I have seen tankers turn quicker. He does a job when up front with his headers but is an accident waiting to happen in defence. I take no pleasure in these comments but feel he is costing us too many goals. But Sadler is fine yeah? Waterfall is younger and should be persisted with, he just needs some pace alongside him. He defends with his heart on his sleeve, is gritty and scores a few the other end too. He's fine for a League One side not challenging near the top. OP's thread not about Sadler!
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Post by Mortgagehound on Feb 6, 2019 18:14:10 GMT 1
Well, Spink was converted to CH after being useless up front. It can be done! wrong way round old chap
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Post by northwestman on Feb 6, 2019 19:50:16 GMT 1
Well, Spink was converted to CH after being useless up front. It can be done! wrong way round old chap Whoops! Memory banks failing. I remember Gary Stevens playing both roles. Which way round was he?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 6, 2019 20:48:33 GMT 1
I think I respect lots of different views I disagree with if I respect both the reasoning and the motive behind it.
I don't respect Mark Elliott on either count.
I probably chose the wrong example to go public on that, but I'm just fed up of him.
There's a huge difference to a podcast by fans with different views downloaded by fans, and a public service broadcaster.
Just like I'm much more careful in my newspaper article than I would be on here.
I genuinely think Elliot is trying to stir things up to generate interest in his own show. And I don't think he had an credentials to be an expert opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 23:03:13 GMT 1
Holloway as a Centre half, really? then again I've seen his goals to game ratio perhaps that is what he things he's been doing all this time.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 6, 2019 23:10:05 GMT 1
Holloway as a Centre half, really? then again I've seen his goals to game ratio perhaps that is what he things he's been doing all this time. Holloway is a converted centre half
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 23:15:56 GMT 1
wrong way round old chap Whoops! Memory banks failing. I remember Gary Stevens playing both roles. Which way round was he? Both Spink and Stevens came to us as strikers and ended up as centre halves. I wouldn't describe Deano as useless up front but 1991/92 was not his finest hour.
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Post by waltonshrew on Feb 6, 2019 23:21:58 GMT 1
I believe Dean Spink scored 20 goals in the 1993/94 promotion season and was in the Division 3 team of the year. I was there for a lot of matches that season and he was far from useless. Very enjoyable watching him and the excellent Wayne Clarke
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 23:26:04 GMT 1
Deano came to us as a striker, was pretty poor and was converted into a central defender by John Bond. He reverted to striker in the championship winning season of 93/94 and banged in around 20, getting a hat trick at Wigan. I'm sure he ended up reverting back to defence a year or two later.
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Post by waltonshrew on Feb 6, 2019 23:28:31 GMT 1
That is my exact recollection as well. It was painful how John Bond treated him early on a striker. Was repeatedly knocking him. Was a different player under Fred Davies
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 7, 2019 8:06:27 GMT 1
Rickets has to try something different ,what that something is i have no idea but it cant be any worse than what is happening in our error prone defence at the moment. if he does try something i hope fans will give it and the player a chance.
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Post by another fine mess on Feb 7, 2019 10:37:42 GMT 1
I don’t like to single out players but neither Waterfall or Sadler justify selection just now. If you dropped just one, it might be Sadler because Waterfall offers more at attacking set-pieces. But why not give Williams and Beccles a go. How can they do worse?
As for Mark Elliot, I like him. I think he makes intelligent observations. I don’t think he’s egotistical, I think he bangs on out of frustration. I’d be interested to hear which of his views people take issue with. And I’d rather hear a critical voice summarising than a fan with a microphone because when I listen to the radio coverage, I want to know what’s actually happening.
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Post by philjh on Feb 7, 2019 11:06:32 GMT 1
Saw a video yesterday with Williams in it , he looked quite solid, one game was England under 21s or under 19s not sure v Brazil and not a lot went past him.
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Post by criftins on Feb 7, 2019 11:09:26 GMT 1
I don’t like to single out players but neither Waterfall or Sadler justify selection just now. If you dropped just one, it might be Sadler because Waterfall offers more at attacking set-pieces. But why not give Williams and Beccles a go. How can they do worse? As for Mark Elliot, I like him. I think he makes intelligent observations. I don’t think he’s egotistical, I think he bangs on out of frustration. I’d be interested to hear which of his views people take issue with. And I’d rather hear a critical voice summarising than a fan with a microphone because when I listen to the radio coverage, I want to know what’s actually happening. Sorry but Beckles is a liability and has been since the middle of last season, his body language is terrible looks completely dis interested all the time and gets caught out of position regularly. Yes we can’t carry on with Sadler and Waterfall so for me it’s three from Williams Waterfall and Bolton. As for Mark Elliot for me he likes the sound of his own voice too much and takes every opportunity to criticise the team the manger and the board, bring back Steve Cross legend
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Post by Exkeeper on Feb 7, 2019 11:10:31 GMT 1
I thought waterfall was decent tonight, personally I’d leave Sadler out and try the new guy I’d drop them both and go with Beckles and anyone else really...Whalley would probably do a better job as a CB at the minute overal Beckles costs us more goals than Waterfall and doesn’t contribute at the other end. An Accy fan told me when he signed that he made too many mistake, as with Wolves winner.. Mr Elliot overlooks this and hammers Waterfall.
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Post by northwestman on Feb 7, 2019 11:22:21 GMT 1
Yes, Beckles has been very poor all season, both at LB and CH.
I keep hoping that some improvement is forthcoming, but it hasn't been and it's over half a season now.
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Post by northwestman on Feb 7, 2019 11:24:21 GMT 1
If Holloway started off as a CB at his earlier Clubs, he's got to be worth consideration surely?
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